deejov

Just wanted to intro myself. This wonderful site was referred to me by a friend on TAM (Talk about Marriage). As you can guess, my marriage fell apart, and it took a long time for "me" to realise that my husband's alcohol use was much deeper than I had known.

I will say that I am known as a co-dependent personality. The fixer. I've been working on myself for the past year. I've grown used to the word "boundaries" and my sense of self worth is waaaay better than it ever was. I'm facing my demons, and feeling pretty good about my future. I credit my work on self-awareness, and establishing my own values, identity, and beliefs.

I have a grown son that lives on his own. We have no children together.
Married for 5 years. We are both 43. We both work full time, I have always been the higher earner, higher achiever.

I always "knew" my husband drank a lot. He had a DUI when he was 24, lost a few jobs, cleaned himself up. He always referenced that his drinking was "nothing' compared to what it used to be years ago. (The first big lie).

Since we have been married, his drinking has gone in 6 week cycles, with weekend binges that included no contact \ no response. We separated for awhile due to this.

To make a long story short... I'm not certain he even knows why he drinks, but I do know he doesn't have a good handle on how to deal with the stress of life without it.

He has tried to quit drinking a few times. Refuses AA, tried that years ago. Didn't like the religion aspect. It sticks for awhile, he believes he has it under control, but sooner or later he slides back into a pattern that I recognize immediately.

I'm sure this is all too familiar to many of you here, the details are just personal after that.

I'm looking for support, understanding, familiarity with basically the whole "watching your spouse fall to pieces in denial".

When it gets to that point, and you KNOW deep down that they aren't even capable of being a partner to you, WHY WHY WHY do you stay?

We live as civil room-mates. Meaning separate bedrooms, bank accounts, the only thing we share is the mortgage, legally. It's like watching a slow motion train wreck. His health is horrible. I don't know even KNOW if it's withdrawl symptons? Anxiety attacks, insommnia, forgetfullness, zero sex drive, job after job (it's always because his boss is an a$$) friends dont' talk to him anymore... he just marches on denying he has a problem.

I have been to Al-Anon. I am careful not to enable him in anyway. Unfortunatley, his mother will go behind my back and give him money. So I"m the only one that is asking him to accountable for his actions. Doesn't work so well.

At this point, where we have NO relationship, why hide it? Who cares?
I don't understand this point.

It's the little games that make me lose respect. "Oh, x called me at 5 at the last minute, asked me to go for a beer". According to your phone... you texted 5 different people between 1 and 3, asking anyone to go for a beer. Then you called me at 330 and said you were on your way home from work.

I don't understand the lying about it. I don't care if he drinks or not, at this point. It's not my life. If he gets fired or loses his license, it's not up to me to bail him out. We live like room-mates.

All I wanted was the truth. Who he really is. Flaws and all.
Is that even possible????

jacrazz

Welcome to SR Dee...I'm new here and have found it to be my source of comfort. Although I'm new I will say what has helped me was to educate myself about Alcoholism and read the stickies. The vets on here will also give you everything you need to hear!

Fathom

Hugs, Deejov.

Welcome to SR! I second jacrazz's advice to start reading the stickies at the top of of the list of threads and to learn more about alcoholism, particularly the effect it has on you. Do you have a sponsor in AlAnon? It seems like you might benefit from some more work on Step 1 -I admitted I was powerless over alcohol. Really understanding this about my powerlessness over alcohol helped me to focus my attention on where I DO have power in my life. I have power over me and my life decisions. I have power over my expectations and my attitudes. I have the power over my own behaviors and reactions to situations.

Here's some questions for you to consider (I'm not expecting an answer)... You've been with this man for at least 5 years, so I'm guessing you know him pretty well. Given your experience with him in the past, what do you think was a reasonable expectation of his behavior? What insight did you gain from checking his phone, that you didn't already know? Did this help you feel more calm or gain any clarity? Would you have checked your roommate's phone? Or, even a good friend?

The primary advice I can give you is to try to put your focus back on yourself and do the things that will make your life more manageable.

Peace,
Fathom

atalose

Welcome,

Yes read the stickies and learn as much as you can about the disease of alcoholism.

I think the answer to that question can be answered with:

That's many of us!! until we learn more and change our own way of thinking. I am no longer with someone who is not capable of being a mutual loving partner. When we know better we do better.

BoxinRotz

The truth is... As long as he's active in his alcoholism, you will never get the truth! He is incapable of the simplest things. His life is falling apart. He has his enabler a.k.a. Mom. His friends aren't around anymore but he can make something up in his head that makes himself feel good about it, or at least be able to sleep with himself over it.

He's in his own world Dee. He's going to keep it that way until it sucks so bad that being sober looks good. You will not get him there and I believe you know it. So where does that leave you in this, other than being his room mate?

Welcome to SR!

thislonelygirl

.*
It's the little games that make me lose respect. "Oh, x called me at 5 at the last minute, asked me to go for a beer". According to your phone... you texted 5 different people between 1 and 3, asking anyone to go for a beer. Then you called me at 330 and said you were on your way home from work
^
My ah did the same before. Actually in the same situation and in others. Too many to list but a good example similiar was that my ah told me a friend called him and invited him out to drink. Turns out it was tge other way around.
He only wanted it to be soneone ekses decision...fault...etc.
Blame and denial

He has tried to quit drinking a few times. Refuses AA, tried that years ago. Didn't like the religion aspect. It sticks for awhile, he believes he has it under control, but sooner or later he slides back into a pattern that I recognize immediately.*

^
It took me awhile to realize that refusal to go to aa or any other programs for that matter was just that. An excuse because anyone who REALLY wants help doesnt make any. They take it where they can get it but to want it you have to NEED it.
He didn't need help. Atleast in his head... he still needed to drink more than he needed aa.

thislonelygirl

I don't understand the lying about it. I don't care if he drinks or not, at this point. It's not my life. If he gets fired or loses his license, it's not up to me to bail him out. We live like room-mates.*All I wanted was the truth. Who he really is. Flaws and all.*Is that even possible????



Honestly. ..
With an alcoholic. Yes.
Imo this disease or whatever you want to call it lies. Period.

pinkdog

Hi deejov, welcome. You came to a great place. All those things you mentioned could be from the alcohol. I don't know why us alcoholics have to lie about it. I guess we are ashamed. Believe me, we all lie about the drinking, even to ourselves sometimes. Stick around here for some great advice. Welcome.

deejov

Thanks, Fathom.
I have been reading the stickies and a LOT of other posts most of the morning, very good stuff, and I'm shocked at the "same same" of a great deal of it.

Checking his phone was something I haven't done in about 8 months... it was the first time I realised he was lying about it, and I assume he is still lying frequently about his drinking.

I do not check anymore. I never "say" anything. He sometimes tells the truth, meaning he admits he went for lunch \drinks, but it was always only 1, never the six pack I can read in his posture.

I do realise I have no control over it. I am truly no longer concerned that he quits drinking. I no longer consider him to be my marital partner. it's not my problem. I've told him this , to his face.

Back in Dec 2012, my grown son almost died, medical issues. I left to go live with my son for a few months until he was on his own feet again. When I came back home , it was with the intent to put the house up for sale and just move on.

He ASKED ME to give him a few months to try and stop drinking again, and get himself in a better position financially. Said he couldn't handle all of it at once.

I choose to feel hurt that he lies to me about it. I'm not threatening to divorce him if he doesn't quit, or holding any aspect of a relationship to the fire. I'm just done. He knows this. I'm very much detached.
For the past 6 months... I don't ask where he is going, make plans with him. or tell him MY plans. We talk about superficial things... how was your day at work, and that is IT.

A few months ago, I even told him that if drinking is what makes him happy.... go do it. Let's hurry up and sell the house. You can take your share and go rent a room somewhere, no responsibilities, maybe not even work for awhile. Go be free to just be yourself and stop hiding it. Whatever you want, it's your life. I'm not ASKING him to do anything, except be truthful. Either way, I'm gone.

He says that is NOT what we wants to do with his life, he wants "more".
He is supposed to be working on a better job, saving some money so we can go ahead with a divorce. He's been stalling. Not going in either direction.

Yes, I have no control over that.

I know the bottom line is I just need to get out.

He has choices.
1) Move out. Go rent a room somewhere. I'll take over the mortgage
2) Increase his income so he can assume the mortgage
3) Sell the house and we both go our separate ways

He claims that because he has a drinking problem, he's not able to focus on any option. But yet he won't do anything about it, like just choose option 1.

I dont' know how else to explain that I could care LESS if he drinks or not.
I know that sounds harsh. If he is happy, who am I to judge that it's right or wrong? It would just simply be wrong, for me, to stay with him. It's not what I want in life. He's free to make his own path in life. I have mine.

I"m not naive enough to think that we could have a fairy tale life if ONLY he quit drinking. There are issues beneath it all that make us not a good enough match. I'm not willing to settle for less than what I want.

Fathom

Dee,

Now you know he's a liar. It was difficult for me to accept that about my XAH, that he would do anything to protect his ability to drink. There was seemingly no ethical dilemma in his mind when it came to that. When I came to accept that, it helped me not to expect truthful ethical behavior from him. It hurt. It sucked. But it's better to face situations with eyes wide open.

Now, what do YOU want from the situation? You get a choice in the matter too. Do you want to take over the mortgage, and you can afford it? Then, make tracks to make that happen. If that's not what you want, then work on putting the house up for sale. He has the option then of buying out your half or letting someone else come along and buy it. That's his decision, but it has a time limit. And, that time limit is based on what works for you (i.e. soon!). Talking to a lawyer about all this can be very helpful and enlightening.

Best,
Fathom

honeypig

These 3 things are HUGE for you--you have a good start already!

1) I think the realization of the "same same" is a really big deal in that you start to see that that is what A's do and that it has not a damn thing to do w/YOU. It is not your fault and you cannot control or cure it any more than any of the 875 OTHER people whose posts you read could! So this is a big score for you to see this and get it.

2) You realize that the drinking is a symptom, and that if he put down the bottle, there would still be a crapload of work to be done. Again, this is a BIG score for you.

3) You aren't willing to settle for less than you want. GREAT! You know it's your life and you'll get what you settle for. Presumably that also means you are willing to do whatever is necessary to make that happen.

I'd like to suggest Alanon as an additional source of support and information. Many of us here use both SR and Alanon for the different strong points of each. You can google Alanon and use the meeting finder on their site to locate a meeting near you. You can also search within this forum to find discussion about Alanon and what people feel it has (or hasn't) done for them.

Welcome to SR! It sounds like you're on the right track, and as you learn more, you'll start to see more and more clearly what you want and need to do to get where you want to be.

deejov

Thanks, Fathom. I am starting to see things a little differently, reading here.

Victim status secured, once I leave him. Good excuse to go get drunk, if your room-mate wife leaves you and you have to default on the mortgage.

We have both gone to see a lawyer. Both said best move was to sell the house. I earn triple what he does. He has no money to buy me out. I can't buy him out either. It's a large equity sum. We bought really cheap, and fixed it up. Meh. It was a big mistake, now. Seemed like a good way to make some money. But you have to sell it to see the money! I don't know why he is hanging onto it. It's across the city from where he works. Makes no sense to me.

I've been doing okay with just minding my own life. I'm getting tired of having a room-mate instead of a partner. I'm wanting to get on with life, have a real relationship. Somedays I think I should just do that. Regardless of where I live, or the fact that I am still legally married. It's just semantics. Paperwork.

That is what bothers me the most. Wondering how long he is going to pretend things are just fine? Forever? That's okay with me, if you are single. But when you are holding someone else's life hostage, let them go. BE fair.

deejov

Thanks, honeypig. From a compassion point of view,it's helpful for me to read that the same same stuff is the alcohol. It's been a blur. I hate looking at him and thinking such negative things. He's a human being, suffering, just like the rest of us. We all have our demons.

The difference is some face them, and some don't. It's not my job (anymore) to fix people, but that' doesn't mean I can't show compassion and understanding. We all do our best, the way we are able to. He's not a monster. He has a problem.

honeypig

That's right--HE has a problem. That he chooses not to address.

And as you seem to be realizing, it doesn't have to be YOUR problem. Just be careful to not let it become an excuse for him...

Again, I think you have a pretty good handle on some things already and I hope being here at SR can help you as you move forward.

deejov

Honeypig, the excuse thing came up very early on. I knew him,. and his family, for almost 10 yrs before we dated. I used to work with his mom, we stayed friends. HIm and I used to hike together a few times a year, hang out occasionally. We weren't close friends, but I knew a lot about him through his mom.

Excuses. He had ALL acute lymphatic leukemia from age 3 to 15, final remission after 3 episodes. He was \ is the golden child. Got whatever he wanted. Sheltered. He finished high school at age 20 because he missed two years of school growing up. From his family, it sounds like he partied alot, and waited to get sick again and die. He didn't.
I know his mom didn't teach him some things she should have. No one expected him to still be alive. They covered up for him. That was his excuse 10 yrs ago. When we started being friends, I said "no way". You don't get a free pass because you had cancer.

I've had type 1 diabetes for 25 yrs. I didn't get a free pass. Suck it up. It's not too late to learn. You should appreciate being alive, and make the most of your life.

He really just took it underground, and boy he did a good job of making me think he was "all that and a bag of chips". But just like HE says... beer gives him courage.

He is learning, a bit. Mostly through things I'm suggesting. More to do with job stress, and handling difficult people. Because I do a lot of it at work. He's not a reader, but he will listen to audio books.

He moved a few inches, and then got stuck.

I know he has some difficulties with my son. He's now a type 1 d too, he almost died at xmas when he was dx. He looks at my son, 22 yrs old, bought his own house, lives alone, and has type 1. Super independent. I battle with him sometimes... I worry. type 1 can be a devil that kicks you in the butt. But there he is, doing it all on his own. He's as stubborn as me

H never had a good male role model, his family is littered with severe alcoholics, and I'm telling him " no excuses". I'm sure that is what attracted him to me in the beginning, but now it's the ocean that keeps up apart.
Does that make any sense??

SurvivingAgain

I always considered myself a compassionate person and would do what I could to help out in difficult situations, probably the reason why my AH spent 13 years trying to fight his demons only for them to get much, much worse. He is now at the point where he doesn't want any help even though he is barely clinging onto life.
After a very difficult year I decided compassion in my life was there for all those close to me who wanted it, not necessarily those who needed it.
1. Myself, I will not beat myself up over what has happened and what could have been-I will take each day as it comes and deal with it the best I can.
2. My parents, my father has terminal cancer and probably only a few weeks to live, my mother is trying to cope with him at home - I will be there for them and for whatever they need.
3. My daughter who is getting married this year, I will do everything I can to make sure that her day is the best it can be.
I don't have to try to push uphill, I can still be compassionate.

marie1960

"All I wanted was the truth. Who he really is. Flaws and all.
Is that even possible????" (Deejov)

^^^^^^^^^^

I think you know exactly who he is.

I am sorry to hear of your current living situation, it certainly is not fair to you.

Glad you found us and are here, you will find amazing support here.

FeelingGreat

Hi DJ - speaking as a former alcoholic I know the hardest thing of all is to tell the truth, even when you've accepted what you are. Just getting the words out of your mouth is a huge effort. That's why doctors multiply by 2 when patients tell them how much they drink.

dandylion

Dear dee, If it is time for you to move on (and, it sounds like it is)---then it is up to you to make it happen. That doesn't mean that you have to do it without compassion. Don't get compassion and subtle enabling confused in your mind. I say this because often compassion gets translated into the actions of enabling.

Perhaps something in the fog is holding you back. F-fear O-obligation G-guilt.

It is tempting to think about going on to another relationship while still married--to get your genuine intimate needs satisfied (not just talking about sex, here). My advice is not to do it. That just leads to another, yet unknown, kettle of worms. What man with
their head screwed on right wants to get involved with a woman who is still married (cause she is still in the fog).

dee, I am not trying to be too harsh or critical--though I probably sound like it---I just want to give you something more to think about.

You have done great, so far, in my opinion.

dandylion

deejov

Fog or Failure.
I am afraid of both.

I don't want to be a whiner. I want to be a winner.
So I gave myself a few days of pity. And some wonderful people patiently listened to me. I'm soooo grateful, truly.

I am slowly getting more ready to do what I need to do.
Here's today's gruesome thought... "do I want to be around for another xmas season?"
Oooooh Nooooo I do NOT!!

dandylion, you are right on track with your suggestions. Anything else would be going against my own values, and then I'm just sinking to his level.

I struggle with enabling and compassion. I've been working on that for awhile. Might still have to draw the line a little darker

I can't really fathom how MUCH this site has opened my eyes, in ways I didn't realise.

Of course, I am lingering with the thoughts of... "do A's really get sober and become productive people?" I know the answer is YES, of course they do.

But I know the answer is that in my house it is not a question I should ask. It's not for me ponder. I'm not able to effectively keep my true self, and get lost in "helping".
That's where I feel the failure.