LexieCat

And TG, yes, the "no relationships" concept really applies for the most part to new relationships. But they were already "exes" when she got sober this time. They had broken up. So I think this situation in many ways mirrors a new relationship--it is a question not of whether they should break up, but whether they put it back together before the proper groundwork has been done.

DreamsofSerenity

Crazed, I gotta hand it to you, you take all our feedback like a champ!

I think what Dandylion said made a lot of sense (about strong emotions being a trigger in new recovery). That made a lot of sense to me and answers your question about why you should not be in her life right now. She could be madly in love with you, and have all her strong emotions for you be nothing but positive, but it still might be a threat to her sobriety.

HUGS!!

HopefulmomtoD

edited .... changed my mind ... none of my business :-)

DreamsofSerenity

TG,

I honestly don't know. You might be right. I guess I am trusting what the program says because I do not have experience with getting sober from alcoholism myself. And I do see their relationship as kind of new because it was so tumultuous, and they split so many times.

The reason I asked Crazed that question is because I feel like what prevents him from giving her space is the fear she will no longer be a part of his life in the future. I feel like they are overly enmeshed and that enmeshment is not healthy for either one of them. I really feel like Crazed needs to first let her go to ever finally have her back. Of course my question was just hypothetical. I'm truly hoping there is option three: he can have her in his life sober.

And of course, I actually have no idea. This is just my gut feelings about what is going on based solely on his posts. If I came across as some sort of authority on recovery, I'm sorry. I have never known an alcoholic or addict who actually recovered.

dandylion

In recovery circles it is empirically considered that early recovery is the most vulnerable period for relationships. I don't think anyone would say it is impossible--just, like providing the most nutritive environment possible for the vulnerable embryonic sobriety.

dandylion

FireSprite

TG - I agree with a lot of your points, I think (for me) the relationship/waiting confusion is due to Craze's words/actions not lining up. He refers to her as an Ex but acts as though they are still in a relationship.

I also am not 100% sure that her sponsor IS putting demands or unnecessary pressure on their relationship..... we don't know what the GF is sharing with her sponsor that she ISN'T saying to Crazed OR that her interpretation of what she's being told is the reality, or, just her (or his?) interpretation. It feels an awful lot like Crazed is taking her recovery personally & is seeking absolution for his part in it.

Plus, with her history of issues that go beyond alcohol (eating disorder, etc) I wonder if that adds a level of intensity to her recovery that someone like me for instance, can't understand since I'm dealing with an A with more straight-forward addiction issues.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with ANY of us waiting it out - but I've never heard Crazed actually SAY that he IS....

Florence

Personally, hanging around the edges of her life, using the appearance of friendship towards an unstated but obvious goal of progressing to a romantic relationship, is shady, shady business. Further, knowing that she is in a vulnerable position makes it feel manipulative and coercive.

I'm not saying that your feelings for her aren't real, but surely, Crazed, you recognize that you are romanticizing a very toxic relationship and engaging in a lot of magical thinking about a distant, unlikely future. What would your life look like if it didn't revolve around a very sick person? Are you capable of being in a healthy relationship? Is she? If not, why would you do that to each other?

DreamsofSerenity

Firesprite made a great point, Crazed. Maybe going through the motions of being split up is not serving either one of you. Maybe it would be healthier (and easier) if you just said you were still a couple but were taking a long break while she works on recovery.

dandylion

I have never been in love with an alcoholic--just related to them. I have heard it said that the great fear of m ost co-dependents is that if the alcoholic goes into recovery is that somehow the alcoholic won't need them anymore.

Just saying......

dandylion

Hammer

If we were not both engineers, I would feel sort of guilty. As things are, I figure I am just maybe barely tapping you on the shoulder.

Don't worry, you will get there. The class would be a LOT Easier if you broke open the books and did the study, rather than just trying to hack your way through the Lab portion. But it is your path, and your way. I sure do not want to take that away from you.

Crazed

Never have I done this. I am 100% honest with my feelings with her, and have been.

The reason I have called her my EXAG is because she moved out, so EX was more appropriate. Our ending discussions have always been "we need to get healthy." So it is not really GF, or not really EXGF, it is like Facebook "It's Complicated."
For convenience, I have been using EXAG (we were closer to EX, and not active).

But we still have a deep emotional bond. She has always maintained how much she still loves me and misses me- I left that out because I didn't want to hear about how it was just quacking.

Crazed

Done with a simple text about me supporting her decision. I too, think she needs to go through the rest of the steps. I just wish I could be there to support her when she needs it

Hammer

[speaking to deaf ears . . . where did I leave that bullhorn, anyway? ]

SHE does not need it.

SHE needs and gets to (hopefully) learn to walk on HER own.

As a wise AA-er commented to me -- (as I was peering through a crack in the window shades at my daughter in Alateen) -- Control Much?

LifeRecovery

Crazed-

This just may be me, but I hear in what her sponsor is saying is about your ex, and what is safe and okay for her. I don't read into it anything about you, your relationship etc.

I took what you wrote as the sponsor making sure she is helping her with her "job" that she signed up for, your ex's recovery and working of the steps. I did not read it as anything more (or less).

m1k3

I'm not sure you are hearing what is being said. When you are talking about HER, and what SHE did, and how much better SHE is, and how HER sponsor said..... the focus isn't on YOU.

I noticed my recovery really began when I stopped posting about my AW and started posting about me. And it wasn't post about work or breakfast but how do I make recovery work for me, how do I stop the pain, how do I grab some serenity, how do I make detachment work and thing like that.

What you have said about your recovery is pretty much I'm not as bad as I used to be.

My recommendation is that maybe you get a sponsor and you start working the steps rather than worrying about how well she is doing.

Your friend,

Tuffgirl

Actually, I have to disagree here that the focus is on him. He is actually asking a very pointed question.

He isn't asking how he can thwart her recovery and circumvent her sponsor's demands.

He isn't asking how he can manipulate her into doing what he wants.

He feels quite strong and confident in his own "recovery" and choices so far.

He is asking this forum if he is misunderstanding what is going on here. That's all.

By telling him he needs to focus on himself, we are missing the opportunity to share our own ES&H about this situation he finds himself in. And I personally have been on the receiving end of some serious AA dysfunction that really comes across as no support for relationships with non-addicts. I have also personally seen sponsors not be very helpful, or go the opposite direction and become enmeshed themselves with their sponsees.
It happens.

So yeah, in his description of this scenario, he uses "she" a lot. But the final question is totally and wholly related to him. Seems we've missed that part, no?

And lastly - I hope everyone picks up on the first few sentences, where he doesn't want to be beat up. So folks, if posters here get beat up over their decisions, we really aren't doing much worthwhile...

lillamy

I guess what I'm seeing is that even though you weren't married, you were together for ten years (right?) -- and so it's practically a marriage. And I think that somehow, if you had been married, the situation would have been viewed a bit differently. As in "your wife moved out and then decided to work on her recovery -- so your job is to be patient, let her do that, and you work on yours, and then you can figure out if you're going to continue being married or not once you're both healthy."

I honestly question her sponsor's advice. If you had had those rings and that piece of paper, ain't no way in hell a sponsor would have said "you have to have no contact with your husband until you're more stable in your recovery." It may be rock solid advice regardless, but I can't help but think that the lack of legal justification for your relationship plays a bigger role here than it should.

LexieCat

I dunno about that. If the parties were already separated, I can definitely see a sponsor suggesting to continue the status quo until the sponsee is on solid ground.

lillamy

You'd know a lot more about that than I do, Lexie -- it just seemed to me that it's easier to dismiss 10 years of relationship than 10 years of marriage...

LexieCat

Actually, the traditional advice doesn't even have to do with relationships specifically, it's no big CHANGES for the first year. It isn't a hard and fast rule, but changes bring on stress, and it's usually best to avoid unnecessary stressors for a while. The advice goes for changing jobs, moving, anything significant. Obviously sometimes those changes are absolutely necessary (leaving an abusive partner, changing jobs if everyone there drinks and encourages you to join in), but in general it's a good rule of thumb, I think.