Double Winners: Clean and sober with an active loved one.

Old 06-19-2013, 04:35 PM
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Double Winners: Clean and sober with an active loved one.

Hello,

I would like to start a thread for those of us who are in recovery and are faced with the challenges of remaining clean and sober while dealing with our codependency.
We can become and stay clean and sober and find contentment whether our loved ones are still drinking/using or not.
I hope that other double winners will introduce themselves and share their experience, strengths and hope when it comes to their alcoholism, drug use and relationship with their still addicted loved ones.
This thread is for ALL double winners no matter what is our drug of choice or method of recovery so please, no bickering over which recovery system is better or spirituality/religion...we are all in the same boat
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:32 PM
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Hi Carlotta... Great idea starting this thread. The way the forums are structured it can give the false impression that there is some sort of Chinese Wall between Friends and Family posters and those on the other side. There is in fact a lot of cross over and knowing this I believe can be of great help. My own personal story that builds up to this is as follows (I'll try to give a condensed version). I dried out for over a year while my GF continued to drink. Early on I posted mostly on the Alcohol/Addiction threads. Without consciously realizing it I was increasingly posting in Friends and Family threads as they related to the experiences that I was going through. The one thing I will say if you are in the thick of getting in some quality sober time, make that your priority as dealing with other Issues can cause unnecessary stress. Just know that this stuff is fixable and It helps greatly to understand both sides of the coin. Many of us are both sides of the coin as well.
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:40 PM
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Hi Carlotta!
Wow! Serendipity!
I just not twenty minutes ago picked up a book on codependence that I planned on reading tonight and looked up an online al-anon meeting to attend later this evening.
And now your post......the universe is trying to tell me something.

I am an alcoholic, eight years sober. My off and on boyfriend has started drinking again and I am trying to figure out what I am going to do for myself about this.

Thank you for the thread!
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:59 PM
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There are many of us on this site, and some of us are even 'triple' winners being also adult children of alcoholics/addicts.

Love and hugs,
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:07 PM
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I am a double winner: in recovery for both alcoholism and codependency.
I grew up with and alcoholic father and a mother who was addicted to pills. I was the eldest and learned early on that it was my duty to be the responsible child. I was a latchkey kid and my duties included picking up my little sister at school, going home, making sure the house was clean and dinner getting ready. I idolized my dad and did not get along with my mom. Unlike my mother, my father was not physically abusive but he had a cutting tongue. I learned from an early age to be over responsible and to be a people pleaser.
I started drinking in my 30s and in 2001, after getting very physically sick I went rehab in March and found recovery. I met a man in rehab and despite what I was told, got into a rehab romance. We moved in together. At first, all was peachy then 9/11 happened. He was at our place in NJ while I was stuck in the City. When I finally came home, he had relapsed so here we are the Friday of that terrible week, me just a few months sober, half carrying half dragging a drunken guy to detox downtown by ground zero. The revolving door of him getting sober and relapsing and going in and out of detox/treatment had started and I was a willing participant to that madness. He was a textbook alkie, violent, selfish and inconsiderate and I was an out of control control freak.
I felt weird sharing my home life struggles at my AA meeting. I was obsessing about someone else's drinking, I call it “getting drunk by proxy”. Here I was sharing in front of these guys what their wives had been through. Finally, one of the old timer's wive (who was not an alcoholic) called me and told me to go with her to Al Anon. I told her I did not belong there because I was an alcoholic but she told me:”oh yes, you do”.
In Al Anon, I learned to set boundaries and detach with love. I still felt weird sometimes when I wanted to share that his drinking in front of me was making me crave alcohol. Fortunately, I found a Saturday double winner meeting and finally found a safe place to share. As I was learning to detach and set boundaries, he became increasingly violent tried to strangle me a few times, hacked my furniture with a machete and finally punched me. This is when I called the cops and got rid of him permanently.
Fast forward, my sponsor passed away, I moved to the West Coast in 2006 with no support system, lost everything, became homeless and relapsed. My alcoholism did not kick back where it was at (my last hard liquor drink >rum< was on 3/19/2001) and I could go days not drinking and I was able to straighten out my life, get a home, a new career and friends who had no idea I was an alcoholic.
I became involved with an active alcoholic and broke up with him because of his drinking. Even though I had relapsed, I was still practicing the Al Anon program to the best of my abilities under the circumstances. To these days we remain best friends and he still is active. I also started working with homeless people and became a community organizer (speak of a codie job LOL).
I started a relationship with a friend and coworker which ended up disastrously a year and a half ago at Christmas time. My depression got really bad and during the last holiday season, I went on a 3 weeks alcohol binge. I could not stop drinking and got very scared. I knew that sooner or later, the cat would be let out of the bag, people would find out about my alcoholism and I would lose everything (I was a closet drinker this time around). Drinking alone and isolating I realized I had two choices: Getting sober again or committing suicide.
So here I am, back in recovery with 5 months sober. I have no desire to drink but am still struggling with codependency. I work a codie job and my best friend (mentioned above) is an active alcoholic. I try more or less successfully not to enable him. It's tough some days, him and I have been through hell and back together and he has had my back many times.
There are no double winners meetings in my area but I have a supportive home group where I can share my burning codie issues. As I was writing this (I am at my friend's where I keep a small office), he is sober (he is a binge drinker) but pissed off (not at me) and I can feel his anger.
Alcoholics tend to be oversensitive and get wounded/offended easily and codependents are way too empathetic for their own good. Recovery for me is finding a healthy balance where I feel content.
I started my recovery journey in 2001 feeling like a double loser but today, I know I am a double winner and as long as I take care of myself, things will eventually fall into place.
I can remain sober and find contentment whether those I love are still drinking or not.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:24 AM
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Great idea! I thought my problem was just alcohol until my 11th year of recovery when I entered the worst relationship of my life. He was a dry drunk, abusive, insulting, crazy. He made me miserable. I stayed for three years, until finally seeing that my pain is my fault. I picked him and I stayed. Alanon saved my life and my sanity. In my 22nd year of sobriety I can't be around an active alcoholic because eventually I'll drink. But a screwed up dry alcoholic was terrible too.

I know a number of people who came into AA by way of Alanon. Once I heard a guy say "I'm in so many 12 Step programs I'm surprised I only have two parents" Yea, no kidding.

An addict is an addict. My drug of choice is alcohol but I can use a disturbed person, food, money, whatever. It's the nature of the disease. You just keep working on yourself to keep a lid on things.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:49 AM
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Thank you Carlotta for starting this thread.

I came into AA in 1978 after three treatment centers, two detoxes and a half-way house; I was 13 years old. My welcome wasn't universal but it was a good mix - many believed that there was no way I could be an alcoholic at such a young age but there were many who accepted me and welcomed me. The former group were sufficient for me to stay sober on a resentment and I did so for seven years.

It is said that our sobriety is contingent upon the maintenance of a spiritual program. Though not intended as an excuse, there is some difficulty maintaining a spiritual program when you are killing people. By twenty years old I had been a combat veteran for three years and I sought an escape and relapsed. During the next seven years, I didn't draw a sober breath. I found crack immediately and within a week was smoking an ounce a day.

Seven years into my relapse my addict wife was in prison for life without the possibility of parole, I was facing seventy years myself and I was dying. Without hope that the program could offer me anything in the way of help but lost with no options, I went to an NA meeting. A few days later I decided I would get clean and sober or die. I did both. During detox I was pronounced dead after my heart stopped and stayed stopped for six minutes. Then I wasn't. I was mostly dead with a pulse, brain damage, nerve damage...they are still with me today. That was twenty-one years ago. I am still clean and sober.

My wife's conviction was overturned to life with the possibility of parole and she was released 19 months ago after serving twenty-four years in prison. About four or five months ago she relapsed. After getting caught by her parole officer and facing life without, we won another chance and she served only twenty days. Three days later she relapsed again. That relapse terrified her as she knew without a shadow of a doubt that she would never use again after her twenty days in jail...

She went to treatment for twenty-eight days and today has seventy days clean. She's been going to NA meetings every day - usually two or three a day, is doing step work diligently with her sponsor and has gotten very active in service work - even last night baking cookies for the first time to take them to a meeting. They were good cookies.

I've been going to Nar-Anon from the moment I learned of her first relapse and am really enjoying it. Anywho - just a quickie introduction and I look forward to visiting this thread often.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:08 AM
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God bless you both. We can stay sober one day at a time, we only have today. Just keep on keeping on and there will be lots of terrific cookies.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:04 PM
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Hi there...Congrats to you on remaining sober...My ex-bf recently got out of treatment. I stood by him before (those times were horrible), during and after. He's a differnet person for the better, but are relationship was struggling and he broke it off. The fact that I sometimes go out and drink (very rare) bothers him to the point where he can't do it anymore. I've changed so many things about myself so our lives together could be great. I've lost him. He wants to remain friends but it's too hard for me.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:24 PM
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My Readers Digest double winner:
I was sober over three years when I met someone. He was sober 4 months. After a year and a half or so he wanted to move in together, I did not. We broke up. Remained friends for the next year and then started casually, yet exclusively dating last year. He told me he was drinking beer again, I told him probably not wise, but not my life. Please do not drink around me. He usually comes over on Friday after work and then leaves on Sunday morning. We usually talk on the phone daily. I have no idea how much he drinks during the week. It often sounds like he has been drinking when we talk on the phone during the week, but I have no proof.
I am sure he thinks he is no longer an alcoholic and can drink beer like a normal person…..perhaps he can, but I doubt it. Although, it seems he has been doing it for over a year now.
Since I am not interested in marriage or co-habitation, this seems to be working for me for now. Nothing about it threatens my sobriety so we’ll just see how it goes.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:47 PM
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Of all the things I learned in recovery, one of the most important for me as a double winner is: "First put the oxygen mask on yourself."
I need to focus first and foremost on my sobriety. I cannot afford to let my codependency divert me from working on my personal recovery from alcoholism.
While I might lapse sometimes applying the Al Anon principles to my relationships, I cannot afford to slip when it comes to drinking.
Keeping this in mind, the most important boundary I have with my best friend is that I will not hang out with him when he is drinking. I have no desire to drink but the emotions I sometimes feel seeing him out of his mind, in a blackout or just plain acting stupid are a potential trigger for my alcoholism.
I have sometimes dropped by briefly when he was in a black out binge but I remove myself from the situation asap.
Oxygen mask on first: I am an alcoholic and my codependency could lead me to a relapse.
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:03 PM
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I was reading a newcomer's post and it got me thinking:
For Double Winners, recovery is like a toothbrush: his is his, hers is hers and kissing feels much better if both parties are brushing their teeth.
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Carlotta View Post
I was reading a newcomer's post and it got me thinking:
For Double Winners, recovery is like a toothbrush: his is his, hers is hers and kissing feels much better if both parties are brushing their teeth.
Good one thanks for the laugh...

Excellent idea for thread Carlotta

will read later....maybe even listen
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:48 PM
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Yes, mental hygiene before dental hygiene.

And don't forget to floss.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:16 PM
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Legna Thank you for your story....I don't read about too many or know members of Naranon.

Yet I have no hesitation suggesting Naranon

I should attend a meeting just to get some knowledge of it.

I am a double winner with AA/Alanon, in the past I spent many years in NA
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quintuple Winner Here!

This is the thread I need.
I just a few minutes posted an introduction on the newbie forum.
I am a recovering alcoholic who is the child of unacknowledged alcoholic parents, both dead of natural causes. I had my last drunk on 10.25.11. I have a daughter who is seven years in recovery from heroin addiction. My son is normal.
The three of us staged an intervention for my wife of 35 years 10 days ago. My wife and I were daily drinkers for our entire relationship and were both high bottom drunks. I just stopped before her.
The intervention was difficult. My wife was in denial and extremely resentful and angry. But she agreed to rehab. The first week was detox and pretty uneventful. She was loaded on Librium just going along...Then she was transferred to rehab and SOBER kicked in. It has not been pretty. Denial. Anger. Resentment. Fear. Yikes. Her phone calls to me, (she's allowed one ten minute call Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday,) have been sullen, cold and controlled. She did not want to be there.
I've been worried about her call coming today and full of what if's. What if she wants to leave? What if she is still in denial? etc. Well, she used her Sunday ten minute call to contact my daughter who just called me. And my wife has had her moment of clarity. I don't know the details, but she's no longer angry at everyone for the intervention and minimizing her drinking and behavior. She wants to stay in rehab and do the work!
I couldn't be more thrilled! I know there is a boatload of work ahead, but the denial has been punctured. There has never been a more honest moment in our marriage. The potential now for recovery and growth is immense.
I am just full of gratitude.
More to come...
Jeff
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:20 PM
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Welcome to the double winner thread Jeff.
If you guys had in intervention, I guess that you set some boundaries and the consequences for her not getting into recovery. It is really important that you stick to your boundaries right now. For example if what you said was we will not live together unless you go to treatment, then even though it will be heartbreaking for you, refuse to let her back in if she leaves treatment early. Being wishy washy would not be doing her a favor in the long run and she would know she can manipulate you and pull on on you and that your bark is louder than your bite.
I completely hear you about the "what ifs", I used to suffer from them all the time and have become much better over the years at not projecting.
The key for me is when the what ifs start popping up and cluttering my brain, the next thing on the menu is for that horrible gut wrenching fear and then the anxiety to settle in.
What has really helped me a lot is to stay in the moment and every time I would start on a possible scenario, address myself and say that nothing has happened yet and nothing might happen and I am getting myself all worked up on a future I know nothing about.
Then breathing deeply in an out and become very aware of where I am NOW. What is the present? I am at home, I am sitting in my chair, I am at my computer. All is good right now and this is all what I need to worry about.
It takes a little practice to do that but it does work and soon enough it will become a second nature.
If you got sober using AA, I would also suggest going to Al Anon. As a double winner, you are now on the other side of the coin but for us double winners, codependency can trigger our own addictions or to quote an AA friend of mine:"Carlotta, your codependency will kill you".
If you are following a secular method, I heard SMART recovery has family groups too.
Anyway welcome. You are NOT alone
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:41 PM
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Thanks Carlotta. I'm going to an AlAnon meeting this evening.
And I know all about that fear, anxiety and paralysis. I liked your concrete way to stay in the moment. BeHereNow.
I've never used on line as a source for support before. This could be good....
Jeff
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:47 PM
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Let us know how you liked Al Anon. It saved my sanity and I hope it helps you as much as it helped me
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:06 PM
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Hi everyone! I think I'm a double winner, too! I love the term (it makes me feel so special ).

I've been an active, high functioning alcoholic since my early 20's (I'm 34 now). I met my husband on a camping trip and we hit it off because he had beer. Ha!
Our entire relationship--for 10 years now-- has been based on two things, alcohol and abuse. I've been wanting to get out for so long, but the harder I try to leave the more difficult it seems. It's like I've been trapped in one of those Chinese finger trap things where the more you try to pull out the more stuck you are.

I couldn't understand why I couldn't just leave. Or why HE wouldn't just leave. Neither of us are happy. But now that I know the term Double Winner it makes so much sense!!!

I did not consider us alcoholics. We are just people who like to drink. Alot. Neither of us have the sad alcoholic story. He's successful in his business and I'm a mom of two and a straight-A grad student. Neither of us have DUI's or jail time or any real major consequences of our drinking. But, finally, I couldn't deny that my drinking was becoming a major, major issue in my life. I am now in AA.

Since getting sober, it's startling to notice how much my husband actually drinks. Today, for instance, it is early afternoon and he's already 4 drinks in. There are probably 10 more hours left of drinking! Yesterday, I did count his drinks because I am super curious. He drank 2 or three vodka drinks, two glasses of red wine at dinner and then half a box of red wine at home (I think the boxes contain 2 bottles or a little more?)

He doesn't get visibly drunk, usually. He is a super-large man so he may be able to process larger amounts of alcohol better than most people. But he is a major grump, very impatient, super angry. He yells, belittles, insults, talks mostly in sarcasm, peppers 50 percent of his interactions with me or our kids with eye rolls. Now that I am sober, it is so clear to see how this behavior is addiction-related. I could never piece it together because of how much I've been drinking. All he really wants to do is to sit and watch tv and drink.

Every day I ask myself why I'm still here...

Oh, I guess it's because maybe I'm codependent too... or I'm projecting. I still don't know.
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