Last night and more

Old 08-02-2013, 06:54 AM
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Last night and more

I’ll try to be as concise as possible and try to sum up what‘s been going on. I don’t expect magical answers I just need to write this out and try to understand-bear with me.

I’ve been with my AH for 17 years. I first suspected he had a problem 13 years ago when I came home one evening, 3 months pregnant after a birthday (mine) dinner with some girlfriends, to find my AH home alone, completely wasted. We had a talk later, and I explained to him that this made me uncomfortable, and that we were going to be parents soon and this was not appropriate behaviour. Well 13 years later, many ”discussions”, lies, broken promises, bottles hidden too many places to count, a DUI that was dropped; and begging, crying, pleading, threatening, ultimatums, on my part.

Things started getting worse a few years ago. One night, my AH left my oldest at his sports practice, and proceeded to go drink and come back home with my oldest and crashed, wasted…that night something snapped inside of me. I should’ve left right then and there….unfortunately that night was the eve of my departure for a week-long trip south with a girlfriend of mine. I never felt so devastated, scared, lost in my entire life…I was leaving my two kids (then 6 and 8) with an irresponsible adult; how could I do something like that? What kind of mom was I? Luckily, I had arranged for my sister-in-law to come over during my absence to help her brother with the kids, but she had no idea he had a drinking problem. Everything turned out fine, fortunately, however, his judgement did not improve and over the next few years, he again made some really bad decisions that could have turned out much worse than they did. And I started detaching myself, trying to focus on my kids and what I wanted out of this. I grieved the future I had imagined for our family, I grieved the great, sweet, intelligent, responsible guy I met 17 years ago, and started imagining a different life that could be. I’ve been in therapy for myself, and started couples therapy a few month ago with my AH, because last fall, I gave him an (another) ultimatum-seek help or I’m out. He convinced me to go into therapy with him, because he insists (and I agree but that’s beside the point) I also have issues and our problems are not all caused by his drinking. So in therapy since April and two weeks ago, I find a half drunken bottle of Vodka hidden with his spare tire tools, in the trunk of his car! That is the last straw; we’re in couples therapy at 165$ an hour, and he’s still hiding bottles! This is ridiculous.

So now, last night; to begin the discussion, I sent an article I’d found on a web site that concerns alcoholics and hiding bottles to my AH. He read it and agreed that he could see himself in this article. I tell him I can no longer continue like this, the lies, the hiding, it has destroyed our relationship and I don’t see how things can get better. He stops me and says he’s made a decision: he is giving up drinking-period. I ask if he’ll seek help from AA or a therapist, whatever. He says no need; “the problem is that I drink, I’ll just stop drinking”. I tell him I don’t believe he can do it on his own, not to be mean, but drinking for so long, he cannot do this alone. He argues that he’s done it for a month in the past; it’ll be the same, just longer…

So my question is: what now? I wait and see when he’ll fall off the wagon? I continue with my plan to leave? I know he’ll make this difficult, he did mention during our conversation that he will not say to the kids that “we” decided to break up, it’ll be completely my responsibility; that “I” decided to leave. I expected this, but it’s hard to hear it. I just wish I could just detach myself, and focus on getting my life back together. He managed to turn tables again on me last night, pointing out my shortcomings, and my faults…it’s so hard to focus and stay strong. I know I’m not perfect, far from it. I’ve made mistakes and I’ve admitted them to my AH. I agree that his drinking is not our only issue, but am I wrong to think that his drinking (and lying, and bad decisions, etc.) affect everything in our relationship and we cannot begin to work on anything else before he faces this?

Any insight would be great right now, I’m a little lost…thank you all for being there.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:13 AM
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If you've made a plan to leave, I'd continue with it. You can come back if he puts his money where his mouth is. I seriously doubt he will be able to stay sober and healthy just on his own willpower, but let him prove it if he can. Just be prepared for the "I can't do it without you here," which is b.s.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:31 AM
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I've learned a lot from this site. And the main thing I have learned is that alcohol affects every aspect of a relationship. Even when the A hasn't drunk in a while and is seemingly sober, it still has an effect. Almost everything they say and do is focused on alcohol and when they will get to their next drink. Him throwing back your own faults and shortcomings is just quacking, him trying to get the focus off of him and his drinking. It's manipulation, something A's are very good at. I also have gleened that only you can truly decide your next steps in deciding what is right for you and your children. As a wise member here has said "I stayed until the pain of staying was greater than the pain of leaving" (I may have paraphrased a bit).

Keep coming back. SR is a tremendous source of support. Check out Al-Anon as well. I haven't gone yet (still working up my courage) but I intend to go soon. Support is key. Keep taking care of YOU and you KIDDO'S and let your H work out his issues on his own. They are his to own and his to resolve just like yours are your own.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:32 AM
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Or what Lexie said
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:54 AM
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It's a complete loss of your time to be looking for empty bottles.

i just got to the point where I just figured/ assumed XA had been drinking, and if by some small chance, he hadn't, that was a bonus for me.......... ( such a very unhealthy way to live)

Of course he is not going to tell the kids "we" decided to break up, he is not accepting responsibility, and he is still in denial. AND of course he is shifting all the blame on to you, so in his head, he is the victim, and you are the bad wife who took his kids away from him.

As Lexie said, continue with YOUR plan.

Currently, NOTHING will change for him. He simply is not ready.

But you and the kids deserve a life free of addiction.

So now what, you ask? Time to put you and your kids FIRST.

He is an adult, let him figure it out for himself.

Sending you support.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:59 AM
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Everytime I'd fight with my ex about his drinking (which is not recommended, BTW), he'd turn it all around to be about me and my shortcomings. A's are masters at this! They get you worrying about shortcomings you don't even have by taking tiny aspects of your character and blowing them all out of proportion. It is manipulation and a way of deflecting the attention away from their drinking. Don't fall for it.

My ex always got me by telling me I was the "most negative person on the planet." I am troubled by anxiety and very self critical so he had me really believing this was true. After quite a bit of space from his manipulation, I've realized I am not a negative person. If anything, I have taken the tragedies of my life and turned them into positive learning experiences. A's hit below the belt. They say anything to get you to back off their drinking.

I agree with Lexie that the chances of your AH quitting drinking without a program are slim. What I would expect, are better attempts from him at hiding the booze--I hope I am wrong. I also think you should move forward with a plan to reclaim a serene life.

I'm sorry you are going through this.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:00 AM
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Yep - add me to the list of folks who think you should stick to your plan.

Originally Posted by marie1960 View Post
As Lexie said, continue with YOUR plan.

He is an adult, let him figure it out for himself.
He is an adult after all, as Marie points out.

I know its not what you want, but it may be what you need right now. And it may be exactly what he needs too. Just "quitting drinking" often isn't the answer. And maybe some time apart from his family will help him see that.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:05 AM
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Secret insider alcoholic info: everything an active alcoholic says equates to "please don't leave me; let me continue my addiction."

My mom finally asked my dad to leave until he got sober. He went straight into treatment and stayed sober, BUT...he was out of the house for 3 years until they both decided to move back in. They are still together 27 years later.

The key was my mom clearly defined her boundaries and stuck to them, no forgiveness for 3 days of sobriety and a bouquet of grocery store flowers.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:23 AM
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I have been in your shoes. It is not easy.

We tried marriage counseling. It is often stated here that marriage counseling is useless with an active alcoholic. I agree with that. And EVERY discussion my XAH and I had about his drinking got turned around to: #1 How bad his life is so he deserves to drink; #2 His drinking is not hurting anybody else, and #3 I drink, too; so how can I say he is an alcoholic..... and other ways that I was not perfect so how could I expect him to not drink.

He also made sure that everyone knew that "I" left "him"..... and played the pitiful victim role to perfection. I'm sorry to say that our oldest son has bought into that; and has cut me out of his life. That really hurts.

But, I couldn't stay and life like that.... Now almost 6 years after leaving I have no regrets.

I agree with the advice that leaving doesn't have to be permanent. You can separate for awhile, and watch from a distance. You absolutely can give him another chance to sober up. But, you don't have to be living with him while he does it.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:27 AM
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Thank you for all the great insight.

To jazzfish: I wish my AH would do just that, this is what I would expect him to do, this is what I asked him to do but he will not do this on his own, so I have to do what needs to be done and that pi$$'s me off. Sorry.

My head knows all this, it's clear as water, simple? Not really. I know I'm right, I know he has a problem, I don't need more proof. He won't change his habits unless he wants to and gets help to do so. I know he's using my shortcomings and "lack of support" as reasons to continue drinking and to deflect responsibility.

I'll continue going forward. I'm looking at places to stay, I'm arranging my finances, I've spoken to friends, they are supportive. I keep coming here. I'll try to stay focused on what is good for my kids and I.

He said he has stopped drinking for good, well we'll see. He's starting his vacation tonight.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:33 AM
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As an alcoholic who has been practicing rational recovery... maybe with the right tools in place he will just quit. However, you need to do what is right for you and your kids and let him work his stuff out.

I am so sorry you are going through this. I was so selfish when I was actively drinking and pretty much the only thing that really mattered to me was my next drink.

GL- Jess
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:34 AM
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When I say he went "straight" to treatment, he actually wallowed in his "cave" (his basement apartment) for several months, and then was confronted by his boss and several close friends. So, there were some strong lines set before him.

I wish you the best with this. It is definitely not easy.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:50 AM
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jkb- What are the right tools? He's not a "spiritual" person and for him AA equals religion. Going to therapy (couples counselling) was his first experience with "psychology"-for this scientific guy, AA, therapy, Counselling, is all "hokus pokus"....

He needs facts and proof and I guess if I leave, I may get through to him, or maybe not. Who knows. I guess, again I must focus on me and how I feel and what I need. I just find it difficult to accept that since he's causing most of the grief, I must take my stuff and my kids and move out....I know, life's not fair, but I'm just tired.
Thank you all again for being great support.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:55 AM
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He doesn't NEED "facts and proof"--that's just a BS excuse.

He isn't ready. If he were ready (read: desperate), he would grab onto a program that has worked for countless others.

It's kind of like having to understand everything about electricity before you can be bothered to turn on a light. Either it ain't that dark yet, or you really don't care about being able to see.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:58 AM
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I'm so sorry Ripper - I can't even put into words how much I feel for ya right now - and I am without the 17 years , marriage and kids! I can't imagine with all that... (((HUGS)))

No words of wisdom for you...but I'm sending you strength and prayers for wisdom, and hope that you can find room and time to do some things that make you happy and give you some peace!
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:28 AM
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He's not a "spiritual" person and for him AA equals religion.
Yes, of course. And there's also drunks there. You know, alcoholics. And he's not an alcoholic so he doesn't fit in there.

When you don't want to stop drinking, you will find ANY excuse.
When you DO want to get sober, you will try ANYTHING.

One of my RA friends said when she finally decided to get sober, if someone had told her to go down to the creek and toss a coin over her shoulder at the next full moon, she would have done it. And she's an engineer. Diehard scientist atheist.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:45 AM
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I can speak from that viewpoint except from an Al-anon basis.

Al-anon has a christian bias and a lot of spiritual and god talk. I am a diehard computer programmer atheist. When I went to Al-anon and I saw some of the people there, their composure and serenity I knew I needed that. I am still a diehard atheist but I have found ways to make that program work for me and I am still going two and half years later.

If he wanted recovery he would find a way to make it work, I did.

Your friend,
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
jkb- What are the right tools? He's not a "spiritual" person and for him AA equals religion. Going to therapy (couples counselling) was his first experience with "psychology"-for this scientific guy, AA, therapy, Counselling, is all "hokus pokus"....
Oh Ripper, I am with you. My beloved (very smart/scientific/artistic/genius) ABF has and will make every excuse to stay out of the meetings; spiritual (AA), secular (HMO recovery, SMART, LifeRing), whatever. He can't stand being around other drinkers - it feels like a shameful, awful mirror to him, I guess, rather than a fellowship of similarly afflicted individuals offering support and guidance. (read: room full of drunks.)

Another problem: he drinks in isolation, being basically a pretty solitary person anyway. So the rooms full of people are overwhelming, regardless, and not something he seeks out.

So he has tried (and tried and tried) his own program, which includes daily exercise, mindfulness/meditation, making stuff (he's an artist), journaling - and it all works - until it stops working again. And it's progressing. And I'm terrified for him.

Today, I am thinking of going no-contact (he has just been through another awful binge). Not as punishment, or as a manipulation, or in hopes of it pushing him into treatment, or whatever. Just to save MY life, MY sanity, and MY peace of mind.

Anyway, I wish you both well. Reading, and posting here has been very helpful to me - I hope you keep coming back.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Ripper View Post

He says no need; “the problem is that I drink, I’ll just stop drinking”.
If I had a dime for every time I've head this...
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:47 AM
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Hi Ripper-

Rational Recovery is what has worked for me. It taught me the tools I needed to stay away from alcohol. However, I am a firm believer in that no program will work if you are not done and determined to quit.

My advice is leave him a copy of Rational Recovery on the counter on your way out the door. I he really wants to quit well then its a pretty simple program. Take care of you first.

Jess
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