dandylion

Snood, that stuff is verbal abuse--bullying.Do you realize this--or does it just seem, to you, that this is just the "cost of doing business"? Perhaps you have become normalized to it??

dandylion

AnvilheadII

I know it's abnormal but do any of you find yourself putting up with this kind of thing?

you KNOW this is abnormal, why do YOU put up with it? that is all that really matters? why do YOU even stay in the same room to hear any of those horrid, demeaning statements above? people who love each other don't say that stuff. ever. your gentle precious ears should NEVER hear things like that...

BuffaloGal

I don't want to be separated, legally or otherwise, I just want my wife to behave better, as she once did.

This is the clearest description I've ever read of the point of view of the partner of the alcoholic (including me):

"[Codependents] hold fast to the conviction that their partner, who is inherently incapable of mutuality, empathy or unconditional love, will eventually turn a corner and become the type of person who will be motivated to unconditionally love, respect and care for them. Sadly, they end up waiting a very long time before learning that their hopes and desires never come to fruition. Codependents simply believe in the impossible. Even with mounting consequences, losses and feelings of desperation and isolation, codependents continue their pursuit of what they believe they deserve but can never seem to obtain. They are controlled by the analogous idea that the “carrot” they so ardently crave always seems within their grasp, but in all actuality is unattainable."

--Ross Rosenberg, The Human Magnet Syndrome: Why We Love People Who Hurt Us

Snood

Well, thank you once again, people.

Hammer: It's interesting that you mention BPD. This was the very diagnosis I ultimately received and the treatment (Schema Mode Therapy) made a huge difference. The cost? First marriage, several jobs, independence freedom - all for 26 years or so.

honeypig: It's just the way I do things Call me a control freak if you like (she often does) but the listing/chronicling thing works for me. It has done some good in my 'caretaker' role. The cussing list is part of a journal I've assembled for the last six years. Did she actually say that to me? I know she did, I know when, where and under what circumstances. Otherwise, I simply wouldn't believe it. Like most As (as I have seen from here) she will justify her behaviour by insisting on memories being correct. The lists stop me buying what was patently opposite in reality. By the same token, I'll never argue without the true facts.

Incidentally, the last thing you do to a BPD case is threaten to leave - that's immensely cruel. I've lost count of the number of times...

dandylion: 'Normalizing' the verbal abuse? I can't do that.

Mature reflection shows I'm already detaching. I'm in the kitchen, typing this at 3:55am while she sleeps upstairs. This wasn't a booze night, so the grief has been minimal. She's going to consult her daughter's doctor about the daughter being massively obese - I pointed out that the girl (29) is digging her grave with her teeth. She's part of the reason my wife drinks, I reckon.

Anyways, she's off on a 'carer break' shortly, 3 nights away, in a pretty, old building. I'm taking her in the car (170-mile trip). When I collect her on Friday, I'll drop her partway and go on to see my best mate (concert + overnight stay). She'll finish her trip on the train.

To be honest,I really don't know why I put up with the Evil Twin. I see my counsellor tomorrow, which is a great help.

Thanks again, folks

Hammer

Sure. Caught my eye on first pass. Very few acknowledge BPD, let alone do the work to recover. Actually I am quite impressed with you in that regard.

So what is up with attracting and fostering another personality disorder in the form of "her?" I would think of all people you would know what you were dealing with, if not in advance, at least early on and in "real time."

Mrs. Hammer seems to come close what is often called "BPD Traits." Alcohol, Addict, Cutter, Eating Disorder. So I have acquired my knowledge on the fly. Most of us "NONs" (term for partners of BPD) have No Idea what we are dealing with at the start and often bail out when we do.

But You? She is clearly at least one form of PD, no? What drew you to this and why do stick around for more of it?

Snood

Interesting insight, Hammer.

I presented with anxiety and agoraphobia at age 21. A lot of tranquillisers and off diagnoses later, BPD was finally diagnosed. At one stage, I could barely leave the house. Four years with the new shrink helped fix me. I use valium very, very rarely now.

I know my wife when we were 17 and 18 respectively. I always thought she was 'a cut above' and was amazed when she made a pass at me over the 'net.

She isn't BPD, it's a matter of fact. I knew she'd suffered a brief episode of mental illness in the USA. Former hubby had a habit of clearing off when the family was moving home. Add her father's dying (liver cancer), an earthquake and her giving up smoking and it was a recipe for disaster. She refused serious anti-psychotics and was soon back among her brood.

As an aside, I'm convinced that daughter saw the attention Mum was getting and 'developed' schizophrenia. Fifteen years on, it's still there - and suspiciously inconsistent.

In one respect, I'm qualified to say these things. On the basis of 'physician heal thyself', I went as far as Master of Science level in psychology. I can 'out-shrink' any GP, and give most psychs a run for their money.

I spoke to Julie, my counsellor, this afternoon. She's detecting a change, inasmuch as I'm suspicious that my wife saw me as an escape route, from her stupid 'kids' and the husband who went on to bankrupt the family.

Now, I'm beginning to admit to myself that the initial 'I Love You's were a sham, born of her desperation. I know how I'd like things to go but don't think it'll happen. I also admit to wanting to prepare a bit of a sting for her...I've been 'good' for over two years now, for very little reward.

I'll be chatting to my pal/backer at weekend, while she's off for the 'carer break'. Bit of peace for a change

Snood

So, I mentioned 'peace' and am getting more than I bargained for.

On Tuesday, we set off at 12:30 - only half an hour late (good for us). She was fractious because the place we'd chosen for lunch wasn't on the main road.

Lunch was good, and we went to look around the local market (her choice).

The 'nice' didn't last long - she was getting in a temper again because we were running late.

When we arrived, her new friend was there...she said that as someone hadn't turned up, I could stay as well. My wife pointed out that I hadn't packed anything, and that I had other things to do (fair comment, actually). Besides, I hardly felt all that welcome.

So, there she is, having a carer break, with her new friend, and at least two little green glass chums (the remainder at home suggests three bottles) - and she and friend were heading for the pub later. She's actually at an abbey, surrounded by monks and students.

For my part, I've driven over 180 miles. I went back to the home town and arrived in time to shoot a couple of 10-spot rifle targets. I acquired a McD's at 10pm and went home.

Her closing words were interesting. In the room, a quick peck on the lips (I did the pecking) and, "Do you want me to see you out?" Er, yeah...I just said, "Whatever you'd like to do."

Then, it was' "enjoy the peace, I'll give you a call."

No call. I sent a text at 02:36am. From her? Not a word, by phone, text, e-mail or anything. That's 33 hours.

I'm willing to bet that her silly daughter has been calling and texting every half hour as usual.

I get the cruel treatment - perhaps because I won't be arriving to pick her up as early as she'd like. So, maybe she's smashed, maybe she's met a man, maybe she's having a lesbian encounter, maybe she's dead...I have no idea.

I really don't deserve this

foppish1

Then, it was' "enjoy the peace, I'll give you a call."

No call. I sent a text at 02:36am. From her? Not a word, by phone, text, e-mail or anything. That's 33 hours.

I'm willing to bet that her silly daughter has been calling and texting every half hour as usual.

I get the cruel treatment - perhaps because I won't be arriving to pick her up as early as she'd like. So, maybe she's smashed, maybe she's met a man, maybe she's having a lesbian encounter, maybe she's dead...I have no idea.

I really don't deserve this

Whoa! Gosh, one minute you're looking forward to peace and quiet- the next, you think she's fooling around. I think you should redouble your efforts with your counselor, snood.

If she's at a monastery, and at a carer's retreat, she's probably discouraged from outside contact. Please enjoy the peace you have for a bit and quit thinking about her.

foppish1

To be more specific, I think you're half the problem, mate.

Snood

Pardon my paranoia. Turns out the mobile signal is desperately poor.

Snood

Just returned after doing this...

Went to collect wifey from carer break.
Took her to local town.
Realised we were too late to make the train in time (yes, my fault)
Took her back home (200 mile round trip so far)
Was criticised for my driving and forbidden to overtake any trucks.
Did another 100 miles to a rock gig-got in halfway through
Another 17 miles to friend's house to stay the night.

Last night, decision on whether to stay was given to stepdaughter - she stayed.

Today, moans about the smell in the house - the cat has peed on the sofa. Entirely unreasonable demands to have the sofa collected for disposal - on a Sunday.

Post booze, I got more grief about the sofa, then it was checking whether I was doing the banking/accounts correctly.

Then, a barrage of personal abuse (unprintable), she hit me on the forearm and said, post-break, "We have to split up."

More abuse about mentioning drink again, told to "F**k o**"

And I'm half the problem? Right.

As I'm feeling now, I've been 'good' for over two years - this was a pissed-up rant too far.

We'll see.

PS: I also 'won' a compound bow on eBay - my mate will collect it. She is unaware.

honeypig

I'd have to agree with this.^^

It seems that you get something out of playing the "victim" and engaging/aggravating the behavior, snood. It seems that you are way more vested in being "right" than in making any real changes in yourself or your life.

Ask yourself if you seriously want help, if you truly want to change your life, or if you are hell bent on your AW giving you something you feel she owes you b/c YOU are RIGHT and SHE is WRONG. Good luck w/that if it's the latter.

To me, the the answer looks a bit unclear. Hope it's clearer to you.

Snood

Thanks, Honeypig. I must, however, disagree.

What could I possibly get out of engaging/aggravating her behaviour?

It was a typical scenario, ending in my getting post-booze flak as usual.

She was effectively seeking questionable financial transactions - there aren't any. She was verbally - and physically abusive. Though she strongly denies it, I've been 'good' for more than two years.

Let's put it this way, if your partner was to suggest you have a heart attack, "like your father did." before telling you to "F**k O**", I very much doubt you'd say, "Oh, must be my fault then. OK."

She even alleges that I exacerbate her drinking. This is not so.

By the way, after deaf & dumb breakfast, she's been fairly pleasant today - not a word about last night.Oh, must be my fault then. OK.

Romans

I've been in Al-anon since 1980. I heard in some of the meetings that if you've been married to an alcoholic, you have a greater chance of becoming one yourself. It sounds like that is true for your wife. I was the opposite. Alcohol has never done for me what it does for some people. For that I am thankful.

BoxinRotz

My AH said this to me recently... Oh, I'd say weeks after his motorcycle accident that he blamed on me and I was no where near, around or ON the bike when it happened. But he did tell me, YOU make my drinking so much worse than it is.

He could have literally picked me up and body slammed me because it threw me way off! I had to sit and think about WTF he just said and ya know, there was some truth to it. SOME. Not a lot but some.

He would drink and I would sit in total disbelief. Angry that he was doing this and the fights were on like we were off to the races. I would do or say anything to get him to stop and it only made it worse. It was not until I detached that I could possibly sit in the same room and think... drink up buddy! Can't wait for you to pass out. (he doesn't pass out though, he keeps drinking and drinking and drinking til he's almost to a too tired toddler stage and he doesn't want to go to sleep because he's afraid he'll miss something.)

So now, when the vodka starts messing with his head, his insecurities are out in full view and he's got a wild boar hair up his ass, I calmly tell him NOT to ruin his buzz on me by picking a fight and he walks away. Nothing else is said.

So, maybe, she could be right in that you aggravate her drinking to *some* degree, whether it's with a snide comment or something you do when she's drinking. No one but you knows what that is. So maybe, you can figure out what that is to see if you can pin point it and go about changing it for your peace of mind and not hers. Believe me, I wouldn't do anything to make Mr. PartyofOne more comfortable in drinking. But I can make it more pleasant for ME by detaching from HIS alcoholism. And it affects him because as soon as his APE is out, he's on his own.

jaynie04

I think that is a good question to ask yourself....you've convinced me she's a PITA. So I guess now it's up to you to decide what course of action you are going to follow.

honeypig

Her actions are NOT your fault. The fact that you stay there after being treated like this, apparently over a long period of time, IS your fault, or rather, your choice.

As I said before, you seem to have little interest in doing anything to help yourself and only come here to complain about how awful your life is. Much like an alcoholic, you will not change until YOU make up your mind to do so, despite what anyone here tells you. THAT is your fault.

You DO have choice in this matter. You do not choose to exercise it. That is a choice in and of itself and speaks louder than any itemized photo of bottles in the trash or numbered list of horrible things your AW has done to you.

Snood

Well, the night after yet another rant...

Doc found her blood pressure is up (155/89) yet still she drinks. The BP medication was doubled recently.

So do I just ignore 6 bottles in 4 days and let her go downhill?

More abuse tonight - I'm not doing her US tax return quick enough.

So do I invite her to drop dead of an infarct, like her Mum did? Or should it be liver cancer, like her Dad?

BoxinRotz

Why are you doing her taxes? Let her do them. She's a big girl. Remember... if you drop dead, she'll have to do them herself now won't she?

Let Go and Let God. Get out of her way. I'm sure she knows she drank 6 bottles in 4 days. She is not ready to stop. If she goes down hill, that's one less person you have to worry about because she isn't worried about herself. Now is she?

Snood

Wise words, BoxinRotz, thank you.

I'm doing the taxes 'cos I promised to and I don't break promises. That said, I've just had her telling me she'll get her own laptop and do them herself...probably wouldn't have the first clue.

= more stress = higher BP = more anger -= more nastiness. Isn't she lucky that I'm patience personified?