paula a.

My AH has always been a pretty predictable drinker. Never drank at home, and never drank on workdays and binged his way through his days off. Because of that my kids have never really got to see him in all of his glory. Which was perfectly fine with me. Well now things are changing. He stops and grabs a six pack for the ride home from work, gets that finished up when he gets here, then heads to the tavern. That alone wouldn't bother me so much, but he is making a point of coming home fairly early so that he can get up at five a.m. for work, so the kids are starting to see him drunk more and more often. My son is five and thinks dad is great fun this way because he'll come in and crank up the stereo and dance all night with the boy if I let him. But my daughter is thirteen and she is starting to react to this. She is embarrased and annoyed by him when he is drunk (can't blame her!!), and suddenly I have these flashbacks to my mom and dad being drunk. Dad was always pretty calm (when he wasn't in a rage), but my MOTHER, wow could she make you want to leave the room! Anyway, I can see this affecting how my daughter acts toward him when he's sober. She's a pretty respectful kid, but she has been getting a little lippy with him, which isn't a good thing. She is at the age where she really doesn't want mom kissing and hugging her and after he finally went to bed last night she curled up next to me on the couch and I rubbed her hair like I did when she was five, those of you with teenagers know this is not allowed! LOL I'm getting worried about her.
I guess what I am wondering is do I tell him I do not want him drunk around the kids? And how in the world do I do that without making it look like I'm attacking him, or trying to guilt him into not drinking? I am trying hard to do this detaching thing and don't want to get sucked into his world. Or do you think because I have been detached lately that this is just a new game, his way of forcing me to argue with him?
I am sooooo confused!
Paula

JT

Short of leaving there is not alot you can do to change what what is happening. You can talk to him and tell him what you see happening but you probably won't get much long term change out of that. You never know tho.

The person to talk to is your daughter...she is at a critical age. She needs honesty. When I was growing up none of this was talked about and I think if someone had been aware enough to be honest with me maybe I could have handled it better. I ended up acting out by staying away from home most of the time. Basically I hit the streets.

There may be a school councelor, clergy or Alateen that she can confide in if she is willing. If you think this is hard for you, think about the fact that her personality is being formed.

(((Daughter)))
JT

Gabe

Hey Paula,
My older two were in their teen years when Spicoli's drinking and dope smoking was at it's worst. There were plenty of times that they were embarrassed by it. One of the worst was when Spicoli went to one of my son's swim meets drunk. I knew I had no control over what Spicoli did, so I just talked to my kids whenever these episodes took place. Sometimes, just being able to voice their feelings of embarrassment and disappointment helps them a whole lot.
It's hard to be the only functional parent, yeah?
Hugs,
Gabe

paula a.

I actually did talk to her last night, but you know at that age it's like pulling teeth. I asked her if she was upset and she said yes, and I said "you know it's okay to be upset--this is upsetting stuff. I want you to know that it's okay to tell me if you're mad about dad being this way, or are you just upset because you know I'm upset?" (I have been kind of worried lately that I am projecting things to her) She said it wasn't because of me, she just doesn't like how he acts when he's drinking. I told her it was okay to not like it, and then I told her "you have your very own walking billboard about why people shouldn't drink! And maybe if we are VERY lucky dad will see how this is hurting himself and all of us and he will give it up someday, up until that happens though, you have the option to go hang out in your room when he comes home like that so you don't have to deal with it."
I don't want to get into big detail with her about it, I know I can get into a pretty good tangent about his drinking on a bad day so I hope I kept it simple enough for her and didn't make her feel overwhelmed. I think back to my childhood and see like JustTired that we weren't allowed to discuss this kind of thing, so hopefully I am making a change with her so she won't repeat my mistakes. That is what I think is causing me more than anything to seek help here, I do not want my kids to jump on the merry go round. My little guy WILL NOT be a carbon copy of his father and my daughter IS NOT going to be just like mom. At the very least I will do everything I can to make that not happen.
Gabe, I think if my AH showed up at an event for my kids loaded I would probably come home and shoot him myself! It's sad that I will let him torture me but I can't stand to see my kids suffer his stupidity! Maybe because they don't have a choice in the matter and I do. Why, why, why does alcoholism have to affect so many unwilling participants???

I think I am going to sit down and write him a letter about this. I don't think I can just not say anything and at least that way he will have to listen to what I say and it can't turn into world war three. Do you think that is a good option?

JT

Paula,

I have written a ton of letters to people and often I never send them and sometimes I do. The mere act of writing things down can be so eye opening that it becomes unnecessary.

Sometimes it is impossible to say what you want without ending up getting all turned around by their manipulation. Those are the times I do send the letter.

We mother's will sacrifice it all for our kids. Unfortunately while my son was growing up nothing ever really got solved...time passed to quickly and all we did was fight about it without resolving a thing. That is my biggest regret in life.

Hugs,
JT

Gabe

I know what you mean Paula. I spent a lot of years sticking up for my kids, but not sticking up for myself.
I find letter writing very theraputic. Most of the letters I write never get sent, I just need to write it all out on paper. It's "system maintenance" for my soul.
Gabe

paula a.

I am the absolute best "hate mail" writer I know! LOL I'm not sure how many trees I've used spouting off only to toss the whole works into the trash because I felt better for writing it down. Probably a good thing or my head would have popped clean off of my shoulders by now from the pressure, since God knows I would never, ever speak up and defend myself otherwise!
But seriously, I think this is one letter he will probably receive, I'm guessing it won't make a heck of a lot of difference, but if it makes him think for just one second about someone elses feelings, it will be worth it. Thanks you guys for being an awesome sounding board!
Paula

paula a.

Ain't that the truth!! My H is a whiz with words, I need to think about things for a minute before I reply, but he can spout off the most unbelievable b.s. without a moments hesitation, and then he can convince you that he's right just as quickly. VERY SCARY that someone that intelligent gets sucked in by a bottle!

Paula

jessieandme2003

I tried showing my AH that his actions were hurting others. As someone said here, they turn everything you say around in a way that changes the meaning. He will not believe that what he is doing is wrong, or that it effects anyone else. Proof isn't going to change it. They are masters at justification and rationalization. He was constantly saying "it doesn't effect you" and "i am no different when i am drinking except maybe i am happier".

I used to be amazed that he thought that, and try to prove him wrong. But what I didn't realize was that he doesn't want to believe it, so I was never going to prove anything to him. I know that now. We aren't ever going to be able to make them suddenly 'see'.

So then there's my daughter, who is 10, and not his. I hated her seeing my AH through her far-more-knowing-10-year-old-eyes. When he and I began living together she was just 5 and didn't see much. Things were able to go smoothly if I managed everything just right. But as she got older it bcame impossible to hide things. I became so ashamed of him. And then ashamed of myself for being with someone behaving like him, and her seeing it. I felt like some bad Lifetime for Women TV movie.

So I started telling her the truth. And telling her the truth of how I felt about it too. I decided I did not want to 'protect' him anymore. He used to get very mad, saying things like "why do you say that in front of her, now she'll think I am a loser." And I'd be amazed he found a way to make what she thinks of him my fault too.

I just knew it was more important that I not try to manipulate her into thinking everything was ok. That was the nightmare I had lived, she deserved better. Besides, she would know what she was seeing wasn't right, and then she'd begin to have trust issues with me. I couldn't let that happen.

It was a big decision, to be honest with her when he did things like not come home because he went to the bar, or whatever. That way I could say soemthing to him and not worry about her hearing it. I really think it was better than her continuing to go to her room all the time to avoid being around us when the tension was so thick. I already feel I robbed her of several years of her childhood because we lived that way.

Daffodil

It seems to me that the family disease of alcoholism thrives on;

Don't talk about it.
Don't feel what you feel.
Don't hear what you hear.
Don't say what you think.

The truth of the matter to me today is;

This is my reality and I am sticking to it.

Telling children the truth is far more healthy than saying nothing, or worse denying there is something wrong. As a child growing up in the family disease I knew we were sick. I just didn't have the ability to deal with it nor a grown-up around to teach me new tools.

McKrazy

Paula, I read your post with such interest. I'm in a similar place with three kids, my oldest 14. I can handle alot, I can detach, I can work on me, I can..... well, lots of stuff. My six year old shouldn't have to. She shouldn't need to. I'm so confused as to what to do that would be healthiest for all involved. I'll be watching your posts closely and hopefully learn from your questions and decisions, too. Take care, friend!
Pam

paula a.

That's just it, how do you decide what is best? Obviously, living like this is not good for anyone involved, then you get into the but's and what if's. But, I love him, but he's a good provider, but he loves the kids, what if he DOES quit drinking?? I caught myself looking at the apartment ads yesterday, and thought to myself are you really considering this? Here my kids have me with them every day, if I leave I will have to work (probably two jobs) and they will never see me, but they won't have drunk boy in their world. Is it a fair trade?? Which way is more suffering? My head is just spinning!
I do agree with all of you that honesty with the kids is the best way to go. I am going to quit protecting him from them knowing what's going on. I am going to tell my daughter if she needs to talk with someone about it we will arrange it, but that she can always talk to me. Other than that I guess it's just one day at a time, right??
Take care everyone, I'm off to do the grocery shopping and stop at the book store for some new reading material--Codependant No More, sounds like a good place to start!
Hugs,
Paula

McKrazy

Paula, there's also a book that I read called "raising healthy children in an alcoholic home" that had as its basis the whole "emotional honesty" principle. It changed the way I dealt with the problem as far as my kids went. They don't know everything, because they are at different emotional levels, but they do know what's happening and they do know it's a family disease. My oldest goes to a group at school with other kids of "users". "Best" is a hard term, yes? I've given myself a few landmark dates in which to try to make some decisions, and realize that I really need to wait on God to tell me, and it may be sooner/later than I'm ready for. I do, however, see that remaining where we are currently is not in their best interests anymore. The older they get.... it's all so incredibly difficult, but I guess life is hard for all of us sometimes. We just got to keep searching for the right answers and help eachother out, that's become my solution. Take care

JT

Paula,

You have done all you can for today...you have made a few decisions and deferred a few until you know more. You are off to start becoming informed and you are sharing how you feel. Believe me..that is a lot.

Big life decisions are best put off until you know more. I am a proponent of "earning your way out" By that I mean doing all you can to stop being part of the problem. When you can honestly say you have done that a decision becomes so much more clear and it can be made with no "if only's".

We get sucked into this family disease whether we like it or not. But with determination we can make a quiet exit by changing what we can...ourselves.

Hugs,
JT

McKrazy

well said, JT, thanks!

paula a.

I'll second that!!
I actually do feel better, I don't feel like I am making circles in the dark trying to find my way out. It's amazing what just a small bit of action will do for you!
There wasn't a book store open this morning, RATS, I was really looking forward to coming home and burying myself in one. I did find what looks like an awesome bookstore though, I think it was called "Great book sale" or something along those lines and just looking in the window it's HUGE and everything in it is supposed to be 50 or 80% off retail, I can hardly wait to go back. Their co-dependant section will have a very large dent in it when I'm done I think.LOL
Thanks so much everyone for helping me through this, it is so nice to no longer be all alone.
Hugs,
Paula