An accidental trip to Wonderland and OZ
Empathy is Revolutionary.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 34
An accidental trip to Wonderland and OZ
It has been a short while since I've updated. Just thought I'd let everyone know how things have been going, my thought's and concern's.
Last time I posted, Mr. Hero and I were in a much more appreciative space than when I first came to SR. Since then, he's had small bumps here and there but nothing major. He's now two week's into his sobriety, of his own violation might I add. This took me by surprise because he didn't even tell me that's what he was going to do till he was four day's in. Moreover, he's been pursuing more hours at work which has not only contributed to his sobriety success but his paycheck as well. In my opinion, under every addiction is a sense of powerlessness and vulnerability. Now, that Mr. Hero has found his focus, in some small way his addiction has lessened.
In term's of where I am, I've been going to al-anon meetings, reading up on alcoholism and reading the post on SR. For me, my intention was always to have a heightened sense of awareness for the situation I'm in. Though the knowledge I've gained has truly broadened my perception and understanding of the addiction, the path in my opinion has been rather rocky.
At my al- anon meetings, I've experienced what I can only call rigidity, ostracizing and an unyielding pressure for conformity from certain individuals. This, however, may not have been their intention but this is how I experienced it.
Some examples of such things were, when I decided to speak with a woman from my meeting privately on the phone. I further explained my circumstance in detail and she graciously listened but the first thing she asked was,"Are you and your boyfriend still together?" I responded honestly and told her, "Yes," Not only that but I went on to give detailed description as to why we are still together by stating, "From what has happened in our relationship, he still hasn't denied me any of the requirements I need(such as honesty and communication), he's continuously tried to improve in the area's where he's lacking and the problems we've had don't out way to factual good that happens more often than not. I didn't explain further out of a sense insecurity to explain my stance but out of integrity.
Unfortunately, she didn't seem pleased with my answer(not that I was trying to please her) and almost seemed close-minded to the notion of me continuing a relationship with an alcoholic. She emphasized,"The disease is alway's the same." I understood that quite well. It was logical; a science. However, what I believe is lacking from that statement is, "Underneath the disease there's a person, a human being. And human beings are vast in character and mind." From the generous opinion's I've acquired through Al- anon and SR, my experience from some people has been more than direct, dare I say commanding almost. I understand that some people connect and bond through pain but I've gained the perception that some people tend to only care about the negative.
My last post only received three responses and even after some time has passed, no one else has added. When I first came and was dealing with turmoil, I received a healthy amount of responses. This of course, is all my experience and how I perceived other's around me.
I still welcome all opinion's as everyone's perception and feeling's are valid but what I know for sure is, you have to be quiet enough to hear God's voice so you can find your own.
Last time I posted, Mr. Hero and I were in a much more appreciative space than when I first came to SR. Since then, he's had small bumps here and there but nothing major. He's now two week's into his sobriety, of his own violation might I add. This took me by surprise because he didn't even tell me that's what he was going to do till he was four day's in. Moreover, he's been pursuing more hours at work which has not only contributed to his sobriety success but his paycheck as well. In my opinion, under every addiction is a sense of powerlessness and vulnerability. Now, that Mr. Hero has found his focus, in some small way his addiction has lessened.
In term's of where I am, I've been going to al-anon meetings, reading up on alcoholism and reading the post on SR. For me, my intention was always to have a heightened sense of awareness for the situation I'm in. Though the knowledge I've gained has truly broadened my perception and understanding of the addiction, the path in my opinion has been rather rocky.
At my al- anon meetings, I've experienced what I can only call rigidity, ostracizing and an unyielding pressure for conformity from certain individuals. This, however, may not have been their intention but this is how I experienced it.
Some examples of such things were, when I decided to speak with a woman from my meeting privately on the phone. I further explained my circumstance in detail and she graciously listened but the first thing she asked was,"Are you and your boyfriend still together?" I responded honestly and told her, "Yes," Not only that but I went on to give detailed description as to why we are still together by stating, "From what has happened in our relationship, he still hasn't denied me any of the requirements I need(such as honesty and communication), he's continuously tried to improve in the area's where he's lacking and the problems we've had don't out way to factual good that happens more often than not. I didn't explain further out of a sense insecurity to explain my stance but out of integrity.
Unfortunately, she didn't seem pleased with my answer(not that I was trying to please her) and almost seemed close-minded to the notion of me continuing a relationship with an alcoholic. She emphasized,"The disease is alway's the same." I understood that quite well. It was logical; a science. However, what I believe is lacking from that statement is, "Underneath the disease there's a person, a human being. And human beings are vast in character and mind." From the generous opinion's I've acquired through Al- anon and SR, my experience from some people has been more than direct, dare I say commanding almost. I understand that some people connect and bond through pain but I've gained the perception that some people tend to only care about the negative.
My last post only received three responses and even after some time has passed, no one else has added. When I first came and was dealing with turmoil, I received a healthy amount of responses. This of course, is all my experience and how I perceived other's around me.
I still welcome all opinion's as everyone's perception and feeling's are valid but what I know for sure is, you have to be quiet enough to hear God's voice so you can find your own.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
My own perception, Metallic, is that you see yourself and "Mr. Hero" as somehow exceptions to the reality of alcoholism, as it is experienced by most people. That is, of course, your privilege, but it does make it rather difficult to communicate with you from the perspective of shared experience. I suspect that is what it is YOU are perceiving in the reactions of others.
You have every right to view your situation as unique. I personally don't think it is as unique as you think it is, but it isn't my job, or anyone else's, to convince you otherwise. It does, however, sort of limit the breadth and scope of the conversation or support we can offer you. You are experiencing your relationship with your alcoholic in a much different way than most of us here are. So we can all wish you the best--I know *I* do--but I don't know that I can tell you much of anything you care to hear or to apply to your own situation.
Just my take on the situation.
You have every right to view your situation as unique. I personally don't think it is as unique as you think it is, but it isn't my job, or anyone else's, to convince you otherwise. It does, however, sort of limit the breadth and scope of the conversation or support we can offer you. You are experiencing your relationship with your alcoholic in a much different way than most of us here are. So we can all wish you the best--I know *I* do--but I don't know that I can tell you much of anything you care to hear or to apply to your own situation.
Just my take on the situation.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
To hell in a handbasket....
This of course, is all my experience and how I perceived other's around me.
I agree with Lexie in that you think that your experience with your boyfriend is different than everyone else's.
The only thing that is different is there are two different people.
You are still eligible for all the bad stuff that will happen when one partner continues down the road to alcoholism.
Your posts are hard to understand, I am not sure what you are looking for here.
"From what has happened in our relationship, he still hasn't denied me any of the requirements I need(such as honesty and communication), he's continuously tried to improve in the area's where he's lacking and the problems we've had don't out way to factual good that happens more often than not. I didn't explain further out of a sense insecurity to explain my stance but out of integrity.
I am not convinced of whatever you are trying to do here.
Are you supposed to be super Mr. and Mrs. Hero, beat all the odds of alcoholism and live happily ever after?
I still welcome all opinion's as everyone's perception and feeling's are valid but what I know for sure is, you have to be quiet enough to hear God's voice so you can find your own.
And, I gotta tell ya, I think that is the only voice you will ever hear, is your own.
What the AlAnon lady said is true, the disease stays the same.
What you said is true (about people being vast and different), and it doesn't matter about what a person is, it is a disease, it does not discriminate between heroes and villains.
It just is.
Sorry, it is harsh, because alcoholism is harsh.
Commanding in my tone?
I guess so, alcoholism and other addictions have ruined so many people
I am related to and know very well. Killed my niece at 20 years old.
All this Mr. Hero stuff..........geez it is ridiculous.
Beth
LexieCat said:
You are experiencing your relationship with your alcoholic in a much different way than most of us here are.
Well, yeah. If you knew anything about life with an alcoholic you would feel it too.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
If you feel Al-Anon is not for you, you might read the AA Big Book to get a take on alcoholism from recovering alcoholics themselves. You can find it online or you can purchase it through an online bookstore. The title is "Alcoholics Anonymous." The online version is Big Book Online Fourth Edition.
The original personality and morals and motivations of the individual are replaced, in addiction, by what is called the alcoholic personality. I believe the Al-anon person may have been referring to that fact when she said the disease is always the same. The alcoholic personality is so specific that if it is described in a book or in a meeting, those who have been affected by someone with alcoholism instantly recognize the traits.
If you are comfortable in your relationship with your alcoholic partner and are not in any need of support right now, then perhaps that could explain the lack of responses.
The original personality and morals and motivations of the individual are replaced, in addiction, by what is called the alcoholic personality. I believe the Al-anon person may have been referring to that fact when she said the disease is always the same. The alcoholic personality is so specific that if it is described in a book or in a meeting, those who have been affected by someone with alcoholism instantly recognize the traits.
If you are comfortable in your relationship with your alcoholic partner and are not in any need of support right now, then perhaps that could explain the lack of responses.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NE Wisconsin USA
Posts: 6,223
Thanks MetallicThorn
I gathered from this post that you and your SO are doing very well.
It is not up to me to figure out if you are doing something right or wrong.
I'm supportive of your attendance at Alanon....changed my life
If the problems you have with Alanon is all than you got it made.
Remember we focus on ourselves not the alcoholic, nor even family or another Alanon member....
there is no need to react and draw drama back in to our lives...
the people who so far posted have given you great advice, suggestions, and have spent quite a bit of time replying to you.....
much in our lives can be applied with SR posts....it's not the quantity of replies....but the quality
Not sure.....your recovery depends on you and not your SO being in recovery or not. Your recovery depends on you and not an Alanon with different views.
Well again best to you and peace.
Another great spot to end my night with!!!
I gathered from this post that you and your SO are doing very well.
It is not up to me to figure out if you are doing something right or wrong.
I'm supportive of your attendance at Alanon....changed my life
If the problems you have with Alanon is all than you got it made.
Remember we focus on ourselves not the alcoholic, nor even family or another Alanon member....
there is no need to react and draw drama back in to our lives...
the people who so far posted have given you great advice, suggestions, and have spent quite a bit of time replying to you.....
much in our lives can be applied with SR posts....it's not the quantity of replies....but the quality
Not sure.....your recovery depends on you and not your SO being in recovery or not. Your recovery depends on you and not an Alanon with different views.
Well again best to you and peace.
Another great spot to end my night with!!!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Hi Metallic Thorn,
I was in the same place you are now... completely smitten with the man I knew my A was destined to become! He had soooo much potential and I adored him sober. I spent 4 years hovering, helicoptering, running interference, cleaning up his disasters and succeeded in forcing him into recovery over and over again!
Problem was my "Mr. Wonderful" always relapsed... eventually. I began to call them "relapse vacations" because he always hit the wall and jumped back on the wagon and would get sober again when either a hospital bed or jail cell stopped the music.
Of course, that wasn't the case in his twenties as he was more of a functioning alcoholic but the disesase is progressive and he is battling liver issues, high blood pressure and just a few days ago broke his ankle in Vegas and is now gimping around to his drinking and gambling haunts on alcohol, benzos, opiate pain pills.
He was the shining star of recovery and I thought he would end up on the AA circuit with his incredible stories and his profound insight into the disease. Problem was he just wasn't done drinking and probably never will be... I think he will die in his disease.
I shared all of that because the odds are very, very bad in the case of severe alcoholics.... only a handful recover for life. The vast majority remain alcoholics although they can drift in and out of sobriety and as codies we join them in the denial and false realities... we so very, very want to believe that they will really get sober for good.
You are on a path and you have to find your own way as each of us individually did... I wish I could encourage you in your hopes for his turnaround and maybe he will be one of the minority and make it.... but, the behaviors and stories you have shared indicate that he just isn't ready to do what it takes and that means he isn't done yet.
We all wish you the very best and hope you have a miracle but we are always skeptical because getting sober is HARD and it takes a lot of hard work, dedication and perseverance... they have to want it more than their next breath and fight for it! Whatever it takes!
Please keep us posted on the progress you see.... Keep learning all you can and remember the people you meet in alanon and here have a wealth of experience... eat the hay and spit out the straw! Someday you may discover that what you thought was straw was unvarnished truth... time tells all and just walk it out one day at a time!
I was in the same place you are now... completely smitten with the man I knew my A was destined to become! He had soooo much potential and I adored him sober. I spent 4 years hovering, helicoptering, running interference, cleaning up his disasters and succeeded in forcing him into recovery over and over again!
Problem was my "Mr. Wonderful" always relapsed... eventually. I began to call them "relapse vacations" because he always hit the wall and jumped back on the wagon and would get sober again when either a hospital bed or jail cell stopped the music.
Of course, that wasn't the case in his twenties as he was more of a functioning alcoholic but the disesase is progressive and he is battling liver issues, high blood pressure and just a few days ago broke his ankle in Vegas and is now gimping around to his drinking and gambling haunts on alcohol, benzos, opiate pain pills.
He was the shining star of recovery and I thought he would end up on the AA circuit with his incredible stories and his profound insight into the disease. Problem was he just wasn't done drinking and probably never will be... I think he will die in his disease.
I shared all of that because the odds are very, very bad in the case of severe alcoholics.... only a handful recover for life. The vast majority remain alcoholics although they can drift in and out of sobriety and as codies we join them in the denial and false realities... we so very, very want to believe that they will really get sober for good.
You are on a path and you have to find your own way as each of us individually did... I wish I could encourage you in your hopes for his turnaround and maybe he will be one of the minority and make it.... but, the behaviors and stories you have shared indicate that he just isn't ready to do what it takes and that means he isn't done yet.
We all wish you the very best and hope you have a miracle but we are always skeptical because getting sober is HARD and it takes a lot of hard work, dedication and perseverance... they have to want it more than their next breath and fight for it! Whatever it takes!
Please keep us posted on the progress you see.... Keep learning all you can and remember the people you meet in alanon and here have a wealth of experience... eat the hay and spit out the straw! Someday you may discover that what you thought was straw was unvarnished truth... time tells all and just walk it out one day at a time!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Originally Posted by MetallicThorn 
My last post only received three responses and even after some time has passed, no one else has added. When I first came and was dealing with turmoil, I received a healthy amount of responses. This of course, is all my experience and how I perceived other's around me.
1. I have no idea what the OP is looking for. Kind of along the same lines as Wicked pointed out: welcoming opinions, _but_....
2. I simply can't relate to what the OP is looking to discuss. When I left AXH, he was anything but a Mr. Hero.
My not responding wouldn't be anything personal; and I'd hazard a guess that's the way quite a few members are.
And, with a board as busy as this, new threads are started and ones that haven't gotten responses are no longer at the top of the page. If its a topic you really need help with, perhaps posting to it again and rephrasing what kind of help you're looking for will gather more responses...
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
MetallicThorn,
Your signature is "Understanding is the first fundamental block needed in order to gain Empathy."
I guess it is hard to empathize with you because I do not understand what you want here.
I do want to apologize for my previous post.
It was unnecessarily blunt and harsh.
I am sorry you are in love with the potential of an alcoholic,
because it was hell for me.
Like Hopeworks, I had visions of the two of us. (we went to rehab at nearly the same time, he came to the families sessions the last two weeks and was offered the next six weeks in patient.)
Visions of the two of us riding of into the sunset of recovery heaven!
I am sorry I called "Mr. Hero" ridiculous, it is no more ridiculous than my visions of recovery heaven.
Needless to say, that did not work out. He was drinking within 2 weeks of graduation from the program.
What are you looking for here.
Support for your visions?
Sorry, I do not think you will get much of that here, unless they are in that same starry eyed place you seem to be.
I cannot connect an accidental trip to Wonderland and Oz with your post.
When did the Wonderland and Oz happen?
No need to answer.
I am not sure I would get it anyway.
I hope you find recovery from whatever is holding you back from reality.
Reality is a good place, it has some bad moments,
but better to have bad moments, then none in reality at all.
For me anyway.
Beth
Your signature is "Understanding is the first fundamental block needed in order to gain Empathy."
I guess it is hard to empathize with you because I do not understand what you want here.
I do want to apologize for my previous post.
It was unnecessarily blunt and harsh.
I am sorry you are in love with the potential of an alcoholic,
because it was hell for me.
Like Hopeworks, I had visions of the two of us. (we went to rehab at nearly the same time, he came to the families sessions the last two weeks and was offered the next six weeks in patient.)
Visions of the two of us riding of into the sunset of recovery heaven!
I am sorry I called "Mr. Hero" ridiculous, it is no more ridiculous than my visions of recovery heaven.
Needless to say, that did not work out. He was drinking within 2 weeks of graduation from the program.
What are you looking for here.
Support for your visions?
Sorry, I do not think you will get much of that here, unless they are in that same starry eyed place you seem to be.
I cannot connect an accidental trip to Wonderland and Oz with your post.
When did the Wonderland and Oz happen?
No need to answer.
I am not sure I would get it anyway.
I hope you find recovery from whatever is holding you back from reality.
Reality is a good place, it has some bad moments,
but better to have bad moments, then none in reality at all.
For me anyway.
Beth
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 12
Being new to this I am going to say this just from what I have learned/observed so far. I don't think it is our job to tell you which particular path to take nor guilt you into the path we think you should take. I believe we are here to share our similar experiences in hopes that our own story will give you the hope/guidance/answers you are looking for. You have to look within yourself to find those answers and only you can decide that when you are ready and made peace within yourself.
Empathy is Revolutionary.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 34
Response 1
I have been combing over each and every response here. Perhaps, I haven't been as clear and concise like I thought.
I can understand how my post can come across as blinded and filled with a young woman's fanciful dreams. Inevitably, that's due to my inexperience with addiction of any kind and my strong belief in the resiliency of people.
In spite of this, I am an advocate for awareness and consciousness. I love Mr. Hero and I'm also in love with him, yet that doesn't deter me from the realities. It was stated, "This does not seem real to you yet, or you have not felt the pain yet."
If I compared my situation to most of you here, that statement would ring true and clear. My alcoholic, hasn't stolen money from me, hasn't hit me, hasn't threatened my life and hasn't abandoned me. No extreme measure of thing's has happened.
Most of the time thing's carry on, I talk about his foolish whims as though normal and half the time forget how serious his addiction is. ..Only when thing's start appearing to be on the up, like how he was two weeks sober for example. I shout it to the heaven's, praising him for his efforts, telling everyone how great he's doing all on his own. That's when he pull's the rug from under me, slaps me to the floor and makes me eat my words. Figuratively, of course.
Mr. Hero fell off the wagon a day ago and when I asked, "Why?" He, in all his drunken glee, laughed and said,"Because I'm an alcoholic." It was a clarifying moment for me. So, you see, my pain may not be as surreal as most people here but it is very real and I am keenly aware of it.
I understand that tough love generates real love and even those certain individuals who are commanding are advising out of love and a positive alignment. This is why, I welcome all opinions.
In term's of what I want while on SR. I want to be able to share my story openly and honestly, I want to gain knowledge from those who have experienced what I'm experiencing now and I want not to be judged from those who have gone through this because I already get judged from those who have not.
My greatest hope in writing this is to help clear up any misunderstandings about me and my intentions.
I am both humbled and honored by all of you for allowing me to honest.
I can understand how my post can come across as blinded and filled with a young woman's fanciful dreams. Inevitably, that's due to my inexperience with addiction of any kind and my strong belief in the resiliency of people.
In spite of this, I am an advocate for awareness and consciousness. I love Mr. Hero and I'm also in love with him, yet that doesn't deter me from the realities. It was stated, "This does not seem real to you yet, or you have not felt the pain yet."
If I compared my situation to most of you here, that statement would ring true and clear. My alcoholic, hasn't stolen money from me, hasn't hit me, hasn't threatened my life and hasn't abandoned me. No extreme measure of thing's has happened.
Most of the time thing's carry on, I talk about his foolish whims as though normal and half the time forget how serious his addiction is. ..Only when thing's start appearing to be on the up, like how he was two weeks sober for example. I shout it to the heaven's, praising him for his efforts, telling everyone how great he's doing all on his own. That's when he pull's the rug from under me, slaps me to the floor and makes me eat my words. Figuratively, of course.
Mr. Hero fell off the wagon a day ago and when I asked, "Why?" He, in all his drunken glee, laughed and said,"Because I'm an alcoholic." It was a clarifying moment for me. So, you see, my pain may not be as surreal as most people here but it is very real and I am keenly aware of it.
I understand that tough love generates real love and even those certain individuals who are commanding are advising out of love and a positive alignment. This is why, I welcome all opinions.
In term's of what I want while on SR. I want to be able to share my story openly and honestly, I want to gain knowledge from those who have experienced what I'm experiencing now and I want not to be judged from those who have gone through this because I already get judged from those who have not.
My greatest hope in writing this is to help clear up any misunderstandings about me and my intentions.
I am both humbled and honored by all of you for allowing me to honest.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 458
MetallicThorn- you sound to be doing well. Keep it up.
For me, none of this ever happened either. My emotional damage and hurt came from the constant betrayal of my trust (I.e. lying). And it is easy to sweep lies under the carpet, or excuse them just because they came from an alcoholic. If you can look objectively at your situation, and confirm that Mr. Hero doesn't ever lie to you about things, then you truly are better off than most here.
If I compared my situation to most of you here, that statement would ring true and clear. My alcoholic, hasn't stolen money from me, hasn't hit me, hasn't threatened my life and hasn't abandoned me. No extreme measure of thing's has happened.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
I'm at a point in my recovery where I have to base my life and my decisions on facts. Unfortunately, your posts are very short on facts. If you want to go for pages about mister wonderful and not hear anything negative about the fantasy, more power to you. But there's just not much to say about that.
That mister wonderful is relapsing and laughing at your pain, however, is short of heroic. Behaviors are facts. Potential, poetry, and bewilderment with the vastness of humanity are not facts. These are the kinda of things you tell yourself to avoid the heavy lifting of figuring out how you ended up in a dysfunctional relationship.
That mister wonderful is relapsing and laughing at your pain, however, is short of heroic. Behaviors are facts. Potential, poetry, and bewilderment with the vastness of humanity are not facts. These are the kinda of things you tell yourself to avoid the heavy lifting of figuring out how you ended up in a dysfunctional relationship.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
And it may sound mean, but this "Mr Hero" stuff is grating. The only way you can twist an alcoholic relationship which I assume is painful -- enough so that you're soliciting advice online -- into a fairy tale Prince Charming situation is with very dark humor and a deep sense of cynicism.
But this doesn't seem to be ironic. In which case I'm wondering what's going on with you that you romanticize pain so deeply and deny it so forcefully.
But this doesn't seem to be ironic. In which case I'm wondering what's going on with you that you romanticize pain so deeply and deny it so forcefully.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 453
MetallicThorn...My A, like yours, did not cause me some of the "tangible" issues other A's have caused their loved ones either...no physical abuse, no loss of financial stability, etc. My RAH was a "functional alcoholic", so I was really the only person (other than himself) negatively affected by his alcoholism. I do not believe this lessens the difficulties we have faced, but I am grateful for the suffering I have not been subjected to as I believe what I have faced is unacceptable enough. I have had to set some firm boundaries to stop being affected by it.
I encourage you to continue to try other Al-Anon meetings. I am in the same general area as you, and I know there are multiple meetings within 10 miles of my home every day. I have not faced any judgement in the meetings I have attended, other than my own (learning to let those go). One of the things I have learned at Al-Anon is how similar all our situations truly are; this is a disease with common signs & symptoms, we are simply in different phases of the disease. It is ongoing and progressive unless the A takes action.
It seems that you are still viewing the world through rose tinted glasses. I think many people here have worn them for a while or off and on at times. My RAH has quit at least seven times since this past November. He kept getting stuck around the two week mark. He seems to have passed that "hump" for now, but he did have to change his method of quitting. This time he started to go to AA, and is really trying to focus on his health. These are more positive developments, hence my willingness to now call him RAH. There is a long, hard road ahead of us and I don't know where it will go.
One more thing I'd like to share (take what you want, right?) is RAH & I attended a joint AA/Al-Anon Couples Communication meeting over the weekend. We are really struggling with this and thought it may be a positive way to come together that would operate withing the guidelines of our respective programs. At any rate, one of the more experienced RA's approached me after the meeting to remind me that my RAH must learn to communicate with himself again before he will be able to communicate with me, but encouraged me to be patient and work my program. As an aside, two of the couples consisted of an A that had 20+ years of sobriety.
I encourage you to continue to try other Al-Anon meetings. I am in the same general area as you, and I know there are multiple meetings within 10 miles of my home every day. I have not faced any judgement in the meetings I have attended, other than my own (learning to let those go). One of the things I have learned at Al-Anon is how similar all our situations truly are; this is a disease with common signs & symptoms, we are simply in different phases of the disease. It is ongoing and progressive unless the A takes action.
It seems that you are still viewing the world through rose tinted glasses. I think many people here have worn them for a while or off and on at times. My RAH has quit at least seven times since this past November. He kept getting stuck around the two week mark. He seems to have passed that "hump" for now, but he did have to change his method of quitting. This time he started to go to AA, and is really trying to focus on his health. These are more positive developments, hence my willingness to now call him RAH. There is a long, hard road ahead of us and I don't know where it will go.
One more thing I'd like to share (take what you want, right?) is RAH & I attended a joint AA/Al-Anon Couples Communication meeting over the weekend. We are really struggling with this and thought it may be a positive way to come together that would operate withing the guidelines of our respective programs. At any rate, one of the more experienced RA's approached me after the meeting to remind me that my RAH must learn to communicate with himself again before he will be able to communicate with me, but encouraged me to be patient and work my program. As an aside, two of the couples consisted of an A that had 20+ years of sobriety.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NE Wisconsin USA
Posts: 6,223
MetallicThorn
After reading through some of your past posts
I say that your boyfriend is no longer relapsing,
but actively binge drinking and nearing the chronic stage.
I say that from my own relapses/binge drinking.
What's going on with him has consumed you.
You have been in this relationship for three years now.
I am more concerned about you then anything you write
about him.
In Alanon...and I still have a hell of a lot to learn....
when in a relationship with an alky/addict/normie
I have very little insight concerning my identity.
When I wasn't in a relationship with an addict/alcoholic
I had no idea who I was.
Relationships with non-addicts never lasted because my needy behavior was unacceptable to them. Now this was when I was in recovery. I did not know physical nor mental boundaries, did not respect them.
In any relationship I liked what she liked, even acted like her, her friends became mine,
her taste of music mine, tv shows mine, let her pick out my clothes.
A concern of mine for you Metallica is if you love him, accept him, thinks he's honest and respectful, completes you, then what are the problem(s)? It shouldn't matter if he is drinking or not, an alcoholic or not.
No matter his actions you can feel and think independently. We learn "not to react."
The reality is he's abusive and controlling; and has always from the very beginning of you two meeting. You are accepting, at least tolerating, unacceptable behavior.
Time to move on.
Your bio. clock is ticking lady.
Keep up with the Alanon meetings,
and those old blue-haired ladies
who bite your head off.
Empathy we all have. I understand you. You
made yourself clear. There are no misunderstandings.
Even if there was...so what?
The bottom line? I could be wrong about this whole thing!
But that's recovery trial and error...sometimes getting it right....
freely living in the day with hopes for another day,
knowing we'll screw that one up too if we go at it alone!
Peace always!
After reading through some of your past posts
I say that your boyfriend is no longer relapsing,
but actively binge drinking and nearing the chronic stage.
I say that from my own relapses/binge drinking.
What's going on with him has consumed you.
You have been in this relationship for three years now.
I am more concerned about you then anything you write
about him.
In Alanon...and I still have a hell of a lot to learn....
when in a relationship with an alky/addict/normie
I have very little insight concerning my identity.
When I wasn't in a relationship with an addict/alcoholic
I had no idea who I was.
Relationships with non-addicts never lasted because my needy behavior was unacceptable to them. Now this was when I was in recovery. I did not know physical nor mental boundaries, did not respect them.
In any relationship I liked what she liked, even acted like her, her friends became mine,
her taste of music mine, tv shows mine, let her pick out my clothes.
A concern of mine for you Metallica is if you love him, accept him, thinks he's honest and respectful, completes you, then what are the problem(s)? It shouldn't matter if he is drinking or not, an alcoholic or not.
No matter his actions you can feel and think independently. We learn "not to react."
The reality is he's abusive and controlling; and has always from the very beginning of you two meeting. You are accepting, at least tolerating, unacceptable behavior.
Time to move on.
Your bio. clock is ticking lady.
Keep up with the Alanon meetings,
and those old blue-haired ladies
who bite your head off.
Empathy we all have. I understand you. You
made yourself clear. There are no misunderstandings.
Even if there was...so what?
The bottom line? I could be wrong about this whole thing!
But that's recovery trial and error...sometimes getting it right....
freely living in the day with hopes for another day,
knowing we'll screw that one up too if we go at it alone!
Peace always!
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 137
Dear Metallic Thorn,
I rarely post now but your thread haunts me- I have no advice but can tell you some of my ESH.
My RAH is one of the most truthful people I have ever met, yet Honesty was always twisted when it came to his drinking. I married him at 25-knowing and accepting he was an alcoholic- but that was the only behaviour I knew, having grown up with an alcoholic mother and father.
As his alcoholism progressed during the next 25 years, his version of honesty changed- he was still truthful, respectful, kind and generous to everyone except me. I was his enabler- I bailed him out of financial difficulties, I never directly questioned him on his drinking, his family was his bedrock as his problems grew. When in recovery, he admitted treating us badly because he thought he could, we were family not the outside world. It took me 25 years to wake up to the fact that the alcoholic in him believed that he had that right- that the alcoholic mind is lie a predator, it takes no prisoner in its desire to drink.
I was attracted to my RAH because I was codependent, I needed an hopeless case to care for- I was going to save him( even though I had failed with my parents and brother, who had died from brain injuries whilst falling drunk)- I was going to beat this disease. I didn't save him, I put myself through torment for years- NO ONE can help an alcoholic but themselves, and only when they want to- there are many wonderful people on this forum who are double winners who say this.
My husband doesn't see himself as I do - but then his view of me is not the same as mine. It took me going to Al Anon for a year to learn that this is normal- how can I expect him to live up to the fairy tale image of how I believe his potential to be. My husband is an alcoholic, in recovery for a year now, but his struggle with his disease will be ongoing for life.
He has been my partner in life for 28 years, father of my children, we still live together- it gets easier but not perfect - but still I wish at 24 that I had not been in denial and walked away
God bless, love and light.
I rarely post now but your thread haunts me- I have no advice but can tell you some of my ESH.
My RAH is one of the most truthful people I have ever met, yet Honesty was always twisted when it came to his drinking. I married him at 25-knowing and accepting he was an alcoholic- but that was the only behaviour I knew, having grown up with an alcoholic mother and father.
As his alcoholism progressed during the next 25 years, his version of honesty changed- he was still truthful, respectful, kind and generous to everyone except me. I was his enabler- I bailed him out of financial difficulties, I never directly questioned him on his drinking, his family was his bedrock as his problems grew. When in recovery, he admitted treating us badly because he thought he could, we were family not the outside world. It took me 25 years to wake up to the fact that the alcoholic in him believed that he had that right- that the alcoholic mind is lie a predator, it takes no prisoner in its desire to drink.
I was attracted to my RAH because I was codependent, I needed an hopeless case to care for- I was going to save him( even though I had failed with my parents and brother, who had died from brain injuries whilst falling drunk)- I was going to beat this disease. I didn't save him, I put myself through torment for years- NO ONE can help an alcoholic but themselves, and only when they want to- there are many wonderful people on this forum who are double winners who say this.
My husband doesn't see himself as I do - but then his view of me is not the same as mine. It took me going to Al Anon for a year to learn that this is normal- how can I expect him to live up to the fairy tale image of how I believe his potential to be. My husband is an alcoholic, in recovery for a year now, but his struggle with his disease will be ongoing for life.
He has been my partner in life for 28 years, father of my children, we still live together- it gets easier but not perfect - but still I wish at 24 that I had not been in denial and walked away
God bless, love and light.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Dear Metallic Thorn,
I hope you are taking my advice and not allowing yourself to get overwhelmed by the pain and confusion of trying to sort out the complex and baffling disease of alcoholism. Please make sure that you take care of you each day ... make time to block out what often becomes a desperate obsession to somehow alter the universe and "make the miracle" happen. Bubble baths, long walks, hobbies, friends ... something that is not alcoholic related everyday will help enormously.
Time is our friend. As the days roll by and we reflect on our situations with more insight and knowledge we begin to find our way out (or peace if it is decided to stay in).
There are no right and wrongs... it is your path. In AA there is a book called "A New Pair of Glasses" and that is what happens... we get a new perspective. We become wiser and become to understand ourselves better.
We are not supposed to give advice... just share our E,S and H. But the best thing I ever did for my poor unhappy, confused self back in the alcoholic relationship days was to take the spotlight off the A and put it where it belongs... on me and why I choose men who are that need rescuing. Plenty of strong, smart, successful and emotionally healthy men were available to me but I found them boring... total yawners.
While my A was a broken person that I wanted to fix I found that I was simply shattered into shards and like a crazy mirror puzzle the broken, addicted personality fit perfectly. Years of therapy, alanon, lots and lots of reading of everything under the sun dealing with codependency and alcoholism and a lot of hard scrabbled tough talking here on SR (I love my SR sisters who I used to think were so MEAN! lol)
My brokenness and "broke picker" of men came from my FOO which was beyond insane and the "3 act play" with plenty of drama and even danger from a very abusive alcoholic father.
We are all at least broken a little... some of us are more broken than others. But WE ALL can put ourselves back together again!
And... that is my hope for you. That you will look on your relationship with your own A and in time... you will get a "new pair of glasses". Maybe not my pair or anyone elses... your own pair of glasses. The unraveling of myself and the working of the 12 steps changed my life forever...for the better!
You are in the first act of your play. The early days. The intense hoping, longing, praying and believing that the miracle will happen and you and your "hero" will live happily ever after.
It could happen. It's not likely but it could. It might not happen. But through it all it might be the best thing you ever experienced because you will grow through the experience and a new pair of glasses will help you spot those "red flags" a mile away next time!
So... take a deep breath and go do something fun.
And if you haven't done so yet you might want to think about reading the stickies ... here is one of the many great ones... the three act play. You are in it somewhere as we all were at one time or are still acting out our parts!
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...cters-1-a.html
I hope you are taking my advice and not allowing yourself to get overwhelmed by the pain and confusion of trying to sort out the complex and baffling disease of alcoholism. Please make sure that you take care of you each day ... make time to block out what often becomes a desperate obsession to somehow alter the universe and "make the miracle" happen. Bubble baths, long walks, hobbies, friends ... something that is not alcoholic related everyday will help enormously.
Time is our friend. As the days roll by and we reflect on our situations with more insight and knowledge we begin to find our way out (or peace if it is decided to stay in).
There are no right and wrongs... it is your path. In AA there is a book called "A New Pair of Glasses" and that is what happens... we get a new perspective. We become wiser and become to understand ourselves better.
We are not supposed to give advice... just share our E,S and H. But the best thing I ever did for my poor unhappy, confused self back in the alcoholic relationship days was to take the spotlight off the A and put it where it belongs... on me and why I choose men who are that need rescuing. Plenty of strong, smart, successful and emotionally healthy men were available to me but I found them boring... total yawners.
While my A was a broken person that I wanted to fix I found that I was simply shattered into shards and like a crazy mirror puzzle the broken, addicted personality fit perfectly. Years of therapy, alanon, lots and lots of reading of everything under the sun dealing with codependency and alcoholism and a lot of hard scrabbled tough talking here on SR (I love my SR sisters who I used to think were so MEAN! lol)
My brokenness and "broke picker" of men came from my FOO which was beyond insane and the "3 act play" with plenty of drama and even danger from a very abusive alcoholic father.
We are all at least broken a little... some of us are more broken than others. But WE ALL can put ourselves back together again!
And... that is my hope for you. That you will look on your relationship with your own A and in time... you will get a "new pair of glasses". Maybe not my pair or anyone elses... your own pair of glasses. The unraveling of myself and the working of the 12 steps changed my life forever...for the better!
You are in the first act of your play. The early days. The intense hoping, longing, praying and believing that the miracle will happen and you and your "hero" will live happily ever after.
It could happen. It's not likely but it could. It might not happen. But through it all it might be the best thing you ever experienced because you will grow through the experience and a new pair of glasses will help you spot those "red flags" a mile away next time!
So... take a deep breath and go do something fun.
And if you haven't done so yet you might want to think about reading the stickies ... here is one of the many great ones... the three act play. You are in it somewhere as we all were at one time or are still acting out our parts!
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...cters-1-a.html
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
If I compared my situation to most of you here, that statement would ring true and clear. My alcoholic, hasn't stolen money from me, hasn't hit me, hasn't threatened my life and hasn't abandoned me. No extreme measure of thing's has happened.
As knowledgeable as you seem to sound I do not believe that you have GRASPED that ALCOHOLISM IS PROGRESSIVE. Meaning it does not get better it gets WORSE.
Until and if your ABF decides FOR HIMSELF that he NEEDS help he will just continue to do his 'binge drinking' and the binges will get closer together until there is no respite.
When the hell of drinking finally gets him to his bottom and he decides to find recovery, a new hell begins. The early months and years of recovery are, at least for me and those I know, much different and in some ways much worse then it was all those years I drank.
Yes, I am a sober and clean alcoholic/addict for many years now, and Yes, I am also a long time member of Alanon. I have in been in both of your shoes and neither one is a comfortable place to be.
You say you want to know how you can HELP him? Well YOU CANNOT. This is his trip and his trip alone. Any 'help' you think you can or are giving him will turn into 'enabling'.
You say you are in love with him and just know the person he can be. Well...................what if this is as good as it gets? What if what you see is actually what he is? He is telling you who he is .............................. BELIEVE HIM. Can you ACCEPT him just as he is? With all the 'ups and downs' and the good and bad. Oh and BTW as this progresses:
He's a logical person and therefore doesn't see all those emotional bombs he throws at me most times.
Oh and something else about those 'emotional bombs' they get worse, they get more hurtful, and eventually with many if not most alkies will become physical. First hitting the walls and putting holes in them and then one day it will be your face or your body, UNLESS he FINDS recovery for himself!
Your posts have been about HIM not much about you. In your words I hear you JUSTIFYING and making EXCUSES for his behaviors and actions toward you.
You see Alanon is about and for YOU. It is a way, through 12 steps that you can fix yourself for whatever needs fixing and for you to figure out why you are attracted to those that 'need your help', etc And those 12 steps once 'worked' and then lived on a daily basis will open up a world for you, you have never even dreamed of!
You are at a 'stage' where many of us once were. And yep many of 'stuck it out' until the pain (mental and/or physical) became so great that we finally did something for ourselves.
The shares that you read on this forum are THE TRUTH of our own experiences, the PAIN, the CONFUSION, the INDECISION, we have all been there. What I and I believe others are reading in your posts are bringing up flashbacks to when we too still believed that there was still lots of hope.
I can tell you this, that even though I have many many years of sobriety and work with (sponsor) not only alcoholics but members in Alanon, not many alcoholics make if forever. Yes, I am an exception as are some others. Yes I have friends that have as long as I do or more (many times called 'Old Timers' in AA) but there are so many many more that cannot seem to 'grasp' the concepts of sobriety and do relapse, some quickly some later and be that 'later' be 2, 5, 7, 10, 15, 20 etc years down the road ....................... do you honestly want to live your life 'waiting for the shoe to drop again'? Because it will be there, always, in the back of your mind.
That is why at any AA Convention or Roundup you will see lots of AAs in their 1, 2, 5, 7, 10 years, then the number decrease at 15, gets smaller at 20, even smaller at 25, even less at 30, and very few at 35 or 40 and on. It just is. Relapse is NOT part of recovery, RELAPSE IS PART OF ADDICTION. There is a saying you will read around here:
"Past behaviors are predictors of future behavior."
Because with many A's they just cannot grasp and maintain sobriety. And because I see this time and time again, I personally have become EXTREMELY GRATEFUL for my own sobriety, and I try not to let myself forget that WITHOUT MY SOBRIETY I AM NOTHING! I have to COME FIRST with me. I have to TAKE CARE OF ME first, for the rest of my life. And yes, even in sobriety that can play hell with a relationship!!
Yes, I have seen some successful relationships, but I will be honest, not very many. I am seeing more and more men in Alanon, maybe because today there is more awareness (thanks to media and the internet) about addiction/alcoholism and they too suffer the same pains, remorse, emotional hurt, as we women do because they are living with, love, married to an A.
Stick around, read, and post your fears your hopes, feel free to rant, rave, scream, cry and yes even laugh. We will not throw poison darts or burning arrows. We WILL tell you the truth from our own experiences and yes there will be times when you will stamp your feet or stick your heels in like a mule and say "NOT ME." We/I sometimes are not quite ready to hear the real reality, but in time we are.
Just know that we are now walking with you in spirit on whatever road you choose to take. We DO UNDERSTAND even though you may not think so.
Love and hugs,
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