A Word About Seeing a Lawyer
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A Word About Seeing a Lawyer
This comes up so often on the board, and it is regularly mentioned in responses to posts asking for suggestions on "next steps." I wanted to just say a few words about this...not as advice, and certainly not suggesting that any particular person in any particular situation SHOULD go see a lawyer. Rather, I just wanted to give a little of background on seeing an attorney, and how it can help. I know we have other legal professionals on the board who might have other/additional thoughts. I spent 10 years in private practice (not as a family/divorce lawyer), and went through a very difficult, ugly divorce from my first husband (who was not an A).
1. The very large majority of attorneys who practice family law/divorce law will be happy to talk with you for an hour or so, free of charge. Calling a lawyer doesn't mean you have decided to leave. It is only an acknowledgement that you are unsure of what your rights are, what the process is like, and what things you should be particularly aware of. Most family/divorce attorneys I know will be happy to consult with you over the phone, saving you a trip to their offices.
2. It doesn't matter if you are married to your qualifier. If you are living together, have children together, have joint assets (like a car, or a house), have joint debt (like a credit card), it might be worth it to consult with an attorney if you have even the tiniest kernel of thought that you might be leaving.
3. A free consultation with a lawyer will give you a chance to give the basic outline of the facts of your situation. A lawyer will then be able to give you a general idea of what the laws are in your jurisdiction (child custody, child support, spousal support, property division, etc.). If you are in a situation where your qualifier has made threats to you about child custody, child support, finances, etc., a lawyer can give you an idea of what the actual, realistic possibilities are in your situation. (For example, if your alcoholic wife is threatening to take the children and move them to Alaska...an attorney will be able to tell you how likely that actually is.) Living with and/or loving an A often results in a constant "crisis mode," and it's hard to think clearly when someone is threatening to do something like take your children. One short hour with an attorney can really do a lot to ease some irrational fears.
4. A lawyer can also give you some general, basic steps to take to protect yourself. Many forum members share those steps here as well (things like keeping a journal of your A's abusive behavior, putting a passcode on your cell phone, etc.). Each situation is so very different, and it's up to every individual to decide what steps they are able and willing to make, but a lawyer can at least give you some ideas. If you are considering recording things your qualifier says, it's a good idea to mention that to an attorney. Some states have laws that require BOTH parties to a conversation to know they are being recorded.
An hour with a lawyer can do so much to answer your questions, help you set some reasonable expectations about the process, and give you suggestions on steps you can take to protect yourself.
Just my 2 cents...lawyers get a bad rap (and rightfully so in some instances), but a good family/divorce lawyer is equal parts lawyer AND therapist, and can really help guide you through a very painful, difficult, and intimidating process.
Finally, if your resources are limited, a quick Google search for your local legal aid organization can provide you with contact information for free legal services in your area. If you are a victim of domestic violence, most DV agencies can also connect you with a qualified attorney.
1. The very large majority of attorneys who practice family law/divorce law will be happy to talk with you for an hour or so, free of charge. Calling a lawyer doesn't mean you have decided to leave. It is only an acknowledgement that you are unsure of what your rights are, what the process is like, and what things you should be particularly aware of. Most family/divorce attorneys I know will be happy to consult with you over the phone, saving you a trip to their offices.
2. It doesn't matter if you are married to your qualifier. If you are living together, have children together, have joint assets (like a car, or a house), have joint debt (like a credit card), it might be worth it to consult with an attorney if you have even the tiniest kernel of thought that you might be leaving.
3. A free consultation with a lawyer will give you a chance to give the basic outline of the facts of your situation. A lawyer will then be able to give you a general idea of what the laws are in your jurisdiction (child custody, child support, spousal support, property division, etc.). If you are in a situation where your qualifier has made threats to you about child custody, child support, finances, etc., a lawyer can give you an idea of what the actual, realistic possibilities are in your situation. (For example, if your alcoholic wife is threatening to take the children and move them to Alaska...an attorney will be able to tell you how likely that actually is.) Living with and/or loving an A often results in a constant "crisis mode," and it's hard to think clearly when someone is threatening to do something like take your children. One short hour with an attorney can really do a lot to ease some irrational fears.
4. A lawyer can also give you some general, basic steps to take to protect yourself. Many forum members share those steps here as well (things like keeping a journal of your A's abusive behavior, putting a passcode on your cell phone, etc.). Each situation is so very different, and it's up to every individual to decide what steps they are able and willing to make, but a lawyer can at least give you some ideas. If you are considering recording things your qualifier says, it's a good idea to mention that to an attorney. Some states have laws that require BOTH parties to a conversation to know they are being recorded.
An hour with a lawyer can do so much to answer your questions, help you set some reasonable expectations about the process, and give you suggestions on steps you can take to protect yourself.
Just my 2 cents...lawyers get a bad rap (and rightfully so in some instances), but a good family/divorce lawyer is equal parts lawyer AND therapist, and can really help guide you through a very painful, difficult, and intimidating process.
Finally, if your resources are limited, a quick Google search for your local legal aid organization can provide you with contact information for free legal services in your area. If you are a victim of domestic violence, most DV agencies can also connect you with a qualified attorney.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
This is a great suggestion ~
I paid for a consultation with an attorney almost year before I actually left. It gave me the information I needed to look at my situation realistically and what I needed to do to protect myself as much as I could if I decided to leave.
It was well worth the $100 for the knowledge & peace of mind it gave me to help me make the decisions I had before me.
Great Post Wisconsin!
Thanks!
pink hugs!
I paid for a consultation with an attorney almost year before I actually left. It gave me the information I needed to look at my situation realistically and what I needed to do to protect myself as much as I could if I decided to leave.
It was well worth the $100 for the knowledge & peace of mind it gave me to help me make the decisions I had before me.
Great Post Wisconsin!
Thanks!
pink hugs!
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
I still remember, very clearly, the abject terror I felt when my then-husband told me he would be taking our daughters to live with his parents. The rational, reasonable part of my lawyer brain KNEW he couldn't do that, but those kinds of threats just ate away at me, and I allowed them to disrupt every aspect of my life. I can't even imagine how much worse it would have been if he had been an A, on top of everything else. Talking to a family/divorce lawyer gave me so much more peace and serenity about a lot of things.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
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Having left my AH less than a week ago, I can absolutely attest to the fact that seeing a lawyer in advance to advise me of my rights, what I could and should do as well as what I could not or should not do was the best thing I did for myself and my nerves.
My AH was showing anger and making threats. I am not sure that he would have followed through with those threats but I wasn't about to stick around and find out. I spoke with the lawyer on the 10th and started making my exit plans. By the 16th things had turned really sour, so on the 17th I made plans with family and friends to be on stand by and help me get out the first chance I had. In the meantime, I shuttled things out that were not replaceable for several days until I had the opportunity to move out with what I could get in a few hours. I left on the 21st and he was not suspecting it at all.
Needless to say.... he was and is angry but I did everything legally as advised by my attorney. I had to leave all big stuff and furniture behind but I took before and after photos and videos and kept a list of what I took and what was left. He has already said I am getting nothing more, made threats etc, but it doesn't matter now. I am safe and if he wants to battle, the court will tell him what he HAS to abide by now.
Unfortunately we went through this same thing a number of years ago. I had a jerk for an attorney (thought a shark was best) but have found that some attorney's want you to argue because they get more money the more difficult things become. This time I checked backgrounds and profiles and when I met with my current attorney I explained my wishes to stick with the facts and try to avoid the "he said, she said" drama that in the end, the court does not care about anyway.
My AH was showing anger and making threats. I am not sure that he would have followed through with those threats but I wasn't about to stick around and find out. I spoke with the lawyer on the 10th and started making my exit plans. By the 16th things had turned really sour, so on the 17th I made plans with family and friends to be on stand by and help me get out the first chance I had. In the meantime, I shuttled things out that were not replaceable for several days until I had the opportunity to move out with what I could get in a few hours. I left on the 21st and he was not suspecting it at all.
Needless to say.... he was and is angry but I did everything legally as advised by my attorney. I had to leave all big stuff and furniture behind but I took before and after photos and videos and kept a list of what I took and what was left. He has already said I am getting nothing more, made threats etc, but it doesn't matter now. I am safe and if he wants to battle, the court will tell him what he HAS to abide by now.
Unfortunately we went through this same thing a number of years ago. I had a jerk for an attorney (thought a shark was best) but have found that some attorney's want you to argue because they get more money the more difficult things become. This time I checked backgrounds and profiles and when I met with my current attorney I explained my wishes to stick with the facts and try to avoid the "he said, she said" drama that in the end, the court does not care about anyway.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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Originally Posted by Charmed3 
Unfortunately we went through this same thing a number of years ago. I had a jerk for an attorney (thought a shark was best) but have found that some attorney's want you to argue because they get more money the more difficult things become.
You are totally right about "shark" lawyers. Almost universally, I tell people who inquire to choose a reasonable, even-tempered lawyer, and to be prepared to COMPROMISE, because one person almost never gets every single thing they want. There are always exceptions to that rule, especially when the addict spouse just stops showing up, but I always advise that people need to make a very, very short list of what is absolutely non-negotiable, and be prepared to compromise on everything else. Every once in awhile a situation calls for a "pitbull lawyer," but most of the time you are totally right--those lawyers just run up the legal bills and encourage and foster the drama. My ex's lawyer did that, and had obviously convinced my ex and his parents (who were footing the bill) that the judge would ultimately order me to pay my ex's attorneys' fees. When the judge basically laughed in their faces at that request, my former in-laws quickly cut the purse strings, and that crazy lawyer hasn't been involved in anything since (we have had periodic trips to court to adjust child support and alimony). It was a very expensive lesson for them to learn the hard way.
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin
My ex's lawyer did that, and had obviously convinced my ex and his parents (who were footing the bill) that the judge would ultimately order me to pay my ex's attorneys' fees. When the judge basically laughed in their faces at that request, my former in-laws quickly cut the purse strings, It was a very expensive lesson for them to learn the hard way.
I am hoping that once the anger subsides, he will remember and undertand that he will need to compromise or pay an attorney to get what he was going to get anyway.
And.... his parents are not willing to put up any money this time so I think he will come around sooner.
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I wanted to add just a couple of other things:
1. As of 2013, there are still some states that recognize common law marriages (long-term partnerships where the people involved were never legally married). Something to keep on your radar screen if you live in Alabama, Colorado, Kansas, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Iowa, Montana, Utah, Texas, or the District of Columbia. The laws can be really complicated, but in short, even if you never married your A you might still be entitled to certain protections that a spouse would receive if you were in a common law marriage.
2. As of 2013, there are some states that have "community property" laws for married couples. These laws can also be really complicated, and usually merit a trip to see a lawyer, but the general rule in a community property state is that all property acquired during the marriage belongs to equally to both spouses, regardless of whose name is on the property. Community property states tend to prefer to split all community property 50/50, but like I said...it's very complex and confusing. Right now, community property states are: Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington, and Wisconsin.
3. Finally, there is a lot of basic information to be found in the Internet about any particular state's laws and practices regarding divorce, custody, child support, alimony, etc. That can be a good starting place if you have questions, but much like you probably shouldn't rely on the Internet for medical advice, I would suggest that Internet-based legal information should be taken with a grain of salt. Not just because you can never know who the source really is, but also because in certain areas of the law, including family/divorce law, guidelines, laws and practices can vary from county to county, and even the judge assigned to your case can have his or her own biases and preferences that will affect how you should proceed if you file for divorce.
1. As of 2013, there are still some states that recognize common law marriages (long-term partnerships where the people involved were never legally married). Something to keep on your radar screen if you live in Alabama, Colorado, Kansas, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Iowa, Montana, Utah, Texas, or the District of Columbia. The laws can be really complicated, but in short, even if you never married your A you might still be entitled to certain protections that a spouse would receive if you were in a common law marriage.
2. As of 2013, there are some states that have "community property" laws for married couples. These laws can also be really complicated, and usually merit a trip to see a lawyer, but the general rule in a community property state is that all property acquired during the marriage belongs to equally to both spouses, regardless of whose name is on the property. Community property states tend to prefer to split all community property 50/50, but like I said...it's very complex and confusing. Right now, community property states are: Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington, and Wisconsin.
3. Finally, there is a lot of basic information to be found in the Internet about any particular state's laws and practices regarding divorce, custody, child support, alimony, etc. That can be a good starting place if you have questions, but much like you probably shouldn't rely on the Internet for medical advice, I would suggest that Internet-based legal information should be taken with a grain of salt. Not just because you can never know who the source really is, but also because in certain areas of the law, including family/divorce law, guidelines, laws and practices can vary from county to county, and even the judge assigned to your case can have his or her own biases and preferences that will affect how you should proceed if you file for divorce.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Great post, Wisconsin! I completely agree that a consultation with an attorney is an excellent idea for many of us.
I'll throw my experience out there too in case it helps anyone. I had a consultation with an attorney on April 1...have not yet followed up as AH is now RAH, but I appreciate the information I learned. I took in a list of questions about what options I had if necessary - separation, support, divorce - and learned how each process worked. I also inquired about separation of our assets, etc. in case it came to that and how it was generally viewed by the courts in our state.
A serious concern to me was DUI laws. My RAH had a couple DUI's in the early 1990's, and I wanted to know what could happen if he got another, especially if it resulted in an accident causing harm to others.
Knowledge is power...talking to an attorney does not require you to utilize their services, but allows you to be informed and secure that you are within your rights.
Thanks for the post, Wisconsin, and to DesertEyes for making it sticky!
I'll throw my experience out there too in case it helps anyone. I had a consultation with an attorney on April 1...have not yet followed up as AH is now RAH, but I appreciate the information I learned. I took in a list of questions about what options I had if necessary - separation, support, divorce - and learned how each process worked. I also inquired about separation of our assets, etc. in case it came to that and how it was generally viewed by the courts in our state.
A serious concern to me was DUI laws. My RAH had a couple DUI's in the early 1990's, and I wanted to know what could happen if he got another, especially if it resulted in an accident causing harm to others.
Knowledge is power...talking to an attorney does not require you to utilize their services, but allows you to be informed and secure that you are within your rights.
Thanks for the post, Wisconsin, and to DesertEyes for making it sticky!
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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QNother benefit to having consulted with an attorney in advance is that attorney (at least in my area--don't know what the actual rules/laws are) may not be able to represent your partner in any future proceedings. It may be to your advantage to speak with the meanest, nastiest lawyer you are most afraid of (and couldn't afford anyway) so that you will not have to face him/her in a courtroom.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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I have not spoken to an attorney yet, but feel like that has to be my next step after reading these posts. I have been with my AH for six years and it is a daily roller coaster. Three days ago he got physical with my 12 year old son, shoving, holding and pushing because he thought he was being disrespectful. You see, on top of alcoholism he is a USMC vet with PTSD and anger issues. On top of that situation, he told our four year old today that "Daddy's going to move out, because we don't love him (in his drunken state). I've officially had enough and can see that he will never stop. What makes this all the more complicated is that we just bought our first home together last month...we haven't even paid our first mortgage payment and I'm wondering how this mess will play out now. He can't afford this house on his own and I can, I earn three times what he does. I put all the money down on the house but we used his VA loan to purchase it. I want him to leave, but I know he won't go without a fight. Do I have legal grounds to have him removed? I suppose talking to a lawyer is my next step, but Im just wondering if anyone else has had success in keeping the home that was in both names.?
I have had such a cleansing cry tonight, reading all of these stories that could be ripped right from my book. I am a classic codependent woman who has now had two marriages to alcoholics. I swear that single forever is my next phase. I just want to raise my sons by myself. I have moved past any glimmer that my AH will ever find sobriety.
I have had such a cleansing cry tonight, reading all of these stories that could be ripped right from my book. I am a classic codependent woman who has now had two marriages to alcoholics. I swear that single forever is my next phase. I just want to raise my sons by myself. I have moved past any glimmer that my AH will ever find sobriety.
Sober since 10th April 2012
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Originally Posted by Jenny8056
I have not spoken to an attorney yet, but feel like that has to be my next step after reading these posts. I have been with my AH for six years and it is a daily roller coaster. Three days ago he got physical with my 12 year old son, shoving, holding and pushing because he thought he was being disrespectful. You see, on top of alcoholism he is a USMC vet with PTSD and anger issues. On top of that situation, he told our four year old today that "Daddy's going to move out, because we don't love him (in his drunken state). I've officially had enough and can see that he will never stop. What makes this all the more complicated is that we just bought our first home together last month...we haven't even paid our first mortgage payment and I'm wondering how this mess will play out now. He can't afford this house on his own and I can, I earn three times what he does. I put all the money down on the house but we used his VA loan to purchase it. I want him to leave, but I know he won't go without a fight. Do I have legal grounds to have him removed? I suppose talking to a lawyer is my next step, but Im just wondering if anyone else has had success in keeping the home that was in both names.?
I have had such a cleansing cry tonight, reading all of these stories that could be ripped right from my book. I am a classic codependent woman who has now had two marriages to alcoholics. I swear that single forever is my next phase. I just want to raise my sons by myself. I have moved past any glimmer that my AH will ever find sobriety.
I have had such a cleansing cry tonight, reading all of these stories that could be ripped right from my book. I am a classic codependent woman who has now had two marriages to alcoholics. I swear that single forever is my next phase. I just want to raise my sons by myself. I have moved past any glimmer that my AH will ever find sobriety.
A work in progress
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Location: South Jersey
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This is a good thread to bump up, though. Wisconsin's advice is right on. Without knowledge, you're likely to waste time worrying about things you don't need to, while overlooking things you need to address.
Jenny, divorce law is very different from one jurisdiction to the next. So even if someone on the forum had a situation similar to yours, it might play out very differently in a different state.
I'm a lawyer, myself, and I cannot give you legal advice (even if I knew where you lived), but usually once someone files for divorce either party could file a motion for an order giving them TEMPORARY exclusive possession of the house (i.e., until everything has been settled). Other temporary orders might include child support and temporary spousal maintenance (the latter is something you probably wouldn't get if your salary is much higher than his, though you conceivably could have to pay him temporary support). How the house is ultimately disposed of may depend on what you agree to or what other property/debts exist.
It can get VERY complicated, and truly, there is no point in worrying about the house until you've talked to a lawyer.
Jenny, divorce law is very different from one jurisdiction to the next. So even if someone on the forum had a situation similar to yours, it might play out very differently in a different state.
I'm a lawyer, myself, and I cannot give you legal advice (even if I knew where you lived), but usually once someone files for divorce either party could file a motion for an order giving them TEMPORARY exclusive possession of the house (i.e., until everything has been settled). Other temporary orders might include child support and temporary spousal maintenance (the latter is something you probably wouldn't get if your salary is much higher than his, though you conceivably could have to pay him temporary support). How the house is ultimately disposed of may depend on what you agree to or what other property/debts exist.
It can get VERY complicated, and truly, there is no point in worrying about the house until you've talked to a lawyer.
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This is such a great thread... Im not a lawyer but having represented myself more successfully pro se than with the lawyer I selected originally, I had one thing to add to this post...
If I could do it over again I would have looked at the states near me (since I live close to the border of several) and educated myself about the divorce laws from state to state.
My state for example is one of few that adheres to a 50/50 custody split unless one parent is dead or incarcerated (essentially). My state believes and behaves accordingly that the rights of parents, whether they are a danger to their kids or not, supercede the rights of kids.
So if you're on a border of another state, perhaps look to see if it makes sense to file in another state. I realize that would entail having to change residence etc... But this was suggested to me many many times AFTER I had filed when it was too late...
Just my two cents!
If I could do it over again I would have looked at the states near me (since I live close to the border of several) and educated myself about the divorce laws from state to state.
My state for example is one of few that adheres to a 50/50 custody split unless one parent is dead or incarcerated (essentially). My state believes and behaves accordingly that the rights of parents, whether they are a danger to their kids or not, supercede the rights of kids.
So if you're on a border of another state, perhaps look to see if it makes sense to file in another state. I realize that would entail having to change residence etc... But this was suggested to me many many times AFTER I had filed when it was too late...
Just my two cents!
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 667
I can chime in to offer another kudos. When my ex relapsed I decided I needed to be prepared. I had discovered she was researching Common Law marriage rules online. So I went to an attorney to prepare for what I maybe didn't know was coming. The attorney asked me a few questions and assured me there was no common law marriage present. I volunteered she was an alcoholic. That prompted a few more helpful things to do. She closed the consult by saying, if your ex decides to make a claim against you, (she doubted any attorney would), we have NO PROBLEM answering. Until then, don't worry about it.
With that peace of mind, I could proceed in a more informed manner.
With that peace of mind, I could proceed in a more informed manner.
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I think seeing an attorney(s) was one of the best things I could do to control the mess I had become. I was getting unrealistic threats from my X and just felt desperate, like I could lose my children. Seeing an attorney put it all into perspective for me, and let me know how to legally proceed when I was ready.
FYI....I also went and talked to a couple of attorneys that I did not want my X to use, just in case. Big attorneys that are huge fathers rights advocates, which is fine, as long as dear ol dad is not a drunk. So, by my speaking to them first, this would have created a conflict of interest should my X have decided to use one of those attorneys. Oddly, another attorney, who is a friend of mine, tipped me off to do this.
FYI....I also went and talked to a couple of attorneys that I did not want my X to use, just in case. Big attorneys that are huge fathers rights advocates, which is fine, as long as dear ol dad is not a drunk. So, by my speaking to them first, this would have created a conflict of interest should my X have decided to use one of those attorneys. Oddly, another attorney, who is a friend of mine, tipped me off to do this.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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I'm so glad people have found this thread helpful. I originally wrote it two years ago because several posters were really struggling with the idea of consulting a lawyer. I also know how impaired many of us become with respect to thinking rationally about things where our qualifiers are concerned, and I wanted to make sure people knew that a consultation with a lawyer can go a loooooong way in re-framing the issues of separating/divorcing in a rational way.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin
My ex's lawyer did that, and had obviously convinced my ex and his parents (who were footing the bill) that the judge would ultimately order me to pay my ex's attorneys' fees. When the judge basically laughed in their faces at that request, my former in-laws quickly cut the purse strings, and that crazy lawyer hasn't been involved in anything since
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