need some ESH about RAH moving back home
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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need some ESH about RAH moving back home
My RAH moved out in Oct and has been sober since then. It's been a very hard year, even with him not living with us. We've been seeing a therapist since March and the therapist believes that my RAH is bipolar. RAH will not see a psychiatrist. RAH wants to move back home and wants a list of what he needs to do before he can come home. He feels directionless. He is working on step 4, which he has relapsed on 2 times before. I have been going to Alanon since Oct.
It's probably a good idea for me to know what I want before we let my RAH move home. Is it fair to want him to find out if he is bipolar? Is it possible to know this during early recovery which is a painful roller coaster ride of mood swings? Do I limit myself to just feeling safe and not yelled at? What are tangible things he can work on before we can come back together as a family?
It's probably a good idea for me to know what I want before we let my RAH move home. Is it fair to want him to find out if he is bipolar? Is it possible to know this during early recovery which is a painful roller coaster ride of mood swings? Do I limit myself to just feeling safe and not yelled at? What are tangible things he can work on before we can come back together as a family?
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I get that as well that you are feeling pressured by him to move back home.
You mentioned that HE is working on step 4……which step are YOU working on?
If you go to the Dr for an issue and that Dr says, well it possible it’s cancer, wouldn’t you want to know for sure?
Sounds like your husband doesn’t really want to know about bipolar, maybe it’s because he’s so focused on just getting back home.
He’s asked you to put together a list of things he needs to do before he can come home, have you made that list?
Personally I would want to know for sure about the bipolar, which can be treated with medication to stabilize his moods if he’s truly bipolar.
It really comes down to WHAT YOU want NOT what HE WANTS moving forward. There is no rush when it comes to repairing broken relationships due to addiction.
You mentioned that HE is working on step 4……which step are YOU working on?
If you go to the Dr for an issue and that Dr says, well it possible it’s cancer, wouldn’t you want to know for sure?
Sounds like your husband doesn’t really want to know about bipolar, maybe it’s because he’s so focused on just getting back home.
He’s asked you to put together a list of things he needs to do before he can come home, have you made that list?
Personally I would want to know for sure about the bipolar, which can be treated with medication to stabilize his moods if he’s truly bipolar.
It really comes down to WHAT YOU want NOT what HE WANTS moving forward. There is no rush when it comes to repairing broken relationships due to addiction.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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dandylion, because i'm getting the hard press for sex, for moving back in, etc. Although I feel that pressure, I have not acted on it. Sometimes I want to run away or wave my magic wand and make the crazy bits disappear. I seem to have misplaced my wand. . .
atalose, i'm doing step 4 as well.
here's my list so far. Is it reasonable?
I want him to engage emotionally with the kids and me and not just pretend to other people that he's a great dad because he pays the bills.
I want him to find out if he is bipolar and then treat it.
I want the irritability to be gone.
I want him to finish the 4th step and stop calling it the resentment step.
i want him to stop pressuring me for sex and telling me that he pays the bills and therefore is owed intimacy.
i want him to stop complaining about me/kids with his family who are then sending nasty notes to my kids.
Is it fair to ask for all of that before he moves back? He is currently living with his father and I know that's an unhealthy place for him to be. I want to support his recovery but not at the expense of my own sanity. Sometimes that line isn't so clear to me.
atalose, i'm doing step 4 as well.
here's my list so far. Is it reasonable?
I want him to engage emotionally with the kids and me and not just pretend to other people that he's a great dad because he pays the bills.
I want him to find out if he is bipolar and then treat it.
I want the irritability to be gone.
I want him to finish the 4th step and stop calling it the resentment step.
i want him to stop pressuring me for sex and telling me that he pays the bills and therefore is owed intimacy.
i want him to stop complaining about me/kids with his family who are then sending nasty notes to my kids.
Is it fair to ask for all of that before he moves back? He is currently living with his father and I know that's an unhealthy place for him to be. I want to support his recovery but not at the expense of my own sanity. Sometimes that line isn't so clear to me.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
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Speaking as the STBX spouse of a bipolar alcoholic, I would require that he be in treatment for BOTH the alcoholism and BPD for a minimum of a year, with a year's sobriety, before I would consider letting him back under my roof. My STBXAH has been "in recovery" for three years now, but can't get a year under his belt. A few quiet months isn't enough to justify moving him back in, especially knowing all the disappointment and chaos that go with living with an active addict in your home.
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by mry 
here's my list so far. Is it reasonable?
I want him to engage emotionally with the kids and me and not just pretend to other people that he's a great dad because he pays the bills.
I want him to find out if he is bipolar and then treat it.
I want the irritability to be gone.
I want him to finish the 4th step and stop calling it the resentment step.
i want him to stop pressuring me for sex and telling me that he pays the bills and therefore is owed intimacy.
i want him to stop complaining about me/kids with his family who are then sending nasty notes to my kids.
Is it fair to ask for all of that before he moves back? He is currently living with his father and I know that's an unhealthy place for him to be. I want to support his recovery but not at the expense of my own sanity. Sometimes that line isn't so clear to me.
I want him to engage emotionally with the kids and me and not just pretend to other people that he's a great dad because he pays the bills.
I want him to find out if he is bipolar and then treat it.
I want the irritability to be gone.
I want him to finish the 4th step and stop calling it the resentment step.
i want him to stop pressuring me for sex and telling me that he pays the bills and therefore is owed intimacy.
i want him to stop complaining about me/kids with his family who are then sending nasty notes to my kids.
Is it fair to ask for all of that before he moves back? He is currently living with his father and I know that's an unhealthy place for him to be. I want to support his recovery but not at the expense of my own sanity. Sometimes that line isn't so clear to me.
We didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it. It is fair to ask all of these things, because they're what you want. It is unreasonable to expect them, because that's not what he wants.
*Can't control it: My AXBF used to think he was Father of the Year because he kept a roof over his child's head. He spent, on the rare occasion, a few minutes with the child. Most days there was no contact whatsoever. The moral of the story is that he is not going to emotionally connect to someone until he is ready. I think people like he and my ex like the ego boost that come with doing that (financially taking care of children).
*Can't cure it: Although it is obviously the right choice to seek out a mental health diagnosis and treatment (if necessary), it can't be forced.
*Can't control it: I've heard that irritability and recover tend to go hand in hand sometimes.
*Can't control it: He's got to work his program at his pace. You've got to work your program at your pace. Dangling the "come home" carrot over him to get above the 4th step will produce unfavorable results.
*This one is different -- very much a red flag. Sexual abuse/assault is a serious issue. With him pressuring you, it could escalate. You do not owe him sex for paying the bills. He is supposed to pay the bills -- he is an adult supporting a family. That's what adults who support families do. He does not have the right to intimidate, coerce, threaten, or force himself upon you for any reason! If you don't want sex, tell him NO! And if he doesn't listen, call for help. Call the police and call a domestic violence shelter and get out of there. It doesn't matter if you're married/together, have kids, do it all the time, etc. If you say no, then NO means NO! Please keep yourself safe, mry.
*Can't control it: He's complaining about the kids and his family is sending notes to the kids?
But seriously, I would reconsider letting him move back in. He's obviously got several issues he needs to work on that are going to take a LOT of time. Nothing is going to happen overnight.
Take care of you and the kids first. That's who matter the most.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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ok, the demand for sex things always creeps me out. that speaks volumes about how he SEES you....as an object to fulfill his needs.
it is not unreasonable to want to be valued, respected, and treated with dignity. to want a father to ACT like a father, devoted to his children.
however, it's not likely you'll GET that from your RAH any time soon. you aren't asking him to change a behavior, like leaving dirty socks in the living room, you are asking him to change his personality. to seek treatment for a potential diagnosis of bipolar - which if true is not quickly or easily remedied. you are asking him to change his outlook on the world...from selfish to selfless. to foster a compassion and affection that he may not possess.
it is not unreasonable to want to be valued, respected, and treated with dignity. to want a father to ACT like a father, devoted to his children.
however, it's not likely you'll GET that from your RAH any time soon. you aren't asking him to change a behavior, like leaving dirty socks in the living room, you are asking him to change his personality. to seek treatment for a potential diagnosis of bipolar - which if true is not quickly or easily remedied. you are asking him to change his outlook on the world...from selfish to selfless. to foster a compassion and affection that he may not possess.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I think you really need to get wide eyed and accepting of:
Maybe he is just not capable drunk or sober of being emotionally available to you or your kids. Maybe what he’s giving is the best he’s got.
Maybe being a father to him only needs to involve paying the bills with no emotional involvement.
He is in very early recovery, complaining and blaming you and dragging his family into it is not mature or true recovery.
You say he is staying with his father – and that the situation is not a healthy one…..can you explain why?
It almost sounds like all the things you want him to do …….could possible be to change into the person you want him to be and not the person he may really be.
You need to look closely at his family, how he grew up, how his own mother and father treated each other…….then you will have a very good indication of who he really is.
Maybe he is just not capable drunk or sober of being emotionally available to you or your kids. Maybe what he’s giving is the best he’s got.
Maybe being a father to him only needs to involve paying the bills with no emotional involvement.
He is in very early recovery, complaining and blaming you and dragging his family into it is not mature or true recovery.
You say he is staying with his father – and that the situation is not a healthy one…..can you explain why?
It almost sounds like all the things you want him to do …….could possible be to change into the person you want him to be and not the person he may really be.
You need to look closely at his family, how he grew up, how his own mother and father treated each other…….then you will have a very good indication of who he really is.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 220
It sounds like things are becoming uncomfortable for him and he is looking for that soft place to land. Then, when he fulfills the expectations on the list to his standards, and they are not to your standards, it is just more "resentment" from him and attempts to make you the bad guy.
Why not just wait a year of solid recovery, with no expectations, and see if he is then a person you want to spend the rest of your life with?
As is often wisely said, more will be revealed.
Why not just wait a year of solid recovery, with no expectations, and see if he is then a person you want to spend the rest of your life with?
As is often wisely said, more will be revealed.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Dear mry, I can see why you feel uncertain in your gut about him returning back the relationship as he was before. You have every reason to doubt the wisdom of this.
The kind of things that you want are what any person would want---a respectful, responsible, campassionate and caring---this is what exists in a healthy non-alcoholic marriage. Asking an alcoholic to be these things after a few months of abstaining is l ike asking an elephant to become a zebra. The kind of things you are asking for takes working all of the 12 steps with a sponsor and l00% committment to a strenuous program. This is how the thinking changes--which brings attitude changes--which brings about real changes in BEHAVIOR. This does not happen overnight. It may
happen in 2---5 years.
If he were really "in the program" he would be m ore concerned about keeping his sobriety as number one priority--NOT moving back in with you---and NOT pressuring you for sex. That is a red flag, as far as I am concerned (as was anvilhead). Pressuring you for sex says that he sees you as an object that he can control (by manipulation) for his own needs. No man ever died for the lack of sex. Those are urges that he is capable of dealing with.
Alcoholics are typically very ******** in terms of emotional maturity after several years of drinking. Much like self-centered teenagers. "I want what I want when I want it---and I will pressure you until I get it---regardless of your feelings or needs". Of course he wants to move back in--it was a good deal for HIM.
I understand how stressful this has been in your life. Can you imagine how this is affecting your children---this kind of instability and roller-coaster atmosphere in the home is the feeding ground for the horror stories told by the posters in the Adult Child of Alcoholic site. You should read some of them---they are such an eye opener.
Hon, as a mother you need to consider what an ill-founded desision on this will result in---you need to be a happy and serene person to be the best mother for these children. If you are miserable--they will pay a price. You deserve the best life you can have!!!!! You deserve to sleep in peace at night.
mry--you can see that I haven't sugar-coated anything. You are important enough to know the reality of what you are up against.
sincerely, dandylion
The kind of things that you want are what any person would want---a respectful, responsible, campassionate and caring---this is what exists in a healthy non-alcoholic marriage. Asking an alcoholic to be these things after a few months of abstaining is l ike asking an elephant to become a zebra. The kind of things you are asking for takes working all of the 12 steps with a sponsor and l00% committment to a strenuous program. This is how the thinking changes--which brings attitude changes--which brings about real changes in BEHAVIOR. This does not happen overnight. It may
happen in 2---5 years.
If he were really "in the program" he would be m ore concerned about keeping his sobriety as number one priority--NOT moving back in with you---and NOT pressuring you for sex. That is a red flag, as far as I am concerned (as was anvilhead). Pressuring you for sex says that he sees you as an object that he can control (by manipulation) for his own needs. No man ever died for the lack of sex. Those are urges that he is capable of dealing with.
Alcoholics are typically very ******** in terms of emotional maturity after several years of drinking. Much like self-centered teenagers. "I want what I want when I want it---and I will pressure you until I get it---regardless of your feelings or needs". Of course he wants to move back in--it was a good deal for HIM.
I understand how stressful this has been in your life. Can you imagine how this is affecting your children---this kind of instability and roller-coaster atmosphere in the home is the feeding ground for the horror stories told by the posters in the Adult Child of Alcoholic site. You should read some of them---they are such an eye opener.
Hon, as a mother you need to consider what an ill-founded desision on this will result in---you need to be a happy and serene person to be the best mother for these children. If you are miserable--they will pay a price. You deserve the best life you can have!!!!! You deserve to sleep in peace at night.
mry--you can see that I haven't sugar-coated anything. You are important enough to know the reality of what you are up against.
sincerely, dandylion
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Originally Posted by mry
I want him to engage emotionally with the kids and me and not just pretend to other people that he's a great dad because he pays the bills.
I want him to find out if he is bipolar and then treat it.
I want the irritability to be gone.
I want him to finish the 4th step and stop calling it the resentment step.
i want him to stop pressuring me for sex and telling me that he pays the bills and therefore is owed intimacy.
i want him to stop complaining about me/kids with his family who are then sending nasty notes to my kids.
Is it fair to ask for all of that before he moves back?
I want him to find out if he is bipolar and then treat it.
I want the irritability to be gone.
I want him to finish the 4th step and stop calling it the resentment step.
i want him to stop pressuring me for sex and telling me that he pays the bills and therefore is owed intimacy.
i want him to stop complaining about me/kids with his family who are then sending nasty notes to my kids.
Is it fair to ask for all of that before he moves back?
Replace the "I want's" with "I will not accept".
I will not accept a relationship man who can't be emotionally available to me and my children.
I will not be in a relationship with anyone with an untreated mental illness.
I will not be in a relationship with a man who is incapable of dealing with his moods, especially anger and irritability.
I won't be in a relationship with a man who quits activities just as they begin to get uncomfortable for him.
And so on...
If he is really doing all these behaviors, why are you even considering him moving back in so he can terrorize you and your kids daily in your home? Doesn't sound like recovery is working for him. He's just NOT drinking. That is not the same thing.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 453
I'm new to this as well, with a newly RAH (he's at 28 days so far) so limited ESH, but I see red flags as it does not seem that he is taking responsibility for his actions or for his recovery. It sounds like he is making reasonable effort to work his steps but is not far enough along to admit there are some other issues he needs to work through. Would he be open to joint counseling to discuss what steps each of you should take before he returns to your home? It may be a way to open the door to treatment for the possible bipolar, and to have productive communications with one another. It also sounds like you need a little more time to determine what your specific wants and needs are and what boundaries you need in place to meet your needs and wants.
Thank you for posting this. As we are in similar situations, I would like to hear how things proceed for you if you are inclined to share. I hope for the best for you.
Thank you for posting this. As we are in similar situations, I would like to hear how things proceed for you if you are inclined to share. I hope for the best for you.
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
All I can offer is my experience...
I was separated 3 times before I finally filed first for legal separation and then later divorce (though the divorce is still on hold because he hasn't agreed to the final separation but that's a separate matter)...
I wish to god that I had NEVER EVER let him move back after the first separation.
I worried I was making a mistake and I believed I owed it to him, to our kids and to me to try.
So he moved back each of the 3 times and within days it was awful again.
I wanted the same things you did and got NONE of them. He told me all the things I wanted to hear that he could and would be a fully functional part of the family, that he would be respectful etc...
He wasn't. He couldn't be. He was and is sick and couldn't put anyone else before himself or even equal to himself.
Some of the things you are saying you need of your RAH make it sound like addiction and mental health issues aren't all he deals with. Control, power, abuse issues sound present. Demanding sex isn't about alcoholism or bi polar. It IS about abuse and control and entitlement.
No one here can tell you what to do. You may have to have him move back and see how it goes to see for yourself if it can work. I hope that it can and hope he will be different than most.
But I can tell you that I wish I'd had a concrete plan for myself and my kids the first 3 times he moved back and then started making our lives hell.
Once he was back each time it was much much much harder to get him to leave and things got much worse before they got better.
I'd vote for telling him he needs to live away for a year and be in treatment and get himself well and there's nothing saying you can't spend time together and "date" while separated if he is making improvements and shorten the year separation period...
I know that I made the choice to let my "R"AH back much too soon each time we were separated and I caused myself and my children unspeakable grief bc of my choices.
My 2 cents....
I was separated 3 times before I finally filed first for legal separation and then later divorce (though the divorce is still on hold because he hasn't agreed to the final separation but that's a separate matter)...
I wish to god that I had NEVER EVER let him move back after the first separation.
I worried I was making a mistake and I believed I owed it to him, to our kids and to me to try.
So he moved back each of the 3 times and within days it was awful again.
I wanted the same things you did and got NONE of them. He told me all the things I wanted to hear that he could and would be a fully functional part of the family, that he would be respectful etc...
He wasn't. He couldn't be. He was and is sick and couldn't put anyone else before himself or even equal to himself.
Some of the things you are saying you need of your RAH make it sound like addiction and mental health issues aren't all he deals with. Control, power, abuse issues sound present. Demanding sex isn't about alcoholism or bi polar. It IS about abuse and control and entitlement.
No one here can tell you what to do. You may have to have him move back and see how it goes to see for yourself if it can work. I hope that it can and hope he will be different than most.
But I can tell you that I wish I'd had a concrete plan for myself and my kids the first 3 times he moved back and then started making our lives hell.
Once he was back each time it was much much much harder to get him to leave and things got much worse before they got better.
I'd vote for telling him he needs to live away for a year and be in treatment and get himself well and there's nothing saying you can't spend time together and "date" while separated if he is making improvements and shorten the year separation period...
I know that I made the choice to let my "R"AH back much too soon each time we were separated and I caused myself and my children unspeakable grief bc of my choices.
My 2 cents....
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
As an adult child of an alcoholic I can tell you what I would want as a kid in this relationship. I would want to be safe and secure and loved and wanted and protected by sober parents or parent.
I would not want to be anywhere near the person who took all of that away from me.
Your friend,
I would not want to be anywhere near the person who took all of that away from me.
Your friend,
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 78
I know that he is not ready to come back. So what do people do in this situation? Live separate for years (the 2-5 it takes to work all the steps?) Is that fair to him to have it completely together before he comes back? That would be ideal for me but that isn't realistic. He is pressuring to divorce me if we continue to live apart. Maybe that would be best. Does no one stay married and make it through recovery?
His father isn't good for him - he supports the blaming and thinks just being sober is all my RAH needs to do. The kids and I have gotten the brunt of the drinking/mood swings so my FIL thinks my RAH is doing a great job.
Just to be clear, the sexual pressure is all verbal and not physical. I have discussed feeling like an object with the therapist and it's been the topic of several of our joint sessions.
I find the lack of humility to be the hardest thing to deal with. It's even worse than the irritability and mood swings.
His father isn't good for him - he supports the blaming and thinks just being sober is all my RAH needs to do. The kids and I have gotten the brunt of the drinking/mood swings so my FIL thinks my RAH is doing a great job.
Just to be clear, the sexual pressure is all verbal and not physical. I have discussed feeling like an object with the therapist and it's been the topic of several of our joint sessions.
I find the lack of humility to be the hardest thing to deal with. It's even worse than the irritability and mood swings.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Is that fair to him ...
I'm sorry but he's torn everyone's lives apart, had to move out and now he's concerned with sex? Listen, he's telling you what's important and it's me, me, me.
Things got a lot clearer for me when I took the focus off the alcoholic and put it on to me where it belongs.
Your friend,
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
It doesn't take 2-5 years to work the Steps. They can ALL be worked in a matter of days--that's how they did it back when AA was new.
It might be unfair for you to expect him to be "perfect" before he comes home--none of us is perfect--but it isn't unfair for you to see that he is someone you WANT to spend time with--as he is at the moment you let him come back home. IOW, to have progressed sufficiently that he is stable in his sobriety and has matured sufficiently that you can feel some degree of confidence that he has truly changed.
From what I am hearing from you, none of those are true right now.
What I'm hearing is someone who thinks he can check off certain criteria like a list of chores, and once he has done that, he is entitled for you to take him back and, moreover, to sleep with him. Sorry, relationships don't work that way. It sounds as if he is applying for a job and showing you his credentials and trying to convince you he's up to the job.
An employer looks BEYOND the list of qualifications, and looks at such things as whether the applicant will be able to handle the job, whether he will require constant supervision, whether he will fit in with the company's mission. Are you confident he will fit in with YOUR mission? If not, I would suggest you not hire him.
It might be unfair for you to expect him to be "perfect" before he comes home--none of us is perfect--but it isn't unfair for you to see that he is someone you WANT to spend time with--as he is at the moment you let him come back home. IOW, to have progressed sufficiently that he is stable in his sobriety and has matured sufficiently that you can feel some degree of confidence that he has truly changed.
From what I am hearing from you, none of those are true right now.
What I'm hearing is someone who thinks he can check off certain criteria like a list of chores, and once he has done that, he is entitled for you to take him back and, moreover, to sleep with him. Sorry, relationships don't work that way. It sounds as if he is applying for a job and showing you his credentials and trying to convince you he's up to the job.
An employer looks BEYOND the list of qualifications, and looks at such things as whether the applicant will be able to handle the job, whether he will require constant supervision, whether he will fit in with the company's mission. Are you confident he will fit in with YOUR mission? If not, I would suggest you not hire him.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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Originally Posted by mry
He is pressuring to divorce me if we continue to live apart.
He divorced me. Ok. Good riddance. You see, this isn't about HIM. It's about YOU. Your comfort level. Your needs. Your boundaries.
And, I believe that if my marriage were really meant to be - it would have worked out far better than it did. If it is meant to be, it will be again in the future.
Lastly, I refuse to put my children in a situation that is toxic and unhealthy. That is my utmost boundary as long as I have kids in the home. It really became that simple.
So divorce sucks. But what other option was there? Compromise myself for him? I think I had done enough of that already....
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear mry and Lexie---I was very unclear about working the steps--no, it doesn't have to take 2-5yrs to work the steps. MRY seems to be looking for the kind of deep changes in behavior that can't be accomplished in a short time (few weeks to few months) in a person who appears to be fairly well progressed i n the disease. Chnaging long standing thinking patterns and attitudes takes considerable motivation and effort.
I am going by what I have heard the "longtimers" in AA tell me. They seem to consider anyone in the program from 1-2 yrs. a newcomer. Some say 3yrs. I have had some tell me that one cannot be considered a longtimer until 5yrs! Even so, one has to always be vigilant for the disease to rear its head because it is always "waiting in the bushes" for an opportunity.
I am not in AA, so I tend to trust what the longtimers who have lots of experience tell me. I know that these guys tend to be hardliners!
If I have been overzelous--my intent is for mry to understand that the kind of changes she would (understandably) want don't come rapidly or easily--which I think many are inclined to believe.
Certainly, I don't mean to misrepresent, though,
Thanks,
dandylion
I am going by what I have heard the "longtimers" in AA tell me. They seem to consider anyone in the program from 1-2 yrs. a newcomer. Some say 3yrs. I have had some tell me that one cannot be considered a longtimer until 5yrs! Even so, one has to always be vigilant for the disease to rear its head because it is always "waiting in the bushes" for an opportunity.
I am not in AA, so I tend to trust what the longtimers who have lots of experience tell me. I know that these guys tend to be hardliners!
If I have been overzelous--my intent is for mry to understand that the kind of changes she would (understandably) want don't come rapidly or easily--which I think many are inclined to believe.
Certainly, I don't mean to misrepresent, though,
Thanks,
dandylion
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
It completely depends on the person. I'd say a year is the minimum amount of time to judge how solidly on the road someone is. By then someone should have most of his or her marbles back, even if there is still a lot of progress to be made. For people who get very serious with the program (my first husband comes to mind, but I have known others in the program like this), there can be AMAZING changes in a year--much more than those who show up at the occasional meeting and are operating mainly on willpower.
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