Do I need to listen to this or not?
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Do I need to listen to this or not?
Wonder if you guys can help me think about this: Hub continues to tell me (not often, only once in a while) about things he has done related to drinking/hiding. For instance, he told me that he did not get his 30-day chip b/c he drank at some point last weekend, but had gone to his sponsor about it and was trying again. True to form, I didn't notice anything b/c he "controlled" how much he drank and kept it below the radar. I accepted this information in the spirit of open communication.
Yesterday at the one meeting we attend jointly (it is a Buddhist-flavored 12-step meeting, people of all stripes there), it was his turn to share and he mentioned that he drank, but he mentioned that it was over the course of 3 days and specifically mentioned that I didn't notice. I was somewhat upset by the fact that it was 3 times, not one, and that he specifically said that I didn't notice. Now that is likely stupid on my part, right? What is the difference? I guess I didn't like that he said it in front of others b/c it made me feel stupid. I didn't make any kind of production or show that I was upset, though.
Now today he mentioned hiding his booze bottles in the recycle cart so I wouldn't see them, and how he was always careful to not put the cart out for pickup on windy days, as he feared it being blown over and strewing the evidence of his addiction all over the sidewalk. Again, I felt upset.
In the past, when he was making revelations of this type, he said it made him feel better to be honest w/me about the things he had done and that's why he did it. I said it felt to me like he was rubbing my face in the fact that he had fooled me for so long, that I felt stupid, and he should share those things w/his sponsor, not me. He honored that for a while. Now he's doing it again. In good codependent fashion, I am all concerned that if I DON'T listen to it, I will discourage him from being honest with me. Now, that is not even mine to worry about, right?
I would be so appreciative of any insights anyone has. I am just torn between saying "keep it to yourself, I don't want to know that stuff" and thinking that somehow I owe it to him to listen, or maybe that if I know all this stuff, I'll somehow be able to know what's going on and not be fooled in the future.
Hmmm--maybe answered my own question, just by typing this out....still, I would like to hear what my "virtual sponsors" have to say to me, since I don't have a "real" one at this point. Thanks in advance.
Yesterday at the one meeting we attend jointly (it is a Buddhist-flavored 12-step meeting, people of all stripes there), it was his turn to share and he mentioned that he drank, but he mentioned that it was over the course of 3 days and specifically mentioned that I didn't notice. I was somewhat upset by the fact that it was 3 times, not one, and that he specifically said that I didn't notice. Now that is likely stupid on my part, right? What is the difference? I guess I didn't like that he said it in front of others b/c it made me feel stupid. I didn't make any kind of production or show that I was upset, though.
Now today he mentioned hiding his booze bottles in the recycle cart so I wouldn't see them, and how he was always careful to not put the cart out for pickup on windy days, as he feared it being blown over and strewing the evidence of his addiction all over the sidewalk. Again, I felt upset.
In the past, when he was making revelations of this type, he said it made him feel better to be honest w/me about the things he had done and that's why he did it. I said it felt to me like he was rubbing my face in the fact that he had fooled me for so long, that I felt stupid, and he should share those things w/his sponsor, not me. He honored that for a while. Now he's doing it again. In good codependent fashion, I am all concerned that if I DON'T listen to it, I will discourage him from being honest with me. Now, that is not even mine to worry about, right?
I would be so appreciative of any insights anyone has. I am just torn between saying "keep it to yourself, I don't want to know that stuff" and thinking that somehow I owe it to him to listen, or maybe that if I know all this stuff, I'll somehow be able to know what's going on and not be fooled in the future.
Hmmm--maybe answered my own question, just by typing this out....still, I would like to hear what my "virtual sponsors" have to say to me, since I don't have a "real" one at this point. Thanks in advance.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Honeypig--for my 2cents, I wouldn't even let him get a whole sentence out of his mouth before I would say---"That is for your sponsor". If he persists, I would say "How you deal with your drinking is none of my business". If he persists after that, say "I am not going to listen to this" and leave the area.
As for what is going on in his mind about this--who knows? it could be anything! It is not a good thing though. Just set a boundry and don't try to over-analyze it. Over-analyzing what an alcoholic is thinking will drive you absolutely nuts!
Good luck (LOL).
dandylion
As for what is going on in his mind about this--who knows? it could be anything! It is not a good thing though. Just set a boundry and don't try to over-analyze it. Over-analyzing what an alcoholic is thinking will drive you absolutely nuts!
Good luck (LOL).
dandylion
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
He isn't telling you anything that EVERY alcoholic hasn't done. Sometimes we get away with it, for a while, and we start feeling pretty smug and smart about it.
I would just let it pass through. He is more trying to own up to the truth of what he did, than trying to embarrass you. Believe me, nobody at that recovery group had you pegged as dumb or clueless. Alcoholics can be very sneaky.
Some things are hurtful enough that they really SHOULDN'T be fessed up to. But hiding drinking is classic, garden-variety behavior. I think it's a good sign that he did tell his sponsor, that he did NOT pick up his 30-day chip when he hadn't earned it, and that he is being honest about his lies (paradoxical though that sounds). He doesn't deserve a medal either for his behavior or for coming clean about it, but it does show progress in the right direction, IMHO. He isn't proud of what he did, or trying to continue to do it.
You don't have to engage with him about it, you can be as blase as you want to. "Oh, really? Wow."
I would just let it pass through. He is more trying to own up to the truth of what he did, than trying to embarrass you. Believe me, nobody at that recovery group had you pegged as dumb or clueless. Alcoholics can be very sneaky.
Some things are hurtful enough that they really SHOULDN'T be fessed up to. But hiding drinking is classic, garden-variety behavior. I think it's a good sign that he did tell his sponsor, that he did NOT pick up his 30-day chip when he hadn't earned it, and that he is being honest about his lies (paradoxical though that sounds). He doesn't deserve a medal either for his behavior or for coming clean about it, but it does show progress in the right direction, IMHO. He isn't proud of what he did, or trying to continue to do it.
You don't have to engage with him about it, you can be as blase as you want to. "Oh, really? Wow."
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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First, as far as discouraging him from being honest with you, he is not being honest with you. He is hiding and lying and then coming clean later. That's not honest, at least not in my book.
Second, you have asked him not to share this information because it makes you uncomfortable. Yet, he does it anyway. So, he's not being respectful of your feelings or your wishes either.
Of course it's up to you how you want to handle it.
L
Second, you have asked him not to share this information because it makes you uncomfortable. Yet, he does it anyway. So, he's not being respectful of your feelings or your wishes either.
Of course it's up to you how you want to handle it.
L
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
One other thought popped into my head, too. May or may not be applicable. It could be that by telling you this, he is trying to explain WHY you didn't know he had been drinking. IOW, it wasn't that you were dumb or oblivious, but that you hadn't known because he had made a special effort to conceal it.
I don't know your husband, obviously, but to me his statements are what I would expect of someone who WANTS to learn to live honestly, but isn't quite there yet. Remember, he's had years and years of hiding and lying. Those habits do not go away overnight. They often go away during the course of recovery and step work.
I don't know your husband, obviously, but to me his statements are what I would expect of someone who WANTS to learn to live honestly, but isn't quite there yet. Remember, he's had years and years of hiding and lying. Those habits do not go away overnight. They often go away during the course of recovery and step work.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
So much help so quick! I knew I could count on you all...
Thanks for helping me to figure out what I think I already knew.
La Tee Da, thank you for the great clarification on being honest!! That goes in my "Wisdom of SR" file for sure. That is wonderful.
Lexie, the "passing thru" of the info feels right to me as a response. Thanks for confirming that this can be OK, at least for now. Also greatly appreciate the thoughts on why this may be important for him. Your perspective as an RA is invaluable.
Dandylion, thanks for your suggestions and your kind wishes.
What a great crew we have here--you guys make me all choked up w/your willingness to share what you've learned.
Thanks for helping me to figure out what I think I already knew.
La Tee Da, thank you for the great clarification on being honest!! That goes in my "Wisdom of SR" file for sure. That is wonderful.
Lexie, the "passing thru" of the info feels right to me as a response. Thanks for confirming that this can be OK, at least for now. Also greatly appreciate the thoughts on why this may be important for him. Your perspective as an RA is invaluable.
Dandylion, thanks for your suggestions and your kind wishes.
What a great crew we have here--you guys make me all choked up w/your willingness to share what you've learned.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by Tuffgirl 
Honeypig, in my humble opinion, the fact that you didn't notice means your focus is right where it needs to be - ON YOU and your own life.
Way to go!!!
Way to go!!!
I agree, you're doing great!
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Honeypig, I am with TG on this. Dunno if you follow this -- but that YOU DID NOT EVEN NOTICE -- speaks wonders for YOU!
SUPER JOB. "their" drama, horsesh1t and crap is not yours (or mine, ours, etc).
Again, Super.
Remember the olde "If a tree falls in the woods . . . " philosophy question?
For this application looks like this >>>
Question: If a drunk drinks in the woods and no one notices did they still drink?
Answer: We don't care. Not our problem.
SUPER JOB. "their" drama, horsesh1t and crap is not yours (or mine, ours, etc).
Again, Super.
Remember the olde "If a tree falls in the woods . . . " philosophy question?
For this application looks like this >>>
Question: If a drunk drinks in the woods and no one notices did they still drink?
Answer: We don't care. Not our problem.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by Hammer
Question: If a drunk drinks in the woods and no one notices did they still drink?
Answer: We don't care. Not our problem.
Answer: We don't care. Not our problem.
OMG this is brilliant! Too funny!!!
.................................................. ...............
Oh wait - I thought at first you said "falls in the woods"... that's different!
Still funny though!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Hammer, that is really, really funny! Gotta save that in my "Wisdom of SR" file...
His hiding skills have always been so much better than my detective skills, I've never really engaged too much in trying to "catch" him. Guess I knew it would be futile and refused to stoop to that. Never thought about it actually being a good way to be--I just kind of felt stupid and unobservant. Thanks for putting that in a different light for me.
Thanks so much for all the insight, folks! It's still very early days, but I feel like things are heading in the right direction. I'll keep on trudging.
His hiding skills have always been so much better than my detective skills, I've never really engaged too much in trying to "catch" him. Guess I knew it would be futile and refused to stoop to that. Never thought about it actually being a good way to be--I just kind of felt stupid and unobservant. Thanks for putting that in a different light for me.
Thanks so much for all the insight, folks! It's still very early days, but I feel like things are heading in the right direction. I'll keep on trudging.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
You are doing great, honeypig. It's not stupidity that led you to not noticing - its a form of detachment that is actually very healthy. I didn't notice a lot of things too. I was too busy living my own life to be all up in his business all the time.
Here's a thought...if you are uncomfortable with what he shares, you have some choices about how to handle it next time.
1. Don't go to the same meetings
2. Throw a healthy dose of humor into the mix
3. Don't take his statements personally - they reflect badly on him alone anyway - can you imagine what the other spouses of A's thought? It wasn't "wow honeypig sure is stupid!" It was probably more like "what an a-hole!"
4. Make your point passive-aggressively...talk about how detachment works for you!!
But most importantly - don't take his statements personally! This is not a reflection on you as his spouse. This is a reflection on him about his addict lying ways.
Here's a thought...if you are uncomfortable with what he shares, you have some choices about how to handle it next time.
1. Don't go to the same meetings
2. Throw a healthy dose of humor into the mix
3. Don't take his statements personally - they reflect badly on him alone anyway - can you imagine what the other spouses of A's thought? It wasn't "wow honeypig sure is stupid!" It was probably more like "what an a-hole!"
4. Make your point passive-aggressively...talk about how detachment works for you!!
But most importantly - don't take his statements personally! This is not a reflection on you as his spouse. This is a reflection on him about his addict lying ways.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 147
My wife and I talked about her sobriety when she was about 6-9 mo sober (she spent first 3 mo in rehab, next 3 we were seperated, sober now for 4 years in Sept). I told her part of my condition for taking her back was complete honesty. She drinks and admits it, I will see how I feel. She drinks and hides it, she's out the door.
I spent 5-6 years dealing with her drinking and lying. It lead to her having an affair with my best friend. I love her but if she falls off the wagon and begins lying to me, she's out the door.
I told her full honesty is the only way this relationship will survive.
I spent 5-6 years dealing with her drinking and lying. It lead to her having an affair with my best friend. I love her but if she falls off the wagon and begins lying to me, she's out the door.
I told her full honesty is the only way this relationship will survive.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by choublak
Why are you going to meetings with him?
So no, I'm not sitting in his AA meetings with him, Choublak, nor is he sitting in my Alanon meetings with me. Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear about that. It is just this one meeting that we attend together, and the only reason we go together is that there is only one session per week.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fluttering About
Posts: 3,760
Hi honeypig
Why allow his stuff to disrupt your peace and serenity?
None of us are perfect and it even tells us this at the end of HOW IT WORKS...It is about spiritual progress..and practice... And in the chapter on acceptance it talks about those expectations we have of ourselves & others and how they can lead to resentments and do in fact upset the applecart where our own personal serenity and peace is concerned.
Regardless of the chaos around me today I can be at peace. I do not have to choose to be the victim of circumstance or volunteer my serenity to other's BS as long as I stay in my own hula hoop and just concentrate on keeping my own side of the street clean and BE THE EXAMPLE.
I strive not to judge others and keep the mirror turned the right way ..When I see or hear other's violating a principle or a tradition I ensure the mirror is clean and say a prayer that God keeps me my right size and continues to teach me and guide me.
I did not cause the problem in others..I cannot control it in others and I sure as heck cannot not cure it..
I carry the message--NOT the mess. and I try to remember to carry the Q-TIP which means
Quit
Taking
It
Personally
Peace on the journey
Why allow his stuff to disrupt your peace and serenity?
None of us are perfect and it even tells us this at the end of HOW IT WORKS...It is about spiritual progress..and practice... And in the chapter on acceptance it talks about those expectations we have of ourselves & others and how they can lead to resentments and do in fact upset the applecart where our own personal serenity and peace is concerned.
Regardless of the chaos around me today I can be at peace. I do not have to choose to be the victim of circumstance or volunteer my serenity to other's BS as long as I stay in my own hula hoop and just concentrate on keeping my own side of the street clean and BE THE EXAMPLE.
I strive not to judge others and keep the mirror turned the right way ..When I see or hear other's violating a principle or a tradition I ensure the mirror is clean and say a prayer that God keeps me my right size and continues to teach me and guide me.
I did not cause the problem in others..I cannot control it in others and I sure as heck cannot not cure it..
I carry the message--NOT the mess. and I try to remember to carry the Q-TIP which means
Quit
Taking
It
Personally
Peace on the journey
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
As I explained in the original post, this is a Buddhist-flavored 12-step program that we both attend. The members of this group include several overeaters, a sex addict, several alcoholics, some folks who identify themselves as codependents, and several who claim more than one problem. It is not dedicated solely to one type of issue.
I would love to find this kind of meeting! It sounds very interesting.
Trying to learn to stay in my hula hoop with others dance to their own tune around me!
Beth
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I went to a similar recovery meeting once at the Philadelphia Shambhala Center. I went especially to hear Kevin Griffin speak--he's the author of One Breath at a Time. I found it interesting, though I wouldn't want to replace my AA meetings with it. I found it difficult to relate to a lot of the other "issues" that people were dealing with.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
I found it difficult to relate to a lot of the other "issues" that people were dealing with.
It does sound fascinating from a people watcher (which I love to do) point of view.
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