Advice about custody, I feel like it is a losing battle
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Advice about custody, I feel like it is a losing battle
My husband is an addict, he spent a couple of weeks in rehab Jan. 2013 and he says that he is "sober." I saw a letter from his sponsor in April, however husband never wanted me to be part of his recovery and therefore I decided it was best for myself and my daughter (3 yrs old) to stay moved out of the house. I drug test/breathalyzer him when he spends time with our daughter alone. I moved out of our home with our daughter Dec. 2012 because I couldn't take care of myself, her, keep my job, etc.
I think it is important to also mention that I filed an order of protection against him in April 2012 because his disease had progressed to dangerous for us. The courts protected me, but not our daughter, after the OP trial, he was working a outpatient program, but started drinking again in July, got a DUI in Sept, I filed for divorce in Oct. and I moved out in Dec. and then he finally went to the inpatient program. He is very angry with me about me leaving and says "I stole his daughter." He had supervised visits up to April and then we have progressed to unsupervised in stages. Right now he has visitation every other weekend and Wednesday evenings. We are going to court again shorty and he does not want to sign the parenting agreement the he will not drink 24 hours prior to and during visitation times. My question is how much do I push this? Isn't he going to drink if he wants to anyway, he is an addict so he can't control it, right? The addiction is strong and I don't want to fight it anymore, how can I get out of the cycle while simultaneously protecting myself and my daughter, financially and legally. Any advice would be helpful. Thank you in advance for taking the time to respond or read.
I think it is important to also mention that I filed an order of protection against him in April 2012 because his disease had progressed to dangerous for us. The courts protected me, but not our daughter, after the OP trial, he was working a outpatient program, but started drinking again in July, got a DUI in Sept, I filed for divorce in Oct. and I moved out in Dec. and then he finally went to the inpatient program. He is very angry with me about me leaving and says "I stole his daughter." He had supervised visits up to April and then we have progressed to unsupervised in stages. Right now he has visitation every other weekend and Wednesday evenings. We are going to court again shorty and he does not want to sign the parenting agreement the he will not drink 24 hours prior to and during visitation times. My question is how much do I push this? Isn't he going to drink if he wants to anyway, he is an addict so he can't control it, right? The addiction is strong and I don't want to fight it anymore, how can I get out of the cycle while simultaneously protecting myself and my daughter, financially and legally. Any advice would be helpful. Thank you in advance for taking the time to respond or read.
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My five cents is that you want the burden of proof to be on HIM if he's going to be sober during visitation times. That is, you don't want to be the person who has to go "Um, I don't believe you, I think you've been drinking, you need to go do a breathalyzer test" -- you don't want to become his jail guard.
And beyond that, GET A LAWYER.
I'm serious.
Something as important as a child's life, you don't want to be amateuring it.
(I'll be paying off my lawyer bills for years, but it was worth every penny.)
And beyond that, GET A LAWYER.
I'm serious.
Something as important as a child's life, you don't want to be amateuring it.
(I'll be paying off my lawyer bills for years, but it was worth every penny.)
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Join Date: Sep 2013
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I agree 100% with lillamy, any money you spend on protecting your child is money well spent, especially if things with your AH have escalated to a point where you don't feel safe and are not certain about the saftey of your child.
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Spend the money, push the issue. Your daughter's safety is paramount. You can't control him, but by him signing the agreement, you give the court orders teeth. The court won't like it if he can't/won't commit, or if he breaks the agreement.
I would go so far to include clauses if he shows up for visitation and you suspect he's been using how to proceed.
We are going to court again shorty and he does not want to sign the parenting agreement the he will not drink 24 hours prior to and during visitation times.
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Originally Posted by lillamy 
My five cents is that you want the burden of proof to be on HIM if he's going to be sober during visitation times. That is, you don't want to be the person who has to go "Um, I don't believe you, I think you've been drinking, you need to go do a breathalyzer test" -- you don't want to become his jail guard.
And beyond that, GET A LAWYER.
I'm serious.
Something as important as a child's life, you don't want to be amateuring it.
(I'll be paying off my lawyer bills for years, but it was worth every penny.)
And beyond that, GET A LAWYER.
I'm serious.
Something as important as a child's life, you don't want to be amateuring it.
(I'll be paying off my lawyer bills for years, but it was worth every penny.)
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 391
"The court won't like it if he can't/won't commit, or if he breaks the agreement."
I agree with all that has been said so far, particularly with regard to the lawyer. My XAH wouldn't agree to anything, ignored filing requirements during the court proceedings, and simply fought everything, every step of the way. The court did not appreciate that one bit. The final judgment went 100% my way. He' s even been ordered to pay half of my legal fees (I doubt I will see that happen).
Good luck and stay strong. You can do this!
Hugs,
MamaKit
I agree with all that has been said so far, particularly with regard to the lawyer. My XAH wouldn't agree to anything, ignored filing requirements during the court proceedings, and simply fought everything, every step of the way. The court did not appreciate that one bit. The final judgment went 100% my way. He' s even been ordered to pay half of my legal fees (I doubt I will see that happen).
Good luck and stay strong. You can do this!
Hugs,
MamaKit
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A friend of mine has in the divorce agreement that her husband has to report to a company that does drug testing and do a urine test before the weekends he has the kids. I know that doesn't help once the kids are there, but knowing he has to do that (and knowing that the company can call him at any time during the kids' visit and require him to come in and do a urine test) has seemed to keep him on the straight and narrow so far.
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You might bypass all this anxiety by insisting that his visitation be supervised.
If not, I've seen other people mandate in the court agreement that you can call the police for a breathalyzer if you suspect anything -- and pay a fee (to whom? I don't know) if he blows nothing. There are also monitoring services that you can ask he pay for if he doesn't want supervised visitation.
If not, I've seen other people mandate in the court agreement that you can call the police for a breathalyzer if you suspect anything -- and pay a fee (to whom? I don't know) if he blows nothing. There are also monitoring services that you can ask he pay for if he doesn't want supervised visitation.
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Originally Posted by Readreadread
I can't control the addiction, only he can, is the document a boundary or is it me trying to control the addiction?
Because getting court orders about sobriety testing, etc. isn't really just a "boundary" that you quietly put in place to protect your own mind set. It is a real-world action that will have a direct effect on your qualifier and will force him to do certain things. But court orders aren't just something you do to try and make your qualifier make the choices you want him to make. The court orders are something you do to put the maximum protections in place for your kids, and in my opinion, they are important because then you can document if he violates them, bring another court action, and get him knocked back to supervised visits only. The power is still ultimately in his hands...he can choose to abide by the orders, or he can choose not to. He will have to deal with the consequences himself. But in the end, it's about creating an environment where there's some measure of protection for your kids, and creating a paper trail to have his visitation restricted should that become necessary.
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Totally agree with Wisconsin here. Well said!
My stbxah had his first overnight with the children this past summer. Actually the judge gave him 3.5 weeks but he took 10 days instead.
The rules are there to protect the children. Who cares if he drinks otherwise. Ah was ordered to not drink and drive. He had to stay in the country (against his requests) and to keep me informed of their whereabouts (he didn't).
Monday we go before the judge to discuss how things went.
I am so glad the judge is keeping an eye on him. He has had to get regular blood tests for alcohol and be evaluated by a specialist.
He may come out looking like he's got the drinking in check but isn't being a very responsible father nevertheless.
I have been wondering if all this monitoring is getting him to think about his alcoholism more. If he's white knuckling it, this isn't recovery but at least he hasn't driven drunk with the children in the car.
He is definitely drinking more cautiously than last year, which is good given these visits. My concern is once he thinks he is out of the judge's watch, he gets out of control while the children are in his care.
You want every protection you can get for your child. The more rules and documentation, the better. It isn't about him. It's about your little one's safety.
Horrible to have to go through this.
My stbxah had his first overnight with the children this past summer. Actually the judge gave him 3.5 weeks but he took 10 days instead.
The rules are there to protect the children. Who cares if he drinks otherwise. Ah was ordered to not drink and drive. He had to stay in the country (against his requests) and to keep me informed of their whereabouts (he didn't).
Monday we go before the judge to discuss how things went.
I am so glad the judge is keeping an eye on him. He has had to get regular blood tests for alcohol and be evaluated by a specialist.
He may come out looking like he's got the drinking in check but isn't being a very responsible father nevertheless.
I have been wondering if all this monitoring is getting him to think about his alcoholism more. If he's white knuckling it, this isn't recovery but at least he hasn't driven drunk with the children in the car.
He is definitely drinking more cautiously than last year, which is good given these visits. My concern is once he thinks he is out of the judge's watch, he gets out of control while the children are in his care.
You want every protection you can get for your child. The more rules and documentation, the better. It isn't about him. It's about your little one's safety.
Horrible to have to go through this.
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Posts: 235
It is very hard! I have had a long battle. The truth to my case was I spent a ton of money, but until there was a reason and an open CPS case, he got to visit them unsupervised. I am in a horrible county for crime and violence. My case was small. I have heard from many lawyers, social workers, and therapists proving your case is very hard and tiring. I would work with an Alanon sponsor and therapist to see what things you are trying to control and what are legit.
I know it's hard and this is your baby but from a mom who drove her kids to the xah's house in tears and then straight to Alanon what is meant to hpen will. Try not to stress. Document, document, document. Call CPS if they are neglected or in danger.
I know it's hard and this is your baby but from a mom who drove her kids to the xah's house in tears and then straight to Alanon what is meant to hpen will. Try not to stress. Document, document, document. Call CPS if they are neglected or in danger.
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You're facing the same issue that's given me 1000 sleepless nights. Why are there no protections for the best interests of children? We know how parental alcoholism affects kids emotionally, academically, physically. We know it's a progressive disease and mostly only gets worse - multiplying the problems for kids. This is highly predictable.
Yet state legislators would rather protect the rights of adults - even slurring, wobbly, passed-out ones - instead of protecting kids. Until and unless the drunk kills or maims a kid, it's incredibly hard to do much to protect the kids.
My experience with XA's ETG urine testing wasn't great. It doesn't cover 80 hours as advertised but maybe 24-48 hours; studies show high false negative results after that time frame. If the alcoholic has the child for the weekend, the test lab isn't open then, so you couldn't verify any Friday drinking, for example. Plus it is super easy to dilute urine by drinking tons of water and evade the test. If you do urine tests, be sure you put in the order that dilution or other evasion equals failure.
Another option is Soberlink, which provides for random testing during unsupervised visits via a Blackberry/breathalyzer that takes a picture of the person blowing. Just make sure he pays for it in the order. You would probably get to have the data and see if it's him, but that puts you in the monitoring role.
I have concluded that prayer is about the only answer to protect our children, if the Legislatures and courts won't.
If everyone on this forum contacted their legislators and governors (who are all running for election right now) and demanded protection for kids and an end to "alcoholic's rights" maybe we could make a difference.
Yet state legislators would rather protect the rights of adults - even slurring, wobbly, passed-out ones - instead of protecting kids. Until and unless the drunk kills or maims a kid, it's incredibly hard to do much to protect the kids.
My experience with XA's ETG urine testing wasn't great. It doesn't cover 80 hours as advertised but maybe 24-48 hours; studies show high false negative results after that time frame. If the alcoholic has the child for the weekend, the test lab isn't open then, so you couldn't verify any Friday drinking, for example. Plus it is super easy to dilute urine by drinking tons of water and evade the test. If you do urine tests, be sure you put in the order that dilution or other evasion equals failure.
Another option is Soberlink, which provides for random testing during unsupervised visits via a Blackberry/breathalyzer that takes a picture of the person blowing. Just make sure he pays for it in the order. You would probably get to have the data and see if it's him, but that puts you in the monitoring role.
I have concluded that prayer is about the only answer to protect our children, if the Legislatures and courts won't.
If everyone on this forum contacted their legislators and governors (who are all running for election right now) and demanded protection for kids and an end to "alcoholic's rights" maybe we could make a difference.
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Thank you, and one more thing....
Thank you for taking the time to respond and I appreciate all of the helpful info. I am interested in Soberlink and now understand the necessity of having the parenting agreement state that he will be sober during visitation. During his first outpatient treatment program he was also diagnosed as NPD. Currently, he leaves my daughter and I alone and only shows up for visitation when he feels like it. I know that whatever changes that I make during the divorce process that there will be retaliation from him. My concern is that the only leverage that he has is that I care about the well being of our beautiful daughter. I am afraid that if I stir the pot,
he will take is visitation just to spite me and not because he wants to spend time with our daughter and this would not be in her best interest either. Does anyone have any experience with an addict that is also a narcissist? How do I navigate through a custody battle with someone like that?
he will take is visitation just to spite me and not because he wants to spend time with our daughter and this would not be in her best interest either. Does anyone have any experience with an addict that is also a narcissist? How do I navigate through a custody battle with someone like that?
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My ex was diagnosed NPD also. xA basically views visitation as a game of keep-away and tried to take even more time away during mediation out of spite.
A helpful book is "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone With Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder," by Bill Eddy. It suggests using an assertive approach, documenting, and being "brief, informative, friendly, and firm" in emails.
I've chosen to drop testing altogether and just have an injunction against A's drinking before and during visitation. I can't say I am happy about it. I am no longer the testing nanny and no longer am blamed for trying to "control" A's drinking and no longer have to hear excuses that a medical condition was the reason for test dilution blah-blah-quack-quack. But truthfully, having basically no protection in place for a small child has given me no peace. I pray daily that when (not if) A drives drunk with the child, no harm comes to the child but A is arrested and finally faces some consequences. Apparently that is the only way the courts will take some action to protect a child.
A helpful book is "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone With Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder," by Bill Eddy. It suggests using an assertive approach, documenting, and being "brief, informative, friendly, and firm" in emails.
I've chosen to drop testing altogether and just have an injunction against A's drinking before and during visitation. I can't say I am happy about it. I am no longer the testing nanny and no longer am blamed for trying to "control" A's drinking and no longer have to hear excuses that a medical condition was the reason for test dilution blah-blah-quack-quack. But truthfully, having basically no protection in place for a small child has given me no peace. I pray daily that when (not if) A drives drunk with the child, no harm comes to the child but A is arrested and finally faces some consequences. Apparently that is the only way the courts will take some action to protect a child.
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I have read, "Splitting..." Great read. I guess what I am wondering is, if I chose not to fight, could it ease the NPD behaviors and retaliations or is that being codependent, "believing that if I do xyz things, my qualifier will respond in more normal ways?" Am I still hoping for normal behaviors from someone who is not capable of exhibiting normal behaviors?
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My xAH who Im embroiled in a ugly custody war with right now is, I am sure, NPD.
NOTHING I do has any impact on his behavior.
If I am hard and firm he retaliates. If I am gentle and accommodating he takes advantage. If I am neutral and communicate as little as possible he varies between being retaliatory and acting reasonable and I never know what to expect.
My lawyer has wisely told me to be the nicer/bigger person in written communication and that we should try our best to settle this out of court bc someone with NPD can easily fool GAL's, custody evaluators, judges and I have now seen first hand that that is 100% true.
I am having to learn to live with being horribly uncomfortable with the arrangement the court has ordered and try to just value the time I am with my girls and not think too far ahead. Living one day at a time bc of the unpredictability of an xAH is no different than living with an active AH.
NOTHING I do has any impact on his behavior.
If I am hard and firm he retaliates. If I am gentle and accommodating he takes advantage. If I am neutral and communicate as little as possible he varies between being retaliatory and acting reasonable and I never know what to expect.
My lawyer has wisely told me to be the nicer/bigger person in written communication and that we should try our best to settle this out of court bc someone with NPD can easily fool GAL's, custody evaluators, judges and I have now seen first hand that that is 100% true.
I am having to learn to live with being horribly uncomfortable with the arrangement the court has ordered and try to just value the time I am with my girls and not think too far ahead. Living one day at a time bc of the unpredictability of an xAH is no different than living with an active AH.
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