Anyone else's A think AlAnon is a cult?
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 137
My RAH doesn't think it's a cult- but he isn't always ecstatic that I go to meetings! Like others said- Al Anon has helped me change my behaviour in the past year and the support I have received is fantastic. He goes to AA, and doesn't seem to have the same support system- and I think the level of support I get unnerves him-
BUT I go for me, I go because I want to change- and he knows that I will continue going whether he likes it or not- and that I meet my sponsor for a couple of hours every week, and other members too. He might think its cultish, but he's enjoying the calmer state in the house!
Yes, even though I am Christian, I am uncomfortable about the emphasis on a spiritual programme not religious- there are enough Christian undertones to dismiss this claim. I learnt to replace the word God with Fred in my readings, and to let my misgivings go. I attend three meetings, only one says the Lord's Prayer at the end of the meeting, I just remain silent- no issue. Why uncomfortable- for an honest programme it seems a bit off to use the main Christian prayer in a non religious programme.
BUT I go for me, I go because I want to change- and he knows that I will continue going whether he likes it or not- and that I meet my sponsor for a couple of hours every week, and other members too. He might think its cultish, but he's enjoying the calmer state in the house!
Yes, even though I am Christian, I am uncomfortable about the emphasis on a spiritual programme not religious- there are enough Christian undertones to dismiss this claim. I learnt to replace the word God with Fred in my readings, and to let my misgivings go. I attend three meetings, only one says the Lord's Prayer at the end of the meeting, I just remain silent- no issue. Why uncomfortable- for an honest programme it seems a bit off to use the main Christian prayer in a non religious programme.
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Lots of A,s think Alanon is a cult.
B][/B]
Lots of A,s think Alanon is a cult.
B][/B]
Originally Posted by Wavy 
ABF is very worried about me. He thinks I may have joined a cult :rotfxko Apparently I have been acting very much like I've been brainwashed lately. He says AlAnon has all the aspects of a cult and that it can't be good for me. Any thing I say in reply is met with "well that's what a cult WOULD say, they are not going to be open about being a cult!" 
I said I was interested in finding a sponsor and that set him off even further - "that's how they make sure you can never leave!"
I know that it doesn't really matter what he thinks. If he wants to think its a cult then that's up to him. Its just so draining! And the wishful thinking me feels let down that he's not more supportive of me trying to do something to help myself feel better.
Anyone else's A have the same attitude towards it? Did they ever change their mind? Anyone here think the AlAnon is a cult? (Don't worry we won't shoot, I'm genuinely interested!)
I said I was interested in finding a sponsor and that set him off even further - "that's how they make sure you can never leave!"
I know that it doesn't really matter what he thinks. If he wants to think its a cult then that's up to him. Its just so draining! And the wishful thinking me feels let down that he's not more supportive of me trying to do something to help myself feel better.
Anyone else's A have the same attitude towards it? Did they ever change their mind? Anyone here think the AlAnon is a cult? (Don't worry we won't shoot, I'm genuinely interested!)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 257
Thank you all for sharing your take on it, I've actually got a great deal from what everyone has said, although I wasn't really expecting this to be a topic that would lead to that. So 
I think only in the past few days have I really understood the difference between spiritual and religious. I'm atheist and uncomfortable with the idea of God, but can increasingly grasp the idea of a non-superstitious higher power. I think it can come across as thinly veiled christianity, but that is not surprising given that many of the people that founded and shaped the program where christians. Its up to us to apply the program in our own way that is best for us and I don't find the use of the word god a barrier to that. Yes take what you like and leave the rest - what kind of cult says that?!
There is no danger of me stopping going because of his disapproval, its been too good to me already to stop, its just yet another bone of contention to deal with, like we need more!
I think only in the past few days have I really understood the difference between spiritual and religious. I'm atheist and uncomfortable with the idea of God, but can increasingly grasp the idea of a non-superstitious higher power. I think it can come across as thinly veiled christianity, but that is not surprising given that many of the people that founded and shaped the program where christians. Its up to us to apply the program in our own way that is best for us and I don't find the use of the word god a barrier to that. Yes take what you like and leave the rest - what kind of cult says that?!
There is no danger of me stopping going because of his disapproval, its been too good to me already to stop, its just yet another bone of contention to deal with, like we need more!
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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One other thing, there are a few nutcases on the the Internet that heavily promote the idea that AA is a cult. It's a perfect excuse and justification for the alcoholic who wants nothing to do with AA to avoid even investigating it. No doubt there are some people whose personal experience is such that AA is not helpful to them. But a lot of them are people who are simply negative about it without knowing a thing about it, other than what they have heard/read. But for someone who wants to keep drinking--yeah, great excuse--it's a cult!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,796
Originally Posted by Wavy
He says AlAnon has all the aspects of a cult and that it can't be good for me. Any thing I say in reply is met with "well that's what a cult WOULD say, they are not going to be open about being a cult!"
I said I was interested in finding a sponsor and that set him off even further - "that's how they make sure you can never leave!"
I said I was interested in finding a sponsor and that set him off even further - "that's how they make sure you can never leave!"
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Since I have been a member of this forum, I have read about many friends and family members who began in Al-Anon only to be accused of becoming 'indoctrinated' into a cult by the alcoholics in their lives. It is a familiar refrain, I'm afraid.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 478
I think at some meetings there are more religious people in attendance (religious oldtimers) and their shares can project it asl being religious.
Some meetings I attend (usually in our Arts District) are nowhere near religious and the only mention of God is in the Serenity prayer at the end (in lieu of the Lord's prayer).
Just my observations!
Some meetings I attend (usually in our Arts District) are nowhere near religious and the only mention of God is in the Serenity prayer at the end (in lieu of the Lord's prayer).
Just my observations!
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NE Wisconsin USA
Posts: 6,223
Wavy we have heard it all! Especially this cult thing.
I've heard also this why the ASO won't go to AA/NA because they are cults.
It's simply denial. That's all no arguing. Just denial.
I think I will start a thread for the craziest reasons why the alcoholic doesn't want us attending Alanon.
Could it possibly that Alanon is a hour of sanity and refuge, where a person can let their guard down and be honest and able to focus on oneself. A place to learn who to live our own lives, and find our own identities.
How disappointed(relief?) the addict/alcoholic would be if know that we focus on ourselves and the SO usually isn't talked about!
Back in the early 80s this question came up often about AA and NA. There was quite a bit of cult activities happening coming out of the late 70s...especially with Jonestown....
I find it humorous that the same silliness alcoholics and addicts come up with today has been addressed over thirty years ago...if not more...
No professional cult/hate crime tracking organization has ever classified any 12 step program as a cult.
But still.......
I've heard also this why the ASO won't go to AA/NA because they are cults.
It's simply denial. That's all no arguing. Just denial.
I think I will start a thread for the craziest reasons why the alcoholic doesn't want us attending Alanon.
Could it possibly that Alanon is a hour of sanity and refuge, where a person can let their guard down and be honest and able to focus on oneself. A place to learn who to live our own lives, and find our own identities.
How disappointed(relief?) the addict/alcoholic would be if know that we focus on ourselves and the SO usually isn't talked about!
Back in the early 80s this question came up often about AA and NA. There was quite a bit of cult activities happening coming out of the late 70s...especially with Jonestown....
I find it humorous that the same silliness alcoholics and addicts come up with today has been addressed over thirty years ago...if not more...
No professional cult/hate crime tracking organization has ever classified any 12 step program as a cult.
But still.......
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 257
Originally Posted by choublak
He seems to know a lot about cults...
Originally Posted by LexieCat
But a lot of them are people who are simply negative about it without knowing a thing about it, other than what they have heard/read. But for someone who wants to keep drinking--yeah, great excuse--it's a cult!
Originally Posted by wiscsober
Wavy
How disappointed(relief?) the addict/alcoholic would be if know that we focus on ourselves and the SO usually isn't talked about!
How disappointed(relief?) the addict/alcoholic would be if know that we focus on ourselves and the SO usually isn't talked about!
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
I would like it if there was an alternative. It is a bit too Christian for me. I have found the demographics--rural locations more religious and urban ones less so. I know there would be millions of attendees to an alternative, might even take off and get more attendance than AA/Alanon.
What would the steps be though? Or would there even be steps? I have thought about this because the religious aspect is a sticking point for me, actually a trigger. (My mom was my first qualifier and she is very religious and a minister so religion doesn't work for me at all, even though I became non-religious for my own reasons besides that). There would have to be an organized plan of some kind, or all hell would break loose, excuse the pun.
Alanon meetings make me uncomfortable when there are religious people there orchestrating them. When I lived rurally without enough money to drive to a distant less religious location, I found they upset me because the meetings were conducted in a manner that seemed to assume everyone was Christian.
I have found psychologists to be mostly of a non-religious mindset, but the group think doesn't exist of course, so that is lost.
What would the steps be though? Or would there even be steps? I have thought about this because the religious aspect is a sticking point for me, actually a trigger. (My mom was my first qualifier and she is very religious and a minister so religion doesn't work for me at all, even though I became non-religious for my own reasons besides that). There would have to be an organized plan of some kind, or all hell would break loose, excuse the pun.
Alanon meetings make me uncomfortable when there are religious people there orchestrating them. When I lived rurally without enough money to drive to a distant less religious location, I found they upset me because the meetings were conducted in a manner that seemed to assume everyone was Christian.
I have found psychologists to be mostly of a non-religious mindset, but the group think doesn't exist of course, so that is lost.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 625
The concept of "cult" was introduced into sociological classification in 1932 by American sociologist Howard P. Becker as an expansion of German theologian Ernst Troeltsch's church-sect typology. Like Troeltsch's "mystical religion", Becker's cults were small religious or spiritual groups lacking in organization and emphasizing the private nature of personal beliefs.
Though in popular usage, the word cult is a pejorative term but in actuality, its true meaning is pretty close. Of course, in a conversation between Becker and a man off the street, they wouldn't be communicating effectively because popular usage really bastardized the term.
So anyway, no I don't think it's a cult in the way your loved one supposes it is. I'm posing this only because I think some might find it of interest.
Though in popular usage, the word cult is a pejorative term but in actuality, its true meaning is pretty close. Of course, in a conversation between Becker and a man off the street, they wouldn't be communicating effectively because popular usage really bastardized the term.
So anyway, no I don't think it's a cult in the way your loved one supposes it is. I'm posing this only because I think some might find it of interest.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
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When I joined Al Anon in 2001, my significant other at the time who was a raging alcoholic kept cracking jokes about me going to the "little wifeys club."
As I started to practice the Al Anon principles and set healthy boundaries for myself, he stopped joking and grew increasingly abusive and violent. I haven't attended an Al Anon meeting in a while but I still practice the program to the best of my abilities.
So yes, I am in a cult: The cult of not letting other people's drunken BS affect me
As I started to practice the Al Anon principles and set healthy boundaries for myself, he stopped joking and grew increasingly abusive and violent. I haven't attended an Al Anon meeting in a while but I still practice the program to the best of my abilities.
So yes, I am in a cult: The cult of not letting other people's drunken BS affect me
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
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He had another rant about AlAnon at the weekend, saying how he was going to 'expose' AlAnon for the cult it was, do under-cover secret filming and post it on youtube, reel in the ring leaders with a fake sob story etc etc etc If the thought of the breach of trust that would cause inside the rooms of AlAnon wasn't so mortifying I would be rolling around laughing right now.
But it did serve a purpose, I realised something important. ABF said I was getting very defensive and he didn't understand why, he was attacking AlAnon, not me. And I was getting very upset and very defensive because I did feel attacked and I felt like he was questioning my judgement of what was good for myself.
But then I realised what the real problem was. I grew up being a good girl, doing everything for everyone else, doing as I was told (or else) and it makes me intensely uncomfortable to be doing something that someone else disapproves of. I wanted him to give me the OK to go, to tell me that it was a good thing for me to do, to have his blessing. In fact me feeling he was saying he couldn't trust my judgement (even tho he said he wasn't) was me wondering if I could trust my judgement, wanting him to tell me I was making the right choices, validating my choices, so that he would prop up my doubt of my own judgement (well it hasn't got me into a very good place so far, that's for sure!).
I am, and always was, still going to go to AlAnon, but working out that sitting with his disapproval was what was causing my distress is another step forward to understanding myself and my motives, and hopefully changing them!
But it did serve a purpose, I realised something important. ABF said I was getting very defensive and he didn't understand why, he was attacking AlAnon, not me. And I was getting very upset and very defensive because I did feel attacked and I felt like he was questioning my judgement of what was good for myself.
But then I realised what the real problem was. I grew up being a good girl, doing everything for everyone else, doing as I was told (or else) and it makes me intensely uncomfortable to be doing something that someone else disapproves of. I wanted him to give me the OK to go, to tell me that it was a good thing for me to do, to have his blessing. In fact me feeling he was saying he couldn't trust my judgement (even tho he said he wasn't) was me wondering if I could trust my judgement, wanting him to tell me I was making the right choices, validating my choices, so that he would prop up my doubt of my own judgement (well it hasn't got me into a very good place so far, that's for sure!).
I am, and always was, still going to go to AlAnon, but working out that sitting with his disapproval was what was causing my distress is another step forward to understanding myself and my motives, and hopefully changing them!
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Originally Posted by Wavy
But then I realised what the real problem was. I grew up being a good girl, doing everything for everyone else, doing as I was told (or else) and it makes me intensely uncomfortable to be doing something that someone else disapproves of. I wanted him to give me the OK to go, to tell me that it was a good thing for me to do, to have his blessing. In fact me feeling he was saying he couldn't trust my judgement (even tho he said he wasn't) was me wondering if I could trust my judgement, wanting him to tell me I was making the right choices, validating my choices, so that he would prop up my doubt of my own judgement (well it hasn't got me into a very good place so far, that's for sure!).
I am, and always was, still going to go to AlAnon, but working out that sitting with his disapproval was what was causing my distress is another step forward to understanding myself and my motives, and hopefully changing them!
I am, and always was, still going to go to AlAnon, but working out that sitting with his disapproval was what was causing my distress is another step forward to understanding myself and my motives, and hopefully changing them!
Wishing you more learning and more peace and more clarity.
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My therapist said a very wise things to me once about the "good girl" piece in which a lot of my struggles arise from.
Others don't like it when their "enabler, good girl....etc substitute any word in here" start to change. It leaves them with a lot more to do on their own, and it makes them uncomfortable.
I have seen this time and time again. In my intimate relationships, friendships etc. Sometimes it is exhausting because I am feeling so proud of the changes I am making, and I just get hit with a wall from those around me not liking it. It is a two step forward one back sometimes because I question myself, my "motives" etc.
Sitting with those and uncovering it all layer by layer has been so great for me.
Others don't like it when their "enabler, good girl....etc substitute any word in here" start to change. It leaves them with a lot more to do on their own, and it makes them uncomfortable.
I have seen this time and time again. In my intimate relationships, friendships etc. Sometimes it is exhausting because I am feeling so proud of the changes I am making, and I just get hit with a wall from those around me not liking it. It is a two step forward one back sometimes because I question myself, my "motives" etc.
Sitting with those and uncovering it all layer by layer has been so great for me.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 602
It's a good question, Wavy. I could be wrong but it sounds as though your partner is more interested in dismissing your new-found strength than really finding out about al-anon.
But to answer your question, I'm with Mike. It's a good "raft"--a lifesaving raft! But no, I'm not comfortable defining myself in terms of someone else's addiction for the rest of my life.
And certainly the God-y things are all over it. I'm an atheist. I respect you LexiCat, but we both know that the Lord's prayer is not just "small t traditional" like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes. It's a profoundly meaningful prayer to Christians. I believe a lot of things but I don't believe there is a God, who is my father, who lives in heaven and provides for me. Expecting me to join in saying it just because everyone else is in the habit of saying it every day in church or what ever... well, no. Watch me dig in my heels.
And the larger idea of a higher power--again, no. It's like throwing a bone to the atheists: "Oh, right you don't believe in God, just say 'higher power' instead." Meanwhile it's still built around a Christian model of sin, faith, redemption. My belief is very much that there is *not* a higher power, etc. So again, no.
But, back to you Wavy: it's not perfect, but it's not a cult.
But to answer your question, I'm with Mike. It's a good "raft"--a lifesaving raft! But no, I'm not comfortable defining myself in terms of someone else's addiction for the rest of my life.
And certainly the God-y things are all over it. I'm an atheist. I respect you LexiCat, but we both know that the Lord's prayer is not just "small t traditional" like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes. It's a profoundly meaningful prayer to Christians. I believe a lot of things but I don't believe there is a God, who is my father, who lives in heaven and provides for me. Expecting me to join in saying it just because everyone else is in the habit of saying it every day in church or what ever... well, no. Watch me dig in my heels.
And the larger idea of a higher power--again, no. It's like throwing a bone to the atheists: "Oh, right you don't believe in God, just say 'higher power' instead." Meanwhile it's still built around a Christian model of sin, faith, redemption. My belief is very much that there is *not* a higher power, etc. So again, no.
But, back to you Wavy: it's not perfect, but it's not a cult.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
If it's a cult...
...then who's the leader? Clearly it's him getting desperate because of his profound fear of losing his enabler. It is, as others have said, alcoholism talking.
When people pleasers stop people pleasing people are not pleased.
Take care,
Cyranoak
P.s. He does not get to talk about your recovery. It's yours.
When people pleasers stop people pleasing people are not pleased.
Take care,
Cyranoak
P.s. He does not get to talk about your recovery. It's yours.
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