nbay2013

After reading this forum for a month, I realized something today. I was talking with a friend and she pointed out a habit I have. For a long time I always seem to preface or end a conversation about my EXAB with, "But you know...he really is a good guy; he's smart, he's funny..he CAN be kind" etc etc. She said, "You know Carrie, when you have a healthy relationship you shouldn't have to explain to people that he is REALLY IS a good guy. That probably is a big red flag."

That just floored me. I have been saying that to people and more importantly to myself for over two years. I would tell a story of his poor behavior or actions...and then say, "but he was probably drunk or that was during his depression or he was just two months sober....Normally he is a really good guy". And it occurred to me this is my denial. I have NEVER explained away a relationship (except for my parents...that's a clue) by always adding..."but really...they are normally great".

This happened when I was telling my friend that my EXAB after being sober for a couple months, asked me why I was so unable for forgive him. He said to me, "It's not like I beat you or murdered anyone". And I guess deep down inside I believed that absurd remark even though at the time, my reply was "Wow...physical abuse and murder. That's kind of setting the bar really low, don't you think?" Yeah, really snappy retort....but inside I guess I believed him.

I am wondering to my fellow SR members...how did you justify the fact that "He/She is really a good person" in spite of everything. Pity, high functioning, good job, sweet at times?

Thanks for letting me share my slow yet steady awareness of truth.

Seren

Hi nbay! Have you read the story about the 'intermittent chicken'.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...hick-en-2.html

This might explain some of it....that and a whole new level of denial we can get into.

I agree with your friend, you shouldn't have to constantly explain away someone else's behavior. Smart friend!

Tuffgirl

Ted Bundy had an education, a career, and very good looks. He was well liked and charming. He was also a serial killer. Just sayin'.

Thing is - I couldn't justify it after a while. That's the downside of breaking through your own denial. It forces you to be realistic. I decided I want to be in a relationship where I can say " he is really a good person all of the time".

P.S. This:

is the best he can do? The most he can offer? Hey, its not like I beat people or murder them, therefore I MUST be a good man? If it weren't so sad it would be hysterically funny.

nbay2013

Thanks Hydro...yes, intermittent conditioning, which leads to chasing the high and remembering when it was good.

amy55

My ex was a really nice person. He would do anything at all for anybody. He did all the grocery shopping, took the garbage out, did the wash, cleaned the house. All of that stuff.

I have been divorced from him since 12/2010. I still hear from other people what a nice person he was. Actually talked to my mom last week. I couldn't believe that she said to me that out of all her sons-in-law, she liked him the best. My other 2 sisters are still married and they are going to stay married. I just shook my head, and I agreed with her, yes, he was a really nice person, a really great person, as long as you did not have to live with him.

We also had the same group of friends, I agree with them also, but then I just add in that he was not nice to me.

I can still say a lot of nice things about him, because that "good person" is someone I did see. I also saw the "hurting" side of him.

So I don't know if it is that much of a "denial", if they were bad all the time, we wouldn't have been there that long.

The hardest part of leaving I think, was remembering all the "good", but also knowing that the "bad" came in the same package.

nbay2013

TuffGirl. Hey, it IS funny. I am a dark humor kind of woman, and the way you wrote it has me laughing out loud here. Really, if you can picture the scene when he said it. He delivered it with such hurt victimized goodness and sadness, with of course that perfect touch of malice. I just stared...silence (crickets) and then my well timed retort.

DesertEyes

My ex ( #2 ) is a wonderful lady. She visits friends when they are sick, fixes them meals, drives them to doctor apointments. She helps out at the local shelter, we had several women over the years who had no place to stay and the shelters were full. She spent time sponsoring women who were newly sober. She coached young-uns who were just starting out as runners with hopes of becoming marathoners. _Everybody_ loved her, _everybody_.

Except the nurse she physically attacked one day. Or the mail carrier, or the guy at a theater, or the coach at the gym, and probably more I never heard of.

My ex is an addict. Oh she is clean and sober from drugs and booze, but she switched to bulemia. She is _very_ smart, great sense of humour, she is kind most of the time. Except when she's had nothing to eat for 3 or 4 days, and has been over-exercising in order to feel the high of the adrenalin, and has been sucking caffeine at the rate of about a quart an hour to control the hunger pangs.

She is an amazing and wonderful lady to the whole world. Except those innocent bystanders that happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fortunately, none of them were hurt. There were other people present who were capable of containing the insane rage of an addict out of control. Did I mention she is Marine trained and a world class athlete? When she fires off in a rage it's a major production getting her down without anybody getting hurt. ( Okay, so I got a nasty bump on the back of my head and almost got a clavicle broke, but that was the worst of it )

My experience is that they really are Jekyl / Hyde type of people. What my sponsor says is that when those little hints of violence creep out it's _not_ a "red flag", it's a "milk carton flag". The universe is telling you that it is _your_ face that is going to show up on a milk carton one of these days.

Mike

NWGRITS

I was in an abusive relationship for five years (emotionally at first, but when he got.physical, I left.), and almost married him. I was talking to a friend once and kept saying "I love him, but..." or "He really is a good guy." My friend stopped me and asked "Who are you trying to convince, me or yourself?" Lightbulb moment. I felt so relieved to know that someone understood why I couldn't marry him. There shouldn't be any "buts" or other convincing statements like that.

On the other side of that, I don't think I've ever uttered those words about my AM. Nothing she does is ever for anyone else's benefit. She expects something out of every single thing she does. Don't be fooled by her seemingly overflowing heart or selfless charity.

Hammer

wow. I see you know Mrs. Hammer.

Too bad you did not stick around post-eating-disorder. Just gets more bizarre.

================

back to the start . . . .

Having been a major Public Relations agent for My Little Addict (I think I told more lies to cover her stuff than she told for herself), a BIG part of it is . . . . *us.* And in full truth (scary day here, huh?) A lot of that was driven my own self-image and denial.

Yunno what? Getting Better feels Better. I might just keep doing this.

Ipanema

Thanks for your post and I really identified with you. I have had many relationships as you described. I grew up thinking that all people had their good side and bad side. I was the one who got the bad side, i.e. parents, close relationships, neighbors, husband, etc. It has taken me years to see that I deserve to have relationships where I am not walking on egg shells all the time. Now I don't put up with the tempermental , the negative, the screamers, let alone the ones who everyone else thinks they are wonderful. I finally saw that I was allowed to see that side of these so called wonderful people because I was forced to deal with it in childhood. Thought it the norm. Now I can choose who to be around. Many times I don't choose to be around anyone and that's okay. After much abuse from those that 'loved me' but had underlying anger that had nothing to do with me, I have seen the light. I keep my distance from family, neighbors, coworkers (when I am working) that make me uncomfortable. Life is way to short. However, I am never unkind to them when they act up, just gracefully take off if I can. It has become important to me to continually develop tools to take good care of myself emotionally because I am challenged physically and that's all I can handle. God Bless! And thanks God for caller id as well!!!!!!

tomsteve

"how did you justify the fact that "He/She is really a good person" in spite of everything."

by living in denial. ihad low self esteem and thought I wasn't worth someone better.

" "It's not like I beat you or murdered anyone".
this statement is best followed by "yet."

NYCDoglvr

Wonderful post! Two major qualities of addiction (both alcoholism and codependency) are denial and rationalization. I was "Queen of Denial (de Nile, lol)" by saying well, he did this terrible thing but look at some of the wonderful things he's done. I ignored the fact that I was miserable most of the time, that nobody had ever said the abusive things to me that he did. That this was the worst relationship of my life. Thank god for Alanon!