Logically, why stay with an A?
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
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Logically, why stay with an A?
I realize there are as many justifications/reasons/explanations for staying with an A as there are people who post on this board. Deciding to stay or leave is a personal matter. But after a session with my counselor today, I began thinking to myself, "Okay I fell in love with this guy, but he's treated me like scum the last six months, so he's pretty much killed any loving feelings I had for him. He's self-serving, emotionally immature, and the only LOGICAL purpose he seems to serve in my universe is to keep ME recreating an unhealthy dynamic of relating; namely, to keep me the victim while he serves as my accuser."
LIGHT BULB GOES ON WITH A BLINDING FLASH: I'm expending more energy keeping a dead-end relationship going than expending energy on fulfilling my life on my own. Ain't nobody on this planet who can ever fulfill that fantasy I have of getting the accepting, nurturing parents I NEVER had. My folks are dead, but I have relentlessly pursued addicts, abusers, losers - you name it in the who's who of screwballs and I've pursued them - just to have my dream of parental acceptance come true.
Funny thing is, it dawned on me while my AH sat in front of me and said with such vehemence and pleasure yesterday: "NOBODY likes you M., EVERYBODY has your number and knows what a gold digger you really are." that I was hearing my mother's voice. It wasn't my AH speaking, it was a voice from very, very long ago telling me I was no damn good and would never be anything but a loser.
So ..... logic kicked in today after the shock wore off. I drive a Saturn - not a Mercedes; I am a member of not one but TWO national honor societies and consistently make the dean's list; I have 24 semester hours to go before I have my B.S. in Legal Studies. Yep, sounds like a typical GOLD DIGGER to me! I'm busting my hump to have a better life, solid career, and to finally genuinely love myself just as I am. Meantime, I went by the local mall to apply for a job at a gourmet food shop. I'm keeping my fingers crossed I either end up there or working for some local attorney until I finish my degree.
Thus, logic dictates that I don't need my AH in my life or anyone else like him who wants to tear me down. Once I was able to stand back and look at this for what it is and quit dealing my cards with my emotions, I thought "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I can't come up with a rational, healthy, single damn reason for living like this anymore."
LIGHT BULB GOES ON WITH A BLINDING FLASH: I'm expending more energy keeping a dead-end relationship going than expending energy on fulfilling my life on my own. Ain't nobody on this planet who can ever fulfill that fantasy I have of getting the accepting, nurturing parents I NEVER had. My folks are dead, but I have relentlessly pursued addicts, abusers, losers - you name it in the who's who of screwballs and I've pursued them - just to have my dream of parental acceptance come true.
Funny thing is, it dawned on me while my AH sat in front of me and said with such vehemence and pleasure yesterday: "NOBODY likes you M., EVERYBODY has your number and knows what a gold digger you really are." that I was hearing my mother's voice. It wasn't my AH speaking, it was a voice from very, very long ago telling me I was no damn good and would never be anything but a loser.
So ..... logic kicked in today after the shock wore off. I drive a Saturn - not a Mercedes; I am a member of not one but TWO national honor societies and consistently make the dean's list; I have 24 semester hours to go before I have my B.S. in Legal Studies. Yep, sounds like a typical GOLD DIGGER to me! I'm busting my hump to have a better life, solid career, and to finally genuinely love myself just as I am. Meantime, I went by the local mall to apply for a job at a gourmet food shop. I'm keeping my fingers crossed I either end up there or working for some local attorney until I finish my degree.
Thus, logic dictates that I don't need my AH in my life or anyone else like him who wants to tear me down. Once I was able to stand back and look at this for what it is and quit dealing my cards with my emotions, I thought "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I can't come up with a rational, healthy, single damn reason for living like this anymore."
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
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Lightbulb moments are so awesome. 
Realizations like those are the catalysts that let us begin to change a lifetime of habits. Fingers crossed on your job application!
Hugs,
Smoke
Realizations like those are the catalysts that let us begin to change a lifetime of habits. Fingers crossed on your job application!Hugs,
Smoke
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Posts: 39
Prodigal, I think this way sometimes, too. Why am I in a relationship with someone who likes beer more than me? It's such a weird cycle. When he's sober, we have such a wonderful time together. But I often wonder whether it's worth it. I still don't know, so I'm just rolling along and not making any decisions yet 
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Backwoods, PA
Posts: 223
As I read your post, I sat here shaking my head and smiling. It is all so VERY true.
Someone once told me that just because my own father never loved me, I have been grabbing onto ANYONE who has paid the least bit of attention to me. I want so much to have a man's acceptance, love, and approval. I, too, have always picked the abusive men. I guess I felt that I didn't deserve to be treated any differently. I carry some pretty nasty scars from my childhood. These learned behaviors set me up to keep making the same poor choices and mistakes over and over and over and over.
But a good friend told me not too long ago. "People need to stop using their bad childhood experiences as a crutch. Accept that it happened and it can't be changed. Get help and then move on. One day or one minute at a time. God only gave us one life to live and I'm sure that he would want us to enjoy it. And then she reminded me, 'Look how Jesus suffered.'"
I know sooooo many people that are in abusive/alcoholic marriages. The majority of them stay because they can't afford to leave or because they are comfortable with their lifestyle.........material possessions!
NO MATERIAL POSSESSION is going to bring me happiness, peace and serenity.
Thank you for this post!
Someone once told me that just because my own father never loved me, I have been grabbing onto ANYONE who has paid the least bit of attention to me. I want so much to have a man's acceptance, love, and approval. I, too, have always picked the abusive men. I guess I felt that I didn't deserve to be treated any differently. I carry some pretty nasty scars from my childhood. These learned behaviors set me up to keep making the same poor choices and mistakes over and over and over and over.
But a good friend told me not too long ago. "People need to stop using their bad childhood experiences as a crutch. Accept that it happened and it can't be changed. Get help and then move on. One day or one minute at a time. God only gave us one life to live and I'm sure that he would want us to enjoy it. And then she reminded me, 'Look how Jesus suffered.'"
I know sooooo many people that are in abusive/alcoholic marriages. The majority of them stay because they can't afford to leave or because they are comfortable with their lifestyle.........material possessions!
NO MATERIAL POSSESSION is going to bring me happiness, peace and serenity.
Thank you for this post!
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Prodigal,
I don't think there is ever a logical reason for staying with an A. Emotions tend not to be very logical. Like you, I grew up in an abusive home with an alcoholic father and an ACOA mother. My first husband did not drink. I made sure of that. But he had other issues and eventually we just grew apart, divorcing after 17 years.
I dated two other men after that who were not A's. One hated his mother and had his own serious issues. That did not last very long. The next guy was great until I found out that he was living with another woman who he evetually married to avoid legal problems.
The third guy was the charm. He's a flaming A and smokes pot. If you've read my other posts, you know that I just dumped him. I've spent the last 8 years of my life involved with him in some way. In restrospect, it's been 8 years of one night stands. So, your question is a good one. Why did I stay?
I stayed in the begining, because I didn't know any better. I'd never dated an A and didn't know the signs, although I knew something wasn't quite right from the very beginning.
Then I stayed because I thought he would change. I never tried to change him, I was smart enough to know I couldn't.
After that, I stayed because I felt I had made a huge emotional investment and didn't want to quit without giving it some effort.
When that didn't work, I gave up on a future with him, but agreed to stay friends in a casual relationship. My definition of casual, however, does not include him living with someone else and seeing me on the side. That's when I dumped him. Enough is enough.
Is there much logic here? There was in my mind at the time, although in retrospect, if someone else had told me this story, I'd have thought them crazy for staying.
Gracie
I don't think there is ever a logical reason for staying with an A. Emotions tend not to be very logical. Like you, I grew up in an abusive home with an alcoholic father and an ACOA mother. My first husband did not drink. I made sure of that. But he had other issues and eventually we just grew apart, divorcing after 17 years.
I dated two other men after that who were not A's. One hated his mother and had his own serious issues. That did not last very long. The next guy was great until I found out that he was living with another woman who he evetually married to avoid legal problems.
The third guy was the charm. He's a flaming A and smokes pot. If you've read my other posts, you know that I just dumped him. I've spent the last 8 years of my life involved with him in some way. In restrospect, it's been 8 years of one night stands. So, your question is a good one. Why did I stay?
I stayed in the begining, because I didn't know any better. I'd never dated an A and didn't know the signs, although I knew something wasn't quite right from the very beginning.
Then I stayed because I thought he would change. I never tried to change him, I was smart enough to know I couldn't.
After that, I stayed because I felt I had made a huge emotional investment and didn't want to quit without giving it some effort.
When that didn't work, I gave up on a future with him, but agreed to stay friends in a casual relationship. My definition of casual, however, does not include him living with someone else and seeing me on the side. That's when I dumped him. Enough is enough.
Is there much logic here? There was in my mind at the time, although in retrospect, if someone else had told me this story, I'd have thought them crazy for staying.
Gracie
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Star's Hollow
Posts: 615
I stay with my AH because I think it is OK for me to live my life this way. I think that his happiness and what he wants are more important than my happiness and what I want.
When I figure out why I think that way and change the way I think, I'll be able to be happy with him or without him. Then, I will be able to decide whether I should stay or not.
I don't know about you, but I have never been logical in dealing with this. Looking back, I was a little crazy. Sounds like you are doing great and building a life for yourself. Don't listen to the put downs - you know the source.
L
When I figure out why I think that way and change the way I think, I'll be able to be happy with him or without him. Then, I will be able to decide whether I should stay or not.
I don't know about you, but I have never been logical in dealing with this. Looking back, I was a little crazy. Sounds like you are doing great and building a life for yourself. Don't listen to the put downs - you know the source.
L
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
((prodigal))
I have been in therapy for 7 months. I have found that the disasterous results I was having in my life were caused by the things I learned as a child. I have had more lightbulb moments in 7 months than in 36 years. And I have been able to make changes that I never thought possible. Some changes have been obvious, and some are just how I perceive things. I hope you find the serenity and happiness that you deserve. Hugs, Magic
I have been in therapy for 7 months. I have found that the disasterous results I was having in my life were caused by the things I learned as a child. I have had more lightbulb moments in 7 months than in 36 years. And I have been able to make changes that I never thought possible. Some changes have been obvious, and some are just how I perceive things. I hope you find the serenity and happiness that you deserve. Hugs, Magic
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: close to the FLAMES!!
Posts: 129
Prodigal,
I too love those lightbulb moments.They are a sign that I am growing in my recovery, that I am getting the control back in my life. I am so happy for you for realizing all that you have about where you are and where you want to be!
I wish you luck on your journey and will keep praying for you!
-SFG29
I too love those lightbulb moments.They are a sign that I am growing in my recovery, that I am getting the control back in my life. I am so happy for you for realizing all that you have about where you are and where you want to be!
I wish you luck on your journey and will keep praying for you!
-SFG29
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1
Wow!!!
It's so cool to know that I am not alone in having issues stemming from childhood. I too had a mostly absent dad who made many promises and kept none. I have one younger brother and even the last time I saw my dad this past year when I was 32, he ignored me for the most part and totally doted on my brother the whole time, pushing the knife deeper in my heart.
All my life I've chosen unsuitable/emotionally distant men but never an alcoholic til my current live-in relationship of 2.5 years. He needed me off the bat and I thought I could help him, thought I could nurture him to normalcy. He'd been sober for 7 months straight til last night when my safe world shattered, he broke the trust and even had the nerve to drive MY car DRUNK (our only vehicle) risking his life and others'.
I went to my first Al-anon meeting at lunch today, interesting, I will try a few different ones til I find one I'm comfortable with. Wish me luck. He promises to go to AA meetings if I go with him to start. I'll give him this one last chance (one of many) I guess because our co-dependency is so deep that I just can't let him go yet.
I have had a few light bulb moments of knowing my self esteem is in grave jeopardy and that I can do so much better, I have so much love to give to someone who's worthy, yet I remain here, immobilized. Many a night I sit up wondering how I can love someone who hurts and disappoints me time and again, why I keep coming back for more. On the other hand, we also have wonderful times together when he's sober, I'm constantly torn.
It's just great to know that I'm not alone, that I've got you all, thanks for being here.
And props to Prodigal, please take action to get yourself away from this toxic person if that's truly what you want to do.
Peace and love to all,
All my life I've chosen unsuitable/emotionally distant men but never an alcoholic til my current live-in relationship of 2.5 years. He needed me off the bat and I thought I could help him, thought I could nurture him to normalcy. He'd been sober for 7 months straight til last night when my safe world shattered, he broke the trust and even had the nerve to drive MY car DRUNK (our only vehicle) risking his life and others'.
I went to my first Al-anon meeting at lunch today, interesting, I will try a few different ones til I find one I'm comfortable with. Wish me luck. He promises to go to AA meetings if I go with him to start. I'll give him this one last chance (one of many) I guess because our co-dependency is so deep that I just can't let him go yet.
I have had a few light bulb moments of knowing my self esteem is in grave jeopardy and that I can do so much better, I have so much love to give to someone who's worthy, yet I remain here, immobilized. Many a night I sit up wondering how I can love someone who hurts and disappoints me time and again, why I keep coming back for more. On the other hand, we also have wonderful times together when he's sober, I'm constantly torn.
It's just great to know that I'm not alone, that I've got you all, thanks for being here.
And props to Prodigal, please take action to get yourself away from this toxic person if that's truly what you want to do.
Peace and love to all,
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
Hey Honeymizz,
I get a lot out of the Adult Children of Alcoholics forum even though my parents weren't alcoholic. They were raised by alcoholics and passed the neurosis on to me. Emotionally distant, manipulative, selfish. I am ending the cycle by learning to recover with Al-anon, therapy, and this site. Feel free to browse the boards. I have found it very helpful and educating to learn from everyone here. Hugs, Magic
I get a lot out of the Adult Children of Alcoholics forum even though my parents weren't alcoholic. They were raised by alcoholics and passed the neurosis on to me. Emotionally distant, manipulative, selfish. I am ending the cycle by learning to recover with Al-anon, therapy, and this site. Feel free to browse the boards. I have found it very helpful and educating to learn from everyone here. Hugs, Magic
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tucson Arizona
Posts: 28
I know...
I think the hardest part about all of this is that what we fell in love with
was/is genuine.
My AH truly has a heart of gold!
The thing that has kept me so long is that I have NEVER
met anybody like him... In a positive respect.
But as far as "putting you in your place",
I have experienced some of these things
and felt totally humiliated...
I think the hardest part about all of this is that what we fell in love with
was/is genuine.
My AH truly has a heart of gold!
The thing that has kept me so long is that I have NEVER
met anybody like him... In a positive respect.
But as far as "putting you in your place",
I have experienced some of these things
and felt totally humiliated...
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: in His grace
Posts: 24
I am so happy for you that you can see the truth about yourself!!! 
You go girl! Keep on challenging those voices from the past!
My dad used to tell me I was a nothing and a nobody going nowhere and I have had to fight believing it all my life. I am so grateful Jesus told me I am something and someone and he had a plan for me.
The pain of recovery is worth the peace you find in your own skin, isn't it?
You go girl! Keep on challenging those voices from the past!
My dad used to tell me I was a nothing and a nobody going nowhere and I have had to fight believing it all my life. I am so grateful Jesus told me I am something and someone and he had a plan for me.
The pain of recovery is worth the peace you find in your own skin, isn't it?
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Levittown Pennsylvania
Posts: 264
what an amazing group this is
when i first read your post i had so much to say. when i kept reading the responses i found by the end that everything i wnated to say had been said...
emotions are not logical, that has something to do with it
we see something in them, the good person underneath, and we love them
we are in denial, not sure thye are an alcoholic, believing the stuff they say and how it is our fault
we think we can change them, or they willl change, and we'll get that good side to be around all the time
we think we've invested so much, it seems a huge ordeal to get out (mentally or financially)
I agree, however, that in the end none of the reasons are good ones. The best one I can accept is simply that you love him, he does not actually pose a threat to you or anyone else, and you made a vow you believe in. In that one circumstance I could see learnign to cope and stay.
I have chosen not to. I am happy with my decision. I lost 6 years to this relationship, almost 3 of them as a wife, and that is more than enough. To hear some people live this way for decades is enough to 'scare me straight'.
Best of luck, in whatever you decide, I am happy to hear you know it is your decision to make. Taking control of ones own happiness is a huge step.
emotions are not logical, that has something to do with it
we see something in them, the good person underneath, and we love them
we are in denial, not sure thye are an alcoholic, believing the stuff they say and how it is our fault
we think we can change them, or they willl change, and we'll get that good side to be around all the time
we think we've invested so much, it seems a huge ordeal to get out (mentally or financially)
I agree, however, that in the end none of the reasons are good ones. The best one I can accept is simply that you love him, he does not actually pose a threat to you or anyone else, and you made a vow you believe in. In that one circumstance I could see learnign to cope and stay.
I have chosen not to. I am happy with my decision. I lost 6 years to this relationship, almost 3 of them as a wife, and that is more than enough. To hear some people live this way for decades is enough to 'scare me straight'.
Best of luck, in whatever you decide, I am happy to hear you know it is your decision to make. Taking control of ones own happiness is a huge step.
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[QUOTE=jessieandme2003]I have chosen not to. I am happy with my decision. I lost 6 years to this relationship, almost 3 of them as a wife, and that is more than enough. To hear some people live this way for decades is enough to 'scare me straight'.
QUOTE]
Jessieand me, I'm really impressed that you're happy with yourself and your decision. It's very inspiring to see. I just had to highlight this part of your post because it really hits home for me. I've been married for four years (together for 7) and some days I'm just terrified that I'm throwing time away waiting for him to get better. Realistically, I know I can't bank on that happening, so what am I doing? I feel like right now would be the best time to get out and save myself lots of heartache down the road. It's tough to stay strong and I admire you for doing so.
I need to quit worrying about making a decision! It's hard, though. It's damn hard wondering why you can't have a "normal" life and trying to stop yourself from wondering that.
QUOTE]
Jessieand me, I'm really impressed that you're happy with yourself and your decision. It's very inspiring to see. I just had to highlight this part of your post because it really hits home for me. I've been married for four years (together for 7) and some days I'm just terrified that I'm throwing time away waiting for him to get better. Realistically, I know I can't bank on that happening, so what am I doing? I feel like right now would be the best time to get out and save myself lots of heartache down the road. It's tough to stay strong and I admire you for doing so.
I need to quit worrying about making a decision! It's hard, though. It's damn hard wondering why you can't have a "normal" life and trying to stop yourself from wondering that.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Star's Hollow
Posts: 615
Whiplash -
I'm probably one of the people scaring people straight. I've been married to AH for 20 years. His drinking has been causing problems 15 of those years. Looking back, what a nightmare. DWI's, jail time, him staying out to all hours and not calling, lies, tricks, sneaking around. Searching his truck for evidence of an affair, counting beer cans, not talking to anybody about it because I was ashamed, long conversations reasoning with him, threatening to leave when I knew I wouldn't.
The difference between us is that I didn't have Al-Anon and I didn't have this board. I didn't have any idea that there was anything I could do. I didn't think that Al-Anon applied to me - he wasn't hitting me, he wasn't being mean, he wasn't wasting our money.
You, my dear, caught on much, much, much faster than me. You are learning the things that will help you to get better. If I had learned those things after being married for five years, how different my life would be today.
I'm just a late starter. I don't think that anybody who has really worked the program would have to go through 15 years of torture. Anyone who really works the program will either find a personal peace and stay or find a personal strength and get out.
I'm proud of you for trying. Don't waste time "waiting for him to get better" - I've done that. Use the time you have to MAKE yourself better and you'll know what to do.
Hugs - L
I'm probably one of the people scaring people straight. I've been married to AH for 20 years. His drinking has been causing problems 15 of those years. Looking back, what a nightmare. DWI's, jail time, him staying out to all hours and not calling, lies, tricks, sneaking around. Searching his truck for evidence of an affair, counting beer cans, not talking to anybody about it because I was ashamed, long conversations reasoning with him, threatening to leave when I knew I wouldn't.
The difference between us is that I didn't have Al-Anon and I didn't have this board. I didn't have any idea that there was anything I could do. I didn't think that Al-Anon applied to me - he wasn't hitting me, he wasn't being mean, he wasn't wasting our money.
You, my dear, caught on much, much, much faster than me. You are learning the things that will help you to get better. If I had learned those things after being married for five years, how different my life would be today.
I'm just a late starter. I don't think that anybody who has really worked the program would have to go through 15 years of torture. Anyone who really works the program will either find a personal peace and stay or find a personal strength and get out.
I'm proud of you for trying. Don't waste time "waiting for him to get better" - I've done that. Use the time you have to MAKE yourself better and you'll know what to do.
Hugs - L
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: out there some where
Posts: 35
Hi I have been married to my A for 9yrs, it wasnt until he had his heart attack in 97 that things went to hell in a hand basket real quick, he went on a 4yr binge. the stress that I had to deal with became more than I could bare,I began having panic attacks,severe depression, chest pains,you name it I was a walking mess, the thing was, I could take enough medication to make it stop.so instead of walking around like a drugged zombie I decided to get help. I started going to a counsler, I remember the first day, I was so scared cuz I had no idea what I was going to say, I guess my first thing I wanted to find out was WHY!!! do I keep picking these kind of people??? this isnt my first rodeo. After 2 yrs of therapy, tons of tears, even tho alcohol wasnt involved my parents were never there for us, the mental abuse my mother put me through should never be felt by any child. and I could never understand why my father never stopped her. so in looking for a partner I want a strong person,someone who I can depend on to be there for me,support me,and all that stuff, well the only strong person in my family was an abusive mother, so my concept of a good relationship is warped.If someone that is nice is attracted to me they just dont do anything for me. I have been able to forgive my parents I dont know that I could ever love them as I should but I can have a relationship with them. I am now 50yrs old I have raised my children now I just need to raise the child within me.and to realize there are good people in the world. I am not trying to blame my parents,but emotional abuse inflected on a child stays with you forever, to get past that the first thing you must do is forgive,or you will never grow, I have been working very hard to detach, and before I go into any relationship again I think I need to fix me first, sorry this is so long but just couldnt seem to stop I will find the pot of gold and be happy and I know all of you will too thanks for listening Debbie
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC (Jersey Girl transplant)
Posts: 676
Wow what a post. I too had so much to say, but it has already been said. I think I stay because I do love him and feel geninue love in return. I also feel the sadness of loving an adicted person, deep sadness.
Over the past two years I have seen tremendous change in myself. I have worked through so much, it is really a miracle. This gives me hope that he may make it too. I agree that you either find a way to cope or find the strength to leave. For now, for me I am coping, and I am happy.
I wish happiness for you whatever decision you make. Congrats again on the job.
Over the past two years I have seen tremendous change in myself. I have worked through so much, it is really a miracle. This gives me hope that he may make it too. I agree that you either find a way to cope or find the strength to leave. For now, for me I am coping, and I am happy.
I wish happiness for you whatever decision you make. Congrats again on the job.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by Rose56
I think I stay because I do love him and feel geninue love in return. I also feel the sadness of loving an adicted person, deep sadness.....
.....I agree that you either find a way to cope or find the strength to leave. For now, for me I am coping, and I am happy.
.....I agree that you either find a way to cope or find the strength to leave. For now, for me I am coping, and I am happy.
You hit the nail on the head Rose.
HugZ
Sandra
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