Encouargement?

Old 05-28-2013, 05:17 PM
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She will keep repeating the same things over and over until she commits to recovery - but she has to recover from alcoholism and BPD, she can't do one without the other.

I took a completely different approach, both with my A mother and my xabf. I just let them do what they wanted to do. They wanted to drive? I wouldn't stop it. They didn't go to work because they were too drunk from the night before - hey, that's their choice.

I tried in the beginning to save them from themselves and then I learned (from here and my therapist) that as long as I tried to control their actions and take responsibility for them - they could never do it themselves.

It won't feel worth it until you feel the benefits of leaving the eye of the storm. Everything feels so chaotic right now and your mind and your heart are at war with each other. Your mind is adamant you cannot do this anymore (the relationship), your heart is saying you love this woman and that means loving all of her, that to abandon her would be wrong. Let's put this in perspective - she has already abandoned you. Every time she picks up the bottle and choose that over you, every day she chooses not to get help, she abandons you.

Stick to that evidence - base everything on facts. It is the only way to truly see her for what she is. Consider the cycles, write it down. Remind yourself of the things she says and how it makes you feel (that's an important one!) Then consider, if a perfect stranger came up to you and did those things, would you consider them as a lover or as a friend?

Would you waste your time getting to know them? I realise you feel you have made an investment in this relationship, and you have. But the biggest investment you can make is in yourself - and that's a relationship worth fighting for. This battle has already been fought, lost, and fought again. Put down your weapons, walk away from the field and embrace the peace - it is out there!
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:42 PM
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I can't tell you how right you are. One thing I have learned is that you can't control other people. As far as driving, that won't happen, unless I pay for it, and I won't. Yes everything is chaotic, well at least my feelings are. And you are so right, she abandoned me a long time ago, and now physically too. I look back, and there are times I wished I had stuck to my guns years ago, and this would have had a closure-one way or the other. Well, now I have to. I'm just simply worn out from this behavior, can't do it any more. Don't want to. My mind tells me: ITS NOT GOING TO GET BETTER. The heart , on the other hand, well, you know.....

I really appreciate your words, what a great incentive, and I don't hand out praise easily-thanks
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:23 AM
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I keep mulling over the thought of basing everything on the evidence. Whenever I find myself centering my thoughts on her, focusing on 'the evidence' really helps to readjust my thinking, and to see it for what it is.

The other thing that really helps, is lack of contact. So far, every time I had a conversation, it always ends with me in turmoil again, it undoes the progress I've made. And I know, I'm being manipulated.

Its still early in the game, or at least this stage of the game, and I've got some distance to go. I keep coming back here and re-reading the comments, they re-affirm what I know to be true, and help keep me focused.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:38 AM
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Well once again I went against my better judgment as well as advice given here, and talked to my wife today. She e-mailed me yesterday, but I didn't respond. She then called this morning while I was at work, and w/o thinking I just answered my phone. Basically it was just about some business for my parents that she'd been handling. I guess what I just can't get is how she can be so nonchalant about this whole thing? Here I am in a state of utter chaos, and everything is wonderful for her. She always ends the conversations with "I love you", adding further confusion for me. I'm going insane here, I can't even work its so bad. Fortunately, the job I'm doing now is for a good friend, and he's being very patient and understanding,(thank you, thank you). Because I'm pretty much a basket case right now. I know a lot of others are going through this at present, or have done so. How the h**l do you detach your self from this, and do something constructive, instead of wallowing in it? How the _____ can someone be so cruel, after all the years of crap she's put me through, and I've stood by her loyally for so long, and just walk away??? I know this will pass, but its so very hard right now. Sorry for the rant, but I guess I need to vent, for what its worth.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:10 AM
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SoloJohn, wow. What a history she has.

What I'm thinking about though is you. What a trooper. What endurance. What good work ethics, sound mind, grounded in reality person you are.
I don't give a hoot about her and her self-induced situation.
I'm thinking solely about you and what you have made of yourself--a successful example of a person, no doubt, worth knowing.
Two people get married. They are still their own persons--completely. Who she is is not who you are. Remember that! Once we fully realize that marriage doesn't mean we reflect or carry the personal baggage of our spouses (and neither do they ours) we can start to fully appreciate OURSELVES. As individuals. We may be married, but all people in my view, live on the same planet but none on the same exact reality. You breathe your own air! Take a deep breath!
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:27 AM
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Hugs, SoloJohn.

I understand how confusing it is to interact with an A. We try to make sense of their words / actions, but can't. You know why? Because they don't make sense. They aren't the least bit rational when they are actively using. I think they are able to convince themselves that they are, and they just say / do things with such confidence so that others are convinced too.

Have you read the "Quackers" thread yet? Quacking is how we on SR refer to it when our As are not making sense. There are so many examples that the thread has been split in two. Here is a link to the first part:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ackers-17.html

Reading this thread will help you identify some of the crazy... And know that she is not unique in her own brand of it. Identifying the crazy, and picturing it as a giant quacking duck, has helped me to detach from it. I have no need for that much duck in my life. Also, the thread is disturbingly amusing at times. Hopefully, it will help you crack a smile today.

Peace,
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:32 AM
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Hi Solojohn, I was married 39 yrs so I know what you're talking about it's just so much time to live in turmoil and chaos that when you're away from it you actually miss it because you don't remember life any differently! Madness, but we are sick like the alcoholic in our lives that's why you need to be good to you and get help for you. There is life beyond this madness and I pray that you find it.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:36 AM
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BlueSkies and Fathom, thank you so very much for the kind and generous words. People like you re-affirm my faith in the human race, and I will read that thread. Thanks again.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:57 AM
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I wanted to make a brief comment on your post, Fedup. What you say really makes a lot of sense. Your mind, logically, is telling you how awful it has been for so long. But the feelings, the familiarity of it all, is what's missed, the good with the bad. My mind also tells me that she is manipulating me, if for no other reason, simply for the security of knowing she can come back at any time. I have got to cut that. I think that's why I grieve so much, because I know I have to make that decision
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:38 AM
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Just a brief note to all who have commented. It may seem like a small thing, but these comments really help us to look at things from a proper perspective. Often, one is simply too close to the situation to see things the way they really are. These comments today uplifted me so much, I went and finished a project outside that I had been putting off
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:43 AM
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Awesome! Good on you!
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:50 AM
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Well I guess this is normal, but now I'm struggling with feelings that somehow I'm responsible for all of this. I know that's not true, but I still feel that I have contributed. Before leaving, she stated that she had to go or she would die here. I really don't understand, because she still drinks no matter where she is staying. I guess what's really frustrating for me, is that the situation she was in was created by her. I used to beg her to please not drink while driving. She hangs out with a neighbor that also drinks a lot, and I told her it really wasn't a good idea. Is this controlling? This is really getting tough to deal with. Somehow I've got pull out of this. How??

I know too, she has mental issues, and with the alcohol, is just a really bad situation. But why is she so angry at me? She says she doesn't blame me, yet it sure seems so.
Just to give an idea how bad it has been, she, apparently would drink rubbing alcohol. I couldn't keep any in the house. She even found some in the garage I had for cleaning things. Don't get me wrong, she can be a very kind and generous person, and is well liked by nearly all she meets. Help me to understand some of this?? And why I feel like this. Sorry for the long rant. Really blue today..
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:17 AM
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(((((SoloJohn)))))

What your wife had done is what we sober for a while call a 'GEOGRAPHIC' it is the alcohol thinking that if I just go elsewhere everything will be great, NOT because we take ourselves with us.

Enough about her, how about you. I am sure by now you have read on here about the 3 C's

You didn't CAUSE this.

You can't CONTROL this.

You can't CURE this.

I post them again as a reminder, YOU DID NOT CAUSE THIS.

Oh sure, you probably enabled, hell we all did! Why? Because we didn't know any better. We thought we were doing our best to 'help' our loved one.

You are 'doing' for you now and that is a GOOD thing. Not only am I an alcoholic (in recovery now for a very long time, lol) But .............................. I married 2 alcoholics. I divorced the first one, before I went totally down the 'rabbit hole' and I married my second one in recovery, he too was sober, but chose to switch his Drug Of Choice (DOC) to gambling, which is how I got into Alanon, thanks to my AA sponsors instructions, lol

Have I kept in sporadic touch with them over these many years? Yes I have. My first husband died in December of '99 not 100' feet from where his older brother had died in downtown Los Angeles. My 2nd husband died in January of '07 in AZ from Valley Fever. He could not fight it from his poor existence of barely eating, living in rat trip flea infested room, and spending all his money on gambling.

I have watched many alcoholics find and maintain sobriety and I have seen many find sobriety and go back out there. However, over these many years I have seen a lot more codependents try and find recovery and very very few go back to their codependent ways. That tells me that your chances are really pretty damn good!!!

Hang with us, know that when you are feeling down, if you picture wherever you are absolutely FILLED with all of us here at SR. You will find that it does help!

Also as you are finding out, feel free to come here to rant, rave, cry, scream, and yes even laugh, we do understand, and care.

Love and hugs,
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:25 AM
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Hey John, great thread. And Jad's info regarding Borderline, especially cross with Alcohol was pretty good, too.


Originally Posted by SoloJohn View Post
Well I guess this is normal, but now I'm struggling with feelings that somehow I'm responsible for all of this. I know that's not true, but I still feel that I have contributed.
Sure. BPD/A/A, etc. cannot take responsibility for ANYTHING -- So It Must Be You.


Before leaving, she stated that she had to go or she would die here. I really don't understand, because she still drinks no matter where she is staying. I guess what's really frustrating for me, is that the situation she was in was created by her. I used to beg her to please not drink while driving. She hangs out with a neighbor that also drinks a lot, and I told her it really wasn't a good idea. Is this controlling? This is really getting tough to deal with. Somehow I've got pull out of this. How??
FIRST. Distance.

Physical and Emotional.

In this like other realms, Distance = Safety.

You work construction, right? Same here, in varying projects. I have done somethings where Distance = Safety. Demolition. High Voltage Electricity.

Get your distance and stay safe.

I know too, she has mental issues, and with the alcohol, is just a really bad situation. But why is she so angry at me? She says she doesn't blame me, yet it sure seems so.
She is angry. You are there. Might as well dump on you.

You know the story of the Bear and the Rabbit?

Just to give an idea how bad it has been, she, apparently would drink rubbing alcohol. I couldn't keep any in the house. She even found some in the garage I had for cleaning things. Don't get me wrong, she can be a very kind and generous person, and is well liked by nearly all she meets. Help me to understand some of this?? And why I feel like this. Sorry for the long rant. Really blue today..
Living it here, too. Mrs. Hammer went down this time on Vanilla (yeah, no joke), followed with a severe Eating Disorder -- about four or five years -- as desert.

Mrs. Hammer is back from rehab about 6 months, now. Seems to be holding on, but the crazy just pops out any/everywhere. My daughter says we are "Dancing on a Crazy Time-Bomb."

Jad went into some of the details regarding BPD. Do you really understand that if that is what you are dealing with?
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:13 AM
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Thanks for those replies, you guys are the best. Guess I'm just feeling sorry for myself a bit. My emotions are all over the highway. I did just have a friend I haven't talked to in a few years call-that was great. The sad part of it though, I was going through this very same scenario the last time we talked. Man, do I need to get off the crazy train or what??

As far as the BPD, she had been to a few doctors, trying to figure it out, hence the Xanax at one time. I'm not a 100% sure, but her mother was Bi-polar, and she exhibits much of those traits as well. Its probably an overlapping of different disorders with the alcohol. Yeah, I hear you; vanilla, cooking sherry, rubbing alcohol, mouthwash, seen it all.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:27 PM
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(((((SoloJohn)))))

I was 9 years sober when I was diagnosed as a BiPolar. I had been becoming more and more miserable in my sobriety. Friends that I knew that had gotten sober when I did seemed to be having a pretty good life, and I was miserable.

It reached the point that I was asking at various meetings I went to if anyone knew of a good psych doctor because I was ready to be locked up in a straight jacket in a padded cell for the rest of my life.

Fortunately, I got the same name from several different people and I did go and see her. Worked with her for almost 8 years. She got my meds through trial and error literally to a good combination that is still working today. She was the one that I worked with to finally see that I started 'self medicating' at 12 1/2 years old and for years the alcohol and some drugs were what kept me functioning.

I find it interesting that a psych doc has been able to diagnose her when most reputable ones, that are familiar with alcoholism will not even work with an alcoholic until they are at a minimum 6 months sober and clean and preferably 1 year. Why? Because alcoholism can 'mimic' many other mental illnesses.

So whatever she is eventually diagnosed with, it is not your problem! It is her problem!

Focus on you, be nice to you. When you get up in the morning and look in the mirror, tell that person, I love you! every day! It does help us to change our ways of doing things, and in the process we become better folks. Kinder, thoughtful, caring, and compassionate human beings to our fellow man (be they a spouse, parent, sibling, cousin, friend, etc)

Figure out your personal boundaries. No you don't have to tell her, these are your boundaries just for you. Also figure out what you will do (walk away, hang up the phone, not respond to a text message or email, etc) and then do it. The more you practice these actions the better you will feel in time!

I am so glad to see you continue to post, it shows just how serious you are about you. Albeit confused, but very serious about your own recovery.

Thank you for being a part of SR!

Love and hugs,
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:31 PM
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Thank you Laurie. What you say about Bi-polar makes perfect sense. Whatever the exact disorder, it is very difficult to deal with. I think she uses the alcohol to deal with that. So far the medical community hasn't helped much, to be fair, I know its hard to know what to do, what works, what doesn't.

I've kept myself out of the picture so long, I don't really know how to focus on me. Between running the household, running a business (such as it is), taking care of my elderly parents, not much room for self, other than to fallout from exhaustion, LOL. Now I kind of stumble around the house not knowing what to do with myself. Of course, right now I'm sort of emotionally exhausted, so its kind of good not doing much. Hopefully I can re-charge a bit. Reading the posts here helps immensely. (please keep them coming, 'tis a highlight for me)
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:40 PM
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Dear Solo--how much help or support do you get to with your parents? Generally, what level of care do they require?? Being a care taker almost always results in exhaustion and a certain amount of burn-out. Quite often there are m ore services available--if one knows about it.

Just asking.......

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Old 06-01-2013, 06:29 PM
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Well my dad is blind, but mentally ok, my mom has dementia, but they are able to take care of themselves, except driving and so on. So I fix things around the house, and do groceries, meds, doctor visits, etc. Not a really big deal but on a regular basis. I go up every other week, is a 130 mile round trip all day affair. I've been trying to keep them in their house as long as possible. My wife did help out with other business, Medicare and such. Yes we've been looking for alternatives, but nothing decided upon so far. They're fairly resistant to change, if you know what I mean.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:42 PM
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Resistant to change is an understatement--if they are anything like m y 92yr. old mother (west virginia) was. She passed in Jan. I was able to get information on resources from The council On Aging in her area. They are good just to talk to. Fortunately, she was able to stay in her house--and she insisted on living alone!

She had a lady who came to the house 2x weekly and did the driving to Dr. and grocery shopping --and some light housework. She got meals on wheels after and emergency surgery for about 6wks.

With your wife and your parents--you have had more going out than com ing in. No wonder you are exhausted.

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