ZenMe

Lexie summed it up really well.

As for what you mentioned with trust. I would imagine you are at the point where there is NO trust. Rightfully so, and re-earning just is really hard, because you have learned actions speak louder than words. You can't build trust with an active alcoholic.

From your previous posts it sounds like you are getting a divorce. Could this just be some last effort your AW is using to reel you back in? She may not be aware you are getting divorced but senses a disturbance in the force.

marie1960

piratesmile's post is really about a subject that for me there is NO grey area. Abuse, violence against men, women, or children, gays or pets seems to ignite something inside of me.

So for just one second, let's just say a poster came on and stated his A spouse/partner did something questionable, and now they are wondering if they are handling it properly.

As always, most would offer their ES&H in the normal way we do.

Anyone who has been involved intimately with an A knows exactly the type of unacceptable, we live with on a daily basis.

We are lied to on a daily basis.

We walk behind them, cleaning up their physical, emotional, legal, medical problems.

We make excuses to our family, friends and kids.

We are on an emotional rollercoaster, often crying ourselves to sleep.

i could go on, and on.......

For me personally, I am now two years free, I no longer am involved with an active alcoholic......... YET the distrust I still carry around inside my head actually shocks me at times.

While it is perfectly natural NOT to believe an active addict. I struggle with believing/trusting people who I have zero reason not to believe..

This is my personal baggage that I must resolve.

The possible illegal act of violence against another human is unacceptable.

This is about so much more, it is a trust issue.

It is the disease, ruling the roost.

pirate, you have to do what is in your best interest.

let the chips fall where they may, but you my friend, deserve peace.

Even if your wife was not an active A, I cannot help view her actions as disrespectful. Happily married women are not out partying at the bar all night with other men. Sorry just my opinion, nothing wrong with work related functions, nothing wrong with socializing, but I see her taking it just a bit too far....... and you are left to sort it all out, that's not fair to you.

DG0409

I think it's a given that sexually assaulting anybody is wrong. But it is also VERY common.

For me, as a girl, I KNOW that there are tons of creeps out there waiting to do inappropriate things. So, I wouldn't go to the bar and get drunk unless I was with a guy I trusted to watch out for me there. I feel like I would be placing myself in danger by going to a place with drunk men, and being drunk there myself. It's just a recipe for trouble.

Yes, assuming the OP's wife is telling the truth, the guy was wrong for what he did. But I also think that her behavior absolutely left her vulnerable for that happening.

It's $hitty that there are guys like that out there, but since we all know that there are guys like that out there, I believe women should be incredibly careful about who they choose to get drunk around.

OnawaMiniya

Ok.

For the record in case anyone wonders, my comment had nothing to do with the OP's AW.

Jazzman

I've seen this movie before. Trust is a hot button for me. Such that a situation like this would probably cause me to pull the plug on the relationship. Good luck man, you have your hands full with this one.

RevivingOphelia

Well-stated! Thank you!

Florence

I can say with all confidence that I have been pursued to the point of having to throw elbows and get other people involved. More than once. One of those times was by a coworker. One time was by my boss! I never reported it because it was easier to find a new job or just deal with it than become a whistleblower and put my family's livelihood at risk. Also, in the mix of it, it feels like an interpersonal conflict, and not like DUM DUM DUM sexual harassment. That comes later. Dealing with this kind of behavior is part of the fabric of life for most women worldwide. I don't doubt the OP's wife's veracity.

I think it's fully possible to support her in her disappointment and confusion without approving of or enabling her drinking behavior.

Florence

I also want to suggest that one of the reasons we need to rethink scrutinizing women's behavior in a sexual assault situation is that there is plenty of evidence that predators are looking for people that have poor or weakened boundaries to exploit. The answer is not to tell victims or potential victims to do ABC, the answer is to make it so socially unacceptable to ply others with booze and drugs to exploit their bodies that opportunists get the message that they will be punished for it, legally AND interpersonally.

jmartin

If her story is true, that is over the top, and the guy would deserve any punishment or reprimand he would get for this. I also completely understand her not wanting to deal with a formal complaint process given the circumstances.

That said, I completely understand your difficulty in getting behind her 100%. I know what it is like when you don't have the trust to feel that you are getting complete and accurate information. My AW has a chronic habit of bending, stretching, and forgetting the truth to avoid confrontation, deflect responsibility, and explain away her mistakes, to the point where if something like this happened, there would be that nagging doubt that I was not in possession of all the facts.

lillamy

Bingo.
I don't know of a woman who hasn't been sexually harassed at one point or another. At work, in stores, at the gym -- you name the place, it happens. And I think there are posts here that explain very well why we'd be hesitant to report. The culture we live in still blames the victim when it comes to sexual harassment and assault. All the damn time.

I almost wish you could prosecute these things as assault in general. Because, you know, when a guy gets beaten up by a bunch of strangers, I've never heard the defense lawyer say "well, you know, he was asking for it because he was in a bar, drinking, and wearing his upper buttons unbuttoned."

How you deal with it as a spouse?
You say "I'm sorry that happened to you" and you listen and you let her move on. IF she lied about it? Well, all you lose is that you're supportive and nice to her when she doesn't need it. And that's better than the alternative here, I would say.

Tuffgirl

This thread triggers a few things in me that I think are now worthy of sharing. First of all, I have talked regularly and at length with my teenage daughters about putting oneself in a position of vulnerability by being around strange men while intoxicated. It is a recipe for potential disaster. I remember being out in a remote village a few years back for work, and I was told - swear to god this is a direct quote - that around that community, it is well known no girl wants to be the first to pass out at a party. Eeewww.

Obviously, it was such a traumatizing moment as I have remembered it clearly since then. For us women, this is something we have to be willing to protect ourselves from. So I tell my daughters to always travel in packs, i.e. have your wingwomen with you if you are out drinking/clubbing/at a party. My daughter's sorority actually has designated sober people in this "pack" to watch over the others and make sure they get home safely, with their clothes still on.

Secondly, my best friend - the one who died last year - was notorious for becoming quite amorous with any guy in the near vicinity when she was drunk. Didn't matter who it was, who they were with, if they were married or not. She even hit on my boyfriend one night, right in front of me. That was close to the end of our association when she was drinking heavily. It wasn't the final straw, but it was close.

I am not going to pass my opinion on pirates situation - that is between him and his wife. But I will say she puts herself in these situations and that IS her responsibility, just as it is mine, or my daughters' or any other woman out there. The easiest way to prevent these kind of things from happening is to not be there in the first place. It really is that simple.

Good luck, piratessmile.

Florence

I'm going to try not to hijack the thread with this, but my immediate thought is that women get drunk all the time WITHOUT people sexually assaulting them. Why blame a victim for being in a circumstance where that kind of behavior is considered funny and okay?

I'll try to sit this one out. My personal experience is that I've been sexually harassed umpteen times and never reported it, and that I was blamed by my family for being raped at age 13. Because I was precocious or something, and should have comported myself differently with a 25 year old grown man who knew exactly what he was doing.

Tuffgirl

I am not blaming the victim, Florence. I am saying it is our responsibility to not put ourselves in a vulnerable position to begin with. Know who you are partying with, and know your limits and safety measures. Because stuff happens regardless. We can protect ourselves to the best of our ability - we can't control creepers of the world from trying to get in our pants.

Katiekate

I'm not sure why we keep getting accused of blaming the victim here.

The OP is having a trust issue.

We are not talking about whether or not a woman has the right to go out , get drunk, flirt, and not be bothered by anyone, or be blamed if something does happen.

We are talking about how many times does someone put up with this happening and still remain trusting in the relationship. We are talking about whether or not he gets to speak his truth, or is he once again supports something because it is easier than him saying, why does this keep happening?

No one here believes that a woman does not have the right to go out and be left alone, it's about this relationship, it's history and issues around trust.

wellnowwhat

Having a drink with colleagues should not be considered putting ourselves in a vulnerable position.

I have 3 daughters and I hate that I have to warn them about what they are free to do and not do because others cannot resist their urge to assault them.

The lessons that need to be taught are:

don't assault,

don't encourage media with your financial support that shows assault as entertainment,

don't be quiet when you know or suspect assault is likely to occur,

don't condone assault by being friendly, or not unfriendly, with people that commit assault and

assault is never, ever funny.

Sorry OP, we've moved away from your original post.

DG0409

We're not talking about A drink... We're talking about getting drunk.

Going to the bar and getting drunk with a bunch of guys you barely know who are also drunk IS putting yourself in a vulnerable position. Ideally, the world would be different and it wouldn't be like that. But it IS like that and denying it doesn't help. There 'shouldn't' be kids that die of starvation... but there ARE.

I can't change how every guy on the planet is, so I need to accept that there are creeps out there and act accordingly.

I do think it's important to think about what we as women can do to protect ourselves. I'm not going to sit around waiting for the culture to change and just be upset because the culture is wrong. I'm going to do anything I can to protect myself in the world AS IS rather than sitting around talking about how it 'should' be.

Florence

I'm just saying you can do everything right and still get brutalized, and women do every day, so why tell women it's their job to not get assaulted by predators?

And with that, I flounce!

Tuffgirl

My comments were directly focused on this paragraph by the OP.

Having a drink or two with colleagues is not what I envision when I say "vulnerable". Getting drunk with a "bunch of strange guys" puts a female in a position of vulnerability. Want to avoid that potential scenario? Don't be there in the first place.

bigsombrero

When a guy gets beat up by a bunch of strangers, it's not usually reported either. And yes, quite often when a guy gets beat up people say "he was asking for it". And sometimes it gets to that point where we'd all agree.

That said, there is a huge difference between getting your ass kicked and getting sexually harassed. Most of the time when a guy gets beat up it's probably due to alcohol abuse. Men who are at the gym or walking down the street sober usually aren't physically assaulted. Not the same for women.

Sorry to range off topic on this.

DG0409

Because you can decrease the CHANCE of it happening. Can we prevent it entirely?? Nope. But we sure can take steps to make it less likely. Why would we NOT seek to protect ourselves?

Why tell women that they should go get plastered with strange guys and not watch out for themselves when that could lead them to harm?

Why not seek to understand the situations that make us vulnerable to that and avoid them? Why not learn things to do to help protect ourselves?

I know there are predators out there and I absolutely take precautions based on that.