MamaKit

Do any of you remember that video game from the 80's where a frog has to dodge dangerous traffic to get where it needs to go? Frogger.

I have been wondering if the latest communication pattern I have been engaging in with my STBAXH is healthy refusal to engage in his nastiness (like frogger, avoiding collisions to get where he needs to go across the highway) or if I am actually a boiling frog.

My STBAXH is a real A$$hat. He is nasty in his emails (the only way we communicate) either about me or my family or friends. The subject matter is irrelevant. When he has time with the boys (no overnights yet) he often asks to drop them off early so he doesn't have to bother with dinner (leaving that to me). He hasn't paid a dime of court ordered child support. He consistently calls me a bad mother and reminds me he will fight me on everything in court for the next 10 years. In reality, most of his ranting and raving turns out to be bluster that dissipates within 24 hours.

So, my technique has been not to engage in nasty back and forth. I don't defend myself to him when he accuses me of being too soft on the boys or irresponsible or whatever. I also don't hold is feet to the fire on anything. If I am not prepared to feed the boys or have no makings for a decent dinner, I just make do and agree to pick them up early. (Dad has very limited money from what I can tell). I haven't made a peep about the child support.

One email more than a month ago that was directed at members of my family and me was ridiculously over the line and I told him if emails continued in that way I would not communicate with him and the interim divorce order would determine when he saw the boys and there would be no more flexibility (because it requires communication.)

No emails have crossed that line again...but he is approaching it.

The question is....am I frogger, artfully dodging negativity and conflict or am I being groomed for more abuse and control (ie; the boiling frog)?

It's all so hard because if I do get more assertive with boundary setting...the boys will see it and I don't want to have to tell them that their Dad is being an A$$hat to me.

Thoughts? Wisdom? Nostalgia for old video games?

Thanks
MamaKit

LexieCat

You don't have to tell them he is being an a$$hat. All you have to do is to say that you are doing what you think is best. Period. You're the parent. You get to make those calls.

Recovering2

I think you are artfully dodging more conflict, and that's a good choice. Nothing is to be gained from engaging in ridiculous arguments. So let him rant, and don't engage. But I WOULD be sure to save each and every email from him, start a file. They will help you in court. No need to say anything to your boys. They are witness to their Dad's behavior, they already know. Just stay stable for them, be the one parent they can rely on.

atalose

I would think that you would want to teach your children that “unacceptable behavior is always unacceptable” no matter who is doing the behavior, it’s not acceptable and that they never should tolerate it.

That setting and following through on boundaries is healthy and by you setting that example they will learn the importance of boundaries.

You can’t protect your kids from reality, their father is being who he is. And the more you cushion them from reality the worse their resentment towards you will become.

SparkleKitty

I totally get behind not engaging when things get nasty but a giant red flag sort of blinded me when you said he has not paid one dime of court-ordered child support.

I feel like protecting him from the legal consequences of his failure to pay is a form of enabling. I understand there may be extenuating circumstances, and I even hear when you say he doesn't seem to have money (though that is not your problem). This is something you don't even have to be involved in after notifying the legal system of his failure to comply, isn't it?

Edited to add: I don't often comment on threads where divorce and kids are involved because I don't have kids and I simply cannot fathom the amount of strength it takes to go through something like this. The time, the energy, the self-doubt...I think everyone on this board who is dealing with situations like these is a freaking superhero. I only commented here because while you can't do much to change his crappy behavior in emails and towards you, there is a system in place to enforce the consequences of not paying his child support, and I feel like you should make it work to your advantage!!!

Hugs to you and your kids.

MamaKit

SparkleKitty,
((((hugs)))) and thank you for your kind words.
Red flag you say??? This child support thing has elevated to the level of alarm bells and flashing lights in my skull. Uggghhhh
The thing is....I am 99% certain he does not have the money. I know this is not my problem. I may be protecting him from his consequences, it's true. But my pragmatic side keeps saying, why fight a battle that can't be won? (at least not right now). "Don't you have enough conflict without adding this to the mix?", I say to myself
But the codependency red flags are flying!!! I see them.
My plan is to wait for the final order which is past due and see how that reads and then make my decision on how to pursue the child support thing.
But this is one of the things that is making me feel like a boiled frog.
Hugs,
MamaKit

skippernlilg

I think our children learn a whole lot from us when we make and keep responsible and respectable boundaries. Your example is the best way to teach them these important life skills. When we demonstrate that other people do what they do, and sometimes bad decisions can and will be made, they will learn by those examples, too. We don't have to describe other people's behaviors that much. Our children find their language for that. We remember how people make us feel. Listen to how they talk to YOU about it, and carefully navigate those age-appropriate answers with your children. Also, another note, children learn adaptability fairly well. Having more or less discipline or more or less House Rules in each environment can actually be good for them so that they learn flexibility and adaptability in most future environments, like work, school, community.

stella27

Hugs MamaKit, I wonder those things too. I do get child support and am very grateful to God for that. But I don't get reimbursed for expenses he's required to pay and I only ask once because the fight takes a huge emotional toll on me.

I think that the secret is to decide which battles need to be fought and save your strength for those. Ordinarily, child support would certainly qualify, but if you want to see that final order come through, it may be best not to get sidetracked right now.

Especially since you don't believe he has the money. The courts aren't going to enforce it absent a final order anyway and you don't want to get the fight into court only to have his support lowered because he can't pay it.

I support your course of action right now. And I do believe I sometimes go to far to avoid fighting when I should be comfortable standing up for myself.

lillamy

SR wisdom that I've had a lot of help from when it comes to communicating with an AXH like yours (and mine):

1) When you get an e-mail or a text message, ask yourself "does this pertain to the children?"
If the answer is NO, file it with your records. No response needed.
If the answer is YES, go to #2 below.

2) Does the message contain a question or information?
If NO, file it with your records. No response needed.
If YES, go to #3 below.

3) Is there a question that NEEDS an answer? Or information that requires a response? (As in, "Can I pick the kids up at 3 instead of 4 tomorrow?" or "I have come down with a terrible case of the ebola virus and cannot possibly pick the children up from school today") If NO, file with your records.
If YES, write your response as brief and non-emotional as possible. Pretend you are responding to a business e-mail. "Yes, 3 pm will work." "I will get them from school today."

Note that "information" does not include statements like "your mother is a rabid bat and your father smells like a pig farm" -- that stuff is just keep-for-your-files kind of stuff.

When it comes to what you say to your children about their father, it's really fairly simple in my mind. Or so I thought at least. I have not badmouthed AXH in front of the children, ever. But I have also not stopped them or tried to defend or explain him when they have expressed their anger, disappointment, pain, whatever, about how he treats them. I've listened, and I've said "I'm sorry he did that. That must have hurt your feelings." and not gone beyond that.

The kids are now sort of mad at me for it. They feel like I haven't had their backs. Like I've even after the divorce supported their father over them. I've explained to them that my relationship with their father is different than their relationship with their father -- and that they need to build their own relationship with him. But to them, not agreeing with them when they've said "he's such an a$$hat" has felt like I haven't been supportive.

That being the case -- I still wouldn't do anything differently. Because I still believe the children need to form their own opinions about him. My uncle, who is an alcoholic, died leaving two children behind. One of them has barely had any contact with his dad in the past 10 years; the other one was at his side every day helping him out with stuff. And that's OK. When they're adults, they can make those choices. When they're kids, I don't feel right making the choices for them unless they are in a situation of abuse or neglect.

LexieCat

Just a couple of other thoughts, now that I have a little more time to think about your post. Placating the drunk almost NEVER pays off. You can be non-provocative without placating. IOW, you don't have to give him warnings about what will happen if he crosses your boundaries.

With a guy like this, I think what usually works best is simply doing everything in a formal way. Communicate only the absolute essentials, and if he is ignoring court orders, report that. The orders are there for the protection of all parties, including him. The more closely you adhere to the letter of the orders, the less he has to complain about and the better you look in court. When you start letting things go for the sake of "keeping the peace," he gets the message that the orders don't really mean anything, and the court may look at the violations as not being that big a deal to you.

These are COURT orders, not your private rules. The court has its own interest in seeing that the orders are enforced. If you report each and every violation, and scrupulously abide by the order yourself, you stand a much better chance of ultimately getting what you are supposed to get, and letting the court, not you, be the "bad guy."

And really, I wouldn't discuss with your kids the ins and outs of how he is behaving with respect to the court case. That's really in no one's interest. If your kids ask why dad is complaining, you can just tell them that the court tells him what he has to do, and the court gets mad if he disobeys, just as you get upset with them if they disobey your rules. And that's really all that needs to be said about it.

It's really lovely when parents can work together and be reasonable and flexible about things, but when that is not possible, the orders make sure things are done properly.

MamaKit

Thank you all,
I really need to get smart about this. I have been rationalizing my inaction and broad boundaries by thinking it is best for the kids and detaching. It's not so much about holding him accountable. But it is more about thinking I can influence this relationship. Not only is that something I can't do....I shouldn't even be trying to. When that final order comes down...it will set the parameters....barring a early pickup from school or switching a night here or there for weeknight dinner.

It is helpful to get your perspectives .....particularly about the kids and how they need to form their own opinions and forge their own relationships with their dad. Thank you Lillamy and skipper. And as you stated Stella, I will wait for that final order and then learn to get comfortable standing up for myself.

Lexie,I understand all of the principles behind following the order and that it is the Court's order and not mine and how it could be construed if I don't follow it or notify when it is not being adhered to.....when it applies to others. When it applies to me, my head is a bit thicker.

You've all helped me look at this through another lens. No longer is the focus avoiding a fight. Rather, I am truly separating from him and letting go of my expectations of him and that I can somehow influence his behavior or hide who he is from my boys.

I'm feeling just a little bit lighter.
Hugs to you all.
MamaKit