nbay2013

I remember hearing someone in an Al-Anon meeting talking about remembering when he first starting selling himself out to his XAW. When he starting realizing he was giving himself away and letting major boundaries be crossed. That had an impact on me. At the time and if truth be told, even now, I really dislike the term co-dependent. It makes me mad that I have a label now that I have spent 5 years with an alcoholic. But I could relate to the Al-Anon man's story. I thought back to when I started sensing "something is wrong". It was early on; there was a feeling; a spider sense. But it was not until 2 years into the relationship that I can look back and really see the first awareness of icky boundary crossing.

We were still living long distance. We met on a dating website so the first two years it was a 4 hour drive to visit. So we spent weekends together and talked on the phone. At first the talking every night was cool; but then it started to feel not so cool. Because he would take the time to complain and vent. It started slowly and amped up over the months. I started avoiding calls. But he wouldn't give up. He would email me; "where are you" and call over and over until I answered. And he would complain about his boss, his life, his money, his ex-wife (uggg that was the worst), etc etc. So, I used my skills that would work on normal people and said, "Hey, I am too tired for these intense late night calls. How about if you have issues you need talk about, to give me a heads up and we can talk earlier when I have more energy." So that worked for a few days...Then the late night calls resumed and I went along. I would try to wrap up the phone call, and he would say, "and one more thing and one more thing". And I would then say, "hey, I don't think you are listening; you are venting again, and it's 10:30 p.m.." That is when he would say things like, "Hey, that is who I am, I am not all upbeat and perky and fake". And that is the beginning of me feeling that spark of fear; like maybe if I didn't put up with the negativity and rants, he might not want to be with me. So, then I started being passive aggressive and avoiding calls...but ultimately he won...these calls went on every night. Every night!! Of course I did not know then he was drinking at the time and was under the influence on the calls. He lived 4 hours away and kept it a BIG SECRET.

I had a therapist at the time and I remember she said "What the heck do you have to talk about every night for 1 to 2 hours? She advised I just tell him "no", that he would be butt hurt for awhile but would adapt. He didn't adapt. I always relented eventually. He was too intense of a force and I was already worn down.

So, I am wondering for others on this site; in looking back; when did you first "give up yourself". I think it might help to hear details on what is this thing called "crossing boundaries"

Thx all,

Carrie

Tuffgirl

Good question!

For me - I quit listening to my intuition (or talked myself out of what I was sensing) the summer I moved in with my ex and found bottles all over the house and under the seat of his car.

To give myself a break, though, I didn't know much about alcoholism. But here's the kicker...I told him to keep the alcohol in a high cabinet in the kitchen, not hidden in different areas of the house. We made a booze cabinet and in it went our bottles, glasses, and the stainless shaker for martini's.

I realize now that was such a glaring huge red flag that I skipped over as if it was meaningless. I will never do that again.

It went downhill from there.

nbay2013

Oh, something like that happened to me too. When XAB moved to my area he stayed with me for 6 weeks. The first HUGE red flag was finding a vodka bottle in the freezer (where we kept it) with frozen water. I was really confused. I asked him...why did you put water in the vodka bottle. I mean it made zero sense to me. Why not just say its gone and get more? He got all weird and defensive and I kept on hammering at it, because I truly didn't get it. He just said, "oh it was stupid' and then got that kind intense simmering anger that I already was being trained to respond to. So, he probably didn't even remember doing it and probably thought that was clever to hide his late night drinking.

Ohhhhh...i just groan now. I too was not educated on alcoholism.

spiderqueen

I have too many of those moments to even count. Worst of all, I loved my A twenty years ago, left him because of those "spidery feelings", and then returned to him mid-life. Yikes! Needless to say, the alcoholism had progressed BIG TIME.

And I groan, still, too.

You know what, nbay2013, I am ready to stop the internal groan. It is starting to interfere with my beautiful singing voice.

Maybe we could sing a duet!
xo SQ

nbay2013

Hey Spider;

I am into week three of NC and I can see a glimmer of a song. Being on this site helps me normalize my experience and stop being so angry at myself.

That's why I like to hear other's stories. Every time I hear a story like mine it reminds me I am not alone, I am not unique, and eventually I can let him go with peace.

lillamy

We were still dating and went on our first trip together. I was exhausted and wanted to go to sleep and he was using (I can see now) very manipulative and controlling tactics to get me to agree to have sex. He was drunk and angry and a bit frightening to me so I agreed, not because I wanted to but because I was afraid of what would happen if I didn't.

Why the hell I didn't run after that, I don't know.

nbay2013

lillamy.

i am assuming you didn't for the same reason I didn't move on. You were already "invested". I mean it's unexpected. I was used to predictable emotional reactions in past relationships; and my EXAB was....unpredictable. I always felt off balance. Put that together with low self esteem after illness and divorce and years of single parenting.. and well...I am just figuring out what "low self esteem" really means. I used to think it was just some after school special documentary. Turns out..it's real.

Wavy

Hmm I'm not sure. Maybe when he wanted to go down the pub every evening and I didn't but I went anyway. But honestly I did that with my BF before ABF so I just went right on and carried that on from the previous relationship. Maybe when we had been together only a couple of months, if that, and were arguing and he shoved me hard enough that I fell over and I didn't even realise anything worrying had happened. I'm sure there were many red-flags before that point but that is the on that stands out in my mind where I should have thought "I'm outta here!" but instead laughed with him about how easy I was to push over.

funkynassau

Holy cow a lot of this sounds like what I went thru with a friend who is an alcoholic. No romantic relationship, just a bizarre friendship. He'd call all the time and if I didnt answer he'd leave a msg then call back many times til I finally answered. He'd rant and rave about everything, all convos were about him, it was rare I could talk about something on my mind. He wore me out! I quit answering the phone and he kept calling many times a day. I'd talk to him if I felt like it, but it wasnt often.

In the end he emailed asking me what's wrong and I said I am having trouble dealing with your drinking, it's my problem not yours. In the end he chose beer over friendship. Life is way less stressful now that he doesnt contact me. I am relieved.

fedupbeyondall

I think the moment I "sold out" was after we had, had a conversation about our less then stellar exes from our pasts. He told me that an ex gave him a list of things he needed to change before they would get married. One of those items, I suspect the only item if there even was a list, was he quit drinking. I can remember thinking how adsurd that was, a list of chores that involved changing yourself? Crazy talk. Well I certainly wasn't going to place such crazy demands on him. I was under the impression of love them for who they are.

Good grief what a blockhead I was. Here was the biggest red flag of them all. "Hi the last victim I reeled in saw through my disguise and now I'm going to use their manipulative nature to show you how that's silly and you should just love me for me." Looking back now, it was glaringly obvious, but I was so stubborn and determined not to "hurt him" like the partners of his past that I just skipped right along whistling like nothing ever happened.

LifeRecovery

I struggled with the behaviors of codependency way before getting into my relationship that got me here.

I sold out from an early age when I did not realize that the most important person in my life is me. That and self care is NOT selfish (which goes hand in hand for me).

Wavy

Good point LifeRecovery. Being an ACoA I've been selling out from when I was about six, when pleasing other people was the most important thing, regardless of what I wanted/needed. Maybe that's why it was so hard to think of that first thing in my relationship with ABF because its so deep rooted.

Florence

We had been dating for awhile. He worked as a chef, and I was waiting for him to get off of work around midnight one night so we could go out. He never called. I called him and he didn't pick up. Late that night I got a text from an acquaintance wanting to know why my boyfriend was getting cozy with one of his coworkers at the bar. Like an idiot, I left my friends and drove down there and broke up the party of two, and we got into a massive fight where he told me I was boring, my life (school and single parenting) was boring and didn't have time for him. Also, he was wasted that night because the other girl plied him with sooo many drinks he didn't know how many he'd had. Like an even bigger idiot, I BELIEVED HIM.

So, I fought for him and I won. Hence the Oscar Wilde quote in my signature.

Looking back, I am so damn mad at myself for not having the wisdom to walk away. I'm 90% sure they had a relationship, but no one ever filled in the gaps for me and I never got an answer. I guess I know everything I need to know.

I did something almost identical. I saw a lot of weird behavior around the alcohol, and I left it at "weird behavior" and didn't see "alcoholism" until years later.

Tuffgirl

Yep - I didn't "see" it for what it was either, even after a therapist TOLD me exactly what I was dealing with. Took me another year after that therapy session to utter the word out loud. I was truly head-in-the-sand about it. *shaking my head now!*

Mightyqueen801

I sold out early in the relationship. I rationalized it all with religious beliefs, even though I was not exactly practicing any religion at the time. I thought I was supposed to turn the other cheek, forgive seventy times seven, always always always put the other person first...it's how I was raised.

But the one thing that stands out in my head wasn't about drinking specifically. We'd gone to the horse races (which I enjoyed--but he was a compulsive gambler, too, another whole new world that I didn't know any more about than I did alcoholism) and he'd lost all his money. I was trying to live on a budget, and on the way home he asked me for $20 because he had no money left. I said, "No, I need what I have to get me through until next payday..." and he called me cheap. Said he couldn't believe how cheap I was that I wouldn't "lend" him a measly $20. I agreed that I was being cheap and gave him the money. That was the start of tens of thousands of dollars he would get out of me...and I just stayed with him.

Well, hell, I had a BOYFRIEND. I had the chance to get MARRIED! I HAD to do those things and put up with the gambling and drinking and drugs, because if I didn't, I would always be single, and that would be worse...right?

I still cringe in shame inside of myself, thirty years later.

nbay2013

Oh my! Oh yes...This resonates with me big time. I remember having an EX discussion and he said that he truly does not know what caused the end of their 17 year marriage and that he would ever know. He took zero responsibility and gave her 100%. RED FLAG RED FLAG

How I translated then. "Oh, you and me will always communicate; that is the kind of relationship we will have"

What I now know. Over time I came to know that no matter what I say to my XAB it makes no difference. When I first broke it off with him over a year ago; we had HOURS of discussion and email why I couldn't continue on with him. Gawd...I remember trying and trying to make it clear. I even put together a proper outlined organized list of reasons. LOL. Later he would say, "You have given me no clear reason why I broke it off"..

Oh, I cringe on my willingness to put my head in the sand.

fedupbeyondall

Oh man, I totally was that way myself. To me, being single was the worst thing ever. I spent the majority of my adult life single and when I found someone that was willing to put up with my crazy I figured I should return the favor. And there was no way I was turning 30 without the prospect of a marriage in my near future.Accept him for who he was good and bad (we all have our good and bad) and settle down for my nice happy life. THe one thing I can say, is we have maintained our finances as seperate as possible, that was one boundary I have not allowed to be crossed. We cover each other from time to time on various bills, but still keep things seperate. Well except for a shared savings account we were using to build a down payment on a house. That's now gone and we still live in a tiny apartment......that's another story. Turns out my crazy is tame compared to the insanity of living with an active A tho. Holy moly I had no idea how deep the rabbit hole went.

fedupbeyondall

Oh I know when the time comes I will get the "But, but, but WHY, don't you love me? I didn't do anything wrong." I can only hope I can just laugh and say "bless your heart" If you're southern you know exactly what that means

nbay2013

I hope you are letting go of the shame Mightyqueen. Hey I was 49 when I met this man and I didn't have, a least an obvious history, of codependent relationships and yet I STILL rolled over; eventually. We are dealing with intensely strong energy of addiction and manipulation.

Being on the site is helping me realize how common this is and how we have to learn, yet another lesson in life and forgive ourselves and then (eventually) forgive them. We don't stop learning about life until we die.

nbay2013

I'm from California, so I looked up the phrase. LOL.. "A southern woman's way to insult people without being rude."