Alcoholic or A-hole? And does it even matter?
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by Wavy 
That is the difference to me whether he is an alcoholic or not. One he cannot control and I can try to separate the behaviour from the person, the other is the behaviour reflecting who the person is. And when I'm trying to work out how my feelings relate to this man that seems an important distinction.
I hear what you're saying about trying to make the distinction about who he is. But the difference between your condition and his, is that his will most likely abuse you and make you feel, at some point, horrible. And right now, you're even starting to question your own instincts and for me, that was the big red flag that my relationship had entered Dysfunctional Land. Your guy might not intend to do it, but even the fact that you believe something may be wrong and he doesn't totally think so will end up making you feel confused, manipulated, etc. I like to think my XABF isn't a horrible person, but he ended up treating me horribly, and that does say something about who he is right now and even his (lack of) ability to have a healthy, mature relationship. It's hard to make the distinction. I know it's hard to maintain good thoughts of your guy, while also seeing this side of him. It's something I'm still struggling with. Reading the experiences of so many others here on SR who've gone through the same thing as been incredibly helpful.
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Join Date: May 2012
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Originally Posted by Wavy
For example, I am dyspraxic. That means that my coordination is all over the place and sometimes my limbs just decide to so something other than I want them to. I regularly fall flat on my face for no apparent reason or walk into door frames that have been in the same place longer than I've been alive. I if broke your most precious vase because all of a sudden I couldn't control my limbs I would hope you would have a different attitude to me than if I was randomly flailing my arms around in a careless manner for the fun of it. In either case you might ask that I stay a good distance away from your other fragile things, but in one case you could understand that I had no control and no ill-will over what happened and the other you could rightly think I was being an thoughtless idiot. That is the difference to me whether he is an alcoholic or not. One he cannot control and I can try to separate the behaviour from the person, the other is the behaviour reflecting who the person is. And when I'm trying to work out how my feelings relate to this man that seems an important distinction.
I understand what you are saying here, but it's really an apples to oranges comparison.
Do you refuse to get help/diagnosis for your disease? Do you purposely feed your disease and refuse treatment when it is available/offered? Or do you look for ways to minimize it's impact on your life? Do you turn a blind eye and ear when it suits you and just ignore the fact that you have it at all?
I spent a long time justifying AH's behavior because he wasn't THAT guy.... and he never had been THAT guy... but the thing is, over time the alcoholism DOES change a person's behavior, brain activity, etc. So he HAD become that guy whether he meant to or not. I would never have thought he could change SO much from the person that I fell in love with.
I couldn't continue to live based on his intentions, because his actions & words weren't matching up.... eventually (no matter what his intentions are) the addiction becomes the #1 priority and everything else has to fit in around that part of them. He may not have MEANT to hurt me but he DID, and that was MY reality so I had to decide what was tolerable in my life.
RAH spent the longest time in early recovery totally confused at how hurt I was & why..... because in his mind he hadn't meant to do it, so it didn't happen. Now that he's sober, when we talk about events from the past & share our POV's about what happened it's like listening to 2 completely different stories.... mine is what happened, his is the way he wanted to remember it at the time so it's very one-sided, self serving & lacking in details. He is often SHOCKED at the differences in our stories & he had a hard time believing me at first; even DD chimed in - "Yes, Dad - this is how it WAS."
Keep reading & keep taking care of YOU!
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It's an interesting discussion -- or it would be, if the reality of living with it weren't so difficult. I am with FireSprite on this being an apples to oranges comparison.
On some level, we ARE the behavior we exhibit. We are what we do, not what we say we'll do, or what we want to do, or what we mean to do. At the end of the day, it is the actions a person takes that defines them.
So I understand where you are coming from. But ultimately, I don't think one CAN separate the behavior from the person, especially if it's hurtful. Just my two cents, though.
On some level, we ARE the behavior we exhibit. We are what we do, not what we say we'll do, or what we want to do, or what we mean to do. At the end of the day, it is the actions a person takes that defines them.
So I understand where you are coming from. But ultimately, I don't think one CAN separate the behavior from the person, especially if it's hurtful. Just my two cents, though.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by Wavy
That is the difference to me whether he is an alcoholic or not. One he cannot control and I can try to separate the behaviour from the person, the other is the behaviour reflecting who the person is. And when I'm trying to work out how my feelings relate to this man that seems an important distinction.
As the alcoholism progressed the first time around, I was pregnant, and my husband got down right nasty with me at times. His drinking certainly didn't excuse any of the ugly things he said to me, whether he remembered or not. And it certainly did make the hurt any less that "he was drinking when he said it and 'didn't mean it.'"
This relapse/time around, he went away for a weekend, went on a bender, and got inappropriate with another woman. He doesn't remember all of it, was passing out for some of it, and says the alcohol led him to make phenominally bad decisions. But it most certainly doesn't give me any measure of sympathy for him or compassion that he did those things "because of the alcohol" while I was home with our two very small children.
I guess the bottom line to me is it doesn't matter if he could control his behavior. It was hurtful. It crossed a line. And his alcoholism or just drinking doesn't really excuse any of it. While we can go down the road of whether he would have made the same choices or decisions if he had not been drinking, the hurt is already caused. To borrow something I've seen from another forum, if you throw a plate on the floor and it breaks, what happens when you say you're sorry to the plate? It's still broken.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Originally Posted by Wavy
I am still trying to work out how I feel about him. My actions to protect myself can happen how ever I feel about him, but how I feel about him depends on his motivations. It does matter to me.
Emotions/feelings aren't facts. You feel what you feel, but they don't have to control what you do. You can think about him the way you would any other inexplicable/uncontrollable phenomenon. Earthquakes, floods, tornados and hurricanes are all naturally occurring destructive forces. The physics that cause them are neither good nor bad, but they wreak the same havoc and destruction either way. Whose "fault" is a hurricane? Does that mean you can't protect yourself from it? Does it matter whether you hate the hurricane or not?
Just some things to think about. You are making a lot of progress. You really just need to accept that there are some things you may NEVER understand or have a full and satisfactory explanation for. And learn to make peace with that.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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I am still trying to work out how I feel about him. My actions to protect myself can happen how ever I feel about him, but how I feel about him depends on his motivations. It does matter to me.
you've been together for EIGHT years and you are still trying to figure out how you feel about him?????
how you feel should NOT be dependent on you think HIS motives are. that's making HIM responsible...your feelings are YOURS. you seem to be hung up on the notion that if you can stick a label on him, Alkie/Not Alki/Jerk/Not Jerk, that will somehow make a difference. you are trying to intellectualize your emotions, trying to overthink this whole thing.
you've been together for EIGHT years and you are still trying to figure out how you feel about him?????
how you feel should NOT be dependent on you think HIS motives are. that's making HIM responsible...your feelings are YOURS. you seem to be hung up on the notion that if you can stick a label on him, Alkie/Not Alki/Jerk/Not Jerk, that will somehow make a difference. you are trying to intellectualize your emotions, trying to overthink this whole thing.
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Join Date: May 2013
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Originally Posted by Wavy
I have referred to my boyfriend on here as ABF, but I’m still not entirely sure whether he is actually an alcoholic or not. He drinks frequently, an unusual week would be only one night a week, this week he has been out drinking the last 5 nights in a row, which is towards the high end of his range. I expect he probably won’t drink tonight, but will possibly drink tomorrow and will definitely drink on Saturday. He goes out to drink, he doesn’t tend to drink at home, so that leaves me alone a lot of the time, although I’m less lonely than I used to be.
He drinks a lot, but volume is not enough to make someone an alcoholic right? Things that make me think that he might be an alcoholic are:
1) He drinks despite negative consequences – it negatively affects our relationship, it destroyed our finances, it has got him a reputation at work, he has gained a great deal of weight (which makes him feel bad about himself).
2) He does things he doesn’t remember while drunk and things that he wouldn’t do sober
3) The amount and frequency of his drinking have been increasing
4) He has told me several times that he wanted to drink less, but has not managed to
5) He doesn’t see any problem with his drinking
6) He comes from an alcoholic background
7) He has referred to himself as ‘possibly being alcoholic in the past’, but doesn’t think he is now, or if he is now doesn’t think it is an issue
8) He never wants to leave a drinking hole before closing time and will order several drinks at last orders to get in as much alcohol as possible
9) He’s told me he can’t imagine his life without alcohol
10) He seems to attract other heavy drinkers as friends and is disdainful of people who don’t drink like he does (including me)
11) Seems to make a lot of those ‘quacking’ noises I hear about!
Reasons why I think he might not be an alcoholic:
1) He can stop after a few drinks if he wants to. For example at the weekend we went out for a meal. He had 2 cocktails, a beer and a spirit and mixer – a very light night for him. After we left the restaurant he wanted to go on to a pub, I said I didn’t want to and so we went home, no more drinking and very little objection on BF’s part. I thought that was something alcoholics were supposed to have a problem with?
2) Sometimes we can go to a pub and he will order a soft drinks
3) Hmm not sure there is a number 3. This list is quite a bit shorter than that first one!
Ergh thats a horrible list when you see it written out like that! So from all that I think he might be an alcoholic, although obviously he doesn’t. If he’s not an alcoholic the only other option is that he’s a selfish A-hole, since it seems he can stop if he wants, he just doesn’t want. Now in my warped little head I think I’d actually prefer him to be an alcoholic because then there would be a reason behind what he does, a compulsion and the opportunity of help if he wants it. There are no rehabs for just being an A-hole!
That’s why I ask if it even matters if he is because I feel like I’d have different opinions on his behaviour depending on what the cause of it was. I actually feel I could have more compassion if he was an alcoholic because everything hasn’t been intentional, its been a fall out of a disease. If he’s a selfish A-hole he knows damn well what he’s doing. Either way I know I have to protect myself from his actions a lot better than I was doing. I guess I’m looking to try to understand what’s going on, its only fairly recently that I’ve actually started facing the idea that he might be an alcoholic, seeing all the implications of that and feeling the sadness that I’ve perpetuated the cycle of alcoholism in my family despite thinking I knew better.
It just doesn't seem like the stereotypical image you have of what makes someone an alcoholic – he’s just going out and having fun with his friends, right? That’s what people do. What’s my problem with that?
What did it take you to realise that your loved one was actually an alcoholic and wasn’t just drinking because it was something they liked to do? How did you know if they really were an alcoholic and did that realisation make any difference to how you felt about them/the situation?
He drinks a lot, but volume is not enough to make someone an alcoholic right? Things that make me think that he might be an alcoholic are:
1) He drinks despite negative consequences – it negatively affects our relationship, it destroyed our finances, it has got him a reputation at work, he has gained a great deal of weight (which makes him feel bad about himself).
2) He does things he doesn’t remember while drunk and things that he wouldn’t do sober
3) The amount and frequency of his drinking have been increasing
4) He has told me several times that he wanted to drink less, but has not managed to
5) He doesn’t see any problem with his drinking
6) He comes from an alcoholic background
7) He has referred to himself as ‘possibly being alcoholic in the past’, but doesn’t think he is now, or if he is now doesn’t think it is an issue
8) He never wants to leave a drinking hole before closing time and will order several drinks at last orders to get in as much alcohol as possible
9) He’s told me he can’t imagine his life without alcohol
10) He seems to attract other heavy drinkers as friends and is disdainful of people who don’t drink like he does (including me)
11) Seems to make a lot of those ‘quacking’ noises I hear about!
Reasons why I think he might not be an alcoholic:
1) He can stop after a few drinks if he wants to. For example at the weekend we went out for a meal. He had 2 cocktails, a beer and a spirit and mixer – a very light night for him. After we left the restaurant he wanted to go on to a pub, I said I didn’t want to and so we went home, no more drinking and very little objection on BF’s part. I thought that was something alcoholics were supposed to have a problem with?
2) Sometimes we can go to a pub and he will order a soft drinks
3) Hmm not sure there is a number 3. This list is quite a bit shorter than that first one!
Ergh thats a horrible list when you see it written out like that! So from all that I think he might be an alcoholic, although obviously he doesn’t. If he’s not an alcoholic the only other option is that he’s a selfish A-hole, since it seems he can stop if he wants, he just doesn’t want. Now in my warped little head I think I’d actually prefer him to be an alcoholic because then there would be a reason behind what he does, a compulsion and the opportunity of help if he wants it. There are no rehabs for just being an A-hole!
That’s why I ask if it even matters if he is because I feel like I’d have different opinions on his behaviour depending on what the cause of it was. I actually feel I could have more compassion if he was an alcoholic because everything hasn’t been intentional, its been a fall out of a disease. If he’s a selfish A-hole he knows damn well what he’s doing. Either way I know I have to protect myself from his actions a lot better than I was doing. I guess I’m looking to try to understand what’s going on, its only fairly recently that I’ve actually started facing the idea that he might be an alcoholic, seeing all the implications of that and feeling the sadness that I’ve perpetuated the cycle of alcoholism in my family despite thinking I knew better.
It just doesn't seem like the stereotypical image you have of what makes someone an alcoholic – he’s just going out and having fun with his friends, right? That’s what people do. What’s my problem with that?
What did it take you to realise that your loved one was actually an alcoholic and wasn’t just drinking because it was something they liked to do? How did you know if they really were an alcoholic and did that realisation make any difference to how you felt about them/the situation?
My alcoholic husband thinks that since he once went a week without that he must not be an alcoholic, he thinks that's proof.
I say bull.
I had a friend on heroin. He would try to stop but feel so sick. Then he'd give in and use again. Just because he stopped for a few days, does not mean he wasn't a heroin addict.
I'm sorry for your pain. I'm learning to focus more on me. It helps. Please keep posting.
Peace.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Oh, and I forgot to address your lists. There are many alcoholics who can NEVER quit drinking (even for short periods of time) or have any control over it once they start. HOWEVER. Let me tell you about my own drinking (and I am definitely an alcoholic, now sober almost five years).
Through the last five years of my drinking (during which I progressed from "yeah, I've got a problem, just gotta get a handle on it" to "OMG, I cannot live this way another day, I'd rather be dead"), I never absolutely lost all control of my drinking--IF we were talking a discrete period of time. If I went to a work-related event, I would have my ladylike two drinks, and then go home and drink my brains out. The last three months of my drinking I had to prepare for an important trial. I knew if I drank the way I wanted to, I would screw it up. For that three months I kept the drinking on what I would call a "short leash"). The day the trial was to begin it was resolved by a plea agreement. I had been totally prepared, but the trial didn't happen. So I went home that day, drank all day, and drank a LOT the next week or two. The day I started my at-home detox I was going through withdrawal so badly at work that someone had to drive me home. That was my "bottom".
So even though I could control it IF I had to, on specific occasions, I could not seem to do it on a long term basis. Ultimately it always went back to insane amounts of alcohol. So your boyfriend's pattern with that sounds quite a bit like mine, and also that of many other alcoholics I know. The URGE to keep going is there--the craving that starts as soon as you have one. But the other part of alcoholism is that mental obsession that leads you to take that first drink, sooner or later, even if you plan not to do that. That is the definition of an alcoholic in AA's Big Book, and it's good enough for me. I comfortably call myself an alcoholic, because I had the obsession (which has been lifted, for me) and because I have the craving for more if I have just one drink. My bet is that on those occasions your boyfriend is having only a couple, or only a few, or when he is not drinking at all, he is intensely uncomfortable, regardless of what he says about that.
Through the last five years of my drinking (during which I progressed from "yeah, I've got a problem, just gotta get a handle on it" to "OMG, I cannot live this way another day, I'd rather be dead"), I never absolutely lost all control of my drinking--IF we were talking a discrete period of time. If I went to a work-related event, I would have my ladylike two drinks, and then go home and drink my brains out. The last three months of my drinking I had to prepare for an important trial. I knew if I drank the way I wanted to, I would screw it up. For that three months I kept the drinking on what I would call a "short leash"). The day the trial was to begin it was resolved by a plea agreement. I had been totally prepared, but the trial didn't happen. So I went home that day, drank all day, and drank a LOT the next week or two. The day I started my at-home detox I was going through withdrawal so badly at work that someone had to drive me home. That was my "bottom".
So even though I could control it IF I had to, on specific occasions, I could not seem to do it on a long term basis. Ultimately it always went back to insane amounts of alcohol. So your boyfriend's pattern with that sounds quite a bit like mine, and also that of many other alcoholics I know. The URGE to keep going is there--the craving that starts as soon as you have one. But the other part of alcoholism is that mental obsession that leads you to take that first drink, sooner or later, even if you plan not to do that. That is the definition of an alcoholic in AA's Big Book, and it's good enough for me. I comfortably call myself an alcoholic, because I had the obsession (which has been lifted, for me) and because I have the craving for more if I have just one drink. My bet is that on those occasions your boyfriend is having only a couple, or only a few, or when he is not drinking at all, he is intensely uncomfortable, regardless of what he says about that.
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That’s why I ask if it even matters if he is because I feel like I’d have different opinions on his behaviour depending on what the cause of it was. I actually feel I could have more compassion if he was an alcoholic because everything hasn’t been intentional, its been a fall out of a disease.
if I broke your most precious vase because all of a sudden I couldn't control my limbs I would hope you would have a different attitude to me than if I was randomly flailing my arms around in a careless manner for the fun of it. In either case you might ask that I stay a good distance away from your other fragile things, but in one case you could understand that I had no control and no ill-will over what happened and the other you could rightly think I was being an thoughtless idiot.
That is the difference to me whether he is an alcoholic or not. One he cannot control and I can try to separate the behaviour from the person, the other is the behaviour reflecting who the person is. And when I'm trying to work out how my feelings relate to this man that seems an important distinction.
Alcoholism can be controlled. The alcoholic can choose to never take a drink again.
Do you think someone with a diagnosis of cancer will turn down treatment that might save their lives? That is what an alcoholic does when they keep taking that one more drink.
It is their choice. They are accountable for their behavior when drinking. They can choose to never take another drink and to work their recovery. Or not.
We often here on SR hear about the 3 C's: you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.
I think it should be the 3 C's and one "O": you don't have to own it.
Wavy, you wrote "In either case you might ask that I stay a good distance away from your fragile things". I think that, in this relationship, YOU are the "fragile thing", and whatever the reason for his behavior, you need to be away from and protected from his damaging actions.
ShootingStar1
if I broke your most precious vase because all of a sudden I couldn't control my limbs I would hope you would have a different attitude to me than if I was randomly flailing my arms around in a careless manner for the fun of it. In either case you might ask that I stay a good distance away from your other fragile things, but in one case you could understand that I had no control and no ill-will over what happened and the other you could rightly think I was being an thoughtless idiot.
That is the difference to me whether he is an alcoholic or not. One he cannot control and I can try to separate the behaviour from the person, the other is the behaviour reflecting who the person is. And when I'm trying to work out how my feelings relate to this man that seems an important distinction.
Alcoholism can be controlled. The alcoholic can choose to never take a drink again.
Do you think someone with a diagnosis of cancer will turn down treatment that might save their lives? That is what an alcoholic does when they keep taking that one more drink.
It is their choice. They are accountable for their behavior when drinking. They can choose to never take another drink and to work their recovery. Or not.
We often here on SR hear about the 3 C's: you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.
I think it should be the 3 C's and one "O": you don't have to own it.
Wavy, you wrote "In either case you might ask that I stay a good distance away from your fragile things". I think that, in this relationship, YOU are the "fragile thing", and whatever the reason for his behavior, you need to be away from and protected from his damaging actions.
ShootingStar1
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 257
There is so much helpful stuff from all of you, I'm so grateful (y'all are going on my gratitude list tonight!). Its all pretty overwhelming and I guess its taking its sweet time to sink in. I haven't got long on the computer so I can't reply in detail right now, but I'll come back and reply properly once I have time and its all soaked in a bit. I think I'm still a little bit in denial (or a lot! I don't know!) - the realisation that he truly could be an alcoholic is just a lot to process on its own, without everything else.
Quickly in response to AnvilheadII - for nearly all of that eight years I (thought) I knew exactly how I felt about him. Madly, crazy in love no matter what. After starting to work on myself and learning so much about codependancy and alcoholism and looking into my past I'm questioning the nature and healthiness of my feelings and looking at everything in a new light, so I'm trying to figure out how I feel about him and how to relate to him with all this new insight and the confusion it brings.
Quickly in response to AnvilheadII - for nearly all of that eight years I (thought) I knew exactly how I felt about him. Madly, crazy in love no matter what. After starting to work on myself and learning so much about codependancy and alcoholism and looking into my past I'm questioning the nature and healthiness of my feelings and looking at everything in a new light, so I'm trying to figure out how I feel about him and how to relate to him with all this new insight and the confusion it brings.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Posts: 257
I think what some of you are saying about looking for a label is probably true. It I can find a label I can intellectualize it and reason it out. But you remind me he is not a reasonable being and this is not a situation based on reason right now. I feel like if I could understand what was going on then I’d be able to know the ‘right thing’ to do instead of feeling all this confusion. I guess I feel like everyone else can see the ‘right thing’ for me, I’ve not met a single person who thinks staying is a good idea – hell I don’t think staying is a good idea, yet there is still something that stops me from breaking away. And I guess I think that if I can give the things I feel about him names I’ll somehow see the best route of action. Sometimes it seems like I know the best route of action – leaving, and other times I’m back in the land of indecision, not wanting to let go of those ‘good’ bits as if they could be separated from the whole.
He’s been out drinking 7 of the last 9 days, staying out all night long with no explanation for two of those, and being particularly obnoxious the last time. At the time I felt like I couldn’t live like that any longer, that I knew I needed to be away from all this. Then we had one quite nice day yesterday and it seems to melt my resolve. A whole week of drinking and obnoxiousness brushed away by one ‘quite nice day’?! I feel so frustrated with myself – like I just want to take me by the shoulders give me a good shake and knock some sense into me!
And again feelings this morning of ‘what if this is happiness and I just don’t realise it?’ and ‘Maybe my idea of happiness is pie in the sky and unrealistic?’ (something ABF likes to tell me) and ‘Maybe I’m just ungrateful.’ Once I got to the ungrateful part I knew I was back in the unhealthy thinking from growing up with alcoholism and I could step away from my thoughts a little. But it is true, I don’t know what happiness looks like – how will I know if I have it? But I can safely say I don’t have it now.
I feel like I’m stuck in the middle of having learnt enough to see that things are wrong, but not learnt enough to be able to know what to do or how to be different. And it’s frustrating because I can watch myself do something unhealthy and know it’s unhealthy, but not have the alternative lined up in my head yet. I have the awareness bit growing, but the action bit is still lacking. Acceptance is at vastly different levels depending on which part of my life we’re talking about.
I’ve been thinking about getting a sponsor for a while – I think getting to the fourth step inventory would be really good for me. I’m a wuss about asking anyone tho – too scared of rejection. There is a lady I’d like to ask, but the courage is lacking.
He’s been out drinking 7 of the last 9 days, staying out all night long with no explanation for two of those, and being particularly obnoxious the last time. At the time I felt like I couldn’t live like that any longer, that I knew I needed to be away from all this. Then we had one quite nice day yesterday and it seems to melt my resolve. A whole week of drinking and obnoxiousness brushed away by one ‘quite nice day’?! I feel so frustrated with myself – like I just want to take me by the shoulders give me a good shake and knock some sense into me!
And again feelings this morning of ‘what if this is happiness and I just don’t realise it?’ and ‘Maybe my idea of happiness is pie in the sky and unrealistic?’ (something ABF likes to tell me) and ‘Maybe I’m just ungrateful.’ Once I got to the ungrateful part I knew I was back in the unhealthy thinking from growing up with alcoholism and I could step away from my thoughts a little. But it is true, I don’t know what happiness looks like – how will I know if I have it? But I can safely say I don’t have it now.
I feel like I’m stuck in the middle of having learnt enough to see that things are wrong, but not learnt enough to be able to know what to do or how to be different. And it’s frustrating because I can watch myself do something unhealthy and know it’s unhealthy, but not have the alternative lined up in my head yet. I have the awareness bit growing, but the action bit is still lacking. Acceptance is at vastly different levels depending on which part of my life we’re talking about.
I’ve been thinking about getting a sponsor for a while – I think getting to the fourth step inventory would be really good for me. I’m a wuss about asking anyone tho – too scared of rejection. There is a lady I’d like to ask, but the courage is lacking.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I think a sponsor and Step work is a VERY good idea--it will help you clarify your thinking.
Most people consider it a great honor to be asked to sponsor someone. Occasionally someone will not be in a position to do it--too many sponsees already, something big going on in their personal life, etc.--so having someone say, "I'm sorry, I can't" should not be considered a rejection. If you admire this person and she is unable to sponsor you, ask if she has any suggestions who else you might ask. Often people who are active in Al-Anon have a pretty good idea who might make a good sponsor.
One other thing to keep in mind, is that ANY big decision we make--changing jobs, moving, having children--comes without guarantees. If we wait until we are CERTAIN how something will turn out, we would never change ANYTHING. So one thing that everyone needs to learn to get comfortable with, I think, if they hope to have a happy life, is to learn to accept that life is inherently uncertain. All we can do is to make the best choices we can with the information available. Praying for guidance doesn't hurt, either. And remember, even making no change is a CHOICE.
Most people consider it a great honor to be asked to sponsor someone. Occasionally someone will not be in a position to do it--too many sponsees already, something big going on in their personal life, etc.--so having someone say, "I'm sorry, I can't" should not be considered a rejection. If you admire this person and she is unable to sponsor you, ask if she has any suggestions who else you might ask. Often people who are active in Al-Anon have a pretty good idea who might make a good sponsor.
One other thing to keep in mind, is that ANY big decision we make--changing jobs, moving, having children--comes without guarantees. If we wait until we are CERTAIN how something will turn out, we would never change ANYTHING. So one thing that everyone needs to learn to get comfortable with, I think, if they hope to have a happy life, is to learn to accept that life is inherently uncertain. All we can do is to make the best choices we can with the information available. Praying for guidance doesn't hurt, either. And remember, even making no change is a CHOICE.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by Wavy
And again feelings this morning of ‘what if this is happiness and I just don’t realise it?’ and ‘Maybe my idea of happiness is pie in the sky and unrealistic?’ (something ABF likes to tell me) and ‘Maybe I’m just ungrateful.’ Once I got to the ungrateful part I knew I was back in the unhealthy thinking from growing up with alcoholism and I could step away from my thoughts a little.
Your ABF telling you that your idea of happiness is "unrealistic" sounds very hurtful, and in my opinion, manipulative and like a deflection of his issues. I'm glad you can see that this is unhealthy thinking. My XABF started making similar comments to me, calling me "judgmental" about drinkers and saying I take life "too seriously." In the moment, it stung and I began to question myself. I clearly remember the smirk on his face as he said those things to me, as if he got a great deal of satisfaction from putting me down. One month into no contact, I can see how those stabs at me were because of his own insecurity, and maybe even guilt (?)
Sounds like you are seeing the light through his comments. Stay strong
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,796
Originally Posted by hydrogirl
So which, in your world, would be better. An active alcoholic who chooses to not enter recovery because he is in denial about his disease, or someone who just doesn't give a flip?
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 257
You hit it on the head LexieCat, I'm very uncomfortable with uncertainty, I get very anxious when I don't know what's going on. So yes I guess if I'm going to be healthy I'm going to have to learn to deal with it, I just don't know how yet!
trixie56 I think you are right that him saying my idea of happiness is unrealistic is a reflection on him, he doesn't want to lose me, but doesn't want to do any of the changes that would be needed for me to have my idea of happiness and so he tries to bring my expectations of happiness back to what he wants to deliver. He has confused me that way an awful lot, but I am starting to see the times when he wants me to take on his reality, rather than live my own.
AnvilheadII - quite a nice day. Its nothing particularly special just quiet with no arguments, name calling, sulking or insinuations. Its us having a laugh and being comfortable with each other. Its uneventful and calm. Its those times that we click together so perfectly that its hard to imagine life any other way, even tho I know everything else is messed up.
trixie56 I think you are right that him saying my idea of happiness is unrealistic is a reflection on him, he doesn't want to lose me, but doesn't want to do any of the changes that would be needed for me to have my idea of happiness and so he tries to bring my expectations of happiness back to what he wants to deliver. He has confused me that way an awful lot, but I am starting to see the times when he wants me to take on his reality, rather than live my own.
AnvilheadII - quite a nice day. Its nothing particularly special just quiet with no arguments, name calling, sulking or insinuations. Its us having a laugh and being comfortable with each other. Its uneventful and calm. Its those times that we click together so perfectly that its hard to imagine life any other way, even tho I know everything else is messed up.
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