When to change from supervised to unsupervised visitation?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Florida
Posts: 23
When to change from supervised to unsupervised visitation?
My alcoholic ex is permitted supervised visitation with our daughter twice a week. Everyday I receive an email or a text stating that he no longer needs a supervisor because he has not had a drink in 2 months. I am not ready to leave my daughter alone with him because I do not believe that he has quit drinking or is in a program - he still blames me for everything and states that I am controlling his life. Did others have a set of criteria that the non-custodial parent had to meet before he/she was permitted unsupervised visitation or did you just know? Part of me feels like I should say to him - you need to do X,Y and Z but I know he will do it to make me happy and then go back to his old ways. How should I respond when he asks "what will it take for you to leave our daughter alone with me?"
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 391
Hi Elis,
Is the requirement that the visits be supervised a requirement set forth in a court order? Are you granted the flexibility/authority to determine when those visits may be unsupervised? I only ask these questions because I know that there are some very wise people that will come along soon and offer you some guidance - and this information may be helpful.
I have an interim order in my divorce (final one pending) which grants my ex certain unsupervised visitation (no overnights). Anything beyond that is "by agreement" - which means I get to say yes or no. It is a mixed blessing, because I do get final say, so to speak, but it also puts me in the situation of assessing whether or not, an overnight visit (for example) is a safe situation for the kids. I understand your position and it is a difficult one.
There are others who are more experienced than I to answer...but I am sending you hugs and support.
MamaKit
Is the requirement that the visits be supervised a requirement set forth in a court order? Are you granted the flexibility/authority to determine when those visits may be unsupervised? I only ask these questions because I know that there are some very wise people that will come along soon and offer you some guidance - and this information may be helpful.
I have an interim order in my divorce (final one pending) which grants my ex certain unsupervised visitation (no overnights). Anything beyond that is "by agreement" - which means I get to say yes or no. It is a mixed blessing, because I do get final say, so to speak, but it also puts me in the situation of assessing whether or not, an overnight visit (for example) is a safe situation for the kids. I understand your position and it is a difficult one.
There are others who are more experienced than I to answer...but I am sending you hugs and support.
MamaKit
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 74
Two months is *nothing* -- the last relapse my husband made, he'd gotten to 75 days. And during that relapse, he bought alcohol with my children in tow.
So no. If he can make it to a year's sobriety? Then you can talk about it. But two months is nothing. Especially if he's not actively doing anything to work on it.
And when he asks that question? Keep it honest. "When you've proven to me that you are trustworthy." Actions speak louder than words. Two months isn't enough time to undo years of damage.
So no. If he can make it to a year's sobriety? Then you can talk about it. But two months is nothing. Especially if he's not actively doing anything to work on it.
And when he asks that question? Keep it honest. "When you've proven to me that you are trustworthy." Actions speak louder than words. Two months isn't enough time to undo years of damage.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Just because he asks a question, doesn't mean you have to answer it.
When he asks "what will it take for you to leave our daughter alone with me?", you don't ever have to answer at all. If he has only supervised visitation, it was the Court that made that decision and ordered that, not you.
So, if you say anything at all, maybe it is "This is what the Court ordered, and this is what we have to do." That is why you hired a lawyer and went to Court in the first place.
You are letting him get back into your head and mess with you, and you are starting to re-negotiate terms with him. You don't ever have to do this.
This is the consequence of his behavior. He has to live with it until he takes the actions sufficient to petition the Court and convince them that he has reformed.
How old is your daughter? Taking care of her is the only thing that matters here.
I would suggest you go no contact with your X entirely except for the supervised visits. Tell him that you will only read and respond to contact from him about these visits. Who is the supervisor for these visits? If it is not you, and is someone you trust, have them be the recipient of his messages to arrange visitation.
ShootingStar1
When he asks "what will it take for you to leave our daughter alone with me?", you don't ever have to answer at all. If he has only supervised visitation, it was the Court that made that decision and ordered that, not you.
So, if you say anything at all, maybe it is "This is what the Court ordered, and this is what we have to do." That is why you hired a lawyer and went to Court in the first place.
You are letting him get back into your head and mess with you, and you are starting to re-negotiate terms with him. You don't ever have to do this.
This is the consequence of his behavior. He has to live with it until he takes the actions sufficient to petition the Court and convince them that he has reformed.
How old is your daughter? Taking care of her is the only thing that matters here.
I would suggest you go no contact with your X entirely except for the supervised visits. Tell him that you will only read and respond to contact from him about these visits. Who is the supervisor for these visits? If it is not you, and is someone you trust, have them be the recipient of his messages to arrange visitation.
ShootingStar1
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Florida
Posts: 23
Yes, this is a court order. 3 days before our trial, his attorneys finally convinced him to settle and agree to supervised visitation because: 1. I had a therapist who was going to testify to my ex's instability, 2. I had a PI who was willing to testify that he was drinking on a regular basis - including times when he cancelled his visits 3. My ex cancelled more than 50% of his scheduled visits. Of course my ex thinks that he can go back to court and convince a judge that he should have unsupervised visits and I am very fearful that this may happen. I have heard too many court horror stories.
My daughter is 4 1/2. We have 3 people who are approved supervisors (his sister, his cousin and one of my daughter's therapists) but my ex is no longer speaking to his sister and he refuses to contact his cousin and the therapist. I refuse to be a supervisor. He has seen our daughter 3 times out of the last 22 scheduled visits.
I know he is still getting in my head. I am just so tired of constant text messages from him and my attorney says that we cannot legally stop him. I only answer the ones that have to do with our daughter.
What does the court need to see to grant him unsupervised visitation? I am so afraid that he will fool the court into unsupervised visitation.
My daughter is 4 1/2. We have 3 people who are approved supervisors (his sister, his cousin and one of my daughter's therapists) but my ex is no longer speaking to his sister and he refuses to contact his cousin and the therapist. I refuse to be a supervisor. He has seen our daughter 3 times out of the last 22 scheduled visits.
I know he is still getting in my head. I am just so tired of constant text messages from him and my attorney says that we cannot legally stop him. I only answer the ones that have to do with our daughter.
What does the court need to see to grant him unsupervised visitation? I am so afraid that he will fool the court into unsupervised visitation.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
If he really wanted the time with his daughter, if it meant that much to him, he would do whatever it took to spend time with her under the current arrangements. That means suck it up for the sake of his daughter and contact his cousin, sister, or therapist. He is not willing to make the sacrifice, and do the work. He wants what he wants, and he wants it his way. I call bull---t on his demands. Don't listen, don't let him in your head.
"No" is a complete sentence.
"No" is a complete sentence.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
I imagine that you are already doing this, but keeping complete records of when he does and does not see your daughter, and perhaps e-mailing all of his texts to a separate e-mail file on your computer would give you ample evidence of his state of mind and unreadiness to be a proper parent.
Could you forward his text messages to a friend or relative and have them save them and only forward back to you ones that relate to his visitation with your daughter? If he knew you were doing this, he might not find it worth the effort to keep harassing you.
ShootingStar1
Could you forward his text messages to a friend or relative and have them save them and only forward back to you ones that relate to his visitation with your daughter? If he knew you were doing this, he might not find it worth the effort to keep harassing you.
ShootingStar1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Florida
Posts: 23
We have been going through this nonsense for a long time so I have learned to keep very detailed records. I can't monitor what he says to her on the phone but he has told me that he tells our daughter that it is my fault that he can't see her.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,423
In my opinion the answer to this question:
what will it take for you to leave our daughter alone with me?"
Would be something along the lines of "when you have proven you are a sober & responsible parent".
As the others have said though, you do not have to enter into or rely to this question.
2 months is nothing.
what will it take for you to leave our daughter alone with me?"
Would be something along the lines of "when you have proven you are a sober & responsible parent".
As the others have said though, you do not have to enter into or rely to this question.
2 months is nothing.
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Two months full of quacking, at that. You don't have to respond to him at all. He can take his requests to the court.
However, if you do feel the need to acknowledge him (I say poo on that, btw), No. Nonononono. No. As Recovering2 said, "No" is a complete sentence.
However, if you do feel the need to acknowledge him (I say poo on that, btw), No. Nonononono. No. As Recovering2 said, "No" is a complete sentence.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,062
Hey Elis
Personally, I would not answer any of those questions about rearranging visitation terms. You have a court order on your side. Period. You stick to that order like glue. He keeps acting the fool by not cooperating as they ordered ~ that means he is VOLUNTARILY giving up parenting time.
If he wants to petition for unsupervised visitation, then you cannot do much about that, but make him file the motion for that change.
If he does file that motion, (which I doubt he will) The Court (in my recent experience seeing a friend go through this) may want details about the current supervised visitation schedule and whether it not he is living up to the current schedule and also wanted to hear from the supervisors... They were approved by the Court as supervisors I am assuming...
He is relinquishing his parenting time for god knows what silly reasons he may offer. The Court will likely not look favorably on that...
I wouldn't give it another worry. Keep your detailed records as you have been; they are invaluable!! And stick to the Court Order so you do not set an undesirable precedence otherwise in the Courts eyes.
It'll be alright!!
Personally, I would not answer any of those questions about rearranging visitation terms. You have a court order on your side. Period. You stick to that order like glue. He keeps acting the fool by not cooperating as they ordered ~ that means he is VOLUNTARILY giving up parenting time.
If he wants to petition for unsupervised visitation, then you cannot do much about that, but make him file the motion for that change.
If he does file that motion, (which I doubt he will) The Court (in my recent experience seeing a friend go through this) may want details about the current supervised visitation schedule and whether it not he is living up to the current schedule and also wanted to hear from the supervisors... They were approved by the Court as supervisors I am assuming...
He is relinquishing his parenting time for god knows what silly reasons he may offer. The Court will likely not look favorably on that...
I wouldn't give it another worry. Keep your detailed records as you have been; they are invaluable!! And stick to the Court Order so you do not set an undesirable precedence otherwise in the Courts eyes.
It'll be alright!!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 235
I think you are asking what the courts would want to see. IMO That would depend on the rationale for you getting supervised visitation. If it has anything to do with drugs and alcohol, he is going to have to first file for a change in visitation and second, show proof he is in some type of recovery program with some time sober. Will he be able to do those two things? Mine would just think the filing on his own was too much work let alone actually think to get documentation if he ever showed up to an AA meeting.
As for you, keep documenting, withdrawing and setting boundaries. Best wishes!
As for you, keep documenting, withdrawing and setting boundaries. Best wishes!
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