KKE

So in an alanon context are we powerless to their powerlessness?

I think you're right, perhaps I'll never get it fully so maybe I should stop trying and do what so many of you are suggesting and "keep my side of the street clean".

I'll learn from this: don't get so drunk to the point I end up ill all weekend and expect my RA to be ok with it; don't use things from the past as "ammunition" even though he does it often; stop the tit for tat arguments; let him be as powerless as he wants, that's his recovery and understand that letting go doesn't mean weakness.

KKE

I think that really sums it up :-)

Hammer

And dance backwards in high heels with a Big Dreamy Smile . . . and you are there!

Ready for some Mo Teresa?

“People are often unreasonable and self-centered. Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.
If you are honest, people may cheat you. Be honest anyway.
If you find happiness, people may be jealous. Be happy anyway.
The good you do today may be forgotten tomorrow. Do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have and it may never be enough. Give your best anyway.
For you see, in the end, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.”

THIS is what you do for YOU (and God).

wicked

Yes, Lexie has it exactly right.
The mental obsession combined with the craving.

Maybe I should say, everyone's experience of getting to "I am powerless"
is different.

Ah, are you having a problem with powerless over your A?
What do you think your block about Alanon is?

Beth

wicked

I was writing my last post when you posted this!
This is great stuff.
You are getting it now.

Beth

Tuffgirl

I view the whole powerlessness thing as a reminder about what I can control (me) and what I can't (everything/one else).

KKE

I don't understand what you mean by "powerless over your A"?

I think the block is I'm finding an argument against what's sometimes being said. I never say it out loud at meetings because I don't think it's right and I'm aware that they are probably right and its me with the distorted thinking. So for example, the other day they were talking about making amends for your wrong doings and knowing what your wrong doings are, something along those lines. My initial thoughts were "well I've passed that step, I'm always being told how wrong I am and having to apologise for stuff". So immediately I'm on the defensive. If that makes sense?

KKE

I can try but I'm definitely not on mother T's level yet!

LexieCat

We're all powerless over the alcoholic in our lives, just as we are over all the other people on the planet who don't happen to be us.

Making amends involves making AMENDS (i.e., doing our best to set right) things we have done to hurt other people. Which is something we ALL have done. It doesn't involve blaming ourselves or punishing ourselves for mistakes. It's more than just apologizing. It simply recognizes that we have all harmed others and that sometimes guilt and shame about those things can hold us back. Doing what we can to repair the damage can help us to heal.

Trying to understand the steps in the abstract is a tricky proposition. They are intended to be worked in a particular order, in a particular way, for a particular reason. The best way to understand them is to work them with a sponsor, who will guide you through them.

wicked

That you cannot change him or what he does.
I think when you said about letting go doesn't mean weakness.
Like letting go of him and his reactions and his excuse of powerlessness
over every bad behavior.

Making amends is after the other steps.
It is hard to get the concept of amends without
going through the rest of the steps.

Are there beginner meetings?
I know I could use some, I actually do not feel qualified to
talk Alanon even though the program is very close to AA
and follows AA's guidelines.

Before I can make amends, I have to do an inventory.
Searching and fearless.
then, when I take responsibility for MY wrongs
(not what someone else has said I did wrong)
I can make amends, except when the other party
could be harmed.

LOL
so much to talk about.

Beth

I do understand that why you are defensive about that.
No, it is not about what you are told by the alcoholic.
Apologizing when you are not wrong or feel you are not wrong,
is unhealthy and would make anyone defensive.

KKE

I don't really think though that I've done anything to hurt someone so badly that I need to sit down do an inventory and make amends with them. Usually when i upset someone I say sorry relatively quickly and accept responsibility. But like you say, maybe it all needs to be done in order with someone who knows what they're talking about etc.

Oh well, who knows , maybe one day I'll be a seasoned AA and Alanon pro and be telling other people about being powerless and making amends etc! LOL It seems to work for people so it can work for me.

It's funny, I thought my A going to AA and going into recovery would mean things would be fine. Actually it's the beginning isn't it? A whole new set of challenges. Although, I'd rather all this than him on the bottle. That was a million times worse than "what does he mean by powerless?". Mmmm food for thought I guess.

DG0409

Yes, very true. I just mentioned the same thing in the chat room that I thought quitting alcohol and weed would be the hard part, but it turns out it was just the beginning. Now the real work starts learning to live life and deal with emotions sober.

KKE

How's that going?

DG0409

It's going ok. As far as the emotions go, somedays, it's kind of hard. I mean, it's never exactly pleasant to feel bad. But I'm learning to have more respect for my emotions. I'm starting to recognize that some times we feel bad for a reason and it's ok. It's what provides the motivation to change things in our lives or set boundaries where we should. I see a lot of times in my life when I put up with situations that I shouldn't have for too long because I was too busy drinking over the feelings rather than doing things to solve the issues. I think one of the hardest things to face is guilt over things I did when drunk, both to myself and to others. But I try to just use it as a reason never to drink again. Then there's just times when I feel bad because of my own attitude and thoughts. I'm trying to learn to have an attitude of gratitude and to think more positively. I'm starting to see where I have a good heaping of codie tendencies as well. I can spend all day feeling bad about something bf does and then fail to use my own time productively. I have a lot to work on.

As far as life in general, I'm slowly starting to get things in order. It's hard because I feel like there's a mountain of things I need to take care of that were neglected when I was drinking. Stuff with the house, with the cars, my own health, finances, my relationships, my business, my lack of friends. It's overwhelming if I think about it too much, but the nice thing is that I am at least able to make progress on it now rather than building the mountain up higher.

KKE

I suppose you can only tackle it one thing at a time. Sounds like you've got a good idea of what needs to be done. Stay strong.

wicked

Your sobriety date in your sig line says April of 2013?
I think you are doing VERY well for someone so newly sober.
Recognizing being codependent and dealing with life on life's terms, that is
some good work right there.

Yep, I have this as motivation too. I am doing the next right thing as much as I can,
and keeping the past in the past. Every day is another day further away from my bad behavior.
And, another chance to do the right thing.

But, you are not doing any more damage and you now have every day to work on you, making a better life for yourself and loved ones.

Doing good, DG0409!
Beth

DG0409

Thanks KKE & Beth.

wicked

Or, a whole new life?


Amends do not necessarily mean apologies, but it could be an apology to someone.
That is a whole 'nother animal too.

Beth

KKE

Funny you should say that actually. When he first started AA I thought I'd be getting some big apology and some long winded speech about where he went wrong and how badly he'd hurt and rejected me on so many levels over the years. I'm pretty sure it's not really going to happen like that. In my mind now I'm thinking his making amends is the way he is behaving now and how far along he has come. The stuff we are doing now we wouldn't be doing if he was still drinking and taking drugs.

I guess actions speak louder than words.