lillamy

Again, it's one of my kids (the same one; it usually is).
Can anyone help me explain this to me? Because I don't get it?

This kid (high school) has been falling behind from the first week. We've tried everything -- tutoring, support teacher in the classroom (she has an IEP), etc. Threats of consequences. Finally, my partner said "how about a carrot? We could fly her out to see her favorite cousin this weekend if she catches up on school work by Friday!"

We checked that it was doable with the school, and told her. She was super excited and worked all week to catch up. And yesterday when I picked her up from school, she told me she was so happy that she was ALMOST caught up in ALMOST every class and she knew EXACTLY what she had left to do. And that it wasn't about getting to see her favorite cousin again -- it was the pride she felt in herself that she could actually DO this!

And then?

And then she came home and whittled away the evening doing NOTHING. And tonight, same behavior, until she melted into her bed and refused to talk to anyone and is just SLEEPING.

Every. Effing. Time.

Every time she is on the cusp of succeeding (in anything). Every time she's almost getting something she hotly desires. Every time, she self-sabotages. Every time. And then she blames everyone around her and circumstances and God and the weather and her siblings and me. And then she heads head first into another depression so deep that she has to be hospitalized again. I'm awfulizing now; I'm hoping it doesn't have to get that bad this time again. But that's the pattern.

I don't know how to break it. She's acting exactly like her father, AXH. Which of course pushes every single one of my last buttons. She saw her psychiatrist (whom she likes) yesterday and came away in really good spirits. She has a great therapist who specializes in addiction families, trauma, and abuse, and who really *gets* her. But I want your thoughts. Because you know addiction families from every angle

So two questions:

1) How would you explain this behavior?

2) How do I detach from this?

I know I have to. It's breaking me. The stress is affecting my physical health now, just like being married to her father did. I love my child to death but she's going to be the death of me at this pace.

Help? Any advice? At all? (other than "get to a meeting and work your program" because that part, I know I'm behind on already. Offer me to fly to LA and see Clint Eastwood and I might catch up...)

AllThings

My initial reaction is, high school like 14 or high school like 17? I do a lot with high schoolers and there is a huge difference. My 14 yr old needed a written schedule of what was to be done when and checked off as he went along. His advisor thinks it is really helping (granted he is in boarding school and I don't have as much time as I would like to double check.). But, he physically had to write down 7:00-8:00 Ancient Greek, 8:15-9:00 advanced biology, etc... And for a while someone HAD to check in on his schedule and goals. He is getting much better. He set his own goals, HE knew his consequences, and people checked. We aren't checking as much now and his grades are still improving.

Other than that, these are HER choices, let HER choose. What does her therapist think?

Impurrfect

lillamy - I can only relate because of my niece (she is my stepmom's (sm) granddaughter..her mom died when she was 13 years old, sm is a codie from day one).

There is a long history of alcoholism/drug abuse in both sides of her family (her bio-dad is back in jail, been there or in prison most of her life).

I'm both an RA and a recovering codie. TBH, I think of her as the child I never had and couldn't love her more.

That said? We fought for years in her teenage years. I call them the "f you" years, as we both said that a lot.

I worked my codie recovery more, I stopped arguing. Sm (who she considers her mama) continued to be major codie.

Bottom line. She got pregnant, got married, has a beautiful baby girl who is about to be a year old and we have a really good relationship. On the OTHER hand, my sm is staying with her and her hubby in a small apt., niece can't do ANYTHING without my sm, and I see yet another relationship getting messed up.

I can't fix it. I love them all. My niece was taken to county jail to see her bio-dad, now she's taking HER daughter to see him.

I choose to work recovery and show her there is another way. Whether she gets it or not, I don't know, but that's what I do.

My niece lied to her therapist, my sm has a very strong hold on her.

It hurts me to know that she's falling into the footsteps of very dysfunctional families (on both sides) and I can't do a darned thing about it.

As for now She knows I love her, we have a good relationship (this took YEARS) and she actually admires me for moving one from addiction (unlike her bio-dad).

I know the relationship she has with sm is very dysfunctional, but I also know I can't cure it. All I can do is offer my support (and boundaries) and hope that what I'm doing and what I've done will have an impact. I couldn't love her any more than I do, but I can only do so much (as all of us can) and at some point, we have to know that all we can do is our best and they have to find their own way.

I just hope that by doing "my own thing" I'm showing her she sees another option.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

Tuffgirl

Hhhmmm...I smell a self-sabotage routine here. She gets [this] close to the prize and then fails. I remember doing this myself at that age. For some reason - I still can't pinpoint - I failed when I knew I could succeed. When I hit my mid-20's and started actually allowing myself to succeed, great & amazing things happened in my life. But getting there? Tough.

I think it is really rooted in low self esteem. And here's my 2 cents...she is comfortably miserable.

It's easy to fail. Everyone expects it. It's what you are - a failure. A black sheep. A rebel (in my case!). But success? That was scary. It seemed tenuous, like if I got it once I could lose it and be a failure again. That was a lot to risk!

I was afraid. To succeed. And you know what? I've been so darn successful in my life in every aspect EXCEPT intimacy...and I am still afraid to succeed there. I am newly dating a wonderful and kind man, and I am TERRIFIED of success. Dumb, eh? But hey - I have lived a comfortably miserable life dating losers. Dating a respectable man who treats me well is foreign and uncomfortable. I have to make myself do it.

What can you do? I don't know...nothing my folks did seemed to work. Life worked. Life kicking my butt, I should say. Being poor. Hating Ramen noodles and mac & cheese. Hating my boss. Deciding one day that I want to be the boss, not have one. Having a child at 21 and realizing for the first time ever, I couldn't afford to be a failure.

What can you do right now? Tell her you love her regardless and you know she will find her way, in her own way, that will work for her and create amazing things for her. Don't ever stop believing in her. Don't ever stop telling her she can do great things, and you know her time is right around the corner. Don't ever give up.

And lastly, high school sucks. There, I said it. It was the worst time of my life. I hated every minute of it. Have you considered finding an alternative for her? If the problem is social...maybe she needs different socialization? In my day - it was public school or Christian school, and the Prevo's did not like me (I know you will laugh at that one!). But today, there are so many options aside from a classic public school schedule. She may do better in an environment that is more suited to her personality.

Good luck, lillamy. I can't tell you how awesome it was to move my 16 yr old from one school to another. This is the best year of high school ever. I haven't seen her this happy in a long time. Consider trying something new.

lillamy

I knew this was the place to come.
Thank you.
So much to think about, and TG? Lots of love to you. That was some awesome insight. I have to ponder that and go to bed now. But thank you.

thislonelygirl

I explain this behavior as her being a kid.
Yes...not all kids do this. Some do great at school others slack.
Just because she slacks diesnt mean there is something wrong with her.
I knew a girl straight a's worked hard in school over achiever tidy etc and then secrerly she was a huge ****...rude....stuck up ..did drugs etc.
Then I knew a girl who wasnt the over achiever...bare minimum ....slept in later....not as interested in school work but secretly she had high morals ...was kind to others and believed in god and was resosctful to her peers. She was just being a kid. It took her a long time to realize that work was fun and to get into ths habbit of it.
Dont look at ut like shes like this because of her father..
Look at it like shes like this because of herself.
Shes her own person and does things at her own pace.
Push her but dont be hard yourself.
Shes just being a kid

nbay2013

I concur with this statement. I was so anxious in High School my grades went way down, I cut school, I got high..I hated the teachers. Sounds like a lot of high school students! LOL..My parents got so frustrated with me that I just got more and more scared and guilty and acted out in response. I must say, for many teens, High School just does not work. I ended up dropping out, getting my GED later and by the time I was 23 years old I was finally ready for Junior College, and then my B.A. and then onto Graduate School. But High School really sucked for me too.

Tuffgirl

Lillamy, I came back and re-read my post...and I have to say...Journey's "Don't Stop Believin" is now playing in my head! I get such a kick out of reading my own stuff sometimes - thinking "where did all that come from?!" Thank goodness for my sense of humor, because I crack myself up all the time.

Anyway - I feel for your kiddo. And I have a feeling she is going to be ok in life. Maybe she needs to hear that from you. That no matter what, she is going to be ok. My Mom used to say it to me all the time back then, shoot, she still says it, and those very words have carried me through some pretty rough seas.

Everything will be ok. And on that note, I am shutting up now!

CodeNameGiggles

Has she been tested for gifted? And I don't mean some of the IQ or short cheap questionnaires they do for "gifted programs" in the school system typically.

Self-sabotaging is also a trait of gifted children. Sometimes they do it because they fear not succeeding (even when they know they will succeed) so they basically do a "screw it, then, I'll fail since I'll fail anyway" method of dealing with things. It's isn't that they can't do the work, or don't want to do the work, but they fall into the pattern of failing on purpose in order to control the outcome because the "chance" that they may fail after working hard on something is too much for them. There's a great resource on Facebook (type Hoagie's Gifted into the search bar on Facebook) where this issue pops up fairly regularly and people discuss what worked and didn't work for their children.

marie1960

The one thing I remember so clearly about teenagers, is they pretty much do whatever they damn well please. Their sense of self entitlement, their often very selfish actions and words will drive a parent crazy.

My youngest daughter would beg for forgiveness, but never, ever would or could she ask for permission. She knew what my answer would be long before she asked the question, so she would just empower herself, do what she wanted and face the consequences. Somehow it all worked out, but at the time, i thought I was going to lose my mind.

Hang in there, you are a great loving supportive mother. I think as she matures it will turn around, even though it doesn't seem like it today, you are on the right track, this too shall be a memory one day. I completely understand what my mother meant when she said, " I can't wait until you have children." and with a twinkle in her eye and a half smile, she would end the lecture.

MamaKit

Lillamy,
Sending you hugs. I had some thoughts I was going to post. But then I read Tuffgirl's comments and WOW. I don't know your child but I can relate a bit because I see the self-sabotage tendencies in my oldest. I think TGs words are pretty incredible and they hit me like a sledgehammer.
Wishing you strength as you continue with dedication to work at the toughest job in the world.
MamaKit

lillamy

Thank you -- I will look into that FB page. Yes, she is profoundly gifted and no, she hasn't been identified as such because her giftedness isn't of the type that the school tests identify -- she's almost the Asperger's type pattern-recognition gifted, in a conceptual/non-verbal sense, which is rarely identified. One of my other kids is more "normally" gifted and has been identified as such.

I'm still reeling a bit this morning and she's trying to manipulate me into stepping back the boundaries and letting her go anyway. And it's so damn hard to say no because she's so sad. Except she put herself in this situation. She had time to finish everything, she chose not to. Thank God she's seeing her therapist this morning.

lillamy

And TG? The Prevos not liking you gets you a gold star in my book. I consider myself a Christian but I have no time for those guys.

FireSprite

Tuffgirl nailed it exactly, from my POV, I agree 1000%. This is me to a T, in so many ways.

Success was scary & uncertain, failure was easy & a sickly comfortable rut to be in. Black sheep, misunderstood, the whole 9 yards. I embraced it at some point. I succeeded in the surface ways - like getting through the classes to get the grades - but putting it into ACTION? I struggled a lot & I still do. Having endless possibilities before me & being able to pick any direction I wanted to go in was (& still is) utterly terrifying to me. More terrifying to me than having limited options where there are boundaries (not necessarily good ones) & coming from a family dealing with addiction I liked my ruts! I understood them, knew what to anticipate, who I was & what my role was in it. It was part of my foundation as a person, literally ingrained in my core. When things got off that course my insides turned to jello.

This is one of the things I've come to face in my own recovery over the last few years & it was so hard to admit that nothing has held me back in life more than me, myself.

I also changed high schools midway through my junior year & sacrificed a lot of academic opportunities by doing so. It was very difficult but in terms of helping me develop as an independent person, it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I knew it then, could feel things changing... but with hindsight & a change in perspective as an adult I see it even more clearly now.

wanttobehealthy

Strictly thinking about this as a special ed teacher and trying to take the emotion out of it, SOME of what you describe falls pretty classically into executive functioning deficit stuff...

Is anyone at her school working on developing those skills (the maintaining a plan through to completion). Has she been evaluated for executive functioning defecits?

It could be that she knows what she needs to do and works and gives it her best for a while and then just can't keep the momentum going and needs the school to help her with a plan to complete things she starts...

Mention the executive functioning term to them and ask if they know anything about Peg Dawson (there's a really good book for parents by Peg Dawson about how to help your kids with executive functioning issues too)

The social/emotional part I wish I had advice... I see my older D8 headed down a path that scares me and I don't know what to do anymore than you with your teenage D.

Do you have a therapist for you?

I will think more and come back later... My heart hurts for you and your kids xoxo

lizatola

This is my son, too. Serious issues with executive function and other LD's that get in the way of him completing stuff. He's 14 but I find that I have to do a lot of hand holding and constantly questioning whether I'm crossing the line between enabling or guiding him along. I had a HUGE blow out yesterday with him during his writing assignment and it was a kick in the pants for him.

I know there are some neuropsychologist offices who specialize in executive function help and maybe they can better assess what is going on with your daughter. Is it self sabotage? Is it related to her IEP issues? Is it a typical teenage phase?

Big hugs to you, Lillamy because I seriously was banging my head against the wall earlier this week and I swore I was going to send him to boot camp! Our hearts and heads hurt from dealing with kids who have these issues.

LaTeeDa

I have no experience in the education field, and since you have gotten input here from those who do, I will leave that to the experts.

My ESH comes from being a parent and also a codependent. When I started recovery, it wasn't long before it became very apparent to me that my codependent tendencies had infiltrated my role as a mother. Not only that, but it's much, much tougher to break those habits when it's your children. All their lives I had been the go-to person for them. And not just in the way a mom should be, but in many ways that were detrimental to them.

A small example: my kids used to constantly ask me how to spell words. Being a pretty good speller, I would simply tell them the correct spelling. Once in recovery, I realized that I was doing for them something they should be doing for themselves. I started telling them to look it up, even though I knew how to spell the word. This made them very crabby. Why should they have to look it up when it would be so easy for me to just tell them?

And that's just one small bit of my parenting that I had to learn to do differently. It's really, really tough to *let* your child fail at something, especially when you know they are capable of succeeding. My position, since recovery, has been to let them know I am there to support them--if they are willing to do the work. I also had to let them know that they need to ASK if they want my help. I no longer jump in and try to save the day.

I think what TG said is perfect. Let her know you support her, have confidence in her abilities, but will not do the work for her. That, she has to do for herself.

It was a difficult transition for me and my kids. It took a long time. But, I find the role of "wise counsel" to be much more fulfilling than the role of "fixer of everything." And, it's been much better for them, too.

L

lillamy

Me too. Me too. In a big, huge way, especially with this kid, who was her father's whipping boy. And it only got worse after I left AXH, because I was trying to compensate for all the years I hadn't protected her from him.

It's difficult because we both slip back into that comfortable codependent bs when things get stressful. She is more dependent on me than a 14-year-old should be and to her credit, she HAS taken huge strides in not always having me as her go-to person. She does contact her school psychologist and her outside therapist when she needs to, and she even talks to my partner/her stepdad. Which is great and gives me some space. But when push comes to shove, she wants to be 3 and held and cuddled again.

nbay2013

I want to be 3 and held and cuddled again too!

LaTeeDa

My oldest is the same way. And I think it's okay to be there for her in that way. It's a tough balance to keep, for sure. I remember telling mine that how her life turns out is up to her, not me. But that I would consider myself a crappy parent if I didn't teach her that.

L