Wavy

Yesterday I discovered the extent of the financial damage that ABFs drinking has done us. I've spoken to various people about my options and I know the sensible thing to do. Cut all joint financial ties with him ASAP. This means moving out so that we don't have a joint lease and joint bills and closing the joint account so that any (more) debt he runs up will be his alone and not jointly liable.

*queue whine* But I don't want to. I'm not ready to leave yet, I still enjoy his company. I was working myself up to leaving but I just wasn't ready for it to be this soon. I have 5 days to decide whether or not to give notice on our house before it auto-renews for another month.

This is all so overwhelming and so much pressure to decide NOW.

I know the sensible thing to do, that will protect me and be best for me all round. But my heart is saying "I love him', "I don't want to leave him", "it will hurt so much". How do you make yourself do the rational thing when you have so many irrational feelings?

SparkleKitty

We tend to get boxed into black and white thinking. What I read here is that protecting yourself financially MUST EQUAL leaving the relationship. Why? Is there no middle ground? Can you not separate your finances and your living situation but still be in a relationship? Lots of people are together but don't live together. I know many married couples who don't intertwine their finances. This is because they have determined that that is what it takes to make their relationship work. They have determined this together, the way people in healthy relationships make decisions.

And if the answer is that there is no middle ground, because HE would not want the relationship on any other terms, then what is HE going to do to protect you financially? Is that onus not on him? I know you are overwhelmed and that you love him. But loving him and being with him DOES NOT HAVE TO COME AT THE COST OF YOUR FINANCIAL SECURITY. PLEASE take care of yourself.

Wavy

Moving out doesn't have to mean breaking up, but it does mean not having him around and missing him and hurting him. And I think it will be damaging to our relationship for me to put that barrier in place. It will hurt him for me to push away from us like that. I know physically leaving does not have to mean leaving the relationship but even that thought of physically leaving is very very painful because it means stepping away from him when I want to be close to him.

SparkleKitty

I understand. But please consider than in exchanging for avoiding hurting him, you are allowing him to continue to hurt you. A relationship is give and take. You are giving a great deal, and he is taking a great deal. When is it his turn to give? When is it his turn to be concerned about the damage he is doing to you?

Wavy, you deserve better. You deserve respect. Please read the thread that was recently posted about couple bubbles:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ired-love.html

There is a lot in here about how relationships can function in a healthy and respectful way, where everyone's needs are met and everyone is safe. You deserve this.

Wavy

Thanks SparkleKitty. I'm sorry it has taken me a while to respond. I did read what you wrote at the time, I've just been feeling all over the place and not really able to take anything in.

As an update I decided I was not in a position to make any decisions, seemingly healthy or otherwise, while I was so confused and in such turmoil, so for the moment I have mostly done the 'don't just do something, stand there' thing and given myself a bit of space to calm down and allow HP to show me the solution that's right for me.

I've gone to stay with a relative for about a week and its lovely and peaceful here. So quiet, you can hear the birds!! No blaring tele or music or guitar or in your face rants! I'm feeling calmer away from the mad house. I've passed the deadline to move out this month, but that's OK, I'm not ready for that decision yet.

I've not even really wanted to speak to ABF while I've been away. We've exchanged brief texts of the 'morning' and 'goodnight' variety and skyped once, but the call didn't go very well once I brought up that I was upset that he had gone out drinking again less than 12 hours after I left. I thought I would miss him more and that being away would be harder, but honestly, the peace is wonderful!

I have to go back tomorrow and I'm apprehensive about it and not terribly looking forward to it. I'm thinking of asking my relative if I can return here tuesday after I've completed the commitments I have in my own town. It feels safe here. ABF won't like it and it remains to be seen if I can remain resolute in the face of his persuasion, something I am not very good at yet.

I attended an Al-Anon meeting while I've been away from my home group, which as usual made me feel miles better. Its funny how much smaller and less pressing the issues seems in this peace and quiet compare to around ABF. Its like he has a spell over me and my sense goes out the window around him, truly I feel now I understand the characterisation of codependence as being addicted to an addict - I know the sensible things to do, but one dose of him and all logic is gone.

FeelingGreat

Hi Wavy, speaking only for myself, I would never never let anyone, no matter how much I loved them, come between me and financial security. I'm not talking rich, or even well off, but the feeling of control over what I earn, what I save and what I spend. The thought of someone else squandering what I have worked hard for is my deal breaker.
I assume I'm a lot older than you. I see friends nearing retirement who at different times had more or earned more than me struggling financially because their families bled them dry rather than stand on their own 2 feet. Please think hard about your future, and how much you value your efforts.

Wavy

Thing is FeelingGreat at the moment I'm dependant financially on him, so he's not squandering away my hard work, but he has violated the agreements we'd made together about our budget. We have at various time supported each other financially, but despite agreeing together that he would support us short term while I finish my studies he seems to have some resentment about it and in a small part feels justified in spending the money because its 'his' (I wonder if he will see the debts he's run up as his too??), when we have always approached money situations as 'ours'. That is one of the things that hurts, its another betrayal of mutual agreements. There were other ways to approach it if he wasn't happy with the situation any more.

LexieCat

Glad you got the breather, Wavy, and keep remembering how peaceful life can be away from the chaos. I know that no matter what challenges and frustrations I ran into being on my own, remembering the alternative of trying to deal with them while living with an alcoholic was a constant source of gratitude.

I still cared for my alcoholic when I left him. Still do, in fact--but I'm much happier and more peaceful not knowing what he is doing to continue to destroy his own life. He isn't affecting mine any longer.

AnonK

I'll tell you, it was hell when my AXBF supported me financially. Any time he snapped, it was "I'm taking care of you, not the other way around". I got tired of being told I didn't matter because I didn't make as much money.

Is there any way you can get a job while you're in school, even if it's part-time? It won't make a world of difference, but every little bit helps. Or maybe it can even become your secret emergency stash; should you choose to remove yourself from the situation.

Remember the peace you felt when visiting your relative... you could have that 24/7. It's ready and waiting for you!

Wavy

He wasn't resentful at first, because I would be getting a reasonably well paid job afterwards, which would make up for it. But because its taken me longer than I thought to finish my studies he has been supporting us longer than he thought. I'm really struggling to finish and the situation at home is not helping - I struggle to concentrate and am constantly exhausted, plus I think I'm suffering from depression again. I'm going to see what my options are for dealing with the depression this week, which will hopefully help.

I am going to be looking for part time work, but I'm worried that I won't be able to cope with the extra commitments. I feel just about as thinly spread as I can go right now.

He is resentful of me depending on him - but also doesn't want to split the finances, even tho that would leave him better off. I'm confused!

Being resentful isn't the whole story tho, that's not the only reason he spent the money. He said he knew he was over spending and that it was getting out of control but just ignored it I guess and let it eat at him subconsciously instead. When I confronted him was a wake up call, but obviously not enough since he still went out this week (claims he only spent £3 - hmmm, yeah right!).

fluffyflea

Why don,t you take little steps rather than a huge step?

LexieCat

All I see here from him are excuses and blame-shifting. Typical alcoholic behavior, IOW.

You don't have to wait until the financial "score" is "even." I know a relationship isn't governed by legal principles (at least not until people get divorced or the court otherwise has to get involve), but in contract law (which I vaguely remember from my 30-y/o legal education), when one party breaches the agreement, the agreement no longer exists, and the other party is no longer bound. If you honestly feel you owe him money (and I would be brutally honest about this because it sounds as if everything was intended as a joint effort), you can pay him back when you are making money.

He doesn't want to separate the finances because he can hold "I'm supporting you" over your head. You see that, don't you? That it has become not a team effort, but a means of control? As long as he can keep you convinced that you "owe" him, he is counting on your not taking action to free yourself.

It's like indentured servitude--you owe him until the debt is paid, but he is going to make sure the debt never is. Think about that--hard.

SoloMio

I wish there was a "Thank you SO MUCH" button--I would have clicked on it for most of the posts here. I find myself in that situation, and the last seven years have been a major screw-up on my part in terms of taking stupid financial risks for the benefit of loved ones and to my detriment.

I was intimidated into cosigning a loan for AH back in 2006 for his business. He had relapsed in 2004, and he was starting to see his business decline. I cosigned--despite my therapist begging me not to. He stopped being able to pay about two years later, and I've been holding the bag ever since. I've had countless discussions with him about contributing to the best of his ability... that I feel all alone shouldering his obligations.. and pointing out that he has done nothing to show me that he cares at all about paying back or contributing to the debt. That to him "What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine." Cost of that business co-signature: $140,000.

In 2007, there was an opportunity for his mother to come and buy the house next door which was being put up in a foreclosure sale. I did love my MIL, so I was totally fine with getting her down here. BUT we decided to cash out her paid of house to put us in a good position for winning the foreclosure. I thought selling her house would be a cinch--she's in a very hot area. So I cosigned the mortgage papers with her, and she blatantly told me at the time, "Now remember, I don't have any money to pay this mortgage." I told her that was OK, I could do it for a couple of months. Well, fast forward six years and we're just closing on the sale of that house THIS WEEK. The recession kicked in, and to make a LOOONNGG story short, cost TO ME of making that decision--$194,000.

Now, AH has no money, no pension, no job prospects. He has half the house next door (MIL died in 2010) which he is trying, again, to get me to sign a mortgage for so he can buy his brother out. He didn't get at all why I would even consider refusing another venture with him.

I know how you feel, though. I have the same "weakness" for wanting to stay with him, or at least finding it hard to leave. I did leave once for six weeks, and life was very sane and peaceful. People would say, why are you still with him, and I'm still trying to figure that out, and it's probably for the same reason that alcoholics go back for the drink and drug addicts go back for the hit.

I'm going to keep rereading what SparkleKitty and Feeling Great said. Maybe every day.

I wish you luck in your decision. Sorry for the long winded "all about me" post, but I relate so strongly to your situation and I wanted to show you how bad it CAN get if you take your eyes off of YOU. I do agree it doesn't have to be all or nothing, as long as you separate your joint finances completely (I at least have done that much) and also establish VERY strong boundaries to protect yourself and get used to saying NO.

sunnshinegirl

Wavy, I'll share my experiences. I support us and he spends a lot of money and it got worse over the years. I always thought I could get a handle on it and each time he made a purchase, I thought that would be enough but it never was and he always kept pushing. I finally found myself in a situation where I wouldn't be able to take care of myself in my senior years (I'm almost there) and would probably end up on the street broke and that combined with general unhappiness made me see an attorney. I learned my financial options and although I didn't have the courage to leave yet, I did cut the financial ties to take care of myself. It was the best thing I ever did and after I did that I realized I couldn't live with everything else. My heart goes out to you.

Wavy

Thanks SoloMio and sunnshinegirl for sharing your experiences, it does make me feel less alone and more hopeful. LexieCat what you've written, although hard to hear has given me food for thought, thank you for your direct words.

I have to go home in a few hours and see him. I'm feeling a bit anxious. I am expecting the 'love bombing' part of the cycle and know I cannot reciprocate his affection at this time. (And at the same time realise expectations are future resentments and that he may not be as nice to me as I expect when I get back) He seems to have enjoyed his time alone and while I wouldn't say I've enjoyed my time away I'm certainly grateful for the peace I've felt here. I don't think we are as so very totally necessary for each others existence as we once felt!

Wavy

Seeing him yesterday wasn't too bad. He was all lovely dovey like I expected and I just felt really distant, being home was weird, but it was lovely to see my cats!

Today I checked the bank and he spent some more money. Not a lot, but enough to show me that he still thinks its ok to buy stuff for himself when we have not enough money to last out the month. I'm so angry. Half at myself for believing he had the message and half at him for him not! Argh!

I told him that was it and I wanted to separate the finances. He was angry. He said that meant I now own him rent for all the time I haven't been bringing income in and I said that wasn't what we had agreed and that it was him that violated the agreement, not me. I would pay rent from now on (tho god knows where I'll get the money from, but that's my problem not his). Then in his horrible commanding tone said "silence" because we were both trying to talk at once. He got silence - I hung up the phone!

Ergh. Today was going quite well, I've got more work done today than I have for ages and now I just feel terrible again. I feel bad for not controlling my anger and for letting him get under my skin and for even getting in this position in the first place!

LexieCat

Wouldn't it be smarter/more peaceful to put that money he is demanding toward a place of your OWN? Or heck, even sharing a space with someone else. It seems like you are both going to keep feeling angry and resentful with the situation as it is, whether you pool your finances or not. Sounds rather unpleasant.

Wavy

Well I'm committed to one more months rent, then after that, yes it may be better to put the money towards somewhere else. He has subsequently text me to say he thinks that separating the finances is a good idea as long as we are sensible about it, which is good news.

I went to see my counsellor this afternoon and realised that part of my anger at myself comes from all the progress I've made. I've come from a point of not knowing any options (not knowing which way was up if I'm honest!) to being able to see the healthiest choices for myself and how best to protect myself, but still feeling compelled to make the choices that put myself at risk. It causes a frustration in me that wasn't there before of seeing myself know the safe thing to do (not safe emotionally, safe realistically!), but not doing it.

I'm trying to remember progress not perfection. It is progress I can see those options even if I can't always take them. But it is frustrating!