BlueSkies1

Thanks tuffgirl...in response to another thread I don't want to hijack...

Thinking about manipulation. Thinking about how it disarms us, takes away our power. Thinking about how to get our power back is to recognize when we are being played, in the millions of ways that that can transpire.
I think we need some good education here on manipulation, we need a thread on it, how to recognize it, how to listen to our feelings, that nasty little uneasiness, that anxiety that comes with manipulation, that confusion, the pressure that we react right away to a manipulative technique in order that we don't have time to really think anything through...
I've come so far on this particular topic and really listen to my feelings now, instead of feeling instead that pressure to react how the alcoholic wants me to, and give myself the right to listen, think, and not react immediately but respond when I'm darn well good and ready, or if ever, depending on whether I want to!
Drunks are masters at manipulation. Even the best well-meaning ones, and those that never seem to want to hurt their codies.
Alcoholism is a manipulation game, among other issues.
Street smarts...something I sure didn't have for so many years.
Now my eyes narrow at the slightest manipulation...it so ain't gonna happen! (My street talk to go along with my new street smarts).
I'm on high manipulation alert forever more...and little is going to fly in that direction.
This once extremely gullible girl is all grown up now and can hold her own.

So let's talk about it.
Examples of how any of us have been manipulated. Examples of how you overcame it. Examples of no more wool over your eyes, you can see it clearly now. Details! The devil's in the details!

My alcoholic knows it won't fly anymore. He doesn't try very often (notice I didn't say never tries).
He also has realized he doesn't want to try, because there will be bad consequences, no longer the reward of reacting the way he wants, or getting some thrill out of pulling my chain...
We've both come a long way.
Respect is a very good thing.

BlueSkies1

And I'll start...
Blocking a doorway when they want to talk to you. An arm across the opening leaning on it so there's no room to get through, even though they know you want to go in that direction.
I say it straight. (I am the "straight man" here in this relationship anyway!)
"Don't block the doorway if you want to talk to me. Ask me to talk to you."
I have this power now, I didn't before. He backs right off.
Granted, he listens, he hears, and he realizes (hopefully) what he was doing.
I don't need to be intimidated into talking to you. But it's still my choice whether I do or not, and you will not block my way...is the message I get across.

Sunshine888

My AH is great at sending me texts to show that he is "trying." Supposedly, he left a message for our couples counselor. He went to church on Sunday. He has gone to a few AA meetings. His lame efforts are examples of him trying to get back in the door. He wants to resume our marriage without having to actually stop drinking. I haven't seen him in over a month. He will be served papers from my attorney this week so that I can move forward with a divorce as soon as state law will allow. I actually stand up to his manipulation now and these miniscule little "efforts" he throws at me no longer give me a sense of hope. I am done with false hope. I want to be happy.

Tuffgirl

The best one I can think of that I've encountered with a variety of people (and the XAH on a regular basis) is:

Said people behaving inappropriately or in a rude manner, then when I react to it in anger, telling me "See!! You are the one with the anger problem! You are never satisfied! You are [fill in the blank with whatever blame-storming patronizing phrase here]!!!"

Hate that... and these days, avoid it completely. Anyway who uses this tactic is no longer my friend. Period.

dancingnow

Oooh yes manipulation the thought of it makes me livid. Even RAH can go down that road at times, though not on a regular basis, thankfully and not as severe.

In the active days the manipulation I hated the most and which I think was the most destructive to my psyche was AH offering to help me out with tasks when it was convenient for him and sometimes actually taking over something I was doing. This allowed him to use it against me and justify his absence when he didn't come home or he was incapacitated because he was drinking.

I cannot explain but it did so much damage to me, making me feel incapable and second guessing myself when I was asking for help I did truly need and not getting it.

Never, ever want to go back there. I have learned to step away from that and for a long time in a neutral place. I haven't yet gotten back to fully asking for help when I need it and accepting help when it is offered.

Wondering if others know what I mean about this and experienced this type of manipulation.

Sunshine888

Yes, Dancingnow! AH will do X, Y and Z and use that as an excuse to get out of A, B and C when those are the things that I really need.

Wisconsin

For me, what made it easiest for me to identify his manipulating behavior was to finally identify and admit to my OWN.

For a long time, after a confrontation, I would begin raising issues (overdramatized or not) designed to create sympathy (my mom's health was very poor, my brother was in a car accident, etc.). As I realized that the timing of me raising those issues was suspect (I never raised them when we were having a productive conversation, or during a time when I felt reasonably confident I would receive an appropriate response), I knew I was trying to manipulate the ugliness in our relationship and control it in a way that suited me. Once I knew THAT, it was easier for me to see how my AH was attempting to manipulate me via the ugly things he said and did. And once I saw THAT, it was easier for me to detach from the ugliness, and not let it get to me.

wellnowwhat

When we were first married I thought it was an equal situation and tried very hard to be inclusive in "our" decisions. When we were out, AH would invariably make some comment about being whipped, or how things always were my way. I would correct him, "no, don't you remember we both decided...". After a while I got worn down with these stories and no longer corrected him, although things were pretty mutually decided.

Fast forward a few years and I am realizing the problem alcohol is playing in our marriage and fed up with him not participating much, so I do take more control of the decisions. And he is still carrying on with the "whipped" stories.

Fast forward some more, I've started Alanon and realized how controlling I became so I conscientiously back off and become inclusive again. He won't contribute to any decision, big or small. Absolutely refuses and says "what do you want to do?"

We are having a discussion and I say to him: don't give me credit for your thoughts or decisions (which he was caught doing to his mother). He sneers at me "oh everyone knows that you decide everything around here".

Light bulb moment: that was his intention from day one, not to take any responsibility! No matter what he says, everyone is to think I put him up to it.

I got to almost admire his patience and persistence in putting this message out there, if it weren't so sick.

soberhawk

The sad cost of being manipulated or having been through abuse is that you loose trust.

I can not say whether it is a genetic disputation in me or my background, I think they later plays in. A suspicious mind can be an advantage at times, it has been an advantage at times in my work life that I am sensitive to what motives people have. When I look back on my live I think I have paid a price in my personal live due to lack of trust in people.

When I read some stories in this section and I read it as people are being used and manipulated and I find them a little to trusting a part of me thinks they need to realize this and detach. But I am also thinking that being trusting is being emotional healthy – it is just not any good if you meet the wrong people and are being manipulated.

funkynassau

Good topic, thanks! The alkie I knew would try to manipulate me to drive him places when he'd had too much beer to be able to drive. At first I thought I was being a friend, just helping the guy, but slowly it dawned on me what he was doing. He was running low on beer and needed to get to the beer store...

I go to a local music school once a week and I talked this guy into going with me because he'd bought a new set of electronic drums and didnt know how to play them. So he signed up for 4 classes. I'd stop by and get him and drive us to the school. Then I found he was wanting me to get to his house a little earlier each time, so we could go to the beer or liquor store first! I said no, we dont have time. He flipped on me and we didnt go because it was too late, it was out of our way. He was mad and said he had no beer and would therefore have to drink vodka. Good grief. So I made sure to never get to his place early, just enough time to make it to the school for band. After the 4 lessons he quit and I was glad because he spent most of his time fussing and fighting with the other band members and our leader. I figured out he wanted to be home and drinking and that he didnt function well at that time of day.

The event that made me the maddest about manipulation was when hubby and I went to Mexico in March and doofus thought I needed to get him a bottle of tequila. I didnt think I needed to do that. So I didnt buy one in Mexico nor did I buy one in the duty free at the Buffalo airport. We crossed into Canada and I was vodka-less but knew I'd hear about it. We werent home long when he phoned wanted his bottle. He actually gave me sh1t for not buying it, and I said I had 10 bucks US left (true) and wanted it for me. He said - well you have a mastercard. Yes I do, but didnt want to spend my money on him.

Fast forward about a month. I went with doofus to a big city near us and wanted to go to the liquor store there. I truly wasnt thinking this thru, I shouldnt have done it with him along. So in we go, and he heads for the vodka section and gets on my case about the bottle I didnt buy him in Mexico or the US and tells me I should buy him one right then and there! I said no. He harassed me for a long time about this then said ok, how about we split the cost of the bottle. I said no. He carried on like a kid and in the end I agreed to pay half. ONLY TO SHUT HIM UP. I was annoyed with myself because I got sucked into doing something I didnt want to do and should not have done. I was an enabler. I never got roped into anything again with him after that. I learned my lesson.

NWGRITS

With my AM, it was usually making me feel like sh*t over stuff. Tangible things like clothes or shoes, or a vacation or something. If I accepted whatever said thing was, I was using her. If I didn't, then I was an ungrateful b*tch. She asked to borrow my first credit card when I was 20, and promised she would pay me back. She maxed it out and I never saw a penny. However, both she and my grandmother would say, "Just look at all the stuff I've bought you. That's what I owed you, right there." If only that put money on my card or saved my credit. I love their parenting philosophy: "If you can't love em, buy em off."

My abusive ex (not an A) would use threats of self-harm to get his way. It worked for the better part of five years.

mrschoices

I'm a double winner and I got very sick with my problems. I did the steps in AA rooms where the work is very thorough for those who are really sick like me. I did not know until later I was Alanon qualified.

As an A myself I need AA but being in these specific rooms of AA I go to, it's a small percentage of AAs who attend them, I deal with constant baiting.

The Power is very great in these rooms I go to in AA too, the recovery is awesome, we really have spiritual awakenings. But the disease remains in both them and in me. We are not cured.

I have had the self-esteem sucked out of me dozens of times by these people. I also deal with a lot of gossip, slander actually. It is painful.

What I realize is these people CAN'T stop. They just CAN'T. Even the nicest of them do it if I LET them.

But wait a minute. I must have a part.

If I allow it and people please because I'm too afraid to trust myself, God forbid I make a MISTAKE, then well isn't people pleasing a form of manipulation too?

I never knew this but when I people please it can feel to the other person like I'm sucking the self-esteem out of them TOO. It can feel to them like I'm getting them to not trust themselves too.

Having no boundaries = people pleasing.
People pleasing = manipulation.

I have one of these people trying to set up a real good baiting manipulation now. He's the nicest guy and had told me we are friends, that this is honest. But I knew what I felt from the get-go and instead of saying NO I talked to him on the phone and met him for lunch. I was honest with him about my concerns and he assured me his friendship was honest.

BULLSH-T!

So I have decided to just have some courage and not return any calls and when he comes preying after me at a meeting I will say, "Nice to see you" PERIOD. He'll ask me out to lunch or if I can meet him at a meeting...anything to take it further and I'll just say NO. Period!

The bottom line is this: when it comes to preying emotionally, they aren't gonna stop. They CAN'T. In all the millions of ways they do it, they just can't freakin stop it.

But I can.

mrschoices

When I have a wonderful spiritual conversation with a guy in AA and at the end of it he had to take it further and ask me to hang out with him instead of just letting the conversation end with no demands, everything that was just said in the entire conversation was a lie.

Sueski

This is brilliant. Concise and to-the-point. Thank you. I really needed this one today. I'm printing it out and posting where I can see it.

thislonelygirl

What do they NOT do to manipulate. Thats the real question.


But a few examples how my ah has are
1. Using saddness or anger to avoid responsibility conversations or actions.
Example:I want to talk about money missing or a loan you took out. Ah response :aggh! Slam door. No or blabbering "sorry I just wanted blank or did it for blank. Usually for me or kids. Rolls eyes.

2. Picking a fight or making an excuse to leave to get alcohol or drink
Example: " I know its 10 at night but I really feel like we need (insert ridiculous item)

3. Using me or the kids to justify drinking
Example A. "The kids want pizza. You want pizza. Im getting pizza. Family night" comes back drunk "I got you pizza so you should just be happy "
Example B. If you werent such a b I wouldnt drink.

4.false security and flattery
Example: "I know what your thinking. Im not getting alcohol. I dont want to drink but I want to geta surprise for you because you do so much or I need some money and I love you I wont be out long. Your the best.

5. Using hollidays or special occassions to get what he wants
Example: its Christmas and Its only egg nog . Comes once a year (igmoring that his drinking is NOT once a year.

6.pretending to be pre occupied in his car for 30 minutes
Example: ah pulls up but sits in his car for way too long saying he called someone and just wanted to sit in his hot car for an hour just because or it took 30 minutes for his favorite song to end or the car needed to be babysat and shown attention.

7. Pinning everyone against each other
Example: ah to his mom "I drink because wife is controlling and crazy and lazy and hateful."
Ah to wife "I drink because my mom was too affectionate and she says things about you etc"

8. Using a program to continue to drink
Example A. Aa makes me want to drink....all they do is make you feel bad about yourself and talk about drinking and B. Im workimg a program. Im trying to get sober even though hebhasnt been at all.

9. Proving a ridiculous point
A. You do blank or you just expect me to be perfect so I should be able to drink because nobody is perfect and blank does it