wiscsober

I missed that too! So crazed like Wicked wrote concern for you is important.

wiscsober

fourmaggie I feel for you. My 9th step to my AexW who unbeknownst to me was drinking at the time....dissected every single sentence I wrote, replied bitterly, and on and on....

I apologized several more times, but then just had to write enough is enough...I am not playing games here...(this was through email). In amends I set myself up as a punching bag...but quickly and genuinely asserted myself ...

some points and lately almost each day...I think of her and some of the stupidest things I did, she did, pop in to my mind....

not living in the day...

also I am taking on my addiction and alcoholism head first

HopefulinFLA

@ HopefulMom I sometimes wonder if it's a selfish personality that is more apt to become an alcoholic. It is such a self centered disease!

LexieCat

I seriously doubt that. From what I've observed in the hundreds of alcoholics I've known, it seems like the most common denominator in terms of personality is that alcoholics are people who are uncomfortable with themselves, and with life. Alcohol makes people who feel like misfits, or somehow not good enough, feel competent, pretty/handsome, witty, charming, funny, brave, tough, all that good stuff. And they also have an unusual tolerance for alcohol, or develop one quickly. I think it is the addiction that develops that makes them selfish. Depending on how early they become addicted to alcohol, they may never have emotionally matured at all, or they may be stunted that way. The selfishness and emotional immaturity can be addressed through the recovery process (part of what the 12 Steps are intended to address).

My opinion, but I think there are a lot of people who would agree.

HopefulmomtoD

I know several addicts/alcoholics, so admittedly not that many. My DS was always on the selfish side so in his case, it definitely came before the alcohol. The other addicts I know are also fairly selfish, but I'm not sure which came first. The addicts/alcoholics in my life also tend to be impulsive, immediate gratification types.

But, I think many of us are uncomfortable in our own skins at times. I don't like big crowds at all. I'd rather have lunch with a girlfriend than go to a party. I also have insecurities. So, I can understand the feeling that one likes following drinking alcohol (or some drugs) and the feeling of using it be more at ease. But, I can also play the tape all the way through and think what would happen to my family, etc. if I chose to drink or drug all of the time. I have the ability to weigh the options and think about the consequences and how those decisions effect everyone- not just me. My son has never been good about assessing risk/reward.

But, these are all just generalities based on my experiences. Crazed's discussing how his girlfriend only talked of herself really struck a chord with me. Last summer, my DH and I drove almost every weekend several hours to go and visit our son. And, it was without fail, he never asked about us or the his brother or sister or grandparents, etc. It was all about him. Always.

Sobriety/working on recovery have made it better, but as I said earlier, thinking of others definitely does not come to him naturally.

Hammer

For a while after she came back from rehab, I put AAA[Mrs. Hammer] as the tag for Mrs. Hammer on my phone. That way I knew when the phone rang, it would be Always All About Mrs. Hammer.

Changed it back to just her name when I figured out that kind of stuff just put me in crazy with her.

But sitting back and watching, the Selfishness is in everything. Even the kids. She talks about how she needs or wants the kids. I talk in terms of that I want good stuff for the kids. Always All About Mrs. Hammer.

LexieCat

I suspect, though, that if you DID pick up a drink during those uncomfortable situations, you would feel yucky at some point and that you had had enough. You wouldn't feel like the heavens had opened and saved you by the miracle of the wonderful warm liquid going down your throat.

That seems to be the difference with alcoholics/addicts. The alcohol/drug is the solution to their problem. They CAN'T "play the tape through" because all they know is that this makes them feel awesome and OK, and they can't believe it will ever turn on them.

And probably most alcoholism and addiction starts when the person is still in their teens--not a time noted for mature reflection. Most teens are, in my experience, pretty self-conscious and self-centered--even the ones who later mature out of it.

Mightyqueen801

I believe this to be true. I know that others don't agree with me, but it's very much a common denominator--the inability to see anything from another's point of view or to understand how one's actions affect others. It's a little weird.

On the other hand, once we know this about the alcoholics in our lives, if we keep on trying to MAKE them care about us when they simply don't have the capacity to do so, that's "a little weird", too.

Now I have met a couple of alcoholics who were in recovery for a long time who seemed to have been able to move forward and make true connections with others and pick up on other people's cues and were aware of how they affected other people. I've also known a person who was in long-term recovery (23+ years) who was never able to get it. He just did not understand why people got annoyed with him if he did things that affected them without stopping to think about whether his actions would do so. If someone pointed it out to him plainly, he appeared confused by what they said and would simply restate his own POV. And the crazy part was, he is a successful psychologist who treats others, but he could not see where he was going sideways in his own relationships, with his wife, for example.

It is all very interesting to observe once you are out of the thick of it.

wicked

I am in recovery from alcohol, and I am what LexieCat wrote about, I had a drink at 15 years old and finally felt comfortable in my own skin.
I wanted more of that. So, I continued, way past the point of being comfortable, all the way to black out drunks at the age of 36.

I have two addicted children, and I have to swallow a bitter pill that I made it all about them.
Even when I knew what addiction did to my father and my life, still they were more important.
I taught them that they were more important than my life. My recovery. My time.

If you made that trip willingly, and I wonder if he expected it, because that is what
he has been taught.

No, I am certainly not blaming you at all.
I am not saying he has been taught to think only of himself because you showed him you love him by being there for him.
I am sharing my experience, and it was a tough one that is still biting me in the butt today.
I am sorry you have an addicted son. I have one too, and the pain is bad.

With all my knowledge, generations of addictions and still, 2 out of 3 children are addicted, and yes, selfish.

My guilt over my addiction led me astray as far as discipline, and confusing discipline with my father's view of discipline (abuse).
I had no idea how to raise children. My parents were both very sick.
I did not want my kids to be afraid of me.
My daughter has told me I was too soft on her.
My son said that I was very very loving and understanding, but he knew that whatever he did,
I did not have it in me to discipline him harshly, or even stick with it.

Maybe my selfishness showed up in another way, being so soft on my kids,
so I did not have to deal with them being mad at me.
wow. another tough pill to swallow.
yuck.

I am working on it though.
My daughter and I had an argument last week.
I was afraid she was mad at me.
I called her and apologized, she said,
"Mom, you were right, why are you apologizing?"
(the argument was about selfishness LOL)

We are talking about being really really honest with each other,
and it is the only way to have a good relationship.
Always working on it.
Striving for perfection, but never reaching it.

I hope something in this long ramble was helpful to someone.
I know it helped me a lot!

Thank you all for this discussion.
I was reading and started feeling very defensive.
Then I knew it was something I needed to think about!


Beth

HopefulmomtoD

You make good points. And, honestly, the recovering alcoholics like you and others who share so freely on the site and who have helped me so much obviously dispel the notion that all alcoholics are selfish.

HopefulmomtoD

Beth,

You are correct in that much of his feelings of such high self importance could have come from his Dad and me always putting our kids first. I don't think either one of us were selfish enough for ourselves. Heck, we sure didn't have to drive up to visit him every weekend. (And, we did figure out toward the end that we weren't really "helping" him by doing so.)

Of course, I have three kids. And, all were treated the same and he's the one that is sooooo selfish and an alcoholic. So, who knows? He probably just got the right combo of genes.

I'm sorry if any of my posts made you feel badly. I always get so much from your posts and obviously just the fact that you share so much of your time here helping others pretty much proves that ALL alcoholics are not selfish, lol.

I'm sorry, too, you know the pain of a child with addiction. Its the worst.

DreamsofSerenity

My ex is more uncomfortable in his own skin than he is innately selfish. He's very tall but never had any athleticism to go with it. He wears his height awkwardly, has bad posture, and just looks TOO tall. And he isn't a good looking man, in fact he is pretty unattractive. He's a very sensitive personality type, I'd also categorize him as a coward. I really don't think he is selfish by nature. I think he acts selfishly because he has to to protect his addiction.

Although his relationships never last, he's never had a shortage of women. He's a well known artist and he's abusive. And unfortunately there are a lot of us codie women who are attracted to that crap. So I think the drinking really did serve its purpose for him for a very long time. Who am I kidding? It STILL is working for him. (I just had an aha moment writing this)

DreamsofSerenity

FWIW, Hopefulmom and Wicked, I hate to see you be so hard on yourselves for putting your kids first. I always though that was just good parenting. There are many addicts whose parents were totally absent. Addiction is practically an epidemic.

Mightyqueen801

LMAO, I was just reading that and thinking that if I was in a different place than I am now, I'd be easy pickin's for someone like that. "It's just his artistic temperament." I can hear that coming out of my mouth at one time.

wicked

Oh no, I want to tell you how much what you said meant to me
I had one of those "aha" moments when writing my last post.
A blessing to me.

Even though my children are adults now, and I cannot change the past, (no matter
how badly I treat myself with guilt) I can still define and change how we communicate now.

I still have the present to use and teach my children how I want to be treated in the future.
Amazing!

I wonder if I start treating my guilt like a bad habit instead of a cat o nine tails,
maybe I would be able to be rid of most of it?

Another change of view, and another AHA!

Your posts have never made me feel badly, I empathize with you as a mother of an addicted child.
Thank you for your kind words about me not being selfish and my time here has
been a help to others.

What a great way to start the day!
I hope you have a great day too.

Beth

HopefulmomtoD

I will say though that I have taken pain pills for medical procedures and really liked the way they made me feel. I have always finished the prescription (ugh ... that was HARD to write and admit). I've never tried to get a refill or tried to get a script when I didn't need one, ... so that's what I think I mean when I say I'm playing the tape through. I wouldn't want to become addicted and not be able to take care of my family. I'd also be embarrassed and hate to disappoint those that love me, etc.

I also hate the hungover feeling from alcohol and medications, so that could also be a deterrent to taking things further.

Finding out my son is an alcoholic, and seeing that I have tendencies that could make me abuse substances, I will not be getting pain pill prescriptions filled unless it is absolutely necessary. Our home is drug and alcohol free zone, lol.

DreamsofSerenity

MightyQueen,

Haha. Yep, those types are definitely my DOC!

Mightyqueen801

Hey, wiscsober, saw this on your signature:


06-18-2013, 09:55 AM Quit Smoking

How is it going? June 12 was 18 months for me. I quit after more than 35 years of Newports. I've been a heavy drinker and a recreational drug user but through the luck of the genetic draw I have never been addicted to anything except nicotine. It feels good to be a non-smoker. The first month was hardest-felt as if I'd lost my best friend, as pathetic as that sounds. Best of luck to you.

Mightyqueen801

My AHA moment for that was my therapist saying, "He provided you with the crises you need."

DreamsofSerenity

I am not saying I disagree by any means--I'm still learning--but can someone explain how us codies are as selfish as alcoholics? I do not see this.