Watching a good friend go down...

Old 08-19-2013, 10:40 PM
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Watching a good friend go down...

I have an amazing, beautiful, supportive friend. She has major depression and self esteem issues. We were drinking buddies for years. Then a few years ago I noticed that she was turning into a different person when she drank. I told her the first time it happened and that she hurt my feelings, and SHE was offended and angry at ME. She planned to kill herself on the night I threw her a birthday party at my house. She told me this after the party.
When drunk (nearly every night sometimes): She says mean things, she eats everything in sight, she forgets to pay her tabs, she falls down, locks herself out of her apartment all the time, she'd call me in the middle of the night and I'd pick up, worried, and she'd slur into the phone indecipherable things. It chilled me to the core. One night I saw that her phone was calling me yet again. I decided not to answer it because I had to get up early to work and her calls usually disturbed me and made me restless. Then she called over and over. When I picked up it was another friend of ours saying that my friend was in very bad shape and they were going to call an ambulance.
Soon after, we confronted her and told her her drinking was out of control. She quieted down for a while and then got right back to her old ways. She evades me, knowing that I'll be honest with her. But she's hurt me so much that I feel less and less like confronting her to repeat my concerns for her health.
Now her blood pressure is through the roof. She was taken to the ER during a hospital visit for another reason because they found her blood pressure was so high. She has rapidly gained weight. She doesn't look or act like the woman I knew. Her lips turn blue when she drinks and she wheezes. She recently fell down in the bar and twisted her ankle badly. I think she is worth so much more than this and I hate to see someone as elegant and wonderful as she really is lose her dignity this way, and put herself at such risk.
She is avoiding me like the plague. I keep trying to have dinner with her. She bears a grudge and doesn't want to talk to me about her drinking because she thinks my concerns are about my issues with my alcoholic parents. (I told her I couldn't be around her when she was drunk anymore because it was hurting me and yes it did remind me of my alcoholic parents, and now I'm the bad guy?)
About two months ago, I quit drinking and have been using this site for support. I quit for my own reasons.
I want to be there for my friend. I fear for her life, and I fear that she doesn't value herself enough to save herself.
I do not know what to do with all of this information. I feel like I am watching a train wreck.
Thanks for your patience with this long post.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:13 PM
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Very sorry to hear your distress. I'm not sure what it is that you're supposed to do for your friend. Sounds to me that you have done what you can. Seems that you can't fix stupid.

My experience is, YOU can't fix a drunk either. That is up to them. I know how if feels to watch a loved one wreck their life with booze. I watch my wife do it most nights every week. We fight every time I bring it up. So, too often I don't bring it up - Just so I can enjoy a night of peace. I think she truly believes that I don't know she's been drinking sometimes. She always brags about how smart and righteous I am, but then expects me to be an idiot about her drinking.

You friend is lucky to have you, but I'm afraid that if she can't see that, or give herself even the slightest amount of self-worth to care to change... She's lost. I don't know how to show that to a drunk. Again, they have to come to that understanding on their own. I hope you find a way to get through to her. If you do, let me know so I can try it with my AW.

This seems to be my only real outlet, as I live in a small town, and although many know of my wife's issues, I find it difficult to talk to anyone about it. Personal and all. This is a good place to let it out - To say what you need to say and find some experienced poor souls who have been down the same path.

I feel for you. Your friend causes her own suffering. You suffer because you care for her. Never fair. I wish you could just hold up a mirror and show them what they've become and what kind of a person they turn into when drunk. We both know it doesn't work that way.

I guess detachment is the way to handle it. I'm trying this myself. Again, hard to master and sometimes it isn't practical. I get most depressed when I resign myself to just accepting the fact that she loves to drink and thinks that I'm making a huge deal about nothing. Suppose that if I'll let her, she'll always be a drunk and happy to be one. Kills me when my daughter sees. it. Always.

Argh!!!

Take care of yourself. I hope you come out of this a happy person. Wouldn't your friend be such a huge success if they could take the control back. My wife would be, and I'd be so proud of her. Wow, If only...
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:30 PM
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Hi and welcome to SR, Plenny. I am on my phone, so I won't attempt to type out everything I'm thinking, but I know that someone else will come along soon to reply. They will likely say it much more eloquently than I can from this tiny keyboard. We are here for you!
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:12 AM
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Hello Plenny, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. It is so painful to watch someone we care about be so self destructive. You can see how twisted her thinking is in that she told you she would kill herself on the night you threw her a birthday party--just because she would 'show you'.

It sounds as though you and her other friends have tried to help her in the past. Perhaps form the same group again and try again, but really--she isn't going to change until she is ready.

One thing I want to assure you of--you are not the bad guy. You are just someone who has healthy boundaries "sorry, I will not be spending time with you when you are drunk". This in no way, shape, or form makes you evil, heartless, or cruel. So please do not accept the guilt trip on which she is trying to send you.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:36 AM
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Completely echoing the reply of Hydrogirl and want to reinforce that change will not come until the addict wants to change & that you are not the "bad guy" in this situation so unpack those bags 'cause you are not needing to get on that train to "guiltsville".

Sending Divine Light to give you strength... take care of you!
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:50 AM
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Sorry for your pain and your friend. It's SO SO SO hard to watch someone drown and you can't do a thing
I have a friend like this who is a coke addict. I've had to detach from her over and over and she will stop using, then goes back to it.
And here's a real kicker, I've not spoke to her in 3 months and she showed up at my house the other day to tell me her Mom just won over 2 million in the lottery and she was given a 100 grand. I suspect this will be her death sentence.

Just detach and wish them the best, all u can do
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Summerpeach View Post

Just detach and wish them the best, all u can do
this is easier said then done....but does help

please try a 12 step program like Al anon...this will help alot...
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:29 AM
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Thanks everyone so much. I really have been questioning whether the things I've said were wrong, it's all to easy for me to accept that I'm the bad guy. But inside I know I'm right to defend myself and tell her. I have yet again attempted to make a dinner date with my friend tonight, and I'd like to check in (a friend of ours talked to her recently about this), and see if she's seen a doctor, gone to a meeting (my friend sent her to moderation management -- which frustrates me so much), or progressed at all. If she doesn't like what I have to say again tonight, or treats me like an attacker or an inconvenience, this just may be it.
Thank you all for your support!!!

Xoxoxo
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Plenny View Post
If she doesn't like what I have to say again tonight, or treats me like an attacker or an inconvenience, this just may be it.
Hi Plenny,
Wanted to lend my support to you in this sad situation. Be prepared for your friend to treat you as the enemy when you set these limits. Anything that comes between an alcoholic and their drink can be seen this way. Try not to take it personally, hard though that is. You should not feel guilty for taking care of yourself, ever.

And I second (or third) the Alanon recommendation - be it meetings, or reading the literature - I found it very helpful in learning to detach from my loved one's downward spiral.

Good luck,
SQ
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:52 PM
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I see that you have gotten some great advice since last night, Plenny. I think the biggest thing right now is what has already been mentioned: your friend is going to treat you like the enemy because she feels her drinking is being threatened. You are not doing anything wrong, and have nothing for which you should feel guilty. This is just normal alcoholic modus operandi, all par for the course.

Detachment will probably be very good for you remain friends with this girl, but still protect yourself and your boundaries. It can't hurt to state what your boundaries are, but that you are still there for her. Let her know that, should she ever decide to seek help, that you will be there for moral support. That you only want the best for her, but that you must make sure that you stay healthy, and being around her when she is drinking is not acceptable. You are not abandoning her, but simply loving her from a distance. This is so hard, but we will always be here to answer your questions and provide support.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:52 PM
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I had the same problem with a male friend. I did my best to help but figured out I cant help him, HE is the one who has to help himself and he doesnt seem interested in that. At least not yet. He hasnt hit bottom but he most be really close.

I just had to stop contact with him, which was hard to do, the first time I've ever had to do that with anyone, drunk or not. I dont think you will get anywhere with this woman, it's she that has to recognize her problem and then decide to do something about it.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:52 PM
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Dinner cancelled two nights in a row. Oh well. Hopefully will be able to talk soon. You know I'll be back with questions!
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:03 PM
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The friend just ended our friendship. Because she's been projecting at me and blaming me for everyone knowing what a drunk she is. She thinks I am the only one concerned because I'm the only one that spoke up, and now that other people notice she thinks it's because I've been running around telling everyone. Not because she's been running around pi$$ yourself drunk nearly every day, putting herself in danger and all that. It's clearly my fault.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:52 AM
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Plenny,

Very similar happened to me. Before I knew of her drinking, she was such a good friend. We had great times together, great laughs and talked about everything. One night it became apparent she had a drinking problem and from then on things just gradually changed. Her attitude towards me, she evaded any reasonably questions I had of concern for her, she'd ring me and leave ambiguous messages leaving me worried about her then would ignore my return call. Our friendship was up and down for a couple of months before she ended our friendship and pinned all blame on me. I was the reason she drank, no-one had ever treated her as bad as I had, etc, etc.

Only through reading on here did I come to terms with what was happening. She probably felt ashamed of her behaviour and with me around they would always be someone that wants her to stop drinking and want her to be responsible for her actions. Her ability to drink in comfort was no longer the same because I wanted her to stop killing herself. I never actually questioned her about her drinking, just her actions on the following days after an episode which she would evade so well. So she made a decision and alcohol came before me.

I haven't heard from her for about 4 months and have no idea how she is getting on.

I read a quote that hit home on this forum a few days back from a recovering alcoholic who wanted to contact a old friend who they had pushed away ; "I suppose I got what I wanted, the one person out of my life that wanted me to stop drinking"

It's a horrible disease that has robbed plenty of people of wonderful friends/partners/family members
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:16 AM
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Plenty,

There are so many here who understand. For some it's our spouses, for others parents, for other kids... But we all understand the pain. In my case it's my husband. He is everything I wanted when he's sober, nothing I even want to be near when he's not. It's terrible. It's insanely difficult to watch your mate progressively kill themselves. I dare say it's even harder when they "get sober" for a few months, turn back in to who you thought they were, and then spin on you and become the raging alcoholic again. My AH knows he has a terrible problem, can get 30, 60, 90 day ... Even six months, sober time and then will spend months and months sneaking drinks. It is so heartbreaking to watch, even when your friend realizes she has a problem she may not be able to get it right. Having a nearly unlimited supply of money makes it that much harder, trust me.

Everyone here is also right about boundaries. I am no good at making any that I stick to, but I am working with a therapist and G-d willing I am going to very soon. The boundaries are for YOU. If you chose to not take calls between 11pm and 6am, then that is a boundary that everyone, alcoholic or not, should respect. We all need out sleep, this is not unreasonable. I have set this boundary with everyone. (It's actually one I DO keep, huh..). With the exception of my mother, who is taking care of my 83 year old dad in poor health, I have even set my phone to not receive calls between those hours. The do not disturb function on my phone has saved me from many nights when AH made bad choices.

Be kind to yourself. What do they say, you didn't cause it and you cannot control it. I am going to check out alanon as soon as I recover from my surgery yesterday. I know I need it, FOR ME.

Best of luck for you.
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:01 AM
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Unindated your post really hit me hard. That's how I felt/feel about the former alkie in my life. He stressed me out so much that I had to cut contact with him totally. I just could not do it anymore. Gone are the times I'd try to be helpful and supportive, it just didnt work. I didnt know at the time that that is how it goes. You dont know the routine til you are hit with it and it hurts. I think I am the only one who ever wanted him to clean up his act. He chose beer over me. I have seen him at the beer store a few times since. There really isnt anything anyone can do till the drinker is ready to change.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:59 AM
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Thanks so much everyone. I hope this person can save herself. Since she won't let anyone else help.
The other problem still exists: what she's told everyone else. The thing is, lots of people have never seen the side of her I have. They buy what she says about me. It's one of my worst nightmares and the story of my life at the same time: not being able to represent myself.
Being scapegoated and judged. I understand I'm supposed to not care what people think of me and just go out there and be myself. But here I am.
It's a relief to be able to ignore her in public. If she even approached me now I'd be really angry because of how she broke things off. Watching her drink is now crossing the line into pitiful (in my eyes) and I've lost a lot of sympathy. I feel lighter and better without her.
But it's only half liberating.
I did the very last thing I felt I could do, for her and for me. I wrote to her sister, who lives in the same town we do. I felt that if she was going to remove me, then it didn't help that I was the one with all of the information. So I told her everything. She wrote back and thanked me. She concurred with my observations. Then she said she understood why I didn't want to be friends with her sister anymore. So I wrote back again, thanked her, and clarified that her sister had broken things off with me, for the purpose of pointing out that she seems to be removing people that care and sticking with the enablers. I never heard back. I hope I didn't offend her. But I also understand that the correspondence can't go on and on. Did I do the right thing?
I am so glad to have found this site and other people who know exactly what I'm going through. It's just amazing how this pattern repeats itself over and over throughout all of humanity. It really is a disease.
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:27 PM
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I'm sorry this happened to you. It's heart breaking to watch people we love kill themselves. The one thing I had to learn is that the A has the right to make their own decisions, even if they're bad ones. Your friend has decided to end the friendship, probably a bad decision, but it's hers to make. She has decided to continue drinking, nothing anyone can do about that.

My A villified me to everyone when he was active in his disease. Made me the bad guy, and that was incredibly hurtful. I was the one trying to save him! I finally had to completely detach. It didn't take long for others to see what I had been seeing all alone.

I really wouldn't contact the sister any further. It honestly isn't your place to discuss all this with family, again, it's her right to live her life how she chooses. It also keeps you enmeshed, and gives her another reason to blame you.

Keep your head up. You tried to be a good friend. Now that you're out of the picture, and she's still drinking, she isn't going to have you to blame. Her behavior will become more apparent to others. Find an AlAnon group and try some meetings. You will find alot of support for your situation there.
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Recovering2 View Post
I'm sorry this happened to you. It's heart breaking to watch people we love kill themselves. The one thing I had to learn is that the A has the right to make their own decisions, even if they're bad ones. Your friend has decided to end the friendship, probably a bad decision, but it's hers to make. She has decided to continue drinking, nothing anyone can do about that. My A villified me to everyone when he was active in his disease. Made me the bad guy, and that was incredibly hurtful. I was the one trying to save him! I finally had to completely detach. It didn't take long for others to see what I had been seeing all alone. I really wouldn't contact the sister any further. It honestly isn't your place to discuss all this with family, again, it's her right to live her life how she chooses. It also keeps you enmeshed, and gives her another reason to blame you. Keep your head up. You tried to be a good friend. Now that you're out of the picture, and she's still drinking, she isn't going to have you to blame. Her behavior will become more apparent to others. Find an AlAnon group and try some meetings. You will find alot of support for your situation there.
Thank you so much. It really means so much to have understanding. I'm finding it so much harder to navigate this detachment than even my own recovery. I suppose time will just let this unravel.
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