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I feel like crying, but I don't know why?

Old 06-12-2013, 05:53 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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((Liz))

I believe there is no timetable for the process of going thru the 4 A's

Awareness, Anger, Acceptance and Action ~

We become Aware of the situation, of our lives, of how we are, how they are and how life is at this very moment

We become Angry because of what we have tolerated, allowed, contributed to, and still participate in

We find our place in Acceptance in what has been, what we can't change, what will never change, and what needs to be changed

We seek the courage, wisdom and guidance from our HP to take Action to do the Next Right Thing for ourselves ~ the healthy recovery choices to make our lives Happy, Joyous and Free from the insanity.

For me, I went thru the four A's all in one day on some issues and then it took months on others ~
Deep breaths and ODAT ~ continue your path with your HP walking beside as to what is healthiest for you!

wishing you the best

PINK hugs!
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:35 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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(((((Liz)))))
Hugs to you. Now, more hugs.
Your pain is palpable in your posts. As this process unfolds for you and you post how things are going and your discoveries, I have admired your bravery.
Hang in there....as always, I am rooting for you
More hugs,
MamaKit
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:35 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Hi Liz, I'm so sorry you and what you are going through. ((((hugs))))

In my case I went through this because I was finally seeing my life as it really was and not how I wanted it to be. The masks were coming off and I was truly seeing my AW and myself as we really were and it was just so wrong.

It was also so right because it was that seeing and acceptance of reality as it was that allowed me to really start my recovery.

It was a painful path at times but the result is so worth it.

Your friend,
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:51 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Also, Liz--I think it is important to remember that, at all times, you have choices and you have power.

The catapillar and the butterfly....

dandylion
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:36 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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I remember feeling just like that. Ever been diagnosed with depression? I have, twice. Each time was right before I pulled the trigger on divorce. I didn't need ADs to treat my depression, I just needed to remove the source of my depression through the legal system.
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:54 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
I remember feeling just like that. Ever been diagnosed with depression? I have, twice. Each time was right before I pulled the trigger on divorce. I didn't need ADs to treat my depression, I just needed to remove the source of my depression through the legal system.
No, I haven't. I have been seeing a therapist and last week she nearly diagnosed me with PTSD because of the dog attack my dog and I suffered through almost 2 weeks ago now. I wonder if some of my emotions are related to what happened to me during that attack: the screaming I was doing, the crying and weeping on the ground as I held my bleeding puppy. We were covered in poop and pee and I had blood all over my clothes when we took him into the emergency vet. I remember my AH saying, "See, this is why I take him in the desert or to the park." I was walking the dog, on a leash, on a well lit street, and got attacked by 2 American bulldogs but how is his way always better? He takes the dog into the desert, at night, off leash, and that somehow would have prevented this attack from happening? UGH! Oh, and my dog was bit by a pitbull at the park about a month beforehand so how is the park any better, duh?

And, so I have been sitting here wondering just what the hell I married? Not whom, but what. He was gentle with the dog and he was supportive of me, as best as he could be as my own wounds healed but he always has these cutting remarks that make me realize that I will never measure up to his 'way' of doing things. Not that I care anymore, but I'm just tired of hearing about how much better his way is, LOL.

Many times my son will make comments and say: What dad said wasn't nice, what's his problem?


As for the 4 A's that Ms Pink mentioned: I feel like I'm between anger and acceptance in various places of my life. I have anger in certain ways, but then I feel acceptance depending on whether I'm looking at just myself or at my life on a broader scale. I know that, for now, I am not near action. And, I believe that it's Ok for me to journey on and see what my HP has in store for me.

I'm also planning on switching therapists as mine just told me she's dropping my insurance plan. This was a huge decision for me as I've been with this woman for over a year, but I had already been thinking of taking the summer off from counseling and just working my Al Anon stuff, attending more meetings, etc. I knew I could continue with her at a discounted rate but that would still be more than what I pay now.

Anyhoo, lots of changes going on. AH is currently depressed about his work situation: they are changing his commission plan and that always sends him into despair. He feels entitled to be paid more, he feels that they are unfair, and he gets angry and depressed. So, I am attending a convention on Friday and Saturday and I can't wait to get out of the house, LOL!
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:09 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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So, I am attending a convention on Friday and Saturday and I can't wait to get out of the house, LOL!
No one should ever feel that way about their home.

Your friend,
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:21 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
No one should ever feel that way about their home.

Your friend,
I've felt that way since childhood, I never knew anything different. I went from being uncomfortable in the same room with my dad, to being uncomfortable with my crazy college roommate for 3 years, to being uncomfortable with my AH. Seriously, when you don't know it can be different, you just don't know.
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:02 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Liz, I'm working on some stuff for my divorce and I have to go back through the last five or so years of emails and other documents to remember names and dates of things. I've been doing it most of the day today. Something I noticed: I can't tell you how many emails there are from me to my STBXAH that went unanswered. I sent him at least one a day, emails about everything from money to my excitement over what we were going to name the baby to serious things about what I needed from him (when I was in my "maybe letter writing will be more successful than talking" phase) to angry emails like when I started putting together all of his lies. You know what I noticed? He almost never wrote me back, and when we did talk about these subjects in person it was like pulling teeth.

I guess looking at all this I just felt sorry for my old self. Here are five years of me doing my best to look forward and have faith in my AH's sobriety, trying to share my joys and sorrows, and getting radio silence in response. Here I was having a totally one-sided relationship, like I was married to a houseplant or something. It breathed, it drank, and it sat in the living room, and I may have talked to it and been amused sometimes, but it never talked back, loved me, hugged me, or comforted me. It just wanted to sit there. I just chatted away acting like this is what relationships are, where I do all the talking, planning, nurturing, and caring, and it just sits there by the window.

And those were the GOOD times!

That's not counting all the times he was stomping all over my feelings, lying to me, or drinking heavily, trashing his health, calling me names, and emptying our bank account. There was correspondence about that too, me to him, screaming into a void.

The reason I'm sharing this is that this latest post of yours has weighed on me and I can't figure out why. I feel like there's something in you that doesn't believe you're worth having a mutual relationship -- or is scared even. I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has been there. But we know a couple of things about your husband now. As an alcoholic NPD, he will never provide for your emotional needs, no matter how beautiful, kind, faithful, giving, or sexually available you are. Have you really sat with that information yet? If so, why do you torture yourself going to a dry well looking for water? You're thirsty, right? I'm mixing a lot of metaphors here. You're screaming into the void. You're trying to have a relationship with a houseplant. You're going to the hardware store for bread. You're trying to have a relationship with someone who isn't interested in one, and getting exhausted, frustrated, and depressed over his lack of sincere interest. If he wasn't a drunk NPD, I'd be all, "He's just not that into you!" and "DTMFA!" Since this is SR, it's more like, "Why are you so into someone who will never reciprocate your feelings?"

I can't remember -- what did your lawyer say about your situation? What does your counselor say about all this?

At some point I think it's fine to accept that you're choosing to stay because you're too scared to do something else. But then you also have to accept that your frustration and exhaustion is also your choice. It sounds depressing, but it's actually empowering. You steer your own course. You're not just blowing in the wind.
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:07 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Yay for lizatola!

Seriously, when you don't know it can be different, you just don't know.
Yes, I know and I understand this very well. Your husband's response is just like something my father would say or my first husband.

"What are you crying/upset about? I told you what/how/should be done. My way."
Your punishment is to be traumatized and get the minimum amount of sympathy from me. My ex would probably talk at the dog within my earshot about how I let the dog get hurt!!!

More concerned that I "got it" because their way was better.
The trauma was a lesson for me to listen to them better.
(too many cuss words and still not enough for the anger)

And, so I have been sitting here wondering just what the hell I married? Not whom, but what.
Wow, that is a tough awareness to come to your mind.
Going to the conference (AlAnon?) you could soak up all the positive get healthy energy you can.


Liz, I do understand. I am learning there is a better way.
I have been in this apartment for 3 years.
Just hung up one of my many paintings. Like I might stay a while.
LOL
I have always lived like I just got here.
Never felt "at home". Even in my own home.
More awareness for me.
Action plan:
Make my apartment my home.
It is mine, to have it look as I please and do what I please (within the law ).

I know that, for now, I am not near action. And, I believe that it's Ok for me to journey on and see what my HP has in store for me.
I hear you. You have had a big revelation lately. It is certainly okay to do your program your way. And, I realized that sometimes "program" for me means "life".

Sending peace and serenity to you liz,

Beth

Last edited by wicked; 06-12-2013 at 01:09 PM. Reason: their, there, they're all the same right?
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:36 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Florence View Post
Liz, I'm working on some stuff for my divorce and I have to go back through the last five or so years of emails and other documents to remember names and dates of things. I've been doing it most of the day today. Something I noticed: I can't tell you how many emails there are from me to my STBXAH that went unanswered. I sent him at least one a day, emails about everything from money to my excitement over what we were going to name the baby to serious things about what I needed from him (when I was in my "maybe letter writing will be more successful than talking" phase) to angry emails like when I started putting together all of his lies. You know what I noticed? He almost never wrote me back, and when we did talk about these subjects in person it was like pulling teeth.

I guess looking at all this I just felt sorry for my old self. Here are five years of me doing my best to look forward and have faith in my AH's sobriety, trying to share my joys and sorrows, and getting radio silence in response. Here I was having a totally one-sided relationship, like I was married to a houseplant or something. It breathed, it drank, and it sat in the living room, and I may have talked to it and been amused sometimes, but it never talked back, loved me, hugged me, or comforted me. It just wanted to sit there. I just chatted away acting like this is what relationships are, where I do all the talking, planning, nurturing, and caring, and it just sits there by the window.

And those were the GOOD times!

That's not counting all the times he was stomping all over my feelings, lying to me, or drinking heavily, trashing his health, calling me names, and emptying our bank account. There was correspondence about that too, me to him, screaming into a void.

The reason I'm sharing this is that this latest post of yours has weighed on me and I can't figure out why. I feel like there's something in you that doesn't believe you're worth having a mutual relationship -- or is scared even. I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has been there. But we know a couple of things about your husband now. As an alcoholic NPD, he will never provide for your emotional needs, no matter how beautiful, kind, faithful, giving, or sexually available you are. Have you really sat with that information yet? If so, why do you torture yourself going to a dry well looking for water? You're thirsty, right? I'm mixing a lot of metaphors here. You're screaming into the void. You're trying to have a relationship with a houseplant. You're going to the hardware store for bread. You're trying to have a relationship with someone who isn't interested in one, and getting exhausted, frustrated, and depressed over his lack of sincere interest. If he wasn't a drunk NPD, I'd be all, "He's just not that into you!" and "DTMFA!" Since this is SR, it's more like, "Why are you so into someone who will never reciprocate your feelings?"

I can't remember -- what did your lawyer say about your situation? What does your counselor say about all this?

At some point I think it's fine to accept that you're choosing to stay because you're too scared to do something else. But then you also have to accept that your frustration and exhaustion is also your choice. It sounds depressing, but it's actually empowering. You steer your own course. You're not just blowing in the wind.
^^^^^WOW.....thank you for this post, Florence. It puts a lot of things into perspective for me, as well as giving me some major food for thought.
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:44 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Liz, I believe that feeling is coming from a soul that is crying out to be free. The core of yourself crying to be realized. A cry coming from deep within the self---where the closest connection to the universe exists.

The soul--our very essence of life wants to live.

dandylion
i am wondering if now you see for what it really is...and your starting to GRIEVE everything, until the next stage form of the 4 A's...AWARENESS< ANGER>ACCEPTENCE (which is where you are, and grieving it...) then is ACTION...

you have lots of time to prepare....
~huggles~

here is: Cocoon and the Butterflyhttp://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...utterfuly.html
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:59 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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I had never heard it as 4As...but three Awareness, Acceptance, Action.

Somehow that fourth one of anger is REALLY normalizing for me, and matches my experience. Thanks for this post.
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:07 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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The acceptance stage for me meant gut-wrenching sobs, and about a week of just random crying. Then the action, i started moving stuff to my sister's house and job hunting.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:58 AM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Liz,
My heart goes out to you. It really does because I know how painful it is to open your eyes one day and actually SEE how unhealthy and disfunctional your marriage, your life, and your home have become. Its like you see flashes of it as the years go on but one day it just seems to come into full view and it can be very painful and scary to take it all in at once. Sounds like your having a real moment of painful clarity.

The thing is...this is a moment of opportunity and change for you. I'm so glad you are going to al anon and that you have a good sponsor. Al anon literally gave me a roadmap out of the muck that was my life. Step four was a true turning point for me. It can be painful to really and truly admit to yourself that you have been an active and willing participant in the insanity. Getting to the root of WHY you participated like this and accepted unacceptable behavior is the key to changing your behavior and thinking patterns and creating a NEW pathh for yourself.

Just one last thought...you say you still love your AH. You know, I still love my exah. Or I guess I still love the man I married. I'm not sure that he actuallly exists anymore. I don't know if he has completely disappeared due to his alcholism and other mental health issues or whether he still exists underneathh layers of paranoia, resentment, self-pity and only God knows what else. Just because you have feelings of love towards him doesnt' mean you still love him as a husband and life partner. Just something to think about. You don't have to reach the stage of hating him to make changes. You are a compassionate woman and you might never reach that level with him...but you owe at least as much compasssion to yourself.

Keep searching.
You're on the path to recovery whether you see it or not.

Hugs and support...
Mary
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:02 AM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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You said he drove your car illegally. Has he lost his license because of a DUI/DWI?

If he's driving illegally and gets involved in an accident and he's at fault, do you realize that you could both be sued and lose everything you own?

I'm not trying to be mean, but I know a family this happened to.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:18 AM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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liz, kudzujean has a good point about him driving and drinking. My x did this all the time where I would hide keys all the time thinking he won't find them and be able to drive but even in his drunken state he managed to find keys and drive, ugh. I even would call the police and tell them he's driving drunk, fearing all the time he would kill someone. This was one of many reasons I divorced him I couldn't be a partner in his craziness anymore and I pray that you won't be either.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:40 AM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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Seriously, when you don't know it can be different, you just don't know.

but now you know. to say "well I've always been like this" is a cop out, an excuse...same one used by addicts. just can't help myself. but WE CAN help ourselves, we CAN change.

it's time to take the focus OFF him. you stared at and contemplated who this person is you married for a long long time now. you've analyzed HIS issues in depth, up to and including HIS new diagnosis of NPD. and what had ANY of that done for YOU? nada.

our growth comes when we realize THEY are not our problem WE are our problem. not our marriage, not our partner, not our financial status, not even our family of origin. we are no longer children subjected to and at the mercy of others. we are adults, and how we our lives NOW is on US.

we either see that as a chore and too much work, OR we find that empowering and surge ahead.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:52 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
but he always has these cutting remarks that make me realize that I will never measure up to his 'way' of doing things. Not that I care anymore, but I'm just tired of hearing about how much better his way is, LOL.
Liza dear -

This is very common for A's. They'll never admit it, but their self esteem is lower than low. In order for them to feel better about themselves, they cut us down. They seem compelled to feel superior, no matter the cost, and they don't even see the cost to us. Or if they do, they cover it up with more superiority. They are in self preservation mode in their world of self destruction. How crazy is that?

This is why it's so important for you to take care of YOU. For you to know that you are wonderful, and that the A is sick. For you to detach your own, true self from what the A says you are. It's not easy when you're constantly being barraged by verbal abuse. And I do believe this is verbal abuse. It takes constant vigilance to care for yourself in the midst of always being told you're inferior by someone you once trusted as your lifelong love. It can be done, and it's so worth it.

For me, counseling helps. Wow did I go from low self esteem to understanding and feeling self worth. Oh there's still so much more to go, but it's made a tremendous difference. An exercise of incredible value.

It sounds as though you're on that path, too. Go Liza!
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:43 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post
Seriously, when you don't know it can be different, you just don't know.

but now you know. to say "well I've always been like this" is a cop out, an excuse...same one used by addicts. just can't help myself. but WE CAN help ourselves, we CAN change.

it's time to take the focus OFF him. you stared at and contemplated who this person is you married for a long long time now. you've analyzed HIS issues in depth, up to and including HIS new diagnosis of NPD. and what had ANY of that done for YOU? nada.

our growth comes when we realize THEY are not our problem WE are our problem. not our marriage, not our partner, not our financial status, not even our family of origin. we are no longer children subjected to and at the mercy of others. we are adults, and how we our lives NOW is on US.

we either see that as a chore and too much work, OR we find that empowering and surge ahead.
Originally Posted by kudzujean View Post
You said he drove your car illegally. Has he lost his license because of a DUI/DWI?

If he's driving illegally and gets involved in an accident and he's at fault, do you realize that you could both be sued and lose everything you own?

I'm not trying to be mean, but I know a family this happened to.
I know the risks, I told him I went to a lawyer to learn the risks to ME and what I'm risking and how I felt about that. Actually, I've been a broken record. He doesn't care about the risk. He is a loving man, who has a disease and mental health issues to boot, and those things get mixed in with what I see with compassion on certain days. SO, inevitably I go from feeling compassion for him to feeling rage depending on how I perceive the risks he's taking that day.

Anvil talked about what I'm doing for me. I am working on my step 6 with my sponsor. Learning more and more about my own defects of character and how I'm not so great, either, LOL. Asking God to remove those defects is a truly humbling experience. A good friend in Al Anon recently told me that some of her defects were rewarding for her: self righteousness, dishonesty, etc. I see that in myself. Like when I want revenge and I contrive a plan for getting revenge but then I remind myself that I'm not God and I need to let things be. It's been very eye opening to learn that I have a long way to go. The biggest blessing I've received lately is that I am learning more about what makes me tick, what I don't like about myself, and taking those steps to ask God to remove them from me. I talked last night at a meeting about my own self-righteousness. That was huge for me to even recognize that in myself.

I do come on here and vent about my AH or to process my thinking about what he's doing and how I feel about it. Yet, I know that I am working a good Al Anon program, I'm going to 2-3 meetings a week, I journal daily, and I pray as much as a I can asking HP to show me my path and give me peace on my journey along with praying for my process in the steps. I have hope for MY future and I think that's why I am so patient. I've seen others come out on the other side, years of sitting on the fence over, some with intact marriages both in recovery, some single and loving it, and some remarried in new relationships which are healthy and stable and not full of drama.

I have learned that I thrive on drama. I have to stop myself from creating my own drama and that was HUGE for me this year. I step back, I duck, I walk away, I don't engage. That, in itself, was very big for me this past year. I did learn that I have choices, and these were small steps of stepping away and choosing a healthier way.
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