Powerless?
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Powerless?
Hi
I didn't know if I should put this in the steps forum? Just didn't want to be perceived as being critical in a place where people are trying to work through things using that chosen structure.
Anyway, I wondered if someone was able to help me to understand the concept of being "powerless" in the context of AA? My A seems to be throwing the word around a lot and to me it's coming across as a way to shirk responsibility for his behaviour. Can't help but think this isn't what it's meant to be and I've got it wrong!
Thank you
I didn't know if I should put this in the steps forum? Just didn't want to be perceived as being critical in a place where people are trying to work through things using that chosen structure.
Anyway, I wondered if someone was able to help me to understand the concept of being "powerless" in the context of AA? My A seems to be throwing the word around a lot and to me it's coming across as a way to shirk responsibility for his behaviour. Can't help but think this isn't what it's meant to be and I've got it wrong!
Thank you
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He's powerless over alcohol and other people and certain situations. He isn't powerless over his own behavior otherwise.
Powerlessness over alcohol simply means that without treatment (i.e., the 12 Steps), an alcoholic is powerless over taking a drink sooner or later and powerless to control the drinking once he or she begins.
Is he actually working the Steps with a sponsor?
Can you give us an example of how he is using it that makes you suspect he is using it as an excuse?
Powerlessness over alcohol simply means that without treatment (i.e., the 12 Steps), an alcoholic is powerless over taking a drink sooner or later and powerless to control the drinking once he or she begins.
Is he actually working the Steps with a sponsor?
Can you give us an example of how he is using it that makes you suspect he is using it as an excuse?
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Hi
Yes, he does have a sponsor that goes through the steps with him. I dunno, he just keeps throwing it out there and will often say after we touch on a subject where he has perhaps not been a nice person. He will just come out with "I'm powerless".
I got drunk with my friends this weekend and he's been completely off with me about it. I found it all quite hypocritical. He reckons I ruined the weekend because I ended up in bed quite ill all day Saturday. Maybe I did but I found it all quite hypocritical. The man has now been sober for 7 weeks (relapsed after the MC) and he's acting like he's the Arch Bishop of Caterbury. He lectured me about drinking (I'm not an alcoholic and rarely go out and get into a state like I did); we didn't make plans for this weekend so actually I didn't ruin anything (unlike him who has ruined plenty of weekends due to his drinking including a weekend where we had bought tickets to see the Olympic Games); he's bringing up the fact that I woke him up Friday morning and just generally being unbelievably judgmental. When I touched on the fact that he's no angel himself he started with the "I'm powerless" talk.
Not once have I questioned the way he relapsed after the whole MC saga we went through, all I said afterwards was "every day is a new day and we need to move on from it". Yet I go out, make a mistake of drinking too much and feeling really rough afterwards, and I get all his BS?
Yes, he does have a sponsor that goes through the steps with him. I dunno, he just keeps throwing it out there and will often say after we touch on a subject where he has perhaps not been a nice person. He will just come out with "I'm powerless".
I got drunk with my friends this weekend and he's been completely off with me about it. I found it all quite hypocritical. He reckons I ruined the weekend because I ended up in bed quite ill all day Saturday. Maybe I did but I found it all quite hypocritical. The man has now been sober for 7 weeks (relapsed after the MC) and he's acting like he's the Arch Bishop of Caterbury. He lectured me about drinking (I'm not an alcoholic and rarely go out and get into a state like I did); we didn't make plans for this weekend so actually I didn't ruin anything (unlike him who has ruined plenty of weekends due to his drinking including a weekend where we had bought tickets to see the Olympic Games); he's bringing up the fact that I woke him up Friday morning and just generally being unbelievably judgmental. When I touched on the fact that he's no angel himself he started with the "I'm powerless" talk.
Not once have I questioned the way he relapsed after the whole MC saga we went through, all I said afterwards was "every day is a new day and we need to move on from it". Yet I go out, make a mistake of drinking too much and feeling really rough afterwards, and I get all his BS?
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Well, perhaps his "point" was that your comparison of his alcoholic drinking to your own overindulgence on this occasion is kind of an apples and oranges comparison. IOW, you are not powerless over alcohol; he is.
So maybe that was not the best response to his complaint about your drinking this weekend. FWIW, it IS pretty hard for someone in early recovery to deal with a partner who gets inebriated. I'm not jumping on you, just telling you how it feels from his perspective. It probably feels to him as if you are not being supportive.
I know HE was not supportive of YOU when you had the miscarriage and he went out and relapsed. That's his mess that he will have to take responsibility for. And if he continues to recover and do the work he will probably get there eventually. But if we go around doing the "you did this, so it's OK that I did that" then we aren't really taking responsibility for our own side of the street.
It's completely up to you whether you drink, and it's his responsibility to stay sober regardless of what you do. I do think, though, that when one's partner is in early recovery, it is a supportive thing to do not to be drunk or hungover around them.
Just my take on it, as someone who has been on both sides of the alcohol problem.
So maybe that was not the best response to his complaint about your drinking this weekend. FWIW, it IS pretty hard for someone in early recovery to deal with a partner who gets inebriated. I'm not jumping on you, just telling you how it feels from his perspective. It probably feels to him as if you are not being supportive.
I know HE was not supportive of YOU when you had the miscarriage and he went out and relapsed. That's his mess that he will have to take responsibility for. And if he continues to recover and do the work he will probably get there eventually. But if we go around doing the "you did this, so it's OK that I did that" then we aren't really taking responsibility for our own side of the street.
It's completely up to you whether you drink, and it's his responsibility to stay sober regardless of what you do. I do think, though, that when one's partner is in early recovery, it is a supportive thing to do not to be drunk or hungover around them.
Just my take on it, as someone who has been on both sides of the alcohol problem.
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Yeah I do get that and I was wrong. Since he's been in recovery, I've made sure that any socialising/ drinking has been done away from the home and I've stayed at a friends and come home sober. Just this time, I over did it and felt ill and just needed to be in my bed. The lecture I got for it just seemed so hypocritical.
But I do see your point about responsibility and i will act on that because you are right. Just feels like I'm always supportive of him and how he's feeling and not being judgemental when he messes up. I get it wrong and I get made to feel like the devil. It's like he doesn't stop and think "mmmm first time she has gone out and gone a bit wild since everything that has happened with her, perhaps I should give her a break?"
But I do see your point about responsibility and i will act on that because you are right. Just feels like I'm always supportive of him and how he's feeling and not being judgemental when he messes up. I get it wrong and I get made to feel like the devil. It's like he doesn't stop and think "mmmm first time she has gone out and gone a bit wild since everything that has happened with her, perhaps I should give her a break?"
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Well, as he gets better, he should realize those things. I know it feels like you're the one doing all the "giving" and he should have talked to you about it differently, too. But we can only take care of our own side of the street.
Yeah, I KNOW how much you've been through the past couple of months, and I hope it didn't feel like I was "piling on." I'm not saying he was right for talking to you that way, but he doesn't have the skills yet to act the way he should. I've seen amazing changes in alcoholics in recovery--this certainly doesn't mean he won't get there, or that he can't get there. Just that he's not THERE yet.
Hugs, I hope you are feeling better today.
Yeah, I KNOW how much you've been through the past couple of months, and I hope it didn't feel like I was "piling on." I'm not saying he was right for talking to you that way, but he doesn't have the skills yet to act the way he should. I've seen amazing changes in alcoholics in recovery--this certainly doesn't mean he won't get there, or that he can't get there. Just that he's not THERE yet.
Hugs, I hope you are feeling better today.
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Lexie, you definitely aren't piling anything on me. It's good to have a conversation with someone who can help you see things a bit differently. It's very easy to get caught up in your own rubbish and not see the whole picture so thank you :-)
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What Lexie says is spot on for my experiences. Early recovery was tough, and if I drank or even smelled like alcohol, even though he said it didn't matter, it very much did. Very much. Way more than I would have imagined.
And the powerless stuff? KKE, I think you know what it means, and I think you also know he isn't using it correctly here. To be perfectly blunt, I think he is flipping you some crap and you don't like it. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
All this on top of a miscarriage...I'd probably let it go if I were you. You both had a pretty serious trauma. Emotions are high, on top of him being a basketcase from his own recovery process. This seems like a good time to acknowledge this to yourself and drop the rope. It's so much nicer to be peaceful than right, in the long run.
And the powerless stuff? KKE, I think you know what it means, and I think you also know he isn't using it correctly here. To be perfectly blunt, I think he is flipping you some crap and you don't like it. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
All this on top of a miscarriage...I'd probably let it go if I were you. You both had a pretty serious trauma. Emotions are high, on top of him being a basketcase from his own recovery process. This seems like a good time to acknowledge this to yourself and drop the rope. It's so much nicer to be peaceful than right, in the long run.
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Sure. That part of this REALLY sucks.
*WE* are supposed to do everything perfect just to pass the class, *they* are supposed to get praised even if they are barely half-assed.
Reminds me of an old saying about Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire (old dance team). He always got top billing. But as the saying goes -- Ginger did everything Fred did, but she had to do it backwards and in high heels.
Gawd. This stuff is making me soooo ***. Sorry, cannot say ***. The little beaver or muskrat or groundhog whatever that is in curlers will be after me again. Let me try this. I am beginning to question my masculinity in these conversations.
*WE* are supposed to do everything perfect just to pass the class, *they* are supposed to get praised even if they are barely half-assed.
Reminds me of an old saying about Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire (old dance team). He always got top billing. But as the saying goes -- Ginger did everything Fred did, but she had to do it backwards and in high heels.
Gawd. This stuff is making me soooo ***. Sorry, cannot say ***. The little beaver or muskrat or groundhog whatever that is in curlers will be after me again. Let me try this. I am beginning to question my masculinity in these conversations.
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I don't do AA, but one thing I read from somebody else on here was that the powerless part should be taken to mean that once we start drinking, we're powerless over alcohol and will be compelled to drink more. But we DO have the power not to take that first drink.
It's not as though we're powerless over everything. That's just making an excuse or playing the victim.
I actually kind of think that the way that AA words that maybe isn't the best.
It's not as though we're powerless over everything. That's just making an excuse or playing the victim.
I actually kind of think that the way that AA words that maybe isn't the best.
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl 
What Lexie says is spot on for my experiences. Early recovery was tough, and if I drank or even smelled like alcohol, even though he said it didn't matter, it very much did. Very much. Way more than I would have imagined.
And the powerless stuff? KKE, I think you know what it means, and I think you also know he isn't using it correctly here. To be perfectly blunt, I think he is flipping you some crap and you don't like it. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
All this on top of a miscarriage...I'd probably let it go if I were you. You both had a pretty serious trauma. Emotions are high, on top of him being a basketcase from his own recovery process. This seems like a good time to acknowledge this to yourself and drop the rope. It's so much nicer to be peaceful than right, in the long run.
And the powerless stuff? KKE, I think you know what it means, and I think you also know he isn't using it correctly here. To be perfectly blunt, I think he is flipping you some crap and you don't like it. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
All this on top of a miscarriage...I'd probably let it go if I were you. You both had a pretty serious trauma. Emotions are high, on top of him being a basketcase from his own recovery process. This seems like a good time to acknowledge this to yourself and drop the rope. It's so much nicer to be peaceful than right, in the long run.
I'm going to take on board the advice and let it go. On reflection, what the hell am I getting irritated about anyway? Peaceful is definitely the way to go.
Thank you :-)
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Things go sooo much better when both parties focus only on keeping their side of the street clean. Both have power over their own behavior.
thoughts to keep in mind for the future......
dandylion
thoughts to keep in mind for the future......
dandylion
Thank you :-)
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I'm going to take on board the advice and let it go. On reflection, what the hell am I getting irritated about anyway? Peaceful is definitely the way to go.
Peace to you KKE.
Beth
PS
I never found peace when I was drinking, just numb nothingness.
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Originally Posted by Hammer
Sure. That part of this REALLY sucks.
*WE* are supposed to do everything perfect just to pass the class, *they* are supposed to get praised even if they are barely half-assed.
Reminds me of an old saying about Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire (old dance team). He always got top billing. But as the saying goes -- Ginger did everything Fred did, but she had to do it backwards and in high heels.
Gawd. This stuff is making me soooo ***. Sorry, cannot say ***. The little beaver or muskrat or groundhog whatever that is in curlers will be after me again. Let me try this. I am beginning to question my masculinity in these conversations.
*WE* are supposed to do everything perfect just to pass the class, *they* are supposed to get praised even if they are barely half-assed.
Reminds me of an old saying about Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire (old dance team). He always got top billing. But as the saying goes -- Ginger did everything Fred did, but she had to do it backwards and in high heels.
Gawd. This stuff is making me soooo ***. Sorry, cannot say ***. The little beaver or muskrat or groundhog whatever that is in curlers will be after me again. Let me try this. I am beginning to question my masculinity in these conversations.
Thank you :-)
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Originally Posted by DG0409
I don't do AA, but one thing I read from somebody else on here was that the powerless part should be taken to mean that once we start drinking, we're powerless over alcohol and will be compelled to drink more. But we DO have the power not to take that first drink.
It's not as though we're powerless over everything. That's just making an excuse or playing the victim.
I actually kind of think that the way that AA words that maybe isn't the best.
It's not as though we're powerless over everything. That's just making an excuse or playing the victim.
I actually kind of think that the way that AA words that maybe isn't the best.
I think the one thing I'm getting from you guys about this powerless concept is once the A starts drinking they struggle to stop and are powerless against alcohol. That I can sort of buy as I've seen how obsessive my A is when he starts drinking. It's like there's no stop button. Yeah, I can get that.
Thank you :-)
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I think the one thing I'm getting from you guys about this powerless concept is once the A starts drinking they struggle to stop and are powerless against alcohol. That I can sort of buy as I've seen how obsessive my A is when he starts drinking. It's like there's no stop button. Yeah, I can get that.
drink, that is what I am powerless over.
I am powerless over alcohol, so when I drink that first one, I am powerless to stop.
I do like the comparison to an allergy.
That makes sense to me, I react to alcohol differently than a "normal" drinker.
I got drunk the first time I tried alcohol, and that was the goal every time I drank.
When I told myself,
"Beth, only six beers tonight." It might happen, but more than likely it would not.
How many times did I tell myself, I will not get drunk tonight,
to only wake up hungover the next day.
I am powerless over alcohol.
I am not powerless over my choice to pick up or not.
I might have just confused the whole thing now!
This is my experience with powerlessness.
Beth
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Well, "powerless" as it's used in the Big Book refers to two things--one is the craving, a physical reaction to have more once any alcohol is consumed. The other, though, is a mental obsession that compels the alcoholic to drink even when he or she has every intention not to. That's what causes relapses, and what causes the failure of "white knuckling" it. Alcoholics--the ones that AA was created for--literally cannot simply "not drink". They may be able to "control" it or not drink for a period of time, but sooner or later the insane compulsion to drink takes over. For me, it was like the desire to drink built to an overwhelming level, and I would drink just to make the noises in my own head shut up.
I don't think it's anything that a non-alcoholic can truly understand. But it is very real, and not just a made-up excuse. And some people, even when they are in AA and working the steps will still succumb to it, until they have fully recovered.
I don't think it's anything that a non-alcoholic can truly understand. But it is very real, and not just a made-up excuse. And some people, even when they are in AA and working the steps will still succumb to it, until they have fully recovered.
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I think the concept remains the same.
Powerless over alcohol.
But, I do think everyone's experience is different.
It is a huge concept, being powerless.
when I decided to stop drinking, it was easy for me to say
"I am powerless over alcohol"
because to me, it was obvious.
But, being powerless over my spouse or children?
Much harder to accept and I have to work that all the time.
Even though it makes sense logically,
that I have no power over other people, places and things,
emotionally, it is harder to let them go.
(meaning my children, I could let go of my spouse, but it was only after
a long painful struggle to get him to change from an addict to
"what he is supposed to be").
When I start thinking I can change someone,
I have to remember, no one could change me
until I was ready.
It was me who had to change, no one else.
I am powerless over alcohol and other people, but not powerless over me.
Beth
Powerless over alcohol.
But, I do think everyone's experience is different.
It is a huge concept, being powerless.
when I decided to stop drinking, it was easy for me to say
"I am powerless over alcohol"
because to me, it was obvious.
But, being powerless over my spouse or children?
Much harder to accept and I have to work that all the time.
Even though it makes sense logically,
that I have no power over other people, places and things,
emotionally, it is harder to let them go.
(meaning my children, I could let go of my spouse, but it was only after
a long painful struggle to get him to change from an addict to
"what he is supposed to be").
When I start thinking I can change someone,
I have to remember, no one could change me
until I was ready.
It was me who had to change, no one else.
I am powerless over alcohol and other people, but not powerless over me.
Beth
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