Flicka57

I am sorry if this is long but here is my scenerio: married 15 years & now divorced. It took me 8 years into the marriage to realize his drinking was that of addiction. As time went on he got nastier and nastier towards me and told lies about me to others and it seemed he had different masks for when he was around different people. He was so convincing that everyone believed his lies. I saw him over the years become more emotionally regressed. I am so hurt over this and trying to make sense out of this behavior, he stayed in the home but started the divorce process when it was discovered I had lumps in both breasts and now I am awaiting my results for whether it is cancer. He carried the health insurance and he knew leaving would leave me in this condition with no insurance. Is it possible that this is the actions of an alcoholic: to plot this whole thing out over the years or am I dealing with just some kind of emotionally abusive man who drank? I never saw him drunk but saw the amount go from just weekends to every day to a level of 4-5 beers daily & 2 mixed drinks daily & that was after he got home from work so there could have been more during the day. He added gambling addiction, porn, he hired prostitutes and at the end I found illegal and prescription drugs around. I want to put this to rest. He is with another woman that he started seeing during our inhouse separation. Does he have a new personality for her or will he continue at the emotional level he was at when he left me?--He literally did childish things to me at the end.. . .stacking my dishes in front of the door to block me from getting out, acting like he was packing to leave, acting like he was having someone over for dinner and they never showed up, acting like he was talking on the phone but sometimes I could see him and realize he was pretending, going around and drawing horns or faces on pictures of me in the house, ripping up one item of my clothing every day, threatening me by leaving guns in closet or bullets lying around, stringing wires to trip me, wire tapping home phone. . .so was this all reserved for me or will he continue with this childish behavior or worse going forward with someone else. Sorry to be so long but just looking for feedback to make sure I made the right decision in leaving (especially now with no insurance) and if his behavior truly caused by alcohol or he just stopped loving me and found someone else. Appreciate any feedback you all might be able to share. My heart is still reeling from what he did and it's hard to get over this.

fourmaggie

have you thought about a 12 step program? ie Al anon for YOU....you need to take of you right now...

here is something in our recovery:
3Cs
you did not cause this
you can not control this
and there is no cure....

your life is a merry go round?...read the stickies and read some more...knowledge is key and growing from it...

my SR friends will be here in a bit to help with more input.

lillamy

You are trying to analyze the actions of an addict as if he were rational. They're not.

I would describe his actions as abusive. And very irrational.

whiskeyman

oh boy, get out, get to a meeting, and start over.
you made a mistake marrying hiim. its ok to say that.
if you think he is dangerous make a visit to the police station and tell them your concerns. But please do not have any guilt.

you are a great woman who doesnt deserve any of this.

FireSprite

I agree - you CAN'T make sense of it & I would classify his actions as abusive as well - addiction is illogical in nature & sensibility does not apply when dealing with an active A.

At times I wondered at whether AH was so brilliant that he had plotted & schemed every little barb & jab at me & then one day I realized the ONLY thing he had that much attention to detail about was his drinking & enabling his habit, and the immaturity to go along with it.

Not brilliant at all in fact & I have since realized I was always giving him far too much credit. His attention span simply didn't exist past his own needs & I was just a casualty in his personal war. I don't doubt for a moment that your XAH's behavior will continue if he doesn't seek sobriety or recovery, regardless of who he has in his life.

atalose

You can’t make sense regarding an alcoholics behavior and your codie behavior until you learn more about alcoholism and codependence.

To think he plotted this for years and years against you is kind of crazy and you need to really focus on your own issues here rather then in all the things he did.

You knew he had a gambling addiction, you knew he went to prostitutes and used illegal and prescription drugs………YET you stayed...........and now you are surprised the marriage is over??????

Al-anon would do you wonders and so would researching codependency.

Focus on your health, find help with medical expenses through your local hospital or some programs for woman.

Flicka57

Thank you so much for your responses & suggestions.
To Fourmaggie: I did do Al Anon for 4 months but the only one near me consisted of 6-8 women who just wanted to discuss the town gossip & I saw 4-5 newcomers come to one meeting never to be seen again--so sad nothing in my area.
To: Lillamy: You seem as confused as me I keep thinking addict and then abuse seems more appropriate it is like which came first chicken or egg?
To: Whiskeyman: You are right and saw what I saw with the danger signals. Police would not help--even 6 months after divorce he called my bank and told them I was deceased & my accounts got put on hold. Had to make police reports to prove to bank I am still in fact alive but according to police yet again there is nothing they can do because you cannot prove it was him--how can someone who is an addict come up with stuff like this? I know I don't have a devious mind but at least mine is not clouded by alcohol or drugs. This is so why my heart is breaking because a man who I thought loved me turned into this before my eyes like almost overnight and literally left me to die with no insurance as I headed off that month for my first radiation treatment.
To Firespirit: Your comments seem like you must have had someone similar in your life but I'm not sure if yours went to the extremes of spying & such like mine did. I am still worrying one day that maybe I was showering and he had a camera on me and I might one day found a video of myself on the internet. How can someone consumed by alcohol pull all this stuff off? This is so baffling--I sometimes wish that if I could just hear that he gets a DUI or something that confirms the reason I went through this so I can put it to rest!

Thank you all & I see how you all help each other & this is so wonderful to people who are suffering. What a great group of people you are.

FireSprite

Flicka, my sister's Ex was abusive like this but thankfully not mine. His self hatred & low self-esteem were so overwhelming he hurt her JUST TO HURT HER; she was the closest person to him & never told anyone about the abuse out of shame & probably some fear of retaliation.

There was no rhyme or reason to it & he managed it because he had no fear of consequences; there was never any inner talk happening inside his head weighing out right/wrong like most of us with consciences do. All of his energy was directed to his addiction & dysfunction where most of us dilute that energy among family, kids, running a household, working, etc.

dandylion

Flicka, it concerns me that you say that "if he got a DUI it would confirm the reason that you went through this." Can you clarify exactly what you mean by this?

It sounds like you doubt yourself and wonder if you are the "crazy" one---this is often the way a person from an abusive relationship feels. Am I correct about this??

dandylion

Flicka57

To atalose--I did not stay. I found out about the prostitutes 5 days before my surgery & radiation, found a friend to take me & returned from hospital to stay 9 months in a safe house--there are no more funding programs (lack of funding) in my area for people facing possible cancer. I do agree I need to work on myself but I am looking to see if I need to work on getting over an abuser or an addict. Thank you for your comments.

To Firesprite: I think you hit on something about hating your sister's A hating her & taking it out on her because of his low self esteem. I did not keep quiet like she did & she should have spoke to others. Mine was doing it behind my back not to my face. Did you have any suspicions this was going on with your sister? Was he an alcoholic? Just curious.

FireSprite

Yes, he was (and still is) an alcoholic and eventually also became addicted to other drugs.

No, I had NO CLUE this stuff was happening, especially with my 2-yr old niece in the home at the time. She didn't reach out for help until she felt that her life was literally in danger & we had to involve the authorities, file restraining orders, etc. He had locked himself inside the house with my niece and was drunkenly ranting & raving & taunting my husband through the open windows. We ended up working with the police to get him to answer the door for them & while they distracted him I called to my niece who walked out the front door & right into my arms. They told me once her little foot crossed that threshold then I could grab for her without having ever entered the home & be within my legal rights to step in as temporary guardian since they had already gotten verbal permission from my sister & he was obviously not fit to be in charge of a minor based on their observations since arriving on the scene.

Man, I got a lump in my throat just thinking back on that - it's been a long time since I examined that memory. My niece turns 14 this fall.

Florence

Both, personally. His behavior was beyond. Just, beyond.

I read something the other day about the number of domestic violence cases that also involve addiction/substance abuse issues. It was well over 50%. Additionally, addiction and co-occurring mental illness isn't uncommon (my AH, for example, was self-medicating for bipolar disorder for years, and when he tried to get sober cycled rapidly). And just like the rest of us, some addicts are just jerks and assholes.

There are just a lot of factors here, and the sad part is that unless he gets sober and stays sober for a long time, you'll probably never know which was which.

What I lean on is this: my AH lied to me over and over and over again. He stole money from me and my children. He was unreliable. He lashed out at me and said mean things about me to me and others. He threatened suicide to keep me in line. He abandoned me to drink when I was at my most vulnerable, recovering from surgery and caring for a newborn. He ruled the household with his crappy moods. He wasn't this way 100% of the time, but I deserved better nonetheless. He broke my heart over and over again.

So, mental illness, abuser, alcoholic, King Baby, perennial loser, whatever the case, it's not okay. You made the right decision. It sounds like you have a lot on your plate. Eventually you have to make decisions about your own health, and when you're vulnerable, you have to have people you trust around you. He is not one of them.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this, but we're here. SR and individual therapy changed my life. Please stick around. There is a lot of wisdom here.

Flicka57

Dandylion: Okay, here goes: I never saw my ex in 20 years ever get drunk and having someone confirm excessive drinking would confirm alcoholism and not just an abusive person. This man actually told his teenage daughter 20 years ago to keep up a lie he could not read or write & she went along with it keeping his secrets and other family members did the same. Okay, I get it his whole family is super dysfunctional but are things like this signs of alcoholism? Has anyone ever heard of someone going to such extremes to hide things & lie to others for years on end and even getting others to join in. His sister who I got a job at my company went to owners with such horrific lies about me (given to her by my then husband) my company was almost ready to let me go after 16 years of employment. Thankfully they stopped and realized I never did things in the past and were told about impending divorce and likely she was spreading rumors. The mind games weren't just from him but he got people to do things for him that still keep coming at amazing amounts. He gets people to call me with unbelievable stories and he tells these people I'm evil & gives them the "oh poor poor me" victim routine and they do it. He went to the pastor of my church and told him I duct-tapped him to a chair and repeatedly hit him. First off, what person would sit quietly in a chair with a raving lunatic wife (as he described me to the pastor) would tie him up in chairs--guess what--my pastor believed him and I've been going to that church for 30 years long before I knew my husband--I could go on & on but it is bizarre the treatment that was dealt out to me. So I guess he really

Flicka57

Sorry for the long post--I must have a sociopath on my hands.

Florence

Flicka, I'm no doctor, but I do have some experience with a guy that has a personality disorder. When we split up, he told outrageous lies about me to anyone who would listen. More than ten years later I still experience fallout with strangers and acquaintances about the things he said about me. He was so adamant and elaborate I almost think he believed them himself. This guy had Narcissistic Personality Disorder and it was really useful to me to read about that and learn about that particular brand of crazy.

There are other women here with similar stories and they will probably show up and share soon. In my life, it was so traumatic after the fact -- especially having people constantly question my very moral fiber -- including my parents, my minister at the time, my friends -- that I had PTSD symptoms long afterward (for this and a couple of other reasons). He accused me of abusing him, of cheating on him, of being a **** and a drug addict, stealing, I mean, awful things. As I found out over time, he was actually the one that had done the cheating, the stealing, and the abuse.

I experienced a lot of relief from the sadness and confusion and anxiety after this by going through individual counseling for PTSD. There are ways to get treatment very inexpensively, and I'll bet there are counseling options available to you especially if you have to go through cancer treatment. My 40yo sister is freshly in remission after having a full chemo and radiation spread over the course of a year, and counseling was one of the bedrocks of her treatment.

You have so much going on. Be kind to yourself. xx

dandylion

Flicka, his actions sound to me to be abusive, sociopathic, and criminal (defamation), to say the least. You indicated that he also drank in your first post. It is possible that he is an alocholic--I can't say....but I don't think that it makes a difference to exactly pinpoint the origin of his pathology (if it Could be done). The point is that you were treated abusively by this man. Why does it matter so much to you if he is an alcoholic? He drank--it was/is a problem for you!!!

The important thing, to my thinking, is that he is a perpetrator of abuse. To answer your question---YES, I have heard of people doing these kinds of things--and, even worse (if you can imagine). Sociopathic people can weave incredible schemes and involve other people. Have you ever heard of the movie "The Great Imposter"--that was based on an actual man. There are people who live two different identities and have several families who don't even know of each other!!

The thing i am concerned is about the effects that this has had on you. It is not your fault!

What kind of support are you getting right now? A person living in a relationship like this invariably suffers damage to their sense of self. That is what I am worried about for you.

I am glad you found this forum. We can truly understand.

dandylion

LexieCat

He DOES sound like a sociopath. A rather scary one, in fact. I have worked in the domestic violence field for many years, and you are much safer not living in the same house.

I'm a bit confused, though. You said he "started" the divorce proceedings when you discovered the lumps, but you haven't yet received the biopsy results? I never heard of a divorce that happened that quickly. If it isn't final yet, ask your lawyer to seek an order requiring him to continue to pay your health insurance premiums.

Oh, and BTW--the last guy I lived with was a pathological liar--mostly about stuff he claimed he had done/been in the past, just to make himself look good. He VERY rarely drank, and I think I only saw him even tipsy a couple of times in the five years we lived together.

Argnotthisagain

Flicka....whoo....your posts kind of knocked the wind out of me. So extreme--I hate that this is happening to you!!

Don't try to figure out a crazy person, it will only drive YOU crazy.

I know, I know, it's almost impossible to NOT try to figure it out, because the sickness is sooooooo alien to normal, logical thinking. I sure don't get it.... it boggles my mind.

I think it might also help you to google on "relationships with psychopaths" "how to protect yourself in relationship with psychopaths" and similar keywords. There is a LOT of info out there, and discussion boards too.

How to protect yourself is the first priority, and you'll find good advice on what to do.

theuncertainty

I don't have any insight on how to make sense of the behavior... I tried for a very long time with AXH, but was never able to. Expecting rational and consistent behavior from AXH, or trying to apply rational reasoning to what he did is futile.

AXH was/is abusive; mainly emotionally and mentally, but not only.... I still struggle with this:

or the question "Would he not be abusive if he wasn't an alcoholic?"

I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in wondering that about your AH. I find that, really, whether one issue came first or whether he wouldn't have been abusive if he wasn't an alcoholic, doesn't really matter. Because he is. He is abusive. He is an alcoholic.

I know that when I started the divorce proceedings, I was told that I couldn't so much as take AXH off my Costco card much less drop him off my insurance until everything was handled. I'd second what Lexie said about seeking an order to have him continue to pay the health insurance premiums.

Wishing you continued strength and sending healing thoughts.

Hammer

Back towards the title of the thread . . ..

You cannot make sense of CRAZY. Else the word CRAZY would not have its meaning.

As noted, various mental illnesses track very hard in Alcoholism and all the rest of the Addiction genre.

Typical Sample . . . closest to our household . . .

How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves - Roger Melton, M.A.