Rawrbomb

Hi all. I'm new here and have been looking for advice online with dealing with an alcoholic friend. To sum up recent events, a friend has been an alcoholic for quite some time and has exploded recently 3x due to alcohol. All 3 times have been violent, hurtful, and just nonsensical. One was with me, one with a mutual friend, and one with a sister of the alcoholic friend. The most recent was the one with the mutual friend. I was not there but after the last incident (in which my friend tried to fight me for imagined insults/shunning by me) we talked and said that this cannot happen again because our friendship cannot last through this. Alas, it happened again... along with hurtful comments insulting me and being paranoid about everyone being against him as well as racist talk about certain ethnicities.

Long story short.. how can I pull the plug on this? He has been a childhood friend since middle school and I care for the guy but I simply can't handle this negativity anymore and am exhausted with trying to help when he does not reciprocate. Sorry for the long post but any feedback is appreciated. Thank you again.

DreamsofSerenity

Hi Rawebomb, Your post was not long at all.

My ex did the blowing up/picking fights routine when he was drunk--I think a lot of alcoholics do. Every time it happened, I always said I wasn't going to tolerate it anymore but the truth is, the only way it stopped for me was when he was out of my life.

IMO, you only have two moves::

1. Set a boundary (and stick to it) that you won't be around him at all when he has been drinking. See how that goes. I made that boundary with my ex but was not able to maintain it. It wasn't as simple as it sounds because my ex would find ways to start the fight before I even knew he was drinking.

2. Tell him you will not be friends with him unless he is sober. Then wait until he is in recovery and contacts you which might take years if it happens at all.

Telling him you won't tolerate his outbursts and then continuing to hang around him when he is drunk will definitely not work (IMO), because alcoholics have no control over what they do while under the influence. I'm sure that your friend wants to stop this behavior and is deeply embarrassed, but he doesn't want to stop it more than he wants to stop drinking so it will continue as long as the drinking does. I've never heard of an alcoholic who makes improvements to his behavior while still drinking. In fact, usually it gets worse.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I know how terrible it is to see the monster within them.

Hammer

You can leave or avoid it anytime you choose.

Need permission?

Only real ethics is if there are kids or others involved you to help get them protection and safety.

But you? Go.

Rawrbomb

Yeah.. it's just tough because I've talked to him about the concept of losing friends due to his alcoholism. He gets extremely hurt and bitter, saying that its messed up of people to give up on him. I've tried to explain that he's the one ruining friendships, not the other way around. In any case... I guess you guys are right. I already made the ultimatum the last time something happened saying that it can never happen again or the friendship has to be over. It happened again so I have to follow through. =(

Florence

Rawrbomb, I had a couple of friends from my college days that never left the bar scene. They've both experienced serious consequences from their drinking. I never witnessed it because I had to cut them off -- just ridiculous, gossipy, sabotaging, sexually inappropriate behavior that seemed out of character but always happened when they were drunk. I have heard about them separately just in the last couple of weeks after 10+ years of no contact. They are exactly where they were -- OR WORSE OFF -- than when I cut the ties. One is in jail for multiple DUIs and fighting and one ran off across the country for the umpteenth time after something didn't go her way and is still joking that she hasn't had sober sex since she was a teenager.

Point being, wherever you go, there you are. Different company, different landscapes, different time of life. You don't have to stay chained to him and his negative, nasty behavior out of a sense of loyalty. He says it's messed up if people don't accept his drunken antics -- but grown ups recognize that love has boundaries based on respect and admiration, and unconditional love is codependency.

DreamsofSerenity

Rawrbomb,

Sorry, I got your name wrong before. I do SR on my phone and refuse to wear my glasses. It's kind of a disaster.

You're right, if you made the ultimatum, you do need to follow through for his sake as much as yours.

I know it totally sucks for you but I think you are doing him a favor. You aren't giving up on him, you are allowing him to face the consequences of his behavior. And who know? He might get sober because of it.

I'm sorry you have to go through this. Losing people to alcoholism is so sad because it feels so preventable--if they would only stop drinking..

doggonecarl

Tough decision, but one you need to make for your own well being.

One of my oldest and dearest friends, sober for 5 years, relapsed and his drinking got progressively worse. On his last visit, because of his non-stop drinking and moral transgressions, I told him he had to leave and couldn't come back until he was sober.

He left, resented me, and because he chose not to get sober I never saw him again. But I never had to deal with the chaos that followed him like shadow.

Carlotta

My best friend is an active alcoholic and I had to set up boundaries with him.
- I will not hang out with him when he is drinking (even half a beer is like switching a light when it comes to his attitude).
- When he goes on a drinking binge (in general on the first of the month) I will not talk to him on the phone. I have a free android app called MrNumber and on the first, I put his calls to straight to voicemail (there is also the option of automatically hanging up).
I also stopped helping him with his bills because if he chooses to spend his $$ on booze then he needs to know that losing his internet or electricity can be a consequence. I still will buy food though even though I know that $$ I spend to help him is $$ I free for him to drink

Set boundaries you are comfortable with and stick to them. I chose not to break our friendship because we went through hell and back together and many times he has had my back but another boundary I have is that if he ever gets violent with me, our friendship will be over and I will call the cops (He has never been violent by the way but I was once in a DV situation and never again).

theuncertainty

A quote that I go back to again and again, when dealing with issues related to AXH (and a couple of my old friends from school) is:

-the character Bob Gu in Vernor Vinge's book Rainbows End

It reminds me that it's OK to either set firm boundaries to keep myself emotionally (and physically) safe, quietly let go of, or quickly step back from relationships that no longer work.

Giving myself that permission can be so difficult.

Rawrbomb

Yeah, see I'm somewhat in the same boat there because my friend and I have been through a lot together. Helped each through dark times and problems. He always made it a point to say that no matter what happens he would never ever fight or hit a friend. Couple months back his drinking made him break that cardinal rule of his. I told him that his drinking made him break one of his most sacred values and he apologized and made an excuse but said it will never happen again. But basically he relapsed with a different friend in Vegas. It's a bit awkward because I was not there to have it happen to me but I guess when it comes down to it theres no real difference. I definitely don't want to sit and wait to have it inevitably happen again with me.

What makes it the hardest is that I don't drink at all, so I can't relate even a little. He sees it as me not wanting to have a good time.. one of his most common drunken outbursts is either "Why are u guys trying to stop me from having a good time" or "Why are you not having a good time with me". He protects himself by saying, "Hey, if I start to get belligerent, just tell me to stop drinking for the night and I'll listen.. but you have to catch me before I'm too drunk to understand that." I shouldn't have to be his drinking monitor... we're adults =(

Tuffgirl

My X used to say things like "just having a good time" and "taking away his fun". It is a very immature perspective on life, especially when those around you are giving you direct feedback that your "fun" isn't fun anymore - at all.

Secondly, this way of protecting himself doesn't fly either - all bets go out the window with a very intoxicated person who is out of control. He can't hear you then.

My long-time best friend and I parted ways after a drunken fight where she told me she wished I was dead. Lots more happened, long story, but we didn't speak or see each other for 5 years. She got a lot worse as her alcoholism progressed; lost everything she had. It finally killed her last October.

Sometimes, we just have to let folks go in order to protect ourselves.

So sorry for your situation. I wish I had better suggestions, but the only thing I know for certain works is removing yourself from being a potential target for alcoholic rage.

LexieCat

You aren't being disloyal by refusing to be a verbal/physical punching bag for this guy, or by refusing to allow him to shift responsibility to you to prevent him from drinking too much. I'm sure his remorse is sincere--he probably hates what he has done--but he can't prevent it from happening again, and neither can you.

And really, that's all you need to say to him. That you are sure he DOESN'T like the fact that he behaved that way, but that every single time he picks up a drink he is allowing for the possibility it will happen again. And that you love him (or whatever it is guys say to each other), but that you are unwilling to hang out with him until he has dealt with this problem. And that means no more drinking.

In a way, he's lucky. When/if he decides he IS ready to quit drinking, he has buddies to hang with who won't encourage him to drink, and who know how to have fun without drinking. That's a huge issue for a lot of young alcoholics. For many of them, ALL their friends drink, and they have no sober friends to hang out with (until they make new ones).

In the meantime, though, I think for your own sanity/peace of mind you are better off cutting this guy loose from your social circle.

Rawrbomb

Thanks guys for the helpful feedback and insight. I ended up talking to my friend about it and we basically broke it down to the fact that he knows he has a problem but still does not want to quit drinking. It's basically something he feels he will do "later" once life is better. I told him that's wishful thinking and that its a crutch.. but it basically fell on deaf ears. He understands the facts but is unwilling to change. The conversation started to shift to how I cannot be around him if he is going to drink and he said it's fine if I leave whenever he drinks. That's not really an ideal arrangement because to be honest... it's not fair to me that my outings are limited to if and when he decides to drink... but I don't think he even thought about that. Also, he adamantly does not understand that by me hanging out with him when he drinks, I am supporting his addiction. His reasoning is simply that because I'm not drinking or buying him drinks that I have nothing to do with it. It boils down to the fact that real friends would not idly sit by and watch someone kill themselves slowly.. For now it seems the arrangement is that I will leave if he decides to drink... but to be honest I am not happy with that. It's just such a negative vibe I don't know if I can hang out with him in general despite the fact that I do know he's a good person overall.

It sucks because he felt offended that I was not acknowledging him cutting down drinking at home or at a mutual friends.. I told him that it's good that he is trying.. but if he's going to blow up and cause a scene every couple months due to drinking, cutting down by 1-2 beers each session is not anything in the big picture at all...

LexieCat

Yup, that's the crux of it, isn't it? My second husband almost died from drinking (serious liver damage, comatose for a week), and he went back to it.

Nice guy, NOT abusive, but I, too, could not stand watching him slowly kill himself. I left him fifteen years ago, and I am amazed he is still alive and still drinking. But I am MUCH more at peace not having to watch his slow suicide.

It sounds as if you are at that point, too. Here's another thing to consider. If you continue to hang out with him, sooner or later you may become embittered to the point where there will be no hope of ever restoring the friendship even if he gets sober. Walk away now, and he will probably seek you out if/when he decides he has had enough.

You sound like a very caring friend, but you have to take care of your own well-being first.