conversation with xabf's wife and new red flags

Old 07-06-2013, 04:40 PM
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conversation with xabf's wife and new red flags

Hey all,

I've been writing my journey here for a few months. I had a conversation with my xabf's wife (who is the supervisor for visitation with my three year old son with my ex).

I found out the following things:

-Her father is an alcoholic.
-She admitted to drinking a lot until just recently when she relocated to marry my ex.
-"[my ex] and I make each other better people, we help each other to be better because we have each other in our lives."
-Upon discussing my ex's long history of alcohol abuse: "Well, you have to have hope, right?"
-When discussing the court papers (where my ex lied repeatedly): "Well, you have your opinion, he has his opinion, and I have my own." (Umm...reality doesn't work that way.)
-When I reminded her that I moved out of the apartment because my son and I were unsafe with my ex around: "You have your reasons."
-"I only want the best for [your son], I care about him."
-"I will make sure [my ex] does not drink when your son is with us, he would do anything to make sure he has his time with him." (I posted a few days ago regarding a Facebook picture which shows the two of them drinking together...real brilliant, this one)

I'm even more frustrated. She seems to be in the thick of denial regarding everything (including her marriage...my ex was hitting on me recently and proudly proclaimed he is "single and looking"), plus she admitting to "drinking too much" in the recent past herself! This is all just a recipe for disaster.

Legally, I cannot take any action. I will just take note of her admission regarding her own recent alcohol abuse when I return to court in November.

There was an amazing post about letting go and trusting in the universe...that things will work out for the best.

Tormenting myself won't do any good. I need to focus on positive and constructive action I can take to continue healing myself and growing.

Sigh.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:14 PM
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I couldn't figure out how to edit my first post, sorry!

I want to ask---what should I do with this new information? I've been trying to work through all of my emotions already, but the wife's admission that she also "drank too much" just a few months ago is eating at me already. I know, I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. I'm struggling with the fact that she is supposed to supervise my ex when she herself had a recent drinking problem???

I know the name of the game is to document, document, document, but in the meantime until our November hearing, I don't want to feel powerless or constantly fearing that my child will be in danger (I know she will not report anything to me).
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:40 PM
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I know the name of the game is to document, document, document, but in the meantime until our November hearing, I don't want to feel powerless or constantly fearing that my child will be in danger (I know she will not report anything to me).
Hello butterfly,

I think that you should continue to write all these things down.
Also, it seems to me she told you A LOT of information.
No, she will probably not say anything she thinks might hurt her new husband,
but I think you could continue to talk to her.
If he is going down hill, it is only a matter of time before this ship sinks.

You are powerless over any action they take,
but you can continue to talk to the new wife.
Not saying fake a relationship, just be your sons mother,-- I wanted to know
everything about this woman in my ex's life, which meant in my children's life.
Turns out she loved the kids and wanted to keep them safe too.

Keep talking, keep writing, keep doing the next right thing.

Lots of time in between now and November, keep your calm.
Search for serenity and what you can control.
You can do this butterfly.

Beth
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:57 PM
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Thank you for the kind and helpful words, wicked!

Yes, she did tell me a LOT of information. Her having an alcoholic parent explains some of her behavior, including her marriage to my ex who is an active alcoholic. On the other hand, her admission about her own alcohol abuse threw me for a complete loop. She kept saying, "You have to have hope," but she should know firsthand from growing up with an alcoholic parent that only "hope" does not cure alcoholism. Recovery takes very hard work...simply cutting back won't help.

I'm still trying to process everything. I must admit, I have a very hard time believing that she truly cares about my son because she was messing around with my ex when I was still pregnant (I didn't find out about her until my son was 1 1/2 years old and yes, she was content being the "other woman" until my ex and I finally broke up). I still need to work through my anger and other emotions. It's really hard and I am struggling.
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:55 PM
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Kudos to you. I would be so livid if I were you. I think you handle yourself with poise and maturity considering what you are dealing with. My separated AH has a gf that was the other woman during our marriage and I never want to have a conversation with her in life...you are amazing! Be kind to yourself!
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:07 PM
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Update: I spoke a little bit with my son's dad today.

Good news:
He is going to AA and taking parenting classes (this wasn't court ordered but he said he is doing it to show the judge that he is his alcohol abuse seriously---honestly, this is a big breakthrough, I have to give him that, even though he has FB pics from two weeks ago which shows him drinking beer with his wife...).
He and his wife have followed the court orders for visitation as far as I know. He has not shown up for visitation hungover and I have not smelled any alcohol on his breath. He and his wife both say they do not drink during visitation. They pick up/drop off my son at the court-mandated times.

I asked him why his wife said she has her "own opinion" about the court documents? He said, "We don't have to discuss this, we just have to go through court now." Uhhh...ok? It's infuriating that the wife is the supervisor when it seems like she doesn't even believe everything I wrote about his alcoholic abuse/threatening behavior.

I told him he put me in a very uncomfortable place with his wife, due to his past actions and behavior (before I knew he was married, he made suggestive comments to me and about other women, he proclaimed he is "single and looking," then after I found out he was married, he said he "did it as a favor for her to get a Green Card," and that he "doesn't want to be with her forever, it's just for a favor because she did so much for me."). I just felt terrible when, yesterday, the wife said, "We make each other better people." Uhhh...I really doubt my ex has told her everything I just typed out. Plus, per my ex's family members, he is very physically and verbally abusive toward her.

My ex said, "She is a VERY GOOD stepmom." I recently found out that my ex cheated on me with her while I was still pregnant! When I found out my ex was cheating on me with her, my son was 1 1/2 years old and I just assumed it was a recent thing...that's why my ex's comment that she "loves our son" really gets to me. How could this woman claim to love my son when she was happy being the "other woman" even while I was pregnant? If she cared about my son so much, why didn't she step back? To me, this just demonstrates her poor character. It might not matter to the judge, but it matters to me.

The last thing my ex said was, "You keep judging me on the past. The day that you ever screw up, I hope everyone judges you and holds it against you. I know that someday when you find somebody to marry, that you won't care as much."

I need to focus on the positives here. Yes, they are following the court orders. He is attending AA and taking parenting classes. Visitation is going well so far.

In my previous post, lots of posters pointed out that the new woman isn't getting anything better. That an active A is still going to treat the new woman like crap too. It seems like my ex is finally doing the work, finally going to AA and taking parenting classes. I know I should be happy for my son that it seems like my ex is finally came around, but I'm having such a hard time getting over all the pain he caused me...

I think feeling alone makes this harder for me. I relocated about seven hours away from my hometown to start graduate school. I live in an apartment with my son. I miss my parents, siblings, childhood friends, and everyone so much. I have made good friends here, but it's still difficult. I'm not 100% sure, but I think my ex also felt very lonely and that is why he asked his now-wife to move to our new city and then married her. I'm an Adult Child of an Alcoholic, so them having a "family" triggers so much from my past.

Just venting. I'm not really sure where to go from here.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:42 PM
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I have a gentle suggestion about where to go from here.

Stop talking to them. Stop looking on Facebook. Stop trying to collect evidence against your ex.

I know you think you need to do all this, but really, you don't. The court is going to do what they believe is in the best interests of the child, and may or may not consider your evidence. I know its easy to say this is protecting the child, but is it really? To me, it seems like torture for you.

You've got a great future ahead of you - graduate school - very cool! Do make new friends and keep busy focusing on yourself and your child. Let go of the outcome of this, and the attempts to try to control the situation and make sense of it all. It doesn't make sense; alcoholic-fueled behavior rarely does.

I hope you can take all this as kindness and not harshness. I know it hurts, especially when there's a child involved. But it seems to me doing what you are doing is keeping the wound open and bleeding. Maybe time to let it start to heal?
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:23 PM
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Thank you, TuffGirl. (I love that name!)

The lawyer I currently have made it clear that he thinks their marriage issues/Green Card scam/cheating won't matter in court because all of that would be difficult to prove. We just focused on my ex's alcohol abuse, and I won full custody based on that. I agree, doing all of this is a waste of precious time and energy.

One thing I have been thinking about is my own parents marriage. My father is an alcoholic and he has treated my mother very horribly, yet they are still married to this day. Even as a child, I just wished they would divorce. I think the same thing may end up happening with my son regarding my ex and his wife. I want to save my son from the pain of being a child of an alcoholic, but it is completely out of my control.

I think you nailed it, I'm still trying to make sense of this mess and I am trying to control the outcome. When I think about the November hearing, it scares me that my ex will lie his face off again and that the judge will grant him overnights/unsupervised time.

I want to heal, but I have not let go of all this baggage. I recently read a quote that said something like "we each have the power to heal ourselves." That is very affirming and empowering, but how do I get there? Part of it is stopping contact, like you suggested, but the healing process seems very unclear to me.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:28 PM
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Just to put it out there: complying with court orders doesn't necessarily show a whole lot of progress, it's merely adhering to the law!

Sometimes in this whole alcoholism thing we get wrapped up in what's normal and what's not - and we can deem a 'normal' activity as one which demonstrates 'progress'.

In the 'normal' world, adhering to a court order is simply the sensible thing to do if you don't want to get in further trouble, it's not necessarily an indication that everything is fine and dandy...

Just my opinion
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:45 PM
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Very true, although the judge did not order AA or parenting classes. My ex is doing that on his own. Which is some progress for him, because prior to the judge ruling in my favor, he simply insisted that I couldn't prove anything and that his drinking didn't matter. Despite the AA, he is still drinking though...who knows how long his "recovery" has been or will last...

Beyond that, you're right, I just don't know if everything is really fine and dandy now. I've known him for eight years, and he has behaved exactly the same way during the entire time. Maybe losing custody finally knocked some sense into him, but no matter what he does or does not do, I think I need to take my focus off of him and his wife and just focus and me, my son, our lives together.

Logically, I know focusing on myself and my son and the future makes sense, but spiritually, I'm still getting bogged down by the past. I'm still trying to reconcile the fact that the wife, the former "other woman" is now the step-mom. And the fact that my ex is doing *everything* with her/for her that he never did for me and our son. It still really hurts.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:43 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what makes you think he is telling you the truth about AA and parenting classes? My bet is he went to ONE meeting, but tells you he's "going" and that he registered for a parenting class but will never actually attend. Just call it a hunch.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:21 PM
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LexieCat, good point. I don't have any proof he is attending AA or parenting classes beyond his word, and he has shown a thousand times over that he lies and twists the truth in order to serve his needs better. Besides, wishing revenge upon another parent doesn't scream "I'm taking parenting classes" to me. And AA won't do much good if he thinks he can keep drinking in moderation.

Seems like I will have to wait until November to see what evidence he can show
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:22 PM
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Butterfly, I'd agree with others that abiding by the court order doesn't imply recovery. Attending AA while still drinking in order to show the court he's serious isn't recovery. The judge in our divorce and custody hearings didn't order AXH to attend AA because there's no way to prove he attends.

Originally Posted by butterfly2013 View Post
I'm still trying to reconcile the fact that the wife, the former "other woman" is now the step-mom. And the fact that my ex is doing *everything* with her/for her that he never did for me and our son. It still really hurts.
I had to work through the same feelings with AXH and his GF. What helped was the realization that even though he did go out with her and her kids and DS to do the things he alway failed to actually do with DS and I (i.e. promised to do but was passed out or too angry to actually do): 1. she always planned and paid and 2. AXH also continued to lie to her as much as he had always lied to me. Later, I also found out that the lies continued to include that he was not drinking, and AXH was 'in a mood' (aka angry and abusive) during several of those outings. After a while I realized that if having the 'family outings' with him included dealing with the lies and abuse, I really didn't want it. She may have gotten some of the fun, but she also got the drinking, the abuse, the joy of shouldering all of her responsibilities and most of his as well.

I'm still mad at the GF and still think she's a major f-ing b for continuing to bring DS into the same house as a drunk and abusive AXH just to try to prove that the guy she let into her and her kids' lives was a good guy. It still makes me want to hurl thinking about her trying to tell me things about DS so I could do things HE likes (for example, she KNEW he'd love to go to the waterpark because he likes to swim. When in reality, DS was and still is terrified of water deeper than the tub.) But when it came down to it, she took DS with her when she had to leave her house when AXH really got on a tear. She could've left DS at the house with AXH, but she didn't.

Just like I couldn't control his drinking and behavior, she couldn't. I didn't have to like her; I didn't have to appreciate her trying to prove AXH wasn't an abusive a--hat. I didn't have to believe her self-image of being an over-protective mama, but I did try to trust that she'd watch over DS, because she saw herself that way.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:40 PM
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Wow, theuncertainty, thank you for sharing. Your post was really helpful. Especially the last sentence: "I did try to trust that she'd watch over DS, because she saw herself that way."

It's so difficult to think along these lines in my situation with my ex's wife. She seems SO deeply in denial. Really...an abusive, alcoholic, cheating, lying husband "makes me a better person"? She knowingly cheated with my ex when she knew we were together and when I was pregnant, and continued even after our son was born, and then my ex introduced our son to her behind my back and my son even attended their wedding without my knowledge...while I would like to think she would protect my son, her actions have shown me that she probably doesn't have my son's best interests in mind.

Yesterday, her refrain was "You have to have hope." Maybe that is what she tells herself to keep herself in denial? My ex is very emotionally abusive, controlling, has a short temper, refer to himself as a "sh*tty person and a sh*tty husband." Thanks again, the uncertainty, because I'm pretty sure their visitation time isn't peaches and sunshine...

Sigh. Why is this all so hard?
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:03 PM
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It was hard. Much harder than it probably comes across here. I completely understand the cheating side, too. AXH was still AH and supposed to be working on his issues when he moved in his GF. He told me he was just renting a room from her and told her he was divorced. When I finally filed, she found out the truth, told me she was sorry, she'd never have hurt me or DS that way, but still took him back and still said he was an honest. *shrug* That says way more about her than about me or the relationship I had with AXH.... Or at least just as much...
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:13 PM
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I can relate. They must think "But he will be different with me," even though they have shown their cheating, lying, and manipulating ways---all on top of the alcoholism, of course. I just don't understand my ex or his wife and I never will.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by butterfly2013 View Post
I can relate. They must think "But he will be different with me," even though they have shown their cheating, lying, and manipulating ways---all on top of the alcoholism, of course. I just don't understand my ex or his wife and I never will.
AXH's GF definitely thought she would be able to help AXH change, told me as much. She also told me that no guy would ever treat her the way I said AXH treated me (which she didn't really believe either, except I caused AXH to be angry), because HER parents raised HER to be a smart strong woman. *rolleyes eyes* That belief got her beat up by her 'wonderful guy'. For which I am sorry, but at the same time..... I really wanted to tell her "I told you. I warned you."

There's a thread on SR somewhere that talks about 'So you think you're special' or to that effect, that talks about that thought process.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:46 PM
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Here are the links:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...special-i.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...pecial-ii.html
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:06 AM
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People who are court-ordered to attend AA are required to bring signed proof of attendance. Of course, just sitting through an hour-long meeting does not suggest recovery, it just proves someone sat through a meeting.

I "open" for my home group this month, and three people came up after the meeting to get their court slips signed. Some groups refuse to do this--it is all a matter of group conscience. Last time I opened a couple of young guys came in together about 20 minutes before the meeting was over. I told them I was sorry, but showing up two-thirds of the way into the meeting was not "attending a meeting," and I refused to sign their slips. I was nice about it, and told them if they had trouble finding the place they now know where it is and can get there on time for the next one. I don't believe they ever came back.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by butterfly2013 View Post
I want to heal, but I have not let go of all this baggage. I recently read a quote that said something like "we each have the power to heal ourselves." That is very affirming and empowering, but how do I get there? Part of it is stopping contact, like you suggested, but the healing process seems very unclear to me.
Everyone's healing process is different, but one common theme is being proactive about it. It's not something that just happens overnight or when we aren't paying attention.

Stopping contact is a big first step. Second would be to start paying attention to your obsessive thoughts in your head. Begin to notice how often thoughts of him (and her) cross your mind. You may be amazed at how often this happens. Journaling helped me get it out of my head and on paper, making it a little easier to let go of as well as being able to chart my progress. I was honest with my entries about how I was feeling each day. It helped me reach a point of acceptance...that this is what it is, even if I don't like it.

Keeping busy also helps. Learn to distract yourself with your own life. Graduate school offers a lot of extra opportunities to stay busy. Volunteer, take up a new hobby, spend lots of one on one time with your kid, etc.
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