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Ah diagnosed with NPD

Old 05-30-2013, 08:50 AM
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Ah diagnosed with NPD

I'm not surprised but apparently, he was. His doctor(psychologist) had him do a few narcissistic personality profiles after getting into arguments with AH during therapy sessions and getting frustrated with him. The doc does not feel that AH is an alcoholic at this point, but that his NPD and his 'I'm above the law' attitude clouds his judgement and overrides his decision making. I'm not about to argue with anybody at this point, I just sit and listen to AH tell me what's going on. He seems genuinely confused about what's going on in his own life. I feel sorry for him at times.

I've been trying to meet with AH weekly for lunch. Trying to take down walls here and there to see if anything is salvageable. Yet, I find out about stupid lies and crap and I get frustrated and hurt and angry. I start pulling away again in an effort to step back from him. There really is a part of me that wants this marriage to work, I want to give him the chance to work with his therapist and see if they can make some efforts but his proclamation of going weekly to therapy has already turned into once every two weeks. I'm not surprised, he's a narcissist and he has all the answers. Or, so he thinks.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:55 AM
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Of course he was surprised, lol.

He will more than likely manipulate the therapist...
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:00 AM
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Yeah, the various Personal Disorders tend to track with Self-Medication (alcohol, addicts, etc.). Narcissistic, Borderline, on and on.

Our version is now on Projector/Projection mode. Mrs. Hammer tends to "tell us" what is going on in the inside, by telling us that we are whatever it is.

A couple weeks ago I was told that I have Narcissistic tendencies after she came back from Therapy.

Oh, really? Did not think about it. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:04 AM
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Liz, after being in a relationship with a NPD narcissist, the only advice that was given to me that worked was, "View him with pity. From a great distance."

My exNPD is remarried now and I feel very sorry for his new wife. He hooked her after a very short courtship and I know she is deeply unhappy and he doesn't give two whits about her. I feel worse for the kids, my DS13 included. They spend a lifetime trying to please a father who doesn't see them, doesn't care about their needs, and being disappointed over and over and over again by his empty promises and his arrogance and entitlement. It's death by a thousand cuts.

I'm not surprised by the diagnosis from all your stories. I hope you realize what this means. For this marriage to "work," you need to be willing to subsume yourself completely to his desires for the rest of your time together. NPD is not touched by therapy and medication. It's a personality disorder -- this is WHO HE IS, forever, and to everyone.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Florence View Post
Liz, after being in a relationship with a NPD narcissist, the only advice that was given to me that worked was, "View him with pity. From a great distance."

My exNPD is remarried now and I feel very sorry for his new wife. He hooked her after a very short courtship and I know she is deeply unhappy and he doesn't give two whits about her. I feel worse for the kids, my DS13 included. They spend a lifetime trying to please a father who doesn't see them, doesn't care about their needs, and being disappointed over and over and over again by his empty promises and his arrogance and entitlement. It's death by a thousand cuts.

I'm not surprised by the diagnosis from all your stories. I hope you realize what this means. For this marriage to "work," you need to be willing to subsume yourself completely to his desires for the rest of your time together. NPD is not touched by therapy and medication. It's a personality disorder -- this is WHO HE IS, forever, and to everyone.
Yeah, I know and I knew this well before he did. What bugs me is that he really does make an effort with our son despite his jealousy of his own kid, if that makes sense. He tries to spend time with him, he makes an effort in many ways, and sometimes I feel that it conflicts with NPD as I understand it. Even AH has said that he doesn't understand himself at times, like he's constantly fighting demons inside himself when really his intentions are good.

Unfortunately, I know that any change that comes along will be minor. Last week he threw our neighbors under the bus for being unreasonable because they called the police on him at 8:30 for his drum playing. The neighbors brought it up to me and I found out that it actually was well after 10PM. That was AH's entitlement mentality kicking in: he can play his drums whenever he wants and screw everybody else. But, when someone tramples on his rights you better watch out because he'll be all over you like white on rice.

He also got on my case the other day because I let my 14 year old 'drive' the car out of the driveway, across the cul de sac, and park it on the other side. He drove about 75 feet and mostly I had him in neutral because our driveway is slightly graded. He said, "Isn't that illegal? That's illegal, you know right?" And, later when we were in private he said, "You get on my case for driving after drinking and how illegal it is, yet you let him drive the car?" UGH! Ok, point taken. Heaven forbid I start teaching my 14.5 year old the basics of driving. I should have known better. My son saw right through it all and knew exactly the point that dad was trying to make and made mention of it to me later.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:27 AM
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I'm going to step back from damning judgment here. That he was diagnosed as NPD, along with having alcohol problems, and marriage problems, definitely means this guy is in for a long ride to a healthy perception of reality though. I don't like to label--as life is selfish by nature. That said, I wonder how much of a wake-up call this will be for him? To have such a diagnosis and to share it with you, wow. I would think myself the shame and anger at such a diagnosis would make my first inclination to want to keep it a secret.
I'm wondering if this may be a turning point. A point where he reads a lot on NPD on the web, and starts to understand how he has been labeled. I'm wondering if that might lead to some behavior changes, as in realizing he is selfish, and wanting to free himself of such a label. Maybe that's just a normal person's response to the fear of such a thing. But this could be a real game changer in your life if he takes the diagnosis seriously at all and starts to look at the traits and then changes behaviors that fit the categories.
Who would want to be labeled NPD? So seriously selfish that they can't see any beauty beyond their own nose?
It's got to be humbling at least!
Did he tell you with any alarm, fear, or concern? Shame?
What I'm trying to say here is that if he has NPD traits, whether it becomes the all-damning label for life, or, if he decides to do something about it--(which would mean it's a label, not a destiny) the next few weeks, months, are really going to be revealing.
This could be the break YOU'VE been looking for--with such a label he can decide to finally change, or just continue to fit the label forever, and if he does the latter, your future choices for yourself will be very clear.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:35 AM
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BlueSkies, NPD is a lifetime issue. It can't be cured.

What bugs me is that he really does make an effort with our son despite his jealousy of his own kid, if that makes sense. He tries to spend time with him, he makes an effort in many ways, and sometimes I feel that it conflicts with NPD as I understand it. Even AH has said that he doesn't understand himself at times, like he's constantly fighting demons inside himself when really his intentions are good.
Good intentions with NPDs are usually short-lived, and really about his own self-image -- or maintenance of a "human face" -- more than it is about the recipient of his good deeds. A lot of the time, NPDs do things because they think they're supposed to, and because it gets them good attention. A lot of the time, they say all the right things but do something else entirely.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:44 AM
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I second everything that Florence has said.

I especially relate to "Death by a thousand cuts". That is the best charcterization of NPD
that I have ever heard!!

My children's father is very narcissistic. I divorced him decades ago. I haven't seen or spoken to him in years and years--but I hear that he hasn't changed one iota over the years. I have never regretted the decision to divorce. I was young at the time--28yrs. and certainly had no idea what the clinical features of personality disorders looked like (LOL)--but I knew in my gut that there was no way I could ever be myself and and have my my own identity while living with him.

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Old 05-30-2013, 10:16 AM
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Not surprising at all, and yes they do seemingly "nice" things mostly because they want to appear "nice." It's all about projecting the appearance of being a good person, not about actually being a good person.

Now, this diagnosis really doesn't change your situation at all, it merely gives it a name. So, best thing to do is continue on your path of self-discovery and continue asking yourself the hard questions. For example, when you say you want this marriage to work, what are you really saying? When I said that to myself, what I really wanted was for *him* to change. I didn't want to make the marriage work by accepting him as he was. In other words, I didn't want to be married to *him*, but some idealized version of him I created in my mind.

L
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:37 AM
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My x had NPD as well and when he wanted to be charming he could sweep you off your feet, but it was only with words. He would often tell all our friends that I was too good for him. I should have listened to him the first time he said that, ugh.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:36 AM
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NPD is a lifetime issue. It can't be cured

funny, i was thinking this just before Florence brought it up....

OMG! things flashed before me with my A...i mean thank god he didnt take me down as his HOSTAGE(he was nice about that)...but it just puts thing in more in a life time difficultly for him and everything, everyone AROUND HIM....

I so totally get it now...
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Florence View Post
BlueSkies, NPD is a lifetime issue. It can't be cured.
Oh I get that Florence, that it is considered a lifetime sentence...it's all on me that I don't like labels for that very reason, alcoholic, NPD, etc., for me personally, I don't look at things written in stone unless they are written in stone...just my very personal views about not looking at life as black and white with no wiggle room for gray, or personal change.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by fedup3 View Post
My x had NPD as well and when he wanted to be charming he could sweep you off your feet, but it was only with words. He would often tell all our friends that I was too good for him. I should have listened to him the first time he said that, ugh.
I used to hear that one, too. I should have listened as well.

To answer LTD's question about what I'm really saying. Yes, I do think I'm waiting for him to change but only because he's working on changing. I'm giving him the chance to show me with his actions that he wants to get better. If he were claiming that I was crazy or stating that he doesn't want to change, then I'd know what I was dealing with but his proclamations of change and effort that I can see are giving me cause to wait and see. What remains to be determined is if this is part of his personality where he is just making surface changes or if he is really working on changing at a deeper level?
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:48 AM
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I think Liz, when it is sincere, you won't be confused about the question of whether it is surface or not. Sincerity hits you and makes your jaw drop to the floor. Surface changes leave us still confused. Sincerity is crystal clear. Not that there can't be small errors, reverting back to the old thinking. But real change, real effort toward change, is so apparent it truly is jaw dropping to witness.
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:05 PM
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So, you want to be married to a "better version" of him? And he knows this? And so he is "working on changing?"

Sorry to be blunt, but he really has you exactly where he wants you. He is who he is. You can either accept it, or not. But, if you wait around for him to become someone else, you will waste your life waiting for a fantasy that will never materialize. You may as well go buy some lottery tickets--the odds are better.

L
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by fedup3 View Post
My x had NPD as well and when he wanted to be charming he could sweep you off your feet, but it was only with words. He would often tell all our friends that I was too good for him. I should have listened to him the first time he said that, ugh.
Same here!! My therapist suspects my XA has either NPD, APD or a combination of the two. And I, also, should have listened when, during our first big fight, my XA told me I deserved better than him. Instead, I held on tighter and cried, "DON'T say that about yourself - there's NOTHING wrong with you!! And don't tell me what I deserve or don't deserve!!" Funnily enough, many times AFTER that argument and up until the night he dumped me by text, I thought to myself, "It's not that I deserve better THAN him, it's that I deserve to be treated better BY him." And then, in classic codie fashion, I would quickly run down my always-handy 'mental list' of reasons (a/k/a EXCUSES) as to why he treated me the way he did (bad childhood, dysfunctional family, hurt by love too many times, etc.) so I wouldn't have to deal with the reality of that nagging little thought.
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:15 PM
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I have struggled and struggled with a few family members that have NPD. I echo the thoughts said here about narcissists: there is no cure and the only thing you can do is to STAY AWAY. My husband and I have tried, tried and tried again to make things work with them, to no avail.

I guess it is part of our own narcissism to think that we will be the ones to meet them half way or in some circumstances, get them to understand.

I offer my sincere condolences to you - NPD is an impossible disorder.
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:27 PM
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Liz, I hear where you are coming from when you say you want to see if he is serious about making changes. I just want to throw out there that your life doesn't have to be put on hold while he works through this (or doesn't, as the case may be). Even if you separated or divorced, there would be nothing really stopping the two of you from reconnecting down the line if his efforts at change are genuine.

And I'm not advocating that. I'm just suggesting that hitching your wagon to his or anyone's else star of change is no way to spend the precious little time we get to spend on this earth. You are an articulate, curious, ever-evolving being seeking answers, and you don't have to depend on anyone else to become the person you want to be.

Good luck to you, Liz -- I am sure there is a sense of relief at knowing for sure what you're dealing with, as harsh as the diagnosis might be. But defining the terms is only part of the process, as you well know. Sending strength and courage your way.
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:44 PM
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Save yourself....

What remains to be determined is if this is part of his personality where he is just making surface changes or if he is really working on changing at a deeper level?
Narcissistic PERSONALITY Disorder. He is only capable of making surface changes.

his proclamation of going weekly to therapy has already turned into once every two weeks. I'm not surprised, he's a narcissist and he has all the answers. Or, so he thinks.
Once diagnosed, he has already cut his therapy sessions in half.
In my opinion, that does not sound like someone who is interested in making any changes in himself or his life.
Does that sound like someone who is willing to start

really working on changing at a deeper level?
Lizatola, Please save yourself and the rest of your life.

There is life on the other side of narcissism, your life could be about you and your son (only).
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:54 PM
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Amen, wicked!

Also, speaking as an alcohol addict who strives to be a better person in all things, I have done some pretty questionable and immoral things of which I am not proud. We are a ruthless bunch when it comes to our addiction.

NPD + addiction - that is a scary prospect for you to deal with for the rest of your life. My sweet, patient husband had enough of my irresponsibility over the last year. It has taken a tremendous amount of introspection for me to pull myself out of my irresponsible, self-inflicted addiction. People with NPD are not capable of deep introspection. Most "normal" people with addiction have an incredible time reaching a point where they can be honest with themselves.

Also, to all the friends and family members who are supporting addicts - I wish you the best. We do not make life easy; you guys are a terrific group of people to be so supportive of your loved ones!
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