Can we talk about love ?
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Join Date: Sep 2013
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Can we talk about love ?
I've been thinking loads and loads about what love actually is. My biggest "excuse" for staying in this relationship (even as I acknowledge more and more reasons not to every day) is because I "love" my A.
I can't imagine not being old with him (the reality being if it keeps progressing old won't be how I imagine it if he even makes it to old)
He makes me laugh (so does a good comedy movie)
He makes me feel wanted. needed and cherished (there is still some of this in our relationship but not nearly as much as there used to be and it gets less all the time, sometimes I feel like it is a chore to him)
We have similar views on lots of things (this is true but I don't really think its a marker for love)
We have long interesting conversations which make me think and make me laugh(these days they are less often and shorter as they are accompanied by beer)
We are physically affectionate together, I mean hugs and kisses as much as anything else, and it feels "right" (this is still true but again less and less often as he is more and more drunk or hungover)
So if my reason for staying is love, when you take away needy,codie,fear of abandonment stuff, what actually is love ?
Does anyone have a good definition ?
I can't imagine not being old with him (the reality being if it keeps progressing old won't be how I imagine it if he even makes it to old)
He makes me laugh (so does a good comedy movie)
He makes me feel wanted. needed and cherished (there is still some of this in our relationship but not nearly as much as there used to be and it gets less all the time, sometimes I feel like it is a chore to him)
We have similar views on lots of things (this is true but I don't really think its a marker for love)
We have long interesting conversations which make me think and make me laugh(these days they are less often and shorter as they are accompanied by beer)
We are physically affectionate together, I mean hugs and kisses as much as anything else, and it feels "right" (this is still true but again less and less often as he is more and more drunk or hungover)
So if my reason for staying is love, when you take away needy,codie,fear of abandonment stuff, what actually is love ?
Does anyone have a good definition ?
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 368
I think people have been looking for the answer to that for as long as love has existed.
Aside from the brain chemistry, I think love is a combination of all the things you have mentioned. Codie stuff is only a problem when it becomes one - if you know what I mean? The desire to support and cherish someone is healthy and natural. It's only unhealthy when it is to the detriment of one of the people. Fear of abandonment is normal as no-one wants to lose someone they care deeply for. It becomes a problem when it is the only thing holding you with a person.
I suppose what I am saying is that, for me, love is a healthy desire to cherish and protect a person. A desire to be around that person and a genuine enjoyment of that person's company. The degree to which these balance out determines whether that love is healthy or not. So if you take all of these away, there is no love. What is needed is a balance. That's just my take on it.
The question I ask is 'is love enough'...? When a person is not reliably returning love in a way that can be appreciated, if a person is becoming dangerous to be around or is draining more emotional resources than they are giving back, then is love enough?
The correct answer is supposed to be 'no'. However I am still learning that the hard way myself. Maybe one day I will be able to feel what my head tells me.
Aside from the brain chemistry, I think love is a combination of all the things you have mentioned. Codie stuff is only a problem when it becomes one - if you know what I mean? The desire to support and cherish someone is healthy and natural. It's only unhealthy when it is to the detriment of one of the people. Fear of abandonment is normal as no-one wants to lose someone they care deeply for. It becomes a problem when it is the only thing holding you with a person.
I suppose what I am saying is that, for me, love is a healthy desire to cherish and protect a person. A desire to be around that person and a genuine enjoyment of that person's company. The degree to which these balance out determines whether that love is healthy or not. So if you take all of these away, there is no love. What is needed is a balance. That's just my take on it.
The question I ask is 'is love enough'...? When a person is not reliably returning love in a way that can be appreciated, if a person is becoming dangerous to be around or is draining more emotional resources than they are giving back, then is love enough?
The correct answer is supposed to be 'no'. However I am still learning that the hard way myself. Maybe one day I will be able to feel what my head tells me.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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jessicajoe---I have tried for years to come up with the "perfect" definition. I have fallen short---but, this same question has stumped poets and song writers and philosophers, also.
This much I DO know. It doesn't hurt. And love, alone, is not enough to conquer addiction.
dandylion
**I'll bet that Hammer will have an answer for this!!!!!!!!!!!
dandylion
This much I DO know. It doesn't hurt. And love, alone, is not enough to conquer addiction.
dandylion
**I'll bet that Hammer will have an answer for this!!!!!!!!!!!
dandylion
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My favorite definition of love comes from "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck. While not a perfect definition, it's still the one I like best.
“Love is the will to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth."
Also from another book I read "Appreciation is the purest form of love."
L
“Love is the will to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth."
Also from another book I read "Appreciation is the purest form of love."
L
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
one of the best definitions that really rings true for me is to create a safe space for self and other to grow.
safe from rage, abuse, name calling, threats, put downs, sarcasm intended to hurt. a safe place that is gentle and nurturing. for EACH. it requires TWO. the love of one is not enough to compensate for two. love lets each be who they are but encourages each to be their better selves, because it feels good and right to do so. love wants to learn more about self and other, to explore. to never assume to know all there is to know about the other, to joyfully embrace the new.
I know, just for me, there is NO place I wish to be more than home with hank. altho if we did have two weeklong all expense paid trips to Hawaii and he didn't want to go? I would!
and he'd be ok with that. we are truly friends first. the things that drive me crazy don't give cause for long lasting resentment. we let stuff go. just when I think he'll never <<empty the garbage, do something about the pickle jar on the counter, mow the yard>> he does! he admires me. I still find him delectably adorable. he's a better cook, dammit. but I RULE on laundry and keeping house! not like it's a competition. we appreciate what each other brings to the table.
safe from rage, abuse, name calling, threats, put downs, sarcasm intended to hurt. a safe place that is gentle and nurturing. for EACH. it requires TWO. the love of one is not enough to compensate for two. love lets each be who they are but encourages each to be their better selves, because it feels good and right to do so. love wants to learn more about self and other, to explore. to never assume to know all there is to know about the other, to joyfully embrace the new.
I know, just for me, there is NO place I wish to be more than home with hank. altho if we did have two weeklong all expense paid trips to Hawaii and he didn't want to go? I would!
and he'd be ok with that. we are truly friends first. the things that drive me crazy don't give cause for long lasting resentment. we let stuff go. just when I think he'll never <<empty the garbage, do something about the pickle jar on the counter, mow the yard>> he does! he admires me. I still find him delectably adorable. he's a better cook, dammit. but I RULE on laundry and keeping house! not like it's a competition. we appreciate what each other brings to the table.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Here and now
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My mother remained in her Alchohell marriage for 45 years with my dad. He is now in a nursing home and she goes to see him every day with enthusiasm and you should see the way he lights up when he sees her walk in....She went through hell with this man for many years yet I see "somthing" still between them....could it be...Love?
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by dandylion 
**I'll bet that Hammer will have an answer for this!!!!!!!!!!!
See it is worse than you know -- you do not see my Really Bad posts because Mike or Hydrogirl take them down and send me a Nastygram.
(btw, Thank You to the Mods for all you do). That usually happens once a week or so. I know you all laugh at my stuff, but usually I am not trying to be funny. It is the real crap coming out of my mind at the time. Maybe that will give you some pity for Mrs. Hammer.
I was thinking about posting some silly quote about Love from a Book on Tape -- CD actually -- I have been listening to this last week. "screamfree Marriage. Calming Down, Growing Up, and Getting Closer." They say Love is when you want what is best for the other person, even if that is not you. Okay. Whatever.
===============
For me . . .
I know I used to sometimes scan a store or something "just looking" for what were some good looking wimmen to look at. More than a few times I found myself starring at a ponytail, or a certain walk, or something -- and I would be surprised when the woman would turn -- and it was Mrs. Hammer. Like I could "smell" her from a 100 yards away or something. I was just all tuned in to her. Like a "seek" program or something. Dunno if that is love or what.
But since they botched her psych on rehab -- that is only in my dreams. The (me) awake Mrs. Hammer is more like a zombie nightmare.
Today there was a couple at an Alanoon meeting. I laughed about that being
a hard thing, but remembered back to days when I would go to open AA meetings with Mrs. Hammer. Thought that was great. Went into daydream on that and I was sitting next to a nurse who looks like Mrs. Hammer used to.
We held hands for the prayer and were talking a little, and I went into to "gaze" on her, just because it was sort of like sitting with Mrs. Hammer again. She caught it, and was gazing back, but I know she is hurting, too.
Dunno on any of that but I guess my brain is just searching for that bond or connection or whatever.
Dunno.
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Location: NC
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“Love is the condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own.”
Robert Heinlein (American science-fiction writer, 1907-1988)
Without action "love" is a fading sentiment tied to the person with whom it originated.
Robert Heinlein (American science-fiction writer, 1907-1988)
Without action "love" is a fading sentiment tied to the person with whom it originated.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
I love my exabf, too. I feel completely and fully connected to him, and believe I always will. And I don't doubt that he loves me very much. Honestly, I could ditto your list of things you love to do with your A. We were exactly the same.
The problem for me was that my guy couldn't find a way to love our relationship more than his addictions. He lived for nearly 40 years of his life, before we met, loving his addictions. It was all he knew. After we were together, he worked so hard on his sobriety for stretches of time. He would be clean and sober, attending AA, meeting with his sponsor, meeting with a therapist, going to church, praying. He was his self-proclaimed best self. Life was pretty freaking amazing, he was amazing, and I was happy with him. But the demon would always creep back in. Slowly and unsuspectingly, and he would find himself back in the ugliness of the trap of active addiction.
TRUE love is not self-serving. TRUE loving relationships are not 50/50 but 100/100. Bob is right. Love is a choice. Active addicts don't have the capacity to give, or to choose to give in the way that another deserves.
Commitment is staying true to your word long after the mood you said it in has passed. Active addiction doesn't allow for commitment. TRUE love requires commitment, unselfishness, the choice to give as much as you receive.
I feel soap-boxy, so I'll quit now. My best to you, Jessica.
The problem for me was that my guy couldn't find a way to love our relationship more than his addictions. He lived for nearly 40 years of his life, before we met, loving his addictions. It was all he knew. After we were together, he worked so hard on his sobriety for stretches of time. He would be clean and sober, attending AA, meeting with his sponsor, meeting with a therapist, going to church, praying. He was his self-proclaimed best self. Life was pretty freaking amazing, he was amazing, and I was happy with him. But the demon would always creep back in. Slowly and unsuspectingly, and he would find himself back in the ugliness of the trap of active addiction.
TRUE love is not self-serving. TRUE loving relationships are not 50/50 but 100/100. Bob is right. Love is a choice. Active addicts don't have the capacity to give, or to choose to give in the way that another deserves.
Commitment is staying true to your word long after the mood you said it in has passed. Active addiction doesn't allow for commitment. TRUE love requires commitment, unselfishness, the choice to give as much as you receive.
I feel soap-boxy, so I'll quit now. My best to you, Jessica.
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Posts: 1,618
Originally Posted by thislonelygirl
Love is a chemical reaction in our brains that both helps us or gets us in trouble.
Alcoholic meet the lovaholic who cant seem to detox from your spell .
Alcoholic meet the lovaholic who cant seem to detox from your spell .
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: uk
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Originally Posted by thislonelygirl
Alcoholic meet the lovaholic who cant seem to detox from your spell .
hmm, lovaholism = L-anon or LA. Would love be able to legitimately say I was going to LA tonight. :P
box of chocolates
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by Lily1918
My personal beliefs call this lust.
Lust is a different reaction .. the reaction with love lasts longer and proven to physically hurt when heartbroken or apart.
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"Love" and the swoony, highly emotional feelings we have are from chemicals. For whatever reasons we are drawn to certain individuals and "falling in love" is the biggest chemical high on the planet. PHeremones? Physical traits? Voice? Why is it that we are drawn and feel head over heels attraction for "that" one?
Even when they go toxic, cruel, hateful, drunk we cannot seem to extricate ourself without extreme anxiety and pain. Nature designed it this way because couples are meant to stay together but nature doesn't have common sense!
It helped me to keep reminding myself that no matter how strong my feelings he was NOT relationship material!
Even when they go toxic, cruel, hateful, drunk we cannot seem to extricate ourself without extreme anxiety and pain. Nature designed it this way because couples are meant to stay together but nature doesn't have common sense!
It helped me to keep reminding myself that no matter how strong my feelings he was NOT relationship material!
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Originally Posted by thislonelygirl
Its scientifically proven that our brains have a reaction with the one we love.
Lust is a different reaction .. the reaction with love lasts longer and proven to physically hurt when heartbroken or apart.
Lust is a different reaction .. the reaction with love lasts longer and proven to physically hurt when heartbroken or apart.
box of chocolates
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,013
The science of love
Biological basis of love - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Relationships: Breaking Up Can Hurt -- Physically - ABC News
Broken heart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Research has shown that a broken heart*hurts*in the same way as pangs of intense physical pain. A 2011 study demonstrated that the same regions of the brain that become active in response to painful sensory experiences are activated during intense experiences of social rejection, or social loss generally. "These results give new meaning to the idea that social rejection 'hurts'," said University of Michigan social psychologist Ethan Kross, lead author of the article.[8][9]*The Michigan research implicates the secondary somatosensory cortex and the dorsal posterior*insula. Macdonald and Leary had earlier (2005) proposed the evolution of common mechanisms for both physical and emotional pain responses, and noted that multiple languages and cultures use terms like "hurt," "heartbreak," "hurt heart" or "ripped out my heart" to describe responses to social exclusion and argue that such expressions are "more than just a metaphor."[10]
Biological basis of love - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Relationships: Breaking Up Can Hurt -- Physically - ABC News
Broken heart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Research has shown that a broken heart*hurts*in the same way as pangs of intense physical pain. A 2011 study demonstrated that the same regions of the brain that become active in response to painful sensory experiences are activated during intense experiences of social rejection, or social loss generally. "These results give new meaning to the idea that social rejection 'hurts'," said University of Michigan social psychologist Ethan Kross, lead author of the article.[8][9]*The Michigan research implicates the secondary somatosensory cortex and the dorsal posterior*insula. Macdonald and Leary had earlier (2005) proposed the evolution of common mechanisms for both physical and emotional pain responses, and noted that multiple languages and cultures use terms like "hurt," "heartbreak," "hurt heart" or "ripped out my heart" to describe responses to social exclusion and argue that such expressions are "more than just a metaphor."[10]
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