LexieCat

I kinda think we are talking about apples and oranges. Sure, it makes sense to try to avoid putting yourself in situations where you might be vulnerable. That said, it doesn't mean anyone got what was coming to him/her, that they were less hurt by it, or that the person victimizing them was less wrong for doing so.

I doubt whether anyone posting here who feels it's foolish to behave in certain ways would be less than compassionate to a victimized child or other loved one simply because they put themselves in a vulnerable position. I would certainly hope not, anyway.

Ever dash back into your house to grab something, leaving your keys in the ignition? If your car got stolen, you might be kicking yourself for leaving the keys in the car, but you certainly weren't asking for your car to get stolen. Nor would it make you any less the victim of car theft, nor would it let the thief off the hook.

ZenMe

So no one thinks she could be using this situation to manipulate him?

bigsombrero

She definitely could be. But if the OP (or anyone else here) assumes that, he is putting himself in a pretty bad spot.

Basically he's between a rock and a hard place. Sounds like he's got two choices: play the fool, or play the jackass. Neither one is a good option.

I think this brings light to the larger discussion of co-dependency itself. The OP's alcoholic wife has complete control over his brain right now. The life he is living is not his own. It's hers.

Sueski

I have to agree that in an ideal world, we wouldn't have to protect ourselves against predators of ANY type. I absolutely believe that it is NOT the victim's fault. However, and this to me is huge, we live in the real world where there are bad people against whom we need to protect ourselves. Doesn't mean that you're not a victim if you are raped, robbed, burgled, identity-thefted, etc., it just means that protecting ourselves is simply responsible behavior. I lock my doors, password-protect my accounts, keep an eye on my surroundings. I've actually gotten off an elevator because some guy gave me a bad vibe. Paranoid? Sure, but hey, from where I sit, that is just part of being a woman in this world. Unfortunate, but so are many other things we have to deal with.

A group of friends and I were assaulted (groped, pinned against walls, and that sort of thing) by a group of boys in my junior high. When my mother finally got out of me what was going on and reported it to the principal, she was informed that I was a liar. No investigation. No nothing. This is not uncommon. It makes me sick even now to think about this. Fairly recently, I had a problem with unwanted attention (nothing physical) from a contractor at my place of employment. The only reason, and I am absolutely serious, the ONLY reason I was willing to go forward with a complaint was that I had two witnesses to inappropriate behavior and they were both willing to come forward. I was believed, he is gone, problem solved, but this is a small example of how women weigh the unavoidable bs that goes along with reporting against the gravity of the behavior. I don't know anyone who hasn't gone through this in some fashion.

Now, the real issue: combine all this horribly complicated stuff around sexual harassment/assault with the horribly complicated stuff that comes with marriage to an active alcoholic. The poor OP is obviously aware of the stuff women go through, and wants to support his wife. Problem is that alcoholics lie. Katie is right. It's all about trust. Alcoholics behave badly and slant stories to cover themselves. There is a history of inappropriate behavior around other men with this particular woman. So, yes she may very well be telling the truth, but she may only be telling part of it, or even be fabricating to cover her a$$. There are valid reasons for her to report, and valid reasons for her not to report.

I fully understand why he is having trust issues. I sure don't have any answers, but I sympathize with his position.

lillamy

Oh absolutely she could. No doubt.

Here's the thing though: Now, she's saying sexual harassment and not assault, so slightly different animal. But the biggest reason why people (men and women) don't report sexual assault is (if you ask them) that they are afraid of not being believed.

So here's my thinking: If she was sexually harassed and her husband says "I'm really sorry that happened to you" that's what she needs to hear right now if she's telling the truth. If she's lying, the only thing that's lost is that he's been unnecessarily caring. And I know as codies we don't want to be that. But I think there are cases where you have to pick your poison.

I also completely agree with TG -- I teach my girls those exact same things (even though they're not old enough to drink or go out to bars yet): Travel in packs. Don't trust strangers. Don't ever leave a friend behind. If something feels iffy, run like hell. That's not blaming the victim -- that's being realistic about the rules of being a woman.

LexieCat

Yeah, that's pretty much what it boils down to for me, too. Nobody wants to feel they were taken for a fool if they were lied to. But if it doesn't cost you anything to accept something at face value--you aren't somehow risking money or your health or anything else by accepting something as being true--then I think there's no harm done by letting it pass without satisfying yourself beyond a reasonable doubt of its truth.

Even a broken clock tells the truth twice a day.

PippiLngstockng

This is a very good and thoughtful discussion you folks are having. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness you bring here.

I was violently assaulted and raped by a stranger when I was 25. When I got out of the hospital, one of the first things I did was read every book I could find that would tell me what places to avoid so that I could try to protect myself in the future. Stay away from parking lots and garages, elevators, check your car out before getting inside - that kind of thing.

So don't go to bars, get drunk and talk to strange guys either. All the places and people I have spent the last 22 years avoiding, and worth it to never ever go through something even remotely like that again.

So everyone here be careful too.

But about the OP. I believe her, because it is such an ordeal to tell anyone (because people won't necessarily believe you) that she is probably going through something. Post traumatic stress can take a little while to surface, and it can last a lifetime. Probably for an alcoholic, would lead to more drinking as you would really want to self medicate. Could also be a great reason to quit.

So, she needs to get into counselling asap and deal with the post trauma and realize how this is possibly affecting her. And realize she has to protect herself.

But for the OP. living with my post traumatic stress was a huge ordeal for my fiance at the time, and I was a sweetheart before. But that put an enormous strain on our relationship.

Then, the trust thing. Really, if you can't trust someone, the relationship is dead, imho. I stopped trusting my AH in 2003 and it took 9 years to get myself out of that relationship. But when I stopped trusting, I retreated emotionally from my husband and starting actually really not liking him at all. Just with lots of young children it was hard to leave.

I would say point your AW to some good therapists and a women's support group.

Then return the focus on you. You can't trust her? Is this how you want to be living your one precious life?

m1k3

I've been reading this had have mixed feelings about whole thing.

The first is that active alcoholics lie, all of them. By the time I left my wife I didn't believe her if she said the sun was shining.

The second is due to her drinking she may have put herself in a bad position. Again, by the time I left my attitude would have been too bad, your problem, and what the hell were you doing there anyway I thought we were married.

Lastly, as the father of two daughters I understand the misogynistic behavior of many men and that this was totally wrong.

So, from a trust point of view at the end I wouldn't believe her and wouldn't have cared.

Your friend,

fluffyflea

It sounds like you put up with alot of unacceptable behaviour Piratessmile. So my thought is when we do that we are in fact enabling that person.

Carlotta

I was re reading your original post and it struck me that you said you did not feel supportive at all. It looks like your relationship is over and beyond repair. There is obviously no more romantic love neither is there any trust, respect or friendship left.
I am still friend with my alcoholic ex (not the abusive one, the other) and I know that if he got "jumped" I would be supportive even if he had been out there drinking, I would not check base about whether I was enabling him or not by caring.
I would be there for him because I care about him and he would need a friend (and despite his drinking, he has been there for me even after our breakup when I needed a friend too )
I bet that if you made a list of assets and liabilities in your marriage, the liabilities way outweigh the positive. So the question to ask yourself is why are you staying if there is nothing left not even friendship?
You deserve freedom from the drama and madness and to find contentment Piratesmile. It might be time now to talk again to your lawyer and move on with your life.
Change can be scary and sometimes we stay in a known bad place rather than face uncertainty. Taking a leap of faith can be scary but it is also worth it especially when you have nothing left to lose.

Take care of yourself and your little one.

Crazed

Tough situation- how does one trust and support when a pattern of untrustworthiness has been demonstrated? Without going into details, my EXAG was date raped while drunk in college. Over the years several details (big ones) about the episode changed (several times). Based on these inconsistencies, and her pattern of blatant lying and manipulation, there is a small fiber of doubt buried deep in my mind. I feel terrible at times for this doubt, and wish it was not there. So why would one lie about this, one may ask? Because she had a boyfriend at the time, and it may have been easier to place all blame on the other party than admit her complicity in the situation. It removes all personal accountability, and if she knew boyfriend (husband) would perhaps find out she has taken appropriate preemptive measures. The best defense is sometimes good offense. This is not far off from what we see active alcoholics do on a daily basis- behave badly, deny accountability, shift blame and become the victim.

I equate it to the following. Lets assume you have just enough beer to be over the legal limit to drive. Then you drive home, someone runs a yellow light and drives into the side of your car. Once it is determined that you are over the drinking limit, the accident will be viewed as your fault. Even if not found guilty of causing the accident, there will always be the shadow of doubt cast ON YOU. Not my rules, but society's rules.

Something similar happened recently when I saw the aftermath of an accident between a minivan and a low-rider Honda with the racing wheels, the chain license plate holder, the fire extinguisher in the window, and the big coffee-can-looking mufflers. And there stood the owner of the Honda, pants hanging down to where his butt-crack would have been showing had it not been for his boxers being pulled up so high. And all I thought was "The accident is that punk's fault." .... Even though I know nothing about the cause of the accident. The other thing I though was "why are his pants hanging so low, he is wearing a belt!"

I know nothing about what transpired about your AWs evening at the bar, except from what she relayed to you and you relayed to us in the original post. Either way, if she was assaulted I hope she talks with a professional about it, and takes whatever steps she feels necessary (legal action, human resources, etc). These actions are all hers, not yours. And as her husband, I would stand by her, even if there is doubt. And for you, I am sorry you are here.

marie1960

this woman is playing with fire.

One of these times she is going to burn the house down.

pirate, it would be in your best interest to be properly insured.

Chances are, she will continue down her destructive path.

What are you doing for yourself pirate?

brownhorse

I was going to say the same thing Marie! I agree with anvil and have a very similar situation happen with my XAH. I believed him because it was easier than finding out the truth. He told me some story about a drunk girl wandering into his hotel room, taking a shower, and then leaving. He made sure he told me ASAP just in case someone saw her leave.
I can imagine how you feel pirate.