fedupbeyondall

Hijack away dreams....And yes I'm addicted to SR as well. I'm at work and typing away....just not on what I should be. HA

DG0409

Smoking is just as much of an addiction. It doesn't make his drinking any more or any less of an addiction, and is irrelevant to that topic. He's just trying to distract from the point.

Having said that, I really suggest you take some time to learn about YOUR addiction. Smoking kills 50% of people who don't quit. Pretty scary odds in my opinion. And the other 50% still face smoking related health issues, waste a bunch of money and have the hassle of feeding their addiction.

Try taking a look at the Nicotine/smoking section here. Nicotine/Smoking - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

I know that quitting smoking feels really scary when you're thinking about it (at least it did for me). But I am SO GLAD that I quit.

If you want support in quitting, feel free to PM me.

LexieCat

Another smoker (and alcoholic) here, weighing in.

I agree that this is a red herring. Your smoking obviously is not affecting him, because he smokes, too. His drinking DOES affect you, profoundly.

I've talked to many, many people who felt that giving up smoking was much harder than giving up drinking. I know that that's how it feels to me, anyway. Someday I hope to quit. Not doing it today. That's about all I can say about it--it most DEFINITELY is addictive, but it doesn't alter my thinking in the same way that drinking did.

soberlicious

Obesity is indeed as much of a health risk. There are actually cases where parents have been investigated by child protective services because their children are morbidly obese. That's how people die early. I'm trying to avoid that with my kids. It's kind of serious.


I also choose to draw the line at unstable abusive behavior toward my children, but we could certainly be having this discussion outside of addiction since unfortunately unstable abusive behavior happens daily to millions of children in the absence of any substance use.

No parents are perfect of course, but I think it's unfortunate when we are talking about choosing which addictions to expose them to.

"It's ok that you breathe in my smoke, because I protect you from being beaten by your drunk father." How bout neither? There's a novel idea.

wiscsober

I hope you find some sort of freedom you are looking for.

legna

Forgive me for taking this in a different direction but Lexie, knowing that you are an alcoholic and the recovery method you use (from other posts) let me throw this out there:

So, does his drinking affect her profoundly or does she allow it affect her profoundly?

I mean if I accept that the alcoholic in my life is an alcoholic without any illusions that I'm going to change this person, then I come to peace with it and stay or I resolve that I must leave the situation and the relationship. Either way, their alcoholism no longer affects me.

I'm not suggesting that it's easy but as the saying I know you are well aware of: It's simple but not easy. Thoughts?

BlueSkies1

I'll have a go at this.
She allows it to affect her profoundly.
However! She's in a marriage. A relationship that is supposed to be, and I assume is, based on caring, love, compassion, respect, security, and promises made.
There can be a few other things going on here. One is that if the drinker is a far more able manipulator. What if the other person is naïve? What if they believe in people, like most of us do? What if they don't see if someone is lying to them?
I wouldn't want this fact, that she allows it to affect her, be some kind of out for a person with bad behavior, fully knowing they treat others as less-than. A psychopath could run amok with that philosophy, and they surely do.

I also don't think just because a child may "allow" a parent to treat them badly, that the parent is somehow not at fault. Same goes for adulthood actually. We can be gullible and naïve and want to believe in others, the same as children.
One very manipulative street-smart person could pull the wool over a naïve person's eyes and then say to themselves: No guilt here for anything I've ever done, afterall, they ALLOWED it to happen to them.
Where would it end?
It's psychopathic to not take the responsibility for one's actions. Non-humanitarian at the least. People could excuse any behavior at all...even murder. Well it's their fault that they were upset while I was torturing them! They allowed themselves to get upset!

m1k3

Nicotine is an addiction, it is one of the hardest things in the world to quit. So, while he may be quacking and diverting from his own issues he is correct in saying you are an addict.

I quit nicotine for 15 years, started up again for about 8 months and then quit again 3 months ago. It sucked, it was terrible and I'm so glad I did it. Hope I'm good for another 15 years. I used the smoking/nicotine forum here to help me quit. It was a big help.

Your friend,

LexieCat

I'm suggesting that alcoholism, as an addiction, profoundly affects everyone within its general vicinity. It affects the alcoholic's employer, friends, family, and society in general. It is no answer to say that they all "allow" the alcoholic's addiction to affect them. The discussion was whether one was comparable to the other as a point of argument: "Well, you smoke, which is no different from my drinking." In that relationship, they are not comparable in terms of the EFFECT on the other person. If he were a non-smoker, and had to breathe second-hand smoke involuntarily, then there would be at least some basis for comparison.

legna

Of course, you'll get no argument from me that these things are critical to a successful marriage and that a lack of these qualities is a problem. However, if my partner has made a choice to continue drinking and I am not, cannot or will not accept this in my life, then I am faced with a singular decision over which I have control. I can leave the relationship.

Again, yes, yes and yes. Which is why we see the 'AH-HA' moments so frequently here. A person shows up here, thinking that they must be going crazy and discovers through our experience strength and hope that they are not crazy and that while they may be powerless over another's actions, they are not powerless over their own.

I distance myself from psychopaths and while they shall certainly continue to run amok, they will have to do it far away from me.

Here we are disagreeing somewhat. While one might carry ones gullibility and naivety into adulthood, we are responsible for our education as adults. Now it is true that we may be poorly suited to educate ourselves but that's where Al-Anon and places like SR come into play.

Interestingly, I have survived torture while in the military. I found that it was imperative to my continued survival to detach the act from the person. What I experienced became independent of the person doing the torturing. Eventually I learned to forgive. That said, I was not at liberty to leave the torture. That is not the same for someone in a relationship...be it a spouse, a boss, etc.

ZenMe

fedupbeyondall,

Once you quit smoking the next thing to be attacked will be your coffee frappuccino things you have twice a week.

him - "oh ok so I don't get to drink anything I enjoy? Yet you get to enjoy your little cold coffee drinks and I get squat? wth, and don't tell me you aren't addicted to them, you can't go a day without drinking one!, if you quit your coffee drinks I will quit alcohol"

next day - he's had a drink already, you don't even remember or care anymore because you've detached. =).

fedupbeyondall

Zenme,

You're so right. Again it goes back to nothing I do will change his actions. I do what I do, for me, no one else. There will always be something for him to point at in an effort to take focus away from him. What's funny about that, is if he isn't the center of attention most of the time he pouts......you would think he would like that the conversation was focused on him. There is just no pleasing some people.

Danae

I agree with those who say it is a diversion, so this doesn't really matter unless you want to think about it. Arguing with him is clearly pointless as well. But my take is:

My father was a compulsive chain smoker (many many packs a day) as well as a long-time alcoholic.

If we could have gotten him to quit one of the addictions--it would have been unanimous: quit drinking!

The drinking distorted his behavior, caused him to be verbally abusive and was overall damaging to everyone. The second-hand smoke was no picnic--but it didn't come with the all special dividends that alcohol brought to our family.

LexieCat

I think anyone who lives with an alcoholic would agree with you, Danae. If you had to pick one, the one that does the most harm to everyone's existence, on a day-to-day basis, it would be the drinking. Hands down. Ideally, nobody would have to deal with either one, but if you HAD to choose only one, it would be that.

Florence

I agree that this is an apples and oranges conversation. Sugar is addictive. Are we going to argue now that eating a couple of mini candy bars at the office is equivalent to alcoholism?

He's trying to deflect responsibility for his actions by criticizing you.

This is not an either/or conversation, this is a both/and conversation. At this time, BOTH smoking AND alcoholism are having a negative effect on your health and relationships. But if we're talking degrees here, he has no legs to stand on and he knows it. That's why he's whipping out the smoke and mirrors, to confuse and deflect your feelings and somehow make you culpable.

Because your smoking and his drinking are TOTALLY linked, I'm sure.

socallednormal

There's a really simple screening tool for alcoholism called CAGE. It's certainly not perfect, but it can be used to determine if a more extensive assessment is needed. I pasted it below and replaced the word "drinking" with "smoking." Maybe try it and see what you score? Depending on the source, either one or two "yes" answers shows a strong possibility of addiction.

1. Have you ever felt you needed to Cut down on your smoking?
2. Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your smoking?
3. Have you ever felt Guilty about smoking?
4. Have you ever felt you needed a smoke first thing in the morning (Eye-opener)?

Oh, and for those making comparisons to candy or sugar drinks, maybe try it with those and see what you score?

DarkDays

When i was drinking, used to look at smokers in disgust, now I am sober I think drinking is a far far worse habit. Smokers take a chance with themselves, but drinkers cause destruction and carnage everywhere, well they do in the uk anyway.

fedupbeyondall

Well of course they are. He drinks because I smoke. Poor thing. I'm kind of jealous of him. I want to live in a world where nothing is the fault of my choices.

Let me note, I am fully aware of my smoking addiction. I know I have an issue and I need to stop. The major difference here is that my AH doesn't think his drinking is a problem. Because 5 liters of vodka a week isn't a problem for anyone.

soberlicious

Of course he's trying to deflect...I said that in my first post, but that does not mean that he doesn't have a good point. They both have an addiction. And they are each protecting their respective addictions. He is basically saying to her, "You are also doing something harmful, that you refuse to stop doing" and hes right. The fact that his addiction currently wreaks more havoc is simply a diversion in her favor. The fact is, they both have an addiction. To say "but yours is worse" is a little like "I know you are, but what am I?"

So the logic here is you should not quit sucking smoke into your lungs to make a point? To continue doing something that can potentially kill you because the idiot that made the suggestion has ulterior motives anyway, and he will continue to take away even the most basic human rights from you, like showering or using the bathroom. The sublime to the ridiculous is but a step. Keep huffin those butts, that'll show him. Sounds vaguely like the thought process of an addicted individual to me.

I still can't believe that in 2013 so many still believe that smoking is no big deal.

DreamsofSerenity

I was trying to say in four posts what Lexie said in four sentences. And I wasn't even answering the OP's original question because I am trying to do too many things at once. My SR addicition is out of hand. I promised myself I'd stay off ALL day and I am back two hours later. I'm writing this while in line at the grocery store.

This is kind of a touchy subject to me because I have a few friends who smoke and they are quite frankly treated like crap by society. My own children will walk by a smoker and whisper at me "Mom, that person is SMOKING", like they are committing murder or something. Meanwhile right around the corner are people sitting around a table getting hammered, and society apparently has no problem with this whatsoever.