Blogs


Notices

Ah diagnosed with NPD

Old 05-30-2013, 01:30 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
Occasional poor taste poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Not at all surprised to hear of this diagnosys, expected it TBH. I'd be more concerned about how much of him will rub off on your son than leaving with a clear conscious that you gave him more chances than he deserved.
Jazzman is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Jazzman For This Useful Post:
BunnyNest (05-31-2013), EverHopeful721 (05-30-2013), Peacegirl (06-06-2013), stella27 (05-30-2013), wicked (05-30-2013)
Old 05-30-2013, 01:35 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
Member
 
SadieJack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Dallas, Texas originally from Michigan
Posts: 125
In the new DSM (Diagnostic Statistical Manual) 5, the "psychological Bible", NPD is not a designated disorder anymore. I wonder how the narcissists feel about that? HA!
SadieJack is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to SadieJack For This Useful Post:
ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013)
Old 05-30-2013, 01:38 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
Member
 
Florence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Yes, I do think I'm waiting for him to change but only because he's working on changing. I'm giving him the chance to show me with his actions that he wants to get better. If he were claiming that I was crazy or stating that he doesn't want to change, then I'd know what I was dealing with but his proclamations of change and effort that I can see are giving me cause to wait and see. What remains to be determined is if this is part of his personality where he is just making surface changes or if he is really working on changing at a deeper level?
This is smoke and mirrors. He says he's working on it because saying he's working on it works on you. He knows that you'll gladly live on his crumbs.

NPD people are not capable of the introspection necessary to make deep personal changes in their lives. You're just his mirror -- and you're only useful to him as long as you're reflecting back nice things about him to him.
Florence is offline  
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Florence For This Useful Post:
1stthingsfirst (05-30-2013), ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), BunnyNest (05-31-2013), butterfly2013 (05-30-2013), ColetteTocca (05-30-2013), dandylion (05-30-2013), EverHopeful721 (05-30-2013), keepingmyjoy1 (06-09-2013), Lulu39 (05-30-2013), Saneinsight (06-02-2013), stella27 (05-30-2013), wicked (05-30-2013)
Old 05-30-2013, 03:42 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
Engineer Things; LOVE People
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,712
Originally Posted by BlueSkies1 View Post
Oh I get that Florence, that it is considered a lifetime sentence...it's all on me that I don't like labels for that very reason, alcoholic, NPD, etc., for me personally, I don't look at things written in stone unless they are written in stone...just my very personal views about not looking at life as black and white with no wiggle room for gray, or personal change.
Newer fMRI scans are showing up that generally the Long Term "Personality" Disorders are sort of Hardware Brain Malfunctions.

So while it is not written in stone, as you say, it is a real physical condition to over come with major rework of emotional and relationship behaviors.

Nature, in this case, does not favor recovery.
Hammer is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Hammer For This Useful Post:
ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), dandylion (05-30-2013), Saneinsight (06-02-2013), stella27 (05-31-2013), wicked (05-30-2013)
Old 05-30-2013, 04:45 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
Member
 
wicked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Blog Entries: 1
Nature, in this case, does not favor recovery.
So, it may not be written in stone, it is written on the brain.

Long Term "Personality" Disorders are sort of Hardware Brain Malfunctions.
thank you Hammer.

Beth
wicked is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to wicked For This Useful Post:
love4menotu (05-31-2013)
Old 05-30-2013, 04:48 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 56
I'm pretty sure my (deceased) father had both NPD and substance abuse issues. I suppose it's no surprise I have a 'broken picker.'
Chickadees is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Chickadees For This Useful Post:
ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), wicked (05-31-2013)
Old 05-30-2013, 04:59 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
Member
 
Summerpeach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,292
My couples therapist told me my ex is a narc and said "There is no salvation and if you don't want a life of deep insanity, then run"

I didn't listen of course cause I knew he would change and we would be ok. Well a year into it, he cheated and then all the real juicy crazy came out of him. I left, never looked back
I can spot a narc from a mile now.

There is no cure because it's not a disease, it's a personality. It would be like trying to turn someone gay/straight, a dog into a cat, a flower into a tree......it just is
Summerpeach is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Summerpeach For This Useful Post:
ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), BunnyNest (05-31-2013), dandylion (05-30-2013), Lily1918 (05-30-2013), m1k3 (05-31-2013), owathu (06-03-2013), stella27 (06-01-2013), wicked (05-30-2013)
Old 05-30-2013, 05:25 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
Member
 
choublak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,667
My take on the whole "acting nice" thing, narcissists will use it later on to manipulate. It's just another tool for their toolbox.
choublak is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to choublak For This Useful Post:
Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), butterfly2013 (05-31-2013), wicked (05-31-2013)
Old 05-31-2013, 08:21 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
lizatola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Originally Posted by Florence View Post
This is smoke and mirrors. He says he's working on it because saying he's working on it works on you. He knows that you'll gladly live on his crumbs.

NPD people are not capable of the introspection necessary to make deep personal changes in their lives. You're just his mirror -- and you're only useful to him as long as you're reflecting back nice things about him to him.
Well, the good news is that, while I am hopeful as I am an eternal optimist(very codie behavior, I know), I am finally becoming more of a realist. I know that he may never change, heck his own mother told me that he wasn't going to change because she felt that my AH was just like my father in law. She passed away a few days later unexpectedly and those words turned out to be some of her last to me.

But, I am comfortable where I am right now. I am comfortable taking this time to work on my steps with my sponsor, finding the time for meetings, doing summer school with my son, getting him to his out of state tournaments, organizing my son's summer tutoring schedule, etc. I guess I am OK with where we are at because I'm finding it easy to wait to see if AH will truly take the initiative to change his life. Because AH is on meds for his anxiety he no longer has angry aggressive outbursts and I believe his ADHD meds help him with his inattentiveness and he is now finishing more projects around the house instead of leaving them half done. Things are not perfect in our lives, I don't know if our marriage will survive, I know that we have a lot of work to do, but I also know we can't do that work until AH is in a place of healing for himself. I have a feeling that I will know it when the time comes. For now, waiting is OK, I have come to accept that it really is OK for me and for us.
lizatola is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to lizatola For This Useful Post:
ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013)
Old 05-31-2013, 08:30 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
Member
 
dandylion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 15,538
Wow, Liz....you sure could have fooled me!!!!

sincerely, dandylion
dandylion is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to dandylion For This Useful Post:
fourmaggie (05-31-2013)
Old 05-31-2013, 08:49 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 837
Liz, we all walk different roads with different stop signs and you haven't come to your stop sign with the detour yet. A couple of years ago people here were pointing to my sign but at that time I couldn't see it, take your time, it's your time.
fedup3 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to fedup3 For This Useful Post:
ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), wicked (06-01-2013)
Old 05-31-2013, 08:53 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
Member
 
m1k3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
but I also know we can't do that work until AH is in a place of healing for himself
Liz, you do know that this is pretty much the same as saying:

but I also know we can't do that work until AH is in a place of healing and has finally grown a third eye for himself
This isn't a character defect. It is who he is. Through medication and hard work he may reach a place where he can do a pretty good job of faking empathy but he will never feel it. It's just not part of him.

Your friend,
m1k3 is offline  
The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to m1k3 For This Useful Post:
4MyBoys (06-03-2013), ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), AnvilheadII (05-31-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), EverHopeful721 (05-31-2013), fedup3 (05-31-2013), Florence (05-31-2013), fourmaggie (05-31-2013), love4menotu (05-31-2013), Lulu39 (06-04-2013), owathu (06-03-2013), Peacegirl (06-06-2013), Saneinsight (06-02-2013), ShootingStar1 (05-31-2013), stella27 (06-01-2013), Sungrl (05-31-2013), wicked (05-31-2013)
Old 05-31-2013, 09:59 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by choublak View Post
My take on the whole "acting nice" thing, narcissists will use it later on to manipulate. It's just another tool for their toolbox.
So true! Their "generosity" comes with major strings attached!

My ex works as an apartment maintenance manager, so he was given a free apartment. We agreed that he would live somewhere else, and me and our son would live in the apartment. Well, I lived there less than a month when he came into the apartment at 4AM in the morning while he was *very* drunk. (He used his master key to get in.) I began looking for another apartment, and I moved as quickly as a could. But of course, my ex now pretends that incident never happened and he wrote in his court declaration that he provided a free apartment for me and our son, so of course he must be a fit parent.

He recently told me, "I don't know what world you live in, it must be a fairy tale world where everywhere is perfect." I guess for narcissists, knowing that other people have a conscience is actually like a "fairy tale."
butterfly2013 is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to butterfly2013 For This Useful Post:
1stthingsfirst (05-31-2013), ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), dandylion (05-31-2013), EverHopeful721 (05-31-2013), Lulu39 (06-04-2013), Saneinsight (06-02-2013), stella27 (06-01-2013), wicked (05-31-2013)
Old 05-31-2013, 10:32 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
Member
 
1stthingsfirst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 250
Blog Entries: 11
I just wanted to say that this thread has been majorly therapeutic for me. A portion of my drinking was brought on by my NPD in-laws. I wanted to keep trying to help my SIL and her children - my niece and nephew - while my husband just wanted to STAY AWAY from his sister as well as his NPD father. It caused a lot of conflict for all parties. It was impossible and I just recently learned to keep them out of our lives and our childrens' lives.

My SIL is my FIL's "golden child" and if you do or say anything to suggest she is not the most terrific, sexy, talented, beautiful, generous, funny, and intelligent person in the world - you better watch out. There is nothing like narcissistic rage.

My husband and I are resolved to our decision - which unfortunately, includes excluding my innocent niece and nephew. Narcissists never change; they are absolutely broken. This thread has really helped my understand my own motives, and my desperate need for extended family since my own family lives 7 hours away.

Liz, what is it that you are worried about losing? Is it income? Being blamed for breaking up the family? I understand how narcissists deflect blame - their accusations can be devastating if you believe what they say.

Throughout the years I have seen my FIL and SIL cheat, lie, steal, manipulate, gaslight, viciously ostracize and physically harm people weaker than them. It took me 15 years to realize that my role as a "good wife" did not include associating with people who are verging on sociopathy.
1stthingsfirst is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to 1stthingsfirst For This Useful Post:
ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), dandylion (05-31-2013), EverHopeful721 (05-31-2013), Florence (05-31-2013), Lulu39 (06-04-2013), stella27 (06-01-2013), wicked (05-31-2013)
Old 05-31-2013, 11:49 AM
  # 35 (permalink)  
Member
 
Florence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Liz, we all walk different roads with different stop signs and you haven't come to your stop sign with the detour yet. A couple of years ago people here were pointing to my sign but at that time I couldn't see it, take your time, it's your time.
I'm going to agree with fedup3 here. You haven't reached your detour sign yet, and that's okay. I took that time for myself and it was a great thing. Use it for you.

That said, with all of the talk you're doing of seeing whether or not your AH will change? I hope you're researching and reading about people with NPD and their partners. You will need this knowledge. It explains all of your frustrations with your AH. Every single one. To me, a dual diagnosis of NPD and alcoholism would be the final nail in the coffin. There is no change, there is no validation, there is no understanding, there never will be, not for you, not for any of his children, not in any of his future relationships. He's not capable of it. You're looking for warm fuzzies down a black hole.

With love, I've been there.
Florence is offline  
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Florence For This Useful Post:
4MyBoys (06-03-2013), ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), boldaslove (06-01-2013), dandylion (05-31-2013), EverHopeful721 (05-31-2013), Lulu39 (06-04-2013), PeacefulMe (06-03-2013), Saneinsight (06-02-2013), stella27 (06-01-2013), wicked (06-01-2013)
Old 05-31-2013, 02:30 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
I AM CANADIAN
 
fourmaggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
Blog Entries: 45
i keep wondering why you think your NOT WORTH it...?

(i remember my late husbands last words too about his alcoholic parents--and i remember it all the time...."their choatic lives are just not worth our insanity")
fourmaggie is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to fourmaggie For This Useful Post:
ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), BunnyNest (06-01-2013), dandylion (05-31-2013), EverHopeful721 (06-01-2013)
Old 06-01-2013, 08:28 AM
  # 37 (permalink)  
Member
 
LaTeeDa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Only when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the fear of changing do we change. I made my changes only when the pain brought me to my knees. I wasn't sure if I would survive, but I did, and life is really, really good over here on the other side.

As much as I would like to prevent that pain for others by telling them my story, I know that each person has to live out their own story and feel their own pain. Liz, I can see that pain looming on the horizon for you, but until you see it--and feel it, there is nothing I can say to convince you of it's inevitable arrival. Just know that you will survive, and SR will be here for you when that day comes.

L
LaTeeDa is offline  
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to LaTeeDa For This Useful Post:
1stthingsfirst (06-01-2013), ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), EverHopeful721 (06-01-2013), m1k3 (06-01-2013), MamaKit (06-02-2013), PeacefulMe (06-03-2013), Pelican (06-01-2013), RollTide (06-03-2013), Saneinsight (06-02-2013), wicked (06-01-2013)
Old 06-03-2013, 07:52 AM
  # 38 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
I will continue to be the "black sheep" here on this thread.

I keep thinking about this lifelong condemnation without chance for change, this one stroke of a pen, and this psychologist that has labeled Liz's husband as NPD, unrepairable--for life, to never understand nor feel true compassion, empathy, sympathy, and with that condemnation, basically unfit for relationships with other humans.
And I think to myself--No one single person on this planet has the right to be his higher power. No one psychologist on this planet, or even a group of psychologists, has the right to say that he will NEVER change, or, ANY of us will never change.
There are no nevers on this planet. Everyone is capable of change.
Why am I coming to his defense? I'm not really...I'm coming to the defense of mankind, and that includes me, you, and all those who don't read this. EVERYONE.

Psychology is an inexact science at best. Psychologists are other humans, not gods. Psychologists can do a lot of good, or a lot of harm. Psychologists/psychiatrists, have made errors, agreed? Revamped what is acceptable treatment, changed their methods over the centuries. They are mere humans too.
I will go so far as to say that I think it is arrogant to label someone as "unable to change for the rest of their life".
If nothing else, I would want several "experts" to come to the same conclusion, that he has NPD traits (which by the way we all do to some extent, there are extreme cases yes).
If it were me with such a diagnosis, I would fight it. I can't help but seeing myself in his shoes. Such a label! Such condemnation! We are merely humans, with very limited knowledge about the human brain, no matter what "expert" label one of us has been given in the psychology community, no matter what awards, PhD's, hang on the office wall.
Ok, rant over.
Now I hope in time Liz will update us on what he actually does after receiving this label.
BlueSkies1 is offline  
Old 06-03-2013, 08:09 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
Member
 
Tuffgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Blog Entries: 4
Originally Posted by BlueSkies1 View Post
I will continue to be the "black sheep" here on this thread.

I keep thinking about this lifelong condemnation without chance for change, this one stroke of a pen, and this psychologist that has labeled Liz's husband as NPD, unrepairable--for life, to never understand nor feel true compassion, empathy, sympathy, and with that condemnation, basically unfit for relationships with other humans.
And I think to myself--No one single person on this planet has the right to be his higher power. No one psychologist on this planet, or even a group of psychologists, has the right to say that he will NEVER change, or, ANY of us will never change.
There are no nevers on this planet. Everyone is capable of change.
Why am I coming to his defense? I'm not really...I'm coming to the defense of mankind, and that includes me, you, and all those who don't read this. EVERYONE.

Psychology is an inexact science at best. Psychologists are other humans, not gods. Psychologists can do a lot of good, or a lot of harm. Psychologists/psychiatrists, have made errors, agreed? Revamped what is acceptable treatment, changed their methods over the centuries. They are mere humans too.
I will go so far as to say that I think it is arrogant to label someone as "unable to change for the rest of their life".
If nothing else, I would want several "experts" to come to the same conclusion, that he has NPD traits (which by the way we all do to some extent, there are extreme cases yes).
If it were me with such a diagnosis, I would fight it. I can't help but seeing myself in his shoes. Such a label! Such condemnation! We are merely humans, with very limited knowledge about the human brain, no matter what "expert" label one of us has been given in the psychology community, no matter what awards, PhD's, hang on the office wall.
Ok, rant over.
Now I hope in time Liz will update us on what he actually does after receiving this label.
Narcissists tend to not give a sh*t about labels.

And labels aren't condemnation. They are simply used as a classification system. It's us humans that give such labels good or bad associations to them.

Thing is - he either will live up to it or he won't. It really is that simple. To me, the issue isn't the label, its what the OP chooses to do with the information that matters. Is this a deal-breaker? Or a starting point to some kind of understanding and acceptance to his limitations?
Tuffgirl is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Tuffgirl For This Useful Post:
ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), BlueSkies1 (06-03-2013), EverHopeful721 (06-03-2013), fourmaggie (06-05-2013), Lulu39 (06-04-2013), m1k3 (06-03-2013), SparkleKitty (06-03-2013)
Old 06-03-2013, 08:27 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
Member
 
LaTeeDa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
It's not about lifelong condemnation without hope of change. It's about the same thing all of us have struggled with. It doesn't matter if someone is NPD, alcoholic, drug addict, or just plain jerk. That is who they are *right now.*

The choice we have is whether to live in the here and now, or in the possible, maybe, potential future. There is always the possibility of change. However, we have to choose if we want to live our lives waiting and hoping for that change, or make our decisions based on what is, rather than what could be. If you only love someone for who they could be, not who they are right now, is that really love?

L
LaTeeDa is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to LaTeeDa For This Useful Post:
ACOAHappyNow (06-05-2013), Argnotthisagain (06-03-2013), dandylion (06-03-2013), DreamsofSerenity (06-03-2013), EverHopeful721 (06-03-2013), m1k3 (06-03-2013), SparkleKitty (06-03-2013)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:12 PM.