PohsFriend

Hey Guys...

Wow, early March was the last time I dropped in.

So a little update on things and the whole perspective/time continuum...

Poh just got her 9 month chip. Those who know my story know she was just shy of 9 months sober when she had a couple slips that I went ballistic over but she hasn't been 'drunk' in about 18 months.

Poh has a couple Sponsees now and is very involved in AA. She is very busy with our 8 month old son and we are in the middle of moving so she's wiped out tired.

Very few arguments or issues. We are quiet and peaceful by nature and things have settled down immensely. I go to her open meetings a few times per month and her group is our social circle really. I started a new job 3 months ago and it was really a dream opportunity so I was nervous - I told her point blank before I took it that I needed her to be able to take care of her stuff if I took this since I have been working 80 hour weeks. It's one of those job situations where you say that if you were going to build the organization, the product, the team.... here is how you would do it? Yeah well, God heard me and called ******** on me and said "here ya go!" so I am in workaholic mode lately and Poh has been rock solid and understands that for me to make the kind of living for our family that she wants and that allows her to make AA and being mommie her fulltime job then she has to hold up her end.

Simply put... she has. She did a lot of work getting some meds straight and decided to get a good psychiatrist who specializes in addiction issues to handle all of her medications because in the past that was a problem with docs just handing her crap and not checking up.

I don't smell her breath or look for bottles or worry when I travel for work. I kinda dropped all of that. If she drinks I will know it because she's an alcoholic. If she could drink and maintain her composure and keep her act together without me catching on I would not be a member here... so when I started travelling she asked if I wanted to do the breathalyzer thing we had discussed and I asked her if she needed it to keep her honest... she said she did not think so but if I would feel better she was fine with it. I just shrugged and said I did not but if she was ever struggling to let me know.

In short... we worked out our arrangement that is working for us. Every couple is different but I think I have learned some things that will help others...

1. I won't live with an active addict of any kind. Period. She knows this. Sobriety began when I stopped begging and crying and pleading and enabling and dropped her at the curb at her brother's house at 3am on 12/26/2011. She knows that drinking means losing her husband and home and son and that scares her. I do not remind her of that or use it as a threat and I'm sure she knows that if she slipped I would not call it quits - it isn't like that... it's that she knows a slip could mean not being able to stop and not being able to stop means losing everything that matters to her. She's motivated.

2. There isn't anything I can do to stop her, she will or she won't. AA was all for show until she slipped, then she went because SHE WANTED IT AND NEEDED IT FOR HERSELF, not to get me off her ass.

3. I ignored everyone who told me she would relapse and we were doomed. One size fits one and on this board it is easy to see every situation through the lens of your own. She could have a fatal relapse tomorrow, next week or ten years from now and for all I know she may already be in the midst of one but I feel sure that she is not. Listen to everyone, accept that you can't control them, understand that the only thing you can control is you and then you have a chance.

...So for me what worked was that I realized that I love her enough to stick it out but I won't watch her kill herself. If she has a drink I would be disgusted and so would she. If she did not immediately jump back into her sobriety routine or if I saw a second instance it's be rehab or relocate... I carry special 'extra' insurance that would pay everything if she needed a month in treatment and she knows it is there.

I do not think we would have made it had I not thrown her out that night, I don't think we'd have made it if I hadn't learned to let go and leave it to her a year or so later... It's a weird dichotomy I suppose.

We learn from watching others in her group. There are folks we love whose funerals we expect to attend because they won't stay sober and won't break away from the unhealthy situations that trigger their drinking. We accept that and love them as they are. Today she was on the phone and I heard her say "Well, look - no f---ing sh1t you don't WANT to admit you are an alcoholic and don't want to do meetings... I didn't want to admit it and going to 5 meetings every week, working the steps, calling at least two alcoholics every day, writing down my resentment list every night, meditating every day, reading the book... none of that was my plan but that's how I stay sober and guess what... either you get over it and do the same or you are going to lose your husband, your home, your kid and probably your life so if you want my help come to meetings and do your part - if you can't do that then I still love you and you can call me as long as you are sober but if you won't help yourself then I won't waste my breath or energy trying to help you!".

..when she hung up she looked at me and said "Yeah, I remember what you told me after reading that post on your board..." Then she looked at our dogs and asked them to write her a written response to "Why won't sally stop drinking and come back to AA".

She gets it.

Anyway so far so good. It is 'there' in our lives but it really only effects me because I have the baby when she goes to meetings so our schedule revolves around AA to some degree and that's ok. AA is critical for her and I respect that. I have no idea what step she's on or what she's working on with her sponsor... I know they are close and talk daily but I know far more about where all her sponsees are in their sobriety because she asks me to help her figure out how to articulate a point or whatever. That's good - I don't need to know, it's not my sobriety and it is much like the conversations we have about the organization I am building and the senior management team I am putting together to run it... I talk about how I am moving pieces around and how teams are shaking out, she talks about how this or that sponsee is getting it or not getting it. Alcoholism is 'there' every day but it isn't a stranger any longer. We know it is there, we know it would love to take a shot at destroying our world and I know she fears it.

My best advice to those in the midst of discovery or who are in a long pattern of dealing with the rollercoaster of the on-again off again alcoholic is that something has to change before anything will change. Either accept the situation you are in or don't... just don't let yourself say you are powerless to change YOUR circumstance. Easy? Hell no. Simple? Blessedly so. Every one of us has the option of choosing to live with our alcoholic or not. Kids, money, fear... sure, that's all real but at the end of the day you have to live with YOU regardless. If you can be happy in the situation you are in then you needn't change it. If you can't then own that and don't blame them. Be pissed at the situation and mad as hell that you have to make such hard decisions but realize that you have to fix your own situation or accept it.

...that can sound harsh to someone who is in the sort of pain I was at one time. Hopefully you 'hear' me. The worst feeling I know is helplessness. When I felt like I was watching her die slowly and that the future was hopeless I was miserable. When I had had enough of the insanity and kicked her out I was miserable. When I got to where I can say that if she can't make it then I will mourn and it will suck but I will not live that life or allow my son to live that life I got saner because I was no longer allowing a disease I can't cure, did not cause and can never control to control my life.

Will she make it? Who the hell knows? Why spend time thinking about that. I could get hit by lightning tomorrow and I don't spend time thinking about that either.

What will I do if she drinks? LOL... those who know me well know how I used to have a seventy three point plan for that. Now? Probably say "Aw crap... really? so where are we? Slip or full blown relapse or what? Then if she is drunk she knows I have the best facility around on speed dial and will pack her a bag and drop her off... if she's sober then I will probably wait and see but I don't need a plan any longer because she's different every month and so am I and so is our life and worrying about what is real and immediate is enough work. Things that may never happen are too far down on my list to think about.

There is hope, happy endings happen. It wasn't always easy and it may get hard again some day but what marriage is easy? I love her, she loves me, we are nuts over each other and that has not worn off. We went through hell together and are stronger as a result and more confident that we can overcome together...

I hope for a similar story for those struggling. Don't quit on yourself.

LeSigh

Welcome back Poh!

Good to hear things are working for each of you..

HopefulmomtoD

Love hearing good news!

Pelican

I'm going to keep that one in my mental file cabinet! Good stuff!

Thank you for taking the time to share an update on your life. I am thrilled to *see* that you and your wife have found your path of healing through addiction.

Your experience, strength and hope are inspirational.

Blessings,

Pelican

LexieCat

Hey, PF, glad to hear things are going well for the two of you.

Good luck on the new job!

TheGrinch

Dear PohsFriend,

Wow, Wow, Wow! I wish there was a "1,000XThanks" button and I would click it, well, 1,000 times!! Lol

This is exactly the post that I needed to read. I'm only beginning this rocky road and needed so desperately to hear exactly this success story. I was beginning to think that there were no success stories of living with your (alcoholic/recovering) partner, especially where the fear of loosing it all is the biggest motivator. But at the end of the day, everything in this process is so individual, why not the motivating factor?

Thank you for taking the time to post this, thank you for sharing your experience and thank you for your honesty. And thank you for reminding me that each situation is different and "one size fits one" in this battle. And that all the comments and help comes from people's own perspective. Your post is "bookmarked" as a favourite, I will be reading it over and over. Thank you.

Well done to you, well done to your wife and well done to the team consisting of the two of you.

LexieCat

Just a reminder, Grinch,

"Success" is something WE can have, regardless of whether the alcoholic gets/stays sober or not. My first husband has been sober over 33 years. He got sober at age 21, a year before we got married. We divorced almost 15 years later, for reasons unrelated to his alcoholism (I was the one who wanted out because the marriage eventually did not feel right to me), and we are still good friends.

My second husband almost died from drinking. I was positive that that experience would be enough to keep him on the road to recovery, but he slipped a few times before we got married, then went back to it full-time a couple of months after the wedding. After a few months (and lots of Al-Anon meetings) I decided I was not up for another deathbed vigil, and I left.

Which one of these is the "success story"? Well, the first one is, if you look at the results of the alcoholic's recovery. If you look at MY recovery from the effects of living with alcoholism, the second one is probably more of a success story.

When my first husband got sober, he got so THOROUGHLY recovered I figured there was no more work for me to do. I was preoccupied with school, and then my new career. I think if I had stayed connected to Al-Anon it might have prevented me from blithely jumping into a relationship with someone who had, among his belongings when we moved him into my apartment, a copy of AA's Big Book. (He explained that he "used to" have a drinking problem, but that he had gotten over it.) When my second husband returned to drinking himself to death, Al-Anon was my lifeline. It saved my sanity and, when the time was right, gave me the strength to save myself rather than going down with the sinking ship. A HUGE success for me and for my well-being.

So it's absolutely awesome when both parties' recoveries come at the same time and the relationship happily continues. Just be careful about defining "success" in terms of whether the alcoholic recovers. That is success for only one person.

Just editing to add one other thought that just popped into my head. I remember that during my first marriage, I at times felt like I should be getting more "credit" for his recovery. That, too, would have been smacked down if I had stayed involved with Al-Anon. Giving myself some kind of credit for being a supportive partner is sort of like the alcoholic wanting credit for getting sober. We don't get brownie points for doing what we are supposed to do. I think it gave me an inflated sense of what I could "do" for my second husband--the illusion that I had some kind of control over the outcome of his efforts at recovery.

Oh, the little insights life gives us... but often we get them only in hindsight.

Robh850

Awesome post. I had gone back and read your 1 year later poat a few days ago amd wondered how you were doing.

Best wishes on your future.

brenteagle

Keep it. Up

ShootingStar1

So good to hear from you Poh's Friend and especially to revel in the success you and your wife have worked so hard to create.

I think this post should be a sticky. It gives a perspective that is so healthy and so positive that many of us need to hear.

ShootingStar1

fluffyflea

Far out Poh!

Florence

Good to hear from you.

lillamy

I'm so happy to hear things are going so well for you both! (And baby, of course!)

I think it's a very valid point you're making when you say we all talk from our experience. If I had done what you did when my firstborn was a baby, it's possible things could have ended differently for my first marriage and AXH.

Whenever I talk about my experiences, it comes from a place of everyday interaction for 20 years with a man who kept digging his hole deeper and deeper. Who had been an alcoholic for 20 years when I met him(I just didn't understand that) and who spent another 20 going downhill, eventually losing everything.

I am so happy there are stories of people who commit to sobriety and where recovery sticks. I've seen it in friends but never experienced it in AXH while there was still love between us. I've seen it in double winners here who are amazing wise people.

Unfortunately, people like Poh aren't the majority of addicts. And so we need all the stories. Because while everyone wants their loved one to recover, not everyone will get that.

I'm so glad you told your story because I smiled through it and I cheer for every addict who finds recovery. Because it gives me hope that it is indeed possible. And that addiction, this terrible illness that robs people of their dignity and personhood and life... It doesn't always win.

PohsFriend

Thanks Guys...

Actually I should probably do a little bit of a timeline/summary post. One thing that was very hard when I came here is that it was very easy to get discouraged. I did not see many people who were talking about a recovering alcoholic - most were/are in the midst of crisis when they come here and many have been on the rollercoaster for a very long time.

....but that was good for me in a way. For one thing I am a person who has always found success in my endeavors by outworking the 'competition'. Sheer force of will doesn't make a dent in alcoholism that isn't yours but I was very determined to figure out what the solution would be if there was one to be had.

I arrived at "Either she sinks or she swims and I will be loving and supportive and understanding of the fact that she has a disease, I will work on forgiving and forgetting stuff that happened when she was circling the drain and I am going to have to deal with the hear and now". That's wear the 'discouraging' feedback I got helped me in a weird way. When people said I should prepare for a future of constant upheaval and misery I thought.... Nah, not really sounding like a plan to me....

So what other option was there? That's a ten page story but the short version is that I decided she would get and stay sober or I would walk away and protect our son from her disease and I focused on my needs and my future. Not in a cold or harsh way... I was loving and understanding but also resigned and accepting of the obvious - alcoholism is her issue, not mine. No doctor has ever healed a sick person. A doctor can create the ideal conditions for healing and remove certain risks but the patient heals or they die, it's that simple really. For OUR situation the best environment for healing was for me to get back to life and keep myself sane and happy and be a loving, understanding husband but one who was very clearly not willing to allow or accept the disease to move back in and be a daily part of my life. She's only been away from our son for more than 4 hours once in 8 months - this week while we were packing. She knows that when my daughter's mom had a breakdown years ago I showed no sympathy or remorse whatsoever until my daughter was safe and her mom was under control again and then I relented and allowed 'normal' sharing again.

She did all the work and the woman I believed was in there keeps blossoming and growing and becoming stronger and more capable every day and we are a team now. Moving is going to be good. Only a couple miles but when we moved into the house we are in she was spiraling downward and there are bad memories there. New start as partners is good.

I think that I think her sobriety and progress rests on a three legged stool so to speak. One leg is AA - great group and she has close contact with her sponsor, her sponsor's sponsor etc and the lady two up that chain just celebrated 25 years of sobriety and her sponsees are all tough and effective sponsors. You do the work or you find another sponsor. They are turning her into that type of sponsor now and I'm one of those big picture thinkers who sees all the moving parts of a system. They have a self-sustaining success program that works because they work at it. My wife and the other 5-6 girls who share the same sponsor have to call each other, they do a weekly accountability email - did they do their five meetings? Service? Nightly resentment list? Meditation? Service work? It's a way of life and they seem to have two types - the ones who have weekly relapses and are in and out of trouble and the other 80% who work the program and stay sober - maybe a third of those (the 'youngest' in their sobriety have an occasional slip but they are right back into the program immediately). That's one leg.

The second is that she wants to have the life she always desired and she is a tough and brave woman. She got pissed off at the disease and it threatens her son. A momma grizzly has nothing on her - if you tried to harm that baby she'd cut your throat and try not to get any mess on her shoes and have zero remorse. She is AWESOME as a mommie.

The third is that I am not in the way. I kinda do my own thing and leave her to do hers. She appreciates that I work harder and longer than anyone she knows and appreciates that I don't expect her to 'keep up' in terms of output, just effort - ie, if she is doing her best and making an effort, I'm good with that. I don't take crap or give her crap... and if one of us is pissing the other one off we call it out and don't hold it in. My wants are simple... not sure if they are easy but basically if she will stay sober, be happy and be a good mom then I will work my tail off to provide security, be kind and generous and loving and I don't ask for much else. She appreciates that and is grateful that she can stay home and be a mom and she hates it when I have to travel but knows it is part of the job and I limit it as best I can. It's easier now that I've reached a position where I get to decide my travel schedule for the most part and make my team come to my town for stuff :-) The only thing I provide in the equation is consistent, loving and understanding support for her and an unambiguous but unspoken promise that I am not willing to sit by and watch her harm herself, the baby or me so it is sober or nothing. If she chooses a bottle she has to give up everything else and she likes this life and is happier than she is ever been.

There are a lot of cliches we hear over and over in this world. One that was missing for me was in regard to why alcoholics drink. I have one that makes sense to me... they don't drink to drown out all the peace and happiness in their heart. I do my best to create the conditions where she can be peaceful and happy - that's my responsibility and privilege as a husband and friend. The rest is up to her and she is getting it done one day at a time.

We are happy, we are in love, we are tired due to an 8 month old and my job and life but that's OK. Most of all we are focused on improving ourselves and being our best self and not trying to fix the other person. Funny how much the other person improves when they don't live with an ******* :-)

Final thought for the day and it might help some of you newcomers out there. Al-anon did not help me very much. I think it would have had I been in this world most of my life. What helped me more was going to open speaker meetings of AA. I think I understand why that is now. First - don't read this and write off al-anon, it is absolutely great stuff. The reason AA helped me more is that I already knew that there was no way in hell I was going to stay on the rollercoaster and that it was up to me to choose. What was missing for me was evidence that an alcoholic can get well and stay well in order to give me patience and hope and belief that I was not wasting my time. Year one of sobriety sucks - My wife went through some tough phases and was not 'herself'. She was learning to live without that crutch and it is like a person going out into the noon sun after a month in the dark. Every nerve was raw. She went through some periods of depression and anxiety and ..yuck. Going to AA with her on Saturday nights (open speaker meeting night) let me see and get to know people with 3-4-5 10-25 years of sobriety. Happily married people who are personally and financially successful leading 'normal' lives ...kinda. "Normal" people don't have as much inner peace, comfort in their own skin and compassion as recovering alcoholics probably. When you get to know those people you admire and gravitate toward them and it showed me the life we can have. My wife has to fight for it, I had to believe it. AA showed me a path that she can take and I stay out of it knowing that she has the right people and a plan that works. If your struggle right now is with finding that belief then go to al-anon but go to some open meetings in a strong, established and active AA group. Any local therapist can probably point you toward one. There you can get a look at what is possible if your beloved alcoholic gets well, at Al-anon you will see how your life can be OK if they don't. You probably need to see both in order to keep your **** together through the bad days :-)

love you guys, thanks for always being here when I am not keeping mine together and need a hug or a smack or just a chance to vent.

Florence

I get this. If you're staying with a RA, it's important to know what real recovery looks and sounds like. It's miles away from the quacking and manipulations of someone between benders, as was the case with my white-knuckling, I can do it by myself STBXAH.

Sometimes it's not so obvious, and IMO that's what Al-Anon is for for the partners of RAs. Otherwise you're in their business all the time, trying to catch them doing wrong, and ironically in danger of sabotaging them.

Just my experience.

4MyBoys

Awesome Pohsfriend! I am so happy for you. Life with a new baby can be hard enough, it sounds like you guys have your stuff together.

I wish all three of you the best. And I hope we don't see you again, except for the occasional check in of couse!

Happy Life, 4MyBoys

Rosiepetal

Wow Poh, nice to hear from you & your update really touched me.
I am very happy for the both of you.
Thanks so much for sharing.
I agree one can not live in fear of relapse but be ready if it happens, you have everything in place.
Big hugs.

MsPINKAcres

((PF))

awesome post - glad to see recovery working in both of your lives!

wishing you and your family the very best!

PINK HUGS!

oh - and I agree - open AA meetings and attending a women's conference with AA, NA & Al-Anon women - is where I learned to truly understand and comprenhend the disease part ~ that's how I learned the concept of healthy compassion with my family members that suffer from the disease ~ for me it was crucial to my recovery!