Progress?
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
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Progress?
After initial couple of post a few months ago, I feel like I'm not much further ahead. I still have not made it to an Al Anon meeting, Have not discussed AH's drinking with him, and I have made no real plans for change. On the plus side, my summer break is over and I am back to work with the best group of First Graders that I have ever worked with. I am also surrounded by lots of supportive friends. Perhaps this will be less scarey now that I have friends around that I can talk to. AH has not been drinking quite as much, however he is still drunk by the end of the day. Not passing out, but it seems to go in cycles. I'm supposed to be OK with it as long as he is not nasty. I am just to the point where I really don't want to be around him at all wheen he drinks, which starts every day at 1:00 pm.
Friday was our 21st wedding anniversary and of course he was lit by the time we went out to dinner. Somehow, his convoluted monologue arrived at a point that he thought calling me stocky would be a compliment. Now I am far from having model proportions, however, stocky does not describe me at all. When I brought it up the next day to see if he even remembered, then I was "bitchy" for mentioning it, and he was just being painfully honest.
So done!
Friday was our 21st wedding anniversary and of course he was lit by the time we went out to dinner. Somehow, his convoluted monologue arrived at a point that he thought calling me stocky would be a compliment. Now I am far from having model proportions, however, stocky does not describe me at all. When I brought it up the next day to see if he even remembered, then I was "bitchy" for mentioning it, and he was just being painfully honest.
So done!
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
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Yurt, I was posting on a different thread yesterday and thinking how often people seem to come here in a moment of crisis, talking about the craziness in their lives and how intolerable it is. As the replies on the thread start to accumulate, advising the OP to work on his/her own issues, to start down the path towards a different life, the OP will gradually begin doing a big 180, ending up defending the very person and situation they found so unbearable at the beginning of the thread, and resisting, if not outright refusing, any changes that are advised...
I've done this myself also, so present company is not excepted!
Anyway, the revelation I had (and this is hardly an original thought, but it seemed so to me at the time) was that, at least up to a point, we are pi$$ed off about our situations but more afraid to make a change than to continue suffering as we are. Until we perceive that there is more to be gained by making a change than there is to be lost by NOT making that change, we will do nothing.
The question I am beginning to ask myself with increasing frequency is "what do I have to gain from NOT changing this situation that I'm unhappy with?". Sometimes the answers are surprising. Sometimes the answer makes me realize how silly it is for me not to have taken action yet. Sometimes the answer makes me realize that no, I'm truly not ready to make the change at this point.
In your shoes, Yurt, I guess that's what I'd ask myself--what do I have to gain from not getting to Alanon, from not discussing the alcohol issue w/AH, from not making real plans to change my life? The answers might help you make the next move.
Wishing you strength and clarity.
I've done this myself also, so present company is not excepted!
Anyway, the revelation I had (and this is hardly an original thought, but it seemed so to me at the time) was that, at least up to a point, we are pi$$ed off about our situations but more afraid to make a change than to continue suffering as we are. Until we perceive that there is more to be gained by making a change than there is to be lost by NOT making that change, we will do nothing.
The question I am beginning to ask myself with increasing frequency is "what do I have to gain from NOT changing this situation that I'm unhappy with?". Sometimes the answers are surprising. Sometimes the answer makes me realize how silly it is for me not to have taken action yet. Sometimes the answer makes me realize that no, I'm truly not ready to make the change at this point.
In your shoes, Yurt, I guess that's what I'd ask myself--what do I have to gain from not getting to Alanon, from not discussing the alcohol issue w/AH, from not making real plans to change my life? The answers might help you make the next move.
Wishing you strength and clarity.
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yes, honeypig. We don't change until the pain of changing is less fearful than the pain of remaining the same. (the catipillar/butterfly story, I think).
Also it is a behavioral "law" that we will expend more effort of avoid pain than to gain pleasure. I think this might explain why so many adjust and adjust and adjust to the current pain than to make the steps toward more reward.
dandylion
I guess that this ties i n to the alcoholic reaching "bottom"---when the pain of drinking is to the point that sobriety looks like the only relief.
Also it is a behavioral "law" that we will expend more effort of avoid pain than to gain pleasure. I think this might explain why so many adjust and adjust and adjust to the current pain than to make the steps toward more reward.
dandylion
I guess that this ties i n to the alcoholic reaching "bottom"---when the pain of drinking is to the point that sobriety looks like the only relief.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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First - Progress not Perfection.
But you are a first grade teacher? One of my Very Best Alanannies is a 70 sometime retired first grade teacher, (I call the very senior Alanon women my Nannies
), and one of my best little buddies in another meeting is about a 25 y.o. first grade teacher. I think we get to see her again as soon as school starts. So that is a funny range to me. But overall it gives me a fondness for 1st grade teachers.
But since you are reporting in, let us grade and review your work?
Just having fun -- you being a school teacher and all . . .
NEEDS IMPROVEMENT
(no explanation needed, is there?)
SATISFACTORY PROGRESS. (HIS drinking is not YOUR problem. Save that for some intervention type thing, with lots of planning and support in place, jmho.)
SATISFACTORY PROGRESS (best to get your side really clean -- FIRST, and then figure out Who, What, When and Where.)
SATISFACTORY PROGRESS (I am also blessed to have Very Good folks to work with and Wonderful Alanon support)
SATISFACTORY PROGRESS (make sure the folks that you take advice from actually understand alcoholism.)
NEEDS IMPROVEMENT -- (yeah, I know, I know. We ALL track ALL the details. That is what *we* do. But *we* cannot get better watching them.)
SATISFACTORY PROGRESS
(same place I am at with my Mrs. Hammer, as far as mental illness issues since rehab. I understand she has problems, but keep them in your own lane and no nasty to me or the kids.)
SATISFACTORY PROGRESS
(Really, this is good. You know to get you out and stay out the mess. Super job.)
NEEDS IMPROVEMENT
(They call this part "boundaries." Looks maybe like -- If he is drunk = you are a No Go. )
NEEDS IMPROVEMENT
(Time for MAJOR detachment. In my case, she had been only to go three sentences before the insults start. So I ensure no conversation goes beyond three sentences)
NEEDS IMPROVEMENT (btw, that is on your part. If you keep going back for more of this crap . . . you are going to get more of this crap.
It is over whenever you say so.
=================
Learning goals for the next semester:
Study hard, go to the learning lab class (Alanon), and report back often.
But you are a first grade teacher? One of my Very Best Alanannies is a 70 sometime retired first grade teacher, (I call the very senior Alanon women my Nannies
), and one of my best little buddies in another meeting is about a 25 y.o. first grade teacher. I think we get to see her again as soon as school starts. So that is a funny range to me. But overall it gives me a fondness for 1st grade teachers.But since you are reporting in, let us grade and review your work?
Just having fun -- you being a school teacher and all . . .
Originally Posted by Yurt 
After initial couple of post a few months agbo, I feel like I'm not much further ahead.
I still have not made it to an Al Anon meeting,
I still have not made it to an Al Anon meeting,
(no explanation needed, is there?)
Have not discussed AH's drinking with him,
I have made no real plans for change.
On the plus side, my summer break is over and I am back to work with the best group of First Graders that I have ever worked with.
I am also surrounded by lots of supportive friends. Perhaps this will be less scarey now that I have friends around that I can talk to.
AH has not been drinking quite as much, however he is still drunk by the end of the day. Not passing out, but it seems to go in cycles.
I'm supposed to be OK with it as long as he is not nasty.
(same place I am at with my Mrs. Hammer, as far as mental illness issues since rehab. I understand she has problems, but keep them in your own lane and no nasty to me or the kids.)
I am just to the point where I really don't want to be around him at all when he drinks, which starts every day at 1:00 pm
(Really, this is good. You know to get you out and stay out the mess. Super job.)
Friday was our 21st wedding anniversary and of course he was lit by the time we went out to dinner.
(They call this part "boundaries." Looks maybe like -- If he is drunk = you are a No Go. )
Somehow, his convoluted monologue arrived at a point that he thought calling me stocky would be a compliment.
(Time for MAJOR detachment. In my case, she had been only to go three sentences before the insults start. So I ensure no conversation goes beyond three sentences)
Now I am far from having model proportions, however, stocky does not describe me at all. When I brought it up the next day to see if he even remembered, then I was "bitchy" for mentioning it, and he was just being painfully honest.
So done
=================
Learning goals for the next semester:
Study hard, go to the learning lab class (Alanon), and report back often.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear Yurt---technically, we are not supposed to take the stupid criticisms personally because this is just indicitive of their low self esteem and is just a "leveling" technique.BUT, I SWEAR, I don't think I could think of much else that would make me see RED as much as his "stocky" put down remark. Personally , I would probably become so incensed that I would regress into infantile behavior!!!!!
I would want to put posters of William Levy all over the bedroom.....and down the hall.....
All I am saying is....I soooo understand!!!
dandylion
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 407
OK Hammer, for the most part, I agree with your assessment, however, I have some questions...When I finally make that first step; going to an Al Anon meeting, I am going to have to explain what it is and why I am going. Which leads to a discussion about AH's drinking. It may also lead to a huge conflict, which I am dreading. Can anyone tell me how they initially informed their A's that they were going to get help for themselves? I seem to be tripping over this. I did look up the meetings in my area, and because I live in a very rural county, I will have to travel to the next town (about 20-30 minutes). There is an online meeting tomorrow night, that I am going to try to make. BTW, I thought your response was so "grade level appropriate", that I may print it out and reflect on it later when I am finally able to "graduate".
Dandylion, I was so flabbergasted by the retort, that I did not really take it seriously. It was just another example of the BS that I have experienced this year. I laughed about it later with my daughter. I was just amazed that he would somehow consider it a compliment.
Dandylion, I was so flabbergasted by the retort, that I did not really take it seriously. It was just another example of the BS that I have experienced this year. I laughed about it later with my daughter. I was just amazed that he would somehow consider it a compliment.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New England
Posts: 350
Yurt, I took a long lunch the one time I went to a meeting. I didn't (and don't) want to get into the discussion about Alanon - I don't want to see the eye rolling, and hear the, "whatever," that will be the response. I would also love to hear from others how they've dealt with this. I don't particularly want to lie to avoid the BS, but I just don't wanna hear it.
Dandylion, I googled William Levy. I am in favor of the posters.
Dandylion, I googled William Levy. I am in favor of the posters.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear Yurt, I just re-read your past threads--to refresh myself with your story. My heart goes out to you because it appears that you and your daughter have been living in emotional abuse and are very intimidated by your husband. I think you have normalized to this and may not see it for what it is.
Yurt, you don't have to live like this--and your daughter is being affected. We adults almost always underestimate the affect on the children.
Please get some help and support for yourself. I don't know if you are afraid of him becoming physically aggressive to you. In any case, I suggest that you go to a safe place (away from the house) and call your local D V organization and ask to speak with a counselor. Your identity is completely protected and you will not be un der any pressure. Your situation will not be unique to them and they will be prepared to h elp you.
I get the image of you (and daughter) living in unhappiness and fear in a prison with invisible bars.
You deserve so much more than this.
You are not alone. We will walk with you.
dandylion
Yurt, you don't have to live like this--and your daughter is being affected. We adults almost always underestimate the affect on the children.
Please get some help and support for yourself. I don't know if you are afraid of him becoming physically aggressive to you. In any case, I suggest that you go to a safe place (away from the house) and call your local D V organization and ask to speak with a counselor. Your identity is completely protected and you will not be un der any pressure. Your situation will not be unique to them and they will be prepared to h elp you.
I get the image of you (and daughter) living in unhappiness and fear in a prison with invisible bars.
You deserve so much more than this.
You are not alone. We will walk with you.
dandylion
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by Yurt
OK Hammer, for the most part, I agree with your assessment, however, I have some questions...When I finally make that first step; going to an Al Anon meeting, I am going to have to explain what it is and why I am going.
For a comparison (nothing about your situation) Mrs. Hammer was always good with me in Alanon, but went absolutely berserk about our daughter going to Alateen. She is somewhat better, on and off, about it now. Mostly a tremendous guilt thing, I guess, looking back.
Which leads to a discussion about AH's drinking. It may also lead to a huge conflict, which I am dreading.
Can anyone tell me how they initially informed their A's that they were going to get help for themselves?
I seem to be tripping over this. I did look up the meetings in my area, and because I live in a very rural county, I will have to travel to the next town (about 20-30 minutes). There is an online meeting tomorrow night, that I am going to try to make. BTW, I thought your response was so "grade level appropriate", that I may print it out and reflect on it later when I am finally able to "graduate".
Alanon is something you GO DO.
Not talk and think about doing.
GO DO. (You will be fine.
)
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
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Hammer and DandyLion, I appreciate your concerns for me and my family.
Hammer, Yes; I am expected to "check in" if I expect to be late for work, or vary from my routine. Therefore, an explanation would need to be forthcoming. I am not inclined to lie, but I am not ready for the blast that will come when I explain that I am going to AlAnon. Because, of course, that is for family members of drunks, and he is not a drunk.
I know that I will have to face some unpleasantness at some point. Part of my problem is that I have spent the last 21 years avoiding it. I always backed down and let him have is way. Recently, I have found my voice a bit more, and I think he is surprised and maybe a bit threatened by it. My usual tactic is to retreat. Then he becomes overly sweet and tries to compensate for previous bad behavior. Seems to be happening this week after our anniversary dinner. Then I wait for the other shoe to drop. It eventually does. I guess that I also feel a great deal of guilt for thinking of leaving, as he is disabled. I would probably be able to support myself and our daughter (not in luxury as a teacher in Arizona!), but I don't think his disability check would take him very far.
DandyLion, my concern is greatest for my daughter, and I know that all of this is difficult for her. She just started driving this month and AH's favorite method of control is to threaten to revoke her driving privileges. I did convince him that he would destroy much of the progress that she has made for acquiring scholarships if this were to happen and he can't possibly follow through with his threats. He is now down to taking away her privileges one day at a time. One of my friends suggested that I come up with some positive actions instead of heavy handed discipline, so I am working on that.
I have also continued to talk with my male friend that I mentioned early on which has been very helpful. He is a counselor for elementary students in our district and works at my school once a week. We struck up a friendship last year and he asked me to write to him when he traveled to the East coast this summer. I know that several SR members cautioned me to tread carefully, and I have not crossed any boundaries. It is really a gift to know that one can have a friendship with a man and not necessarily have it become an intimate relationship. He gave me the phone number of a branch or our district health insurance company that deals with these issues. He also offered some suggestions that might help my daughter. It doesn't hurt that he is also good looking, intelligent and has a great sense of humor. I think I just need someone pleasant to talk to sometimes.
Just wanted to add that there is a meeting in the next town over tomorrow night. I am trying to figure out how to go about announcing that I will go. I attended/observed the online meeting tonight, and was not impressed. I think I need some real facetime.
Hammer,
I am sorry, but I am not understanding this. To whom do you have explain anything or why you are going? Hubby?
I know that I will have to face some unpleasantness at some point. Part of my problem is that I have spent the last 21 years avoiding it. I always backed down and let him have is way. Recently, I have found my voice a bit more, and I think he is surprised and maybe a bit threatened by it. My usual tactic is to retreat. Then he becomes overly sweet and tries to compensate for previous bad behavior. Seems to be happening this week after our anniversary dinner. Then I wait for the other shoe to drop. It eventually does. I guess that I also feel a great deal of guilt for thinking of leaving, as he is disabled. I would probably be able to support myself and our daughter (not in luxury as a teacher in Arizona!), but I don't think his disability check would take him very far.
DandyLion, my concern is greatest for my daughter, and I know that all of this is difficult for her. She just started driving this month and AH's favorite method of control is to threaten to revoke her driving privileges. I did convince him that he would destroy much of the progress that she has made for acquiring scholarships if this were to happen and he can't possibly follow through with his threats. He is now down to taking away her privileges one day at a time. One of my friends suggested that I come up with some positive actions instead of heavy handed discipline, so I am working on that.
I have also continued to talk with my male friend that I mentioned early on which has been very helpful. He is a counselor for elementary students in our district and works at my school once a week. We struck up a friendship last year and he asked me to write to him when he traveled to the East coast this summer. I know that several SR members cautioned me to tread carefully, and I have not crossed any boundaries. It is really a gift to know that one can have a friendship with a man and not necessarily have it become an intimate relationship. He gave me the phone number of a branch or our district health insurance company that deals with these issues. He also offered some suggestions that might help my daughter. It doesn't hurt that he is also good looking, intelligent and has a great sense of humor. I think I just need someone pleasant to talk to sometimes.
Just wanted to add that there is a meeting in the next town over tomorrow night. I am trying to figure out how to go about announcing that I will go. I attended/observed the online meeting tonight, and was not impressed. I think I need some real facetime.
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I suppose the control thing can be strange. Usually, around our house, I think she just does not even care.
A few Sundays ago I went to evening church 6 to 7, and then AA Open Meeting 7:30 to 8:30, and back home by 9:00. When I got home, she was exploding about where I had been. Very odd at times. I handed her phone to her when one of friends texted. She usually keeps it locked (talk about questionable behavior ). It was one of her gossip girls. They were talking about putting a PI or "cheaters" on me. I found it a little bit flattering. Did not figure she even cared about me, the way she generally treats me. If I go to Church and AA -- I must be up to something.
Of course one aspect of her mental illness is what they call projection. If she is making claims about me, it is usually the mirror. Means she is likely running around on me.
A few Sundays ago I went to evening church 6 to 7, and then AA Open Meeting 7:30 to 8:30, and back home by 9:00. When I got home, she was exploding about where I had been. Very odd at times. I handed her phone to her when one of friends texted. She usually keeps it locked (talk about questionable behavior
). It was one of her gossip girls. They were talking about putting a PI or "cheaters" on me. I found it a little bit flattering. Did not figure she even cared about me, the way she generally treats me. If I go to Church and AA -- I must be up to something. Of course one aspect of her mental illness is what they call projection. If she is making claims about me, it is usually the mirror. Means she is likely running around on me.
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Hammer,
I get the strange comments as well. After finishing dinner early a couple of Saturdays ago, I told AH that I was going to STAPLES to buy some ink and other items that I wanted for school/work. My daughter asked if she could accompany me and practice driving my car, so I said yes. AH looked at her and said that "OH, now you've ruined the date that your mom arranged."
Projecting? I just don't think so. I just can't imagine any women knocking down the door to get to an intoxicated, broken man with a meager disability check to live on. He has also implied that he would never be lonely as fit as he is (compared to stocky ol me)
Again, they are not beating down the door...
I get the strange comments as well. After finishing dinner early a couple of Saturdays ago, I told AH that I was going to STAPLES to buy some ink and other items that I wanted for school/work. My daughter asked if she could accompany me and practice driving my car, so I said yes. AH looked at her and said that "OH, now you've ruined the date that your mom arranged."
Projecting? I just don't think so. I just can't imagine any women knocking down the door to get to an intoxicated, broken man with a meager disability check to live on. He has also implied that he would never be lonely as fit as he is (compared to stocky ol me)
Again, they are not beating down the door...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
I follow. Yours sounds like trying to drag you down to manipulate and control. You are correct in that regard. You will likely have to break free to get better. Alateen may also be good for your daughter.
Mrs. Hammer's is a little more complex. Looks like something they call borderline, or at least borderline traits. In long term addictions there are often co-morbidity or dual problems. She has a much longer history than *just* alcohol. Add drugs, self-injury, eating disorder, on and on. Her stuff is so twisted around it is hard to even make sense.
Mrs. Hammer's is a little more complex. Looks like something they call borderline, or at least borderline traits. In long term addictions there are often co-morbidity or dual problems. She has a much longer history than *just* alcohol. Add drugs, self-injury, eating disorder, on and on. Her stuff is so twisted around it is hard to even make sense.
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