"Wired For Love"
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
"Wired For Love"
Hello Everyone,
Brief recap on my story: This time last year my husband was in a 30 day rehab center. He went following an intervention, and shortly after getting home, he returned to drinking.
As per terms of my boundary, the 3 children and I moved out (he refused to leave) and I filed for divorce. We are still working out the terms of the divorce but things are a thousand times better for me and the children. He continues to spiral downward, however. He has lost many clients, about to lose his house, and has only supervised visitation with the children, etc.
I don't post often, but I have benefited enormously from all the wisdom and experience that I read here. I thought I'd share a great read about relationships, called "Wired for Love" by Stan Tatkin. It has really helped me understand who I am (how I "attach") and what I should have expected from a healthy relationship with a husband. And also what I will work to create when I am ready for a partner again.
The premise of the book is that couples need to create a "couple bubble" that is all about security. It examines how the other person "attaches", your own attachment style, and how partners can use that knowledge to successfully create a life together where you both feel safe, supported, and ultimately healthy and thriving. The goal is to relieve each others' stress and worry. Seems like the opposite of living with an alcoholic, no?
To quote the book:
"The couple bubble is a term I like to use to describe the mutually constructed membrane, cocoon, or womb that holds a couple together and protects each partner from outside elements [I consider addiction an "outside element"]. A couple bubble is an intimate environment that the partners create and sustain together that implicitly guarantees such things as:
--I will never leave you
--I will never frighten you purposefully
--When you are in distress, I will relieve you, even when I'm the one who is causing the distress
--Our relationship is more important than my need to be right, your performance, your appearance, what other people think or want, or any other competing value [like getting high]
--You will be the first to hear about anything, not the second, third, or fourth person I tell"
I keep reminding myself that this is not wishful thinking! These relationships really do exist. Millions and millions of them. Just not with alcoholics.
The book does not address addiction in depth, but in my opinion, addiction punctures the couple bubble in every way, because it puts using/being high ahead of making your partner feel secure. How many of us have been "left, frightened, or distressed" repeatedly by our alcoholic who isn't willing to address or change that behavior? If you have, then you cannot possibly feel secure in that relationship. If that is what happened in your childhood, then it feels familiar but it still isn't safe and secure or loving.
In my opinion, a relationship that requires detachment is the opposite of a "couple bubble." It requires finding that safe and secure feeling from lots of other places, but never from one's alcoholic spouse. What detachment, therapy, and Al-anon can do, perhaps, is rewire your brain so that you become a "securely attached" partner, referred to in the book as an "anchor". These people are: "secure as individuals, willing to commit and fully share with another, generally happy people, adapt easily to the needs of the moment."
I personally want that safe and secure feeling from the man in my life and want to provide it for him as well. I am very single and far from "relationship material" at the moment, but if/when that happens, I will certainly utilize this strategies in this book.
As a side note, "Wired for Love" also helps me understand how important that secure bubble is for my CHILDREN. Want your kids to have a loving, secure marriage when they grow up? It sure helps to show them loving, secure, gentle attachment from infancy. For me, eliminating the AH from our "bubble" was the only way for them to experience true safe, secure, and gentle attachment without repeated punctures by a grown man putting his fist through a wall.
I hope this helps someone out there in cyberland. I am eternally grateful to everyone who posts on this site, from the newbies to the experienced, it all helps so much.
Peace!
Brief recap on my story: This time last year my husband was in a 30 day rehab center. He went following an intervention, and shortly after getting home, he returned to drinking.
As per terms of my boundary, the 3 children and I moved out (he refused to leave) and I filed for divorce. We are still working out the terms of the divorce but things are a thousand times better for me and the children. He continues to spiral downward, however. He has lost many clients, about to lose his house, and has only supervised visitation with the children, etc.
I don't post often, but I have benefited enormously from all the wisdom and experience that I read here. I thought I'd share a great read about relationships, called "Wired for Love" by Stan Tatkin. It has really helped me understand who I am (how I "attach") and what I should have expected from a healthy relationship with a husband. And also what I will work to create when I am ready for a partner again.
The premise of the book is that couples need to create a "couple bubble" that is all about security. It examines how the other person "attaches", your own attachment style, and how partners can use that knowledge to successfully create a life together where you both feel safe, supported, and ultimately healthy and thriving. The goal is to relieve each others' stress and worry. Seems like the opposite of living with an alcoholic, no?
To quote the book:
"The couple bubble is a term I like to use to describe the mutually constructed membrane, cocoon, or womb that holds a couple together and protects each partner from outside elements [I consider addiction an "outside element"]. A couple bubble is an intimate environment that the partners create and sustain together that implicitly guarantees such things as:
--I will never leave you
--I will never frighten you purposefully
--When you are in distress, I will relieve you, even when I'm the one who is causing the distress
--Our relationship is more important than my need to be right, your performance, your appearance, what other people think or want, or any other competing value [like getting high]
--You will be the first to hear about anything, not the second, third, or fourth person I tell"
I keep reminding myself that this is not wishful thinking! These relationships really do exist. Millions and millions of them. Just not with alcoholics.
The book does not address addiction in depth, but in my opinion, addiction punctures the couple bubble in every way, because it puts using/being high ahead of making your partner feel secure. How many of us have been "left, frightened, or distressed" repeatedly by our alcoholic who isn't willing to address or change that behavior? If you have, then you cannot possibly feel secure in that relationship. If that is what happened in your childhood, then it feels familiar but it still isn't safe and secure or loving.
In my opinion, a relationship that requires detachment is the opposite of a "couple bubble." It requires finding that safe and secure feeling from lots of other places, but never from one's alcoholic spouse. What detachment, therapy, and Al-anon can do, perhaps, is rewire your brain so that you become a "securely attached" partner, referred to in the book as an "anchor". These people are: "secure as individuals, willing to commit and fully share with another, generally happy people, adapt easily to the needs of the moment."
I personally want that safe and secure feeling from the man in my life and want to provide it for him as well. I am very single and far from "relationship material" at the moment, but if/when that happens, I will certainly utilize this strategies in this book.
As a side note, "Wired for Love" also helps me understand how important that secure bubble is for my CHILDREN. Want your kids to have a loving, secure marriage when they grow up? It sure helps to show them loving, secure, gentle attachment from infancy. For me, eliminating the AH from our "bubble" was the only way for them to experience true safe, secure, and gentle attachment without repeated punctures by a grown man putting his fist through a wall.
I hope this helps someone out there in cyberland. I am eternally grateful to everyone who posts on this site, from the newbies to the experienced, it all helps so much.
Peace!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
This is such an important post. For so many years I did not understand what a healthy relationship LOOKED like. I read posts every day that make it clear the poster also does not know what one looks like.
I had to get healthy myself before I could attract a healthy relationship -- and by that time, I already had the healthiest one I could hope for -- with ME!
I had to get healthy myself before I could attract a healthy relationship -- and by that time, I already had the healthiest one I could hope for -- with ME!
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
woooowwwww -- Thanks B.
Help me see if I am understanding this correctly?
There is no way that an A/A/A etc., could possibly be this.
unless MAYBE they were in a very Rigorously Honest (most are not, from what I see) AA/12 step program?
Might as well expect a cat to drive a car?
=============
Been amusing myself with some old Tunsis the Driving Cat Video clips.
Help me see if I am understanding this correctly?
There is no way that an A/A/A etc., could possibly be this.
unless MAYBE they were in a very Rigorously Honest (most are not, from what I see) AA/12 step program?
Might as well expect a cat to drive a car?
=============
Been amusing myself with some old Tunsis the Driving Cat Video clips.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 47
I'm starting to think we all may be psychically linked. Every time a certain topic starts running through my mind, someone here posts about it! I've been thinking I need to look for a book like this one. While I have found reading about codependency and addiction very helpful, those tend to focus more on what a relationship shouldn't look like. I feel like I'm getting a much better grasp on that, but what the heck should it look like? Thanks for sharing!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Hammer, in my case, I was definitely asking the cat to drive the car! After reading that book, it became clear to me that all the "drama" of addiction (to note your signature quote), even if it is just self-destructive withdrawal, creates anxiety and insecurity for both partners. That insecurity and anxiousness engages the more primitive, self-protective, and warring parts of our brains. Too much warring/fighting/self-protection and we can no longer foster a real love with our partner. We may feel duty & obligation, yes--but real intimacy gets strangled. The book discusses being available for your partner 24/7, because that fosters a really deep sense of security, as do little rituals around bedtime and waking, none of which are possibilities with an active A or one in pretend recovery.
Mrs Darcy, I too think that the real goal is being healthy and thriving, not just avoiding the bad old patterns. When I started looking at it that way, I began to really see mine and other people's motivations a lot more clearly.
Mrs Darcy, I too think that the real goal is being healthy and thriving, not just avoiding the bad old patterns. When I started looking at it that way, I began to really see mine and other people's motivations a lot more clearly.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by MrsDarcy 
I'm starting to think we all may be psychically linked. Every time a certain topic starts running through my mind, someone here posts about it! I've been thinking I need to look for a book like this one. While I have found reading about codependency and addiction very helpful, those tend to focus more on what a relationship shouldn't look like. I feel like I'm getting a much better grasp on that, but what the heck should it look like? Thanks for sharing!
Defining what we want by studying what we do not want is pretty limiting.
After discussing this in a sort of "open" Alanon group (sort of a Crosstalk group), someone helped me define what I was trying to say as "To Love and Be Loved." I put that at the Top of my "Happyland" List. But this is really pointing towards what that that REALLY means.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by BtheChange
Hammer, in my case, I was definitely asking the cat to drive the car!
Fortunately in the SNL version, they always report that no one was harmed.
However, in Real Life -- your mileage may vary.
or one in pretend recovery.
You nailed what we are living.
I am just flat-out in love with that cat!!!!Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Okay, turned Tunsis off long enough to study this a bit.
Wired For Love, by Stan Tatkin
Book Intro >>>
http://www.wiredforlove.org/assets/w...love-intro.pdf
Book Chapter 1 >>>
http://www.wiredforlove.org/assets/w...r-love-ch1.pdf
===============
You are right, B. This sounds like great stuff.
But you are also very correct -- no idea how to apply this if one partner were an Addict/Alcoholic/etc., or Mental Ill, or as is very often the case -- both.
Guess I will dig deeper.
Wired For Love, by Stan Tatkin
Book Intro >>>
http://www.wiredforlove.org/assets/w...love-intro.pdf
Book Chapter 1 >>>
http://www.wiredforlove.org/assets/w...r-love-ch1.pdf
===============
You are right, B. This sounds like great stuff.
But you are also very correct -- no idea how to apply this if one partner were an Addict/Alcoholic/etc., or Mental Ill, or as is very often the case -- both.
Guess I will dig deeper.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Well, sadly, I have heard that most marriage counselors won't do couples therapy with an alcoholic because even the professionals don't know how to apply it either. I hope that doesn't sound glib, I just seem to have lost all sympathy for the devil (the devil being addiction itself, not those afflicted by it). I am hoping to apply this info to a future relationship with a non-addict. It also helped me do a post mortem on my marriage.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
I don't think ANY discussion of how to have a successful healthy relationship is valid if both partners aren't on the same page, or at the very least reading out of the same book, just in different chapters. if one partner is in active addiction, they are simply incapable of being fully present and fully willing. or if they have some untreated mental defect.
I agree with some of the premise stated in the book....for me love is creating a safe space for the other to grow. notice that does not say the other person MUST grow, only that if you so wish, I will gladly share with you the life I WISH to lead, if you so care to join me.
the other remains an individual. and the individual retains autonomy. how can anyone promise forever? if I commit to never leaving ever, then how many possible routes to my own life's path do I just shut off? my life may be here now, but MY life may call me to something else someday. or yours. you may decide at 50 or 75 that your life's calling is to serve the underprivileged, and join the Peace Corp. I may someday no longer wish to be here, doing THIS.
when hank and I hooked up, he was on his way to Alaska. he'd bailed on Wisconsin, trying to escape crack, and the farthest point west and away from there was Alaska. so the was the plan....he would at some time be leaving (we live in Seattle). that meant there were no chains, ropes, hooks or forever commitments, there was only NOW. today, probably tomorrow, but I might need help packing.
here we are 11 years later....and we are still very much in the NOW, and most likely, at least, tomorrow. we have more stuff that would take more time to pack. we share a mortgage that would be harder to extricate from. we agreed early on to do this as long as it was fun. if for either person it became a chore or we just no longer wanted to be HERE, just let the other person know....and then.........go.
for those who climb Mt Everest there are stops along the way...base camp, mid camp, high camp, the climbers practice climbing to the various higher stations, and then returning to camp to rest and adjust. as one climbs up and down, they will pass many others on the same path...each with their own personal agenda, personal REASON why they are there. some will make it, many will not, and some will die trying and in the odd honor of climbers, the dead will be left on the mountain.
a relationship is like base camp. temporary safe shelter while you follow your life's path. it is not an absolute that I walk WITH you every step upward...I neither created the mountain for you to climb, nor gave you the strength to climb it. I am just a place of respite.
I agree with some of the premise stated in the book....for me love is creating a safe space for the other to grow. notice that does not say the other person MUST grow, only that if you so wish, I will gladly share with you the life I WISH to lead, if you so care to join me.
the other remains an individual. and the individual retains autonomy. how can anyone promise forever? if I commit to never leaving ever, then how many possible routes to my own life's path do I just shut off? my life may be here now, but MY life may call me to something else someday. or yours. you may decide at 50 or 75 that your life's calling is to serve the underprivileged, and join the Peace Corp. I may someday no longer wish to be here, doing THIS.
when hank and I hooked up, he was on his way to Alaska. he'd bailed on Wisconsin, trying to escape crack, and the farthest point west and away from there was Alaska. so the was the plan....he would at some time be leaving (we live in Seattle). that meant there were no chains, ropes, hooks or forever commitments, there was only NOW. today, probably tomorrow, but I might need help packing.
here we are 11 years later....and we are still very much in the NOW, and most likely, at least, tomorrow. we have more stuff that would take more time to pack. we share a mortgage that would be harder to extricate from. we agreed early on to do this as long as it was fun. if for either person it became a chore or we just no longer wanted to be HERE, just let the other person know....and then.........go.
for those who climb Mt Everest there are stops along the way...base camp, mid camp, high camp, the climbers practice climbing to the various higher stations, and then returning to camp to rest and adjust. as one climbs up and down, they will pass many others on the same path...each with their own personal agenda, personal REASON why they are there. some will make it, many will not, and some will die trying and in the odd honor of climbers, the dead will be left on the mountain.
a relationship is like base camp. temporary safe shelter while you follow your life's path. it is not an absolute that I walk WITH you every step upward...I neither created the mountain for you to climb, nor gave you the strength to climb it. I am just a place of respite.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
I think recovery is incredibly difficult and I have the deepest admiration and respect for people who do the hard work of a 12 step program and/or counseling and are able to maintain sobriety.
Therefore, I think there is a distinct difference between a real attempt at recovery, and someone going through the motions (AA meetings, saying he's sober) but still drinking.
Perhaps "pretend recovery" sounds glib, but that was my experience with my ex. He lied and said he was sober and going to AA meetings, but was just trying to cover it up a little better while shutting everyone out of his life so he wouldn't have to juggle the different personas and lies. It is still hard for me to comprehend how self-destructive one can be when addicted. We all pretended along with him for awhile. I was hoping it was just the early stages and he would gain momentum in the direction of sobriety as he went to more and more meetings, etc., but his paranoia and anger just increased.
I hope I didn't offend anyone.
Therefore, I think there is a distinct difference between a real attempt at recovery, and someone going through the motions (AA meetings, saying he's sober) but still drinking.
Perhaps "pretend recovery" sounds glib, but that was my experience with my ex. He lied and said he was sober and going to AA meetings, but was just trying to cover it up a little better while shutting everyone out of his life so he wouldn't have to juggle the different personas and lies. It is still hard for me to comprehend how self-destructive one can be when addicted. We all pretended along with him for awhile. I was hoping it was just the early stages and he would gain momentum in the direction of sobriety as he went to more and more meetings, etc., but his paranoia and anger just increased.
I hope I didn't offend anyone.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by choublak
What would you consider an alcoholic "in pretend recovery"?
Great. Thanks SO MUCH for bringing this back to that point.
"Pretend" is (in my words) sort of half-assed, at best.
Comes back to the Rigorous Honesty stuff from Chapter 5 in the Big Book.
Goes into the A/A and Mental Health issues, as well.
See, when you get into this -- anyone who would fully follow the full hard-core legit 12 Step Model would make a GREAT life partner.
================
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest. Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps.
================
Longer details here >>>
Why Rigorous Honesty is Key to Successful Recovery
and here >>>
AA History -- Gresham's Law & Alcoholics Anonymous
======================
There are three ways to work the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. (1) The strong, original way, proved powerfully and reliably effective over forty years. (2) A medium way - not so strong, not so safe, not so sure, not so good, but still effective. And (3) a weak way, which turns out to be really no way at all but literally a heresy, a false teaching, a twisting corruption of what the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous clearly stated the program to be.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Anvilhead, I love your insight. Perhaps the commonality between both ways of looking at relationships is that reducing anxiety is key.
To quote Anais Nin: "Anxiety is love's greatest killer. It creates the failures. It makes others feel as you might when a drowning man holds on to you. You want to save him, but you know he will strangle you with his panic."
Perhaps for some, living in the Now without a long-term commitment reduces that anxiety while for others, that place of respite only feels restful if it comes with a long-term commitment. Regardless, I'm glad to hear that you and your man have shared so many happy years together.
I used to rock climb at Smith Rock and hike in the Cascades when I lived out west, so I love the climbing analogy. I'm back on the East Coast now where the mountains are smaller and the forests scragglier, but it's also where my family roots are...
To quote Anais Nin: "Anxiety is love's greatest killer. It creates the failures. It makes others feel as you might when a drowning man holds on to you. You want to save him, but you know he will strangle you with his panic."
Perhaps for some, living in the Now without a long-term commitment reduces that anxiety while for others, that place of respite only feels restful if it comes with a long-term commitment. Regardless, I'm glad to hear that you and your man have shared so many happy years together.
I used to rock climb at Smith Rock and hike in the Cascades when I lived out west, so I love the climbing analogy. I'm back on the East Coast now where the mountains are smaller and the forests scragglier, but it's also where my family roots are...
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
