sadielady

FireBolt, this sentence really struck me:

I think I am afraid of guilt for giving up too soon on a good person if I don't give him this chance. It is his only chance.

No sweetie pie, HE is his only chance. You can never be his chance. You can never be his savior. Your efforts to help him "see the way" will never work if he doesn't really do it himself and will only make you ache.

I'm not a pro, but from recent experience and so much wisdom of others here and in my life, I know this in my core. Maybe at some level you do too?

I don't mean this harshly. I mean it with compassion for you, lovely you, who are hurting and wanting to help someone you love.

Pamel

"Drunkish"... that's an interesting word. As one, I have to say we do not want to be this way. It is a powerful force. The only thing that has helped me at all in these years of sobriety and relapse is to be around "drunkish" people: AA. I don't love all the things that are said, and I am not religious, but we do understand that we are people with an identical problem.

Not yours to solve, ours. I wish you people who love us could "fix" the problem but you can't; save yourselves and your life. Sad to say, but the "alcohol" gene not only kills us but all the people around us.

Tuffgirl

Ok firebolt, you are taking a chance on the "don't quit 5 minutes before the miracle" philosophy. I get that - I did it myself.

Here's the thing - and I learned this the hard way - you gotta let him go do what he says he will do now, and let him do it HIS WAY. And you have to set your own stuff aside while he does it. Detachment, detachment, detachment. It's the only way, and even then, its no guarantee.

You see - your way may be awesome, but it won't be his way. So be careful attaching certain outcomes to the actions you want to see. Sometimes I missed the action because I was so focused on my own way of doing things.

Lastly, do know its ok to end a relationship that isn't working for you. It took my therapist saying this to me - in exactly those terms, for me to finally let go of my concept of marriage and realize drunk or sober, it wasn't working.

sadielady

I adore what you said Tuffgirl. It reminds me of something I really loved that I read once that helped me break away from another incredibly unhealthy relationship in which I didn't want to abandon him. It's from Dear Sugar, the amazing column by Cheryl Strayed. I'm copying the relevant part here -- she is respodning to letters from several women who are struggling with whether to leave men they love who they know in their hearts they need to leave. She says:


.....
But there was in me an awful thing, from almost the very beginning: a tiny clear voice that would not, not matter what I did, stop saying go.

Go, even though you love him.

Go, even though he’s kind and faithful and dear to you.

Go, even though he’s your best friend and you’re his.

Go, even though you can’t imagine your life without him.

Go, even though he adores you and your leaving will devastate him.

Go, even though your friends will be disappointed or surprised or pissed off or all three.

Go, even though you once said you would stay.

Go, even though you’re afraid of being alone.

Go, even though you’re sure no one will ever love you as well as he does.

Go, even though there is nowhere to go.

Go, even though you don’t know exactly why you can’t stay.

Go, because you want to.

Because wanting to leave is enough.

Get a pen. Write that last sentence on your palm, sweet peas—all five of you. Then read it over and over again until your tears have washed it away.

Doing what one wants to do because one wants to do it is hard for a lot of people, but I think it’s particularly hard for women. We are, after all, the gender onto which a giant Here To Serve button has been eternally pinned. We’re expected to nurture and give by the very virtue of our femaleness, to consider other people’s feelings and needs before our own. I’m not opposed to those traits. The people I most admire are in fact nurturing and generous and considerate. Certainly, an ethical and evolved life entails a whole lot of doing things one doesn’t particularly want to do and not doing things one very much does, regardless of gender.

But an ethical and evolved life also entails telling the truth about oneself and living out that truth.

Leaving a relationship because you want to doesn’t exempt you from your obligation to be a decent human being. You can leave and still be a compassionate friend to your partner. Leaving because you want to doesn’t mean you pack your bags the moment there’s strife or struggle or uncertainty. It means that if you yearn to be free of a particular relationship and you feel that yearning lodged within you more firmly than any of the other competing and contrary yearnings are lodged, your desire to leave is not only valid, but probably the right thing to do. Even if someone you love is hurt by that.
............



Lovely people of SR, I see how many of you are aching in this choice. I can't for a minute tell a single one of you to do -- I've left one husband and 2 other men I've loved for similar reasons (only one for sure an A, another most likely). But Sugar is right that you have to be true to yourselves. I'm hoping this resonates with someone who's struggling and these words can help.

sadielady

P.S. Cheryl Strayed / Dear Sugar is amazing. Here's the link to the full column.

DEAR SUGAR, The Rumpus Advice Column #77: The Truth That Lives There - The Rumpus.net

dandylion

Also, I think there is a certain "right fighting" desire deep inside some of us that wants that final satisfaction of saying "See, I told you so. I won. I was right--and you were wrong". Problem is, that still doesn't hold a bit of water for the alcoholic---they still get to keep drinking. All we get is a front row seat for the show.

dandylion

OnawaMiniya

Hmmm. I'm trying to think of what to say, because I understand...I think, some recover, and do how long do I hang in there? What you said above, the first paragraph, last sentence.

So, I'm trying to think of what to say not because I'm trying to think of how to word it, I'm literally trying to think of what to say here!

As far as that goes, it's, you hang in there until you are done hanging in there.

The only suggestion I can come up with is, could you go stay with someone for maybe a few days so you have some space for the moment? Would that be helpful, do you think?

Hugs. I completely empathize with you. Above all else, remember to be kind to yourself and take good care of yourself.

firebolt

Thanks everyone - I can't tell you how much I appreciate you all! I do have places I can stay. I don't want to police him, and getting out would carve that in stone for sure.

It's ok right now - so far, I am not policing, or getting wrapped up in the honeymoon period, or settling back into the house like its mine. I am taking time for me, and keeping some emotional distance. When I first told him i was leaving, I told him it was because I was unhappy because of his drinking - it had just come to a point where I didn't want to live with it anymore. I still don't - I won't.

He's not drinking right now, and of course things are better. This is day 3. He made himself a doc appt for this Friday for an eval. He is staying busy, he has decided which of our friends he can't hang out with because they will always drink and he can't be around it at all. He is facing my family this weekend - yeah, good luck with that dude. He's got to face his family the weekend after that.

I don't know what is going to happen. I am having a hard time thinking about tomorrow. Or a week from now, a month etc. I have 1 foot out the door and one wrong move from him is all I need to close it as far as the booze goes. The outside of the door is probably a big bright beautiful future. Right now, although a MUCH smaller chance, the inside of the door feels the same way.

I always felt he was the perfect match for me - no man has ever fished, camped, or just generally been down for anything like I am - but him. He is genuine, sincere, honest, funny, and holds dear what I do. Is that because he was always drunk?! Dunno. Can I be happy by myself and doing those things alone or with friends - for sure. I loved my single times, and look back at it fondly. Are there good men like him without the monkey on their back? Yup. Plenty of them.

I know what the odds are. Right now, I know that I can't do anything for him. This is something he has to do - every painful bit of it. I can only take care of me, and put my splitting plan into action at the first sign of him not sticking to his word. And that's my plan for each day, because that's as far as I can get in thinking ahead. I just need to keep listening and talking here - and with friends and family. It keeps my brain semi straight. Thanks again all.

Tuffgirl

Firebolt, with all due respect, be careful with this perspective. I keep trying to caution you - its because I went through this myself, several times while living together, and when I finally moved out (he was 6 weeks sober at that point) I stayed another 18 months trying to hang onto the marriage even though we weren't living together.

My experience was early recovery was just as bumpy as the drinking times, if not worse in some respects. He couldn't keep his word, he didn't know how. After years of drinking being his coping skill, he had to relearn new tools for coping that didn't include the usual alcoholic personality characteristics. By 18 months sober, I was really questioning his sanity, even sober.

I thought "not drinking" was the cure. It wasn't. It just unmasked a lot of deeper-seated issues that hadn't been dealt with before. Insecurities, low self-esteem, codependency (yes, alcoholics often are bigger codependents than we are!). It made trying to have an intimate relationship with him impossible. He was the one who divorced me, and sadly, on grounds that he made up. Did he do that on purpose? No...that is just the way his distorted thinking works. He believed everything he made up about the person that he thought I was, no matter what kind of proof I'd present to refute it. It was exhausting.

So when I caution you, it is with my own experiences here, and for that, I admit I could easily be projecting.

Just try not to have expectations, and take it all one day at a time, and know that sometimes it will feel like giant steps back, but then some days it will seem like giant steps forward. The brain takes a while to right itself; thinking can be skewed for months.

I hope you are in Al-Anon; it is through working the steps that I learned the importance of detachment, especially when it came to his sobriety. And when the time came to allow him to pull the plug for good, to let him go, the steps helped me come to terms with that as well.

Good luck. I am really rooting for you here. I wanted nothing more than to have that guy I fell in love with back. It has taken me a few years to come to terms with the fact that he didn't exist in the first place. I made him up; that's on me now.

Peace,
~T

brightstar43

Tuffgirl your words of wisdom are just what I needed to hear. I wanted my ex to be something that he is not...I made him up too, why do we do that? The focus is now back on me to sort my thinking out because I never want to be in this position again.....trying to have a relationship with my ex when he was totally incapable of being in a relationship.

firebolt

Thanks Tuffgirl. I do appreciate it.

I just don't know what to do when he's trying to fix the most prominent broken thing. There might be tons of other broken things about our relationship or ourselves, I just can't see anything but this right now, and nothing else can even be looked at until this is.

I guess that's why I want to wait and see if he can fix this one right now, since he is willing and working hard - I just have to be so careful that I remain healthy through it for myself, or split whether hes still working at it or not. Your caution helps me with that.

Honestly, my expectation is that it will not work out - that he will start slipping and hiding it, and that I will leave the second I find out. I don't have any expectations of him - other than that he will drink - and that is because of what I have learned about the facts of alcoholism, and what I've learned in here. Pessimistic, for sure, but I don't feel that I can let go of that expectation - i need to keep myself in leaving mode in case he can't do this. I know that isn't very supportive of him in his sobriety, or of the fact that he's never tried to stop before, but I can't help it. I'm just feel like I need to watch and wait - and support him to the extent of my ability (which isn't much right now.)

Tuffgirl

Yes, this. Watch and wait. You don't even have to support him if you can't. I know I couldn't, not at first. I can't put into words just how exhausted I was by the time I loaded my car with suitcases, kids, and dogs and bolted.

It is that time period that I found this forum. I was truly in a place of despair. My job was suffering and that scared me the most. I had responsibilities on me that I knew I couldn't fail at. Leaving for me was my survival instincts finally kicking in.

One thing someone said to me during this period was "either way, you are going to be fine" and although at the time, it felt like a cliche, these words now ring true in my life. I am fine. Better than fine now! Life does go on, and although I do miss my ex sometimes, I realize the dysfunction wasn't working for me at all, alcohol fueled or not.

So either way, you are going to be fine. Don't forget that!

Ripper

Firebolt, take care of yourself, is all I can say.
I feel like I'm reading my own thoughts and everyhthng in this thread applies to what I'm going through with my AH.
I often wish that I could have that guy back, the one I fell in love with 17 years ago...a kind, intelligent, funny, charming, thrustworthy, respectful, etc..man...he's still all that, minus the trustworthy and respectful (hiding alcohol and lying about it) is that enough for me to give up? Only I can say if it is....that's my daily struggle.
If you need to watch and wait, then this is what you must do, but take care, and set that line that he cannot cross.

izzyrose05

My XABF has done the same thing with his Facebook. I had him blocked. Lexie is right. It's probably the best but I unblocked him. Screw it, let him see what he screwed up... everyday. He posts his BS sob stories. He is the BEST VICTIM I have ever come across in my 42 years. He's got people tripping all over themselves to pat him on the back. But as I gain strength, the one thing I notice when I can step outside of my emotions and view it all objectively...Is that it comes across ABSOLUTELY and TOTALLY PATHETIC IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY! And If I can see that, I'm so sure many others can too. Im willing to bet even the ones that pretend to be his friend on Facebook would find it unappealing in REAL LIFE. It's easy to find pity on Facebook. Mostly, he's alone. I'm quite sure, no one wants to be a part of that pity party. A 52 year old man singing Happy Birthday to himself on Facebook. I actualy laughed my ass off at how desperately pathetic it all is.

Meanwhile, I spend time with my Mom, my kids and go to work. My facebook is kept positive with not even an underlying tone of anger or bitterness. Not worth it.

And now, I'm starting to enjoy the show. It's almost like a bad reality tv show. I'm kind of entertained. I still miss the short lived good person he was, but now, I know it was all a lie, so even that is starting to diminish.

It gets easier honey. You should probably do what Lexie told you too. I did block him for a while and that helped me keep my head on straight. Especially through the really mean stuff.

Just Keep Swimming... and whatever you do, DONT GET SUCKED IN

Goodluck

dandylion

firebbolt, I know that you envision that if you can just watch him fail to keep his promise that you will, then have an inner peace with upholding your boundary and leaving. Based on experience, I doubt that it will be any easier than it is right now. Believing this, however, gives us on more justification to hold desperately onto a relationship that we have no control over "saving". It is human to do this, though. Most all of us have done it.We hold on until we literally can't.

I visualize this as a good analogy to the alcoholic fighting to the very end to be able to hold onto controlled drinking. To give up the idea of being able to still drink--the alcoholic will use every rationalization possible until they are totally in so much pain that sobriety, finally, seems the only option left---literally, the only one.

As Tuffgirl said, be cautious about predicting an exact outcome.

dandylion