Trying to learn patience
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Trying to learn patience
Hello,
My AH has had two slips in two weeks. He went to detox (lived with my parents for 30 days afterwards because we all needed a break from his drunkenness - it was such a relief to not have to worry about finding him in a drunken stupor on the floor) and then he was sober for 60 days.
A day before he would get his 60 day chip he decided to celebrate early with 500ml of vodka.
He was back on track 24 hours afterwards - 30 more days clean but things started ramping up at work (his main trigger is work). I knew he was on the edge - I reminded him "you told me to tell you to call your sponsor when I start to see you spiral, please call your sponsor". For my mental sanity I had long removed his ability to drive the girls anyplace so they would be safe (he drove drunk with them in the car - once). He slipped again and did a five day binge of a bottle a day. This morning he went to a 0700 meeting.
In addition to his alcoholism he has really poor coping skills. His mom was undiagnosed bipolar for most of her adult life and her mental health issues and non-treatment of them did't exactly give him a good role model. His dad (being british) did the whole stiff upper lip reaction to everything that was occurring in the household.
He is trying. I'm trying to be patient. But patience is not one of my strongest skills.
I guess my first question (even though intellectually I know the answer) - is this a normal on/off part of recovery?
My second question - How can I learn patience?
I just have to say this forum has been amazing - I lurked for a while and decided to join recently. I'm glad I did.
My AH has had two slips in two weeks. He went to detox (lived with my parents for 30 days afterwards because we all needed a break from his drunkenness - it was such a relief to not have to worry about finding him in a drunken stupor on the floor) and then he was sober for 60 days.
A day before he would get his 60 day chip he decided to celebrate early with 500ml of vodka.
He was back on track 24 hours afterwards - 30 more days clean but things started ramping up at work (his main trigger is work). I knew he was on the edge - I reminded him "you told me to tell you to call your sponsor when I start to see you spiral, please call your sponsor". For my mental sanity I had long removed his ability to drive the girls anyplace so they would be safe (he drove drunk with them in the car - once). He slipped again and did a five day binge of a bottle a day. This morning he went to a 0700 meeting.
In addition to his alcoholism he has really poor coping skills. His mom was undiagnosed bipolar for most of her adult life and her mental health issues and non-treatment of them did't exactly give him a good role model. His dad (being british) did the whole stiff upper lip reaction to everything that was occurring in the household.
He is trying. I'm trying to be patient. But patience is not one of my strongest skills.
I guess my first question (even though intellectually I know the answer) - is this a normal on/off part of recovery?
My second question - How can I learn patience?
I just have to say this forum has been amazing - I lurked for a while and decided to join recently. I'm glad I did.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 70
Welcome Strife! Great to have you here and glad you posted 
As for your two questions:
1. I don't have an answer as to whether or not a 'slip' is normal. Perhaps that's one to address with a counsellor or someone from the detox centre. Other SR friends will have a view though!
2. Patience is tough, especially when you're mentally/emotionally and physically exhausted from living with an A. I know that in my case, I was living on an empty tank of gas and just felt like I couldn't muster the strength to keep going, let alone show compassion or patience - especially when I felt that my A was getting all the support in the world and I wasn't getting anything.
A couple of things helped me:
A) AlAnon. Regardless of whether or not my A is recovering, working a program, drunk or sober, I go to AlAnon. It's a fantastic support network o people who don't judge, know what I'm going through and share their experience, strength and hope that I can learn from. Applying the slogans is invaluable, especially on rough days.
B) Remembering that alcoholism is a disease. Just like cancer, AIDS, etc. the A is suffering from a disease. It takes very little to have compassion and patience for someone with cancer, but it can be harder with alcoholism because there's a view that the A contributed to their illness by picking up a bottle, but at the end of the day, both are diseases that need to be treated.
C) detaching with love. I didn't CAUSE the alcoholism, I can't CONTROL it and I can't CURE it (the 3 Cs). Whether or not the A gets help is his choice and his business, not mine. I can work on myself, keep living my life and live with serenity (which in turn gives me patience), regardless of the A's actions.
The only last thing I'd say is that patience comes with a caveat - that, as SR has taught me, unacceptable behaviour is unacceptable. I can have all the patience in the world, but verbal, emotional and physical abuse are simply not OK (to me, anyway). They're a few of my boundaries. So, while you can be patient and understanding, make sure you think about what your boundaries are and ensure that they're not overstepped.
Wishing you all the very best xxx
As for your two questions:
1. I don't have an answer as to whether or not a 'slip' is normal. Perhaps that's one to address with a counsellor or someone from the detox centre. Other SR friends will have a view though!
2. Patience is tough, especially when you're mentally/emotionally and physically exhausted from living with an A. I know that in my case, I was living on an empty tank of gas and just felt like I couldn't muster the strength to keep going, let alone show compassion or patience - especially when I felt that my A was getting all the support in the world and I wasn't getting anything.
A couple of things helped me:
A) AlAnon. Regardless of whether or not my A is recovering, working a program, drunk or sober, I go to AlAnon. It's a fantastic support network o people who don't judge, know what I'm going through and share their experience, strength and hope that I can learn from. Applying the slogans is invaluable, especially on rough days.
B) Remembering that alcoholism is a disease. Just like cancer, AIDS, etc. the A is suffering from a disease. It takes very little to have compassion and patience for someone with cancer, but it can be harder with alcoholism because there's a view that the A contributed to their illness by picking up a bottle, but at the end of the day, both are diseases that need to be treated.
C) detaching with love. I didn't CAUSE the alcoholism, I can't CONTROL it and I can't CURE it (the 3 Cs). Whether or not the A gets help is his choice and his business, not mine. I can work on myself, keep living my life and live with serenity (which in turn gives me patience), regardless of the A's actions.
The only last thing I'd say is that patience comes with a caveat - that, as SR has taught me, unacceptable behaviour is unacceptable. I can have all the patience in the world, but verbal, emotional and physical abuse are simply not OK (to me, anyway). They're a few of my boundaries. So, while you can be patient and understanding, make sure you think about what your boundaries are and ensure that they're not overstepped.
Wishing you all the very best xxx
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
My ABF went ten months without drinking and then went out one night and got wasted. Now he's two weeks sober again and finally regularly going to meetings.
I'm a lawyer, and I spend a lot of time arguing to judges on behalf of my clients about how relapse is part of recovery. And I have to believe that that's true, because I see it in my clients, at home, and on these boards all the time.
As for patience - I would worry more about taking care of yourself. That doesn't mean being impatient, but figure out what you can and cannot live with. I haven't been going to Al-anon meetings yet, but I've been checking these boards daily and listening to Al-Anon podcasts several times a week. It's been wonderfully helpful and has taught me a lot, even in such a short time. I'm a very controlling person, and repeating the tenets of Al Anon to myself has allowed me to relax, let go, and take care of myself. I obviously have a long way to go, but we all have to start somewhere, right?
Welcome!
I'm a lawyer, and I spend a lot of time arguing to judges on behalf of my clients about how relapse is part of recovery. And I have to believe that that's true, because I see it in my clients, at home, and on these boards all the time.
As for patience - I would worry more about taking care of yourself. That doesn't mean being impatient, but figure out what you can and cannot live with. I haven't been going to Al-anon meetings yet, but I've been checking these boards daily and listening to Al-Anon podcasts several times a week. It's been wonderfully helpful and has taught me a lot, even in such a short time. I'm a very controlling person, and repeating the tenets of Al Anon to myself has allowed me to relax, let go, and take care of myself. I obviously have a long way to go, but we all have to start somewhere, right?
Welcome!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear Strife, from my experience, I would say that relapses are more common than no relapse at all.. I recently stumbled onto a great website that has excellent description of early recovery--and what to expect. Written for the alcoholic and partner, as well. I believe it would be REALLY worth your reading, right now. The site is:
*** peggyferguson.marriage-family.com*** . It is a large website --so look for the section for addicted families--you will find several relevant articles there. She is a PHD psychologist who apparently has a boatload of experience.
I agree with the others--probably, boundrys and detachment would be the most helpful for you, right now. Sometimes, patience for the wrong things turns us into a doormat.
Glad you are here. Hang around!
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by bi11fish 
Relapse is not part of recovery it is a result of not working/doing a program of recovery.
Go to Alanon and learn to take care of yourself--your AH has a higher power and you ain't it.
Go to Alanon and learn to take care of yourself--your AH has a higher power and you ain't it.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Strife--you caused me to remember a saying that I love---"Nothing ruins a buzz like a head full of AA and a belly full of beer"
It doesn't necessarily mean that each period of sobriety was for nothing--if the person is really trying--a little is gained each time---it isn't completely back to square one, each time. It sounds like he is trying.
Still, it is REALLY hard on you. Detach;detach;detach--for your own welfare.
dandylion
It doesn't necessarily mean that each period of sobriety was for nothing--if the person is really trying--a little is gained each time---it isn't completely back to square one, each time. It sounds like he is trying.
Still, it is REALLY hard on you. Detach;detach;detach--for your own welfare.
dandylion
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I would put it this way. Relapse isn't part of recovery, but it IS part of the disease.
Saying it's a "normal part of recovery" I think gives the alcoholic a feeling that s/he gets a "pass" for dipping the toe back into the dangerous waters. I'm not saying it is uncommon or unusual, but it shouldn't be dismissed lightly, either. Not everyone makes it back after testing the waters again.
I think slips/relapses should be addressed by the alcoholic (and his/her sponsor) as serious events. Not that it is a moral issue--alcoholism is, I believe, a disease--but it is a serious practical issue that should be avoided at all costs. Every drink feeds the addiction and reinforces it. There is a reason alcoholics usually "restart the clock" when they have a slip or a relapse. The disease does, to some extent, "reset" when you have a drink.
Partners are in a tough situation when slips/relapses occur. On the one hand, they are common enough that they don't necessarily indicate a lack of effort or that the alcoholic will not "get it". On the other hand, some people just do that abstinence/drinking routine for years and years before they finally either recover or just go back to drinking full time. It's often difficult to assess which way the scales will tip.
The bottom line is that WE have to get well, regardless of what the alcoholic is doing. To the extent we can take our eyes off THEIR process and focus on our own, we will be better off whether the alcoholic recovers or not.
There is a lot of uncertainty in life. Dealing with alcoholics in early recovery is a more uncomfortable situation than most uncertain situations. But it's crucial that we learn to tolerate the uncertainty, even as we decide certain actions or circumstances are intolerable. It gets very zen-like.
Patience isn't my long suit, either, but I'm getting much better at it.
Saying it's a "normal part of recovery" I think gives the alcoholic a feeling that s/he gets a "pass" for dipping the toe back into the dangerous waters. I'm not saying it is uncommon or unusual, but it shouldn't be dismissed lightly, either. Not everyone makes it back after testing the waters again.
I think slips/relapses should be addressed by the alcoholic (and his/her sponsor) as serious events. Not that it is a moral issue--alcoholism is, I believe, a disease--but it is a serious practical issue that should be avoided at all costs. Every drink feeds the addiction and reinforces it. There is a reason alcoholics usually "restart the clock" when they have a slip or a relapse. The disease does, to some extent, "reset" when you have a drink.
Partners are in a tough situation when slips/relapses occur. On the one hand, they are common enough that they don't necessarily indicate a lack of effort or that the alcoholic will not "get it". On the other hand, some people just do that abstinence/drinking routine for years and years before they finally either recover or just go back to drinking full time. It's often difficult to assess which way the scales will tip.
The bottom line is that WE have to get well, regardless of what the alcoholic is doing. To the extent we can take our eyes off THEIR process and focus on our own, we will be better off whether the alcoholic recovers or not.
There is a lot of uncertainty in life. Dealing with alcoholics in early recovery is a more uncomfortable situation than most uncertain situations. But it's crucial that we learn to tolerate the uncertainty, even as we decide certain actions or circumstances are intolerable. It gets very zen-like.
Patience isn't my long suit, either, but I'm getting much better at it.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 585
Relapses certainly aren't rare. Not everyone relapses, but from the stories I hear here & elsewhere, many do. I've heard the analogy of dieting used...if you're on a diet and slip up and go on a bad-food binge, what happens next is what's important - do you say EFF IT and just keep eating badly, or do you get back on the healthy wagon? Obviously, it's best to not fall off that wagon in the first place, but if it happens, it doesn't mean there's no getting better.
As for patience? I'm still trying to learn that myself! It's never been my strength either, but as with many things, it gets better with time.
As for patience? I'm still trying to learn that myself! It's never been my strength either, but as with many things, it gets better with time.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by LexieCat
I would put it this way. Relapse isn't part of recovery, but it IS part of the disease.
Saying it's a "normal part of recovery" I think gives the alcoholic a feeling that s/he gets a "pass" for dipping the toe back into the dangerous waters. I'm not saying it is uncommon or unusual, but it shouldn't be dismissed lightly, either. Not everyone makes it back after testing the waters again.
I think slips/relapses should be addressed by the alcoholic (and his/her sponsor) as serious events. Not that it is a moral issue--alcoholism is, I believe, a disease--but it is a serious practical issue that should be avoided at all costs. Every drink feeds the addiction and reinforces it. There is a reason alcoholics usually "restart the clock" when they have a slip or a relapse. The disease does, to some extent, "reset" when you have a drink.
Partners are in a tough situation when slips/relapses occur. On the one hand, they are common enough that they don't necessarily indicate a lack of effort or that the alcoholic will not "get it". On the other hand, some people just do that abstinence/drinking routine for years and years before they finally either recover or just go back to drinking full time. It's often difficult to assess which way the scales will tip.
The bottom line is that WE have to get well, regardless of what the alcoholic is doing. To the extent we can take our eyes off THEIR process and focus on our own, we will be better off whether the alcoholic recovers or not.
There is a lot of uncertainty in life. Dealing with alcoholics in early recovery is a more uncomfortable situation than most uncertain situations. But it's crucial that we learn to tolerate the uncertainty, even as we decide certain actions or circumstances are intolerable. It gets very zen-like.
Patience isn't my long suit, either, but I'm getting much better at it.
Saying it's a "normal part of recovery" I think gives the alcoholic a feeling that s/he gets a "pass" for dipping the toe back into the dangerous waters. I'm not saying it is uncommon or unusual, but it shouldn't be dismissed lightly, either. Not everyone makes it back after testing the waters again.
I think slips/relapses should be addressed by the alcoholic (and his/her sponsor) as serious events. Not that it is a moral issue--alcoholism is, I believe, a disease--but it is a serious practical issue that should be avoided at all costs. Every drink feeds the addiction and reinforces it. There is a reason alcoholics usually "restart the clock" when they have a slip or a relapse. The disease does, to some extent, "reset" when you have a drink.
Partners are in a tough situation when slips/relapses occur. On the one hand, they are common enough that they don't necessarily indicate a lack of effort or that the alcoholic will not "get it". On the other hand, some people just do that abstinence/drinking routine for years and years before they finally either recover or just go back to drinking full time. It's often difficult to assess which way the scales will tip.
The bottom line is that WE have to get well, regardless of what the alcoholic is doing. To the extent we can take our eyes off THEIR process and focus on our own, we will be better off whether the alcoholic recovers or not.
There is a lot of uncertainty in life. Dealing with alcoholics in early recovery is a more uncomfortable situation than most uncertain situations. But it's crucial that we learn to tolerate the uncertainty, even as we decide certain actions or circumstances are intolerable. It gets very zen-like.
Patience isn't my long suit, either, but I'm getting much better at it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: ME
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by kasie
Welcome Strife! Great to have you here and glad you posted
As for your two questions:
A) AlAnon. Regardless of whether or not my A is recovering, working a program, drunk or sober, I go to AlAnon. It's a fantastic support network o people who don't judge, know what I'm going through and share their experience, strength and hope that I can learn from. Applying the slogans is invaluable, especially on rough days.
B) Remembering that alcoholism is a disease. Just like cancer, AIDS, etc. the A is suffering from a disease. It takes very little to have compassion and patience for someone with cancer, but it can be harder with alcoholism because there's a view that the A contributed to their illness by picking up a bottle, but at the end of the day, both are diseases that need to be treated.
C) detaching with love. I didn't CAUSE the alcoholism, I can't CONTROL it and I can't CURE it (the 3 Cs). Whether or not the A gets help is his choice and his business, not mine. I can work on myself, keep living my life and live with serenity (which in turn gives me patience), regardless of the A's actions.
Wishing you all the very best xxx
As for your two questions:
A) AlAnon. Regardless of whether or not my A is recovering, working a program, drunk or sober, I go to AlAnon. It's a fantastic support network o people who don't judge, know what I'm going through and share their experience, strength and hope that I can learn from. Applying the slogans is invaluable, especially on rough days.
B) Remembering that alcoholism is a disease. Just like cancer, AIDS, etc. the A is suffering from a disease. It takes very little to have compassion and patience for someone with cancer, but it can be harder with alcoholism because there's a view that the A contributed to their illness by picking up a bottle, but at the end of the day, both are diseases that need to be treated.
C) detaching with love. I didn't CAUSE the alcoholism, I can't CONTROL it and I can't CURE it (the 3 Cs). Whether or not the A gets help is his choice and his business, not mine. I can work on myself, keep living my life and live with serenity (which in turn gives me patience), regardless of the A's actions.
Wishing you all the very best xxx
A) AlAnon - I can't fit in my schedule. I work full time, have to do all the pick up/drop off for the girls because my AH is not allowed to drive anyone but himself. I'm in school for my masters and I play a sport two nights a week. I joined this group (and have a few friends with now sober spouses who have been helpful). So I joined this group.
B) Even though I'm a nurse I have to repeat this to myself like a mantra when I see my husband drunk. Thanks for the reminder. I may have to tattoo it on my hand!
C) This isn't an issue. When he was in detox we had a great family day and oneo f the speakers talked about AlAnon and the three Cs. I've taken them to heart. My life is great (work, school, the girls, my sport, my friends). But the parts of my life I share with my husband (shared hobbies, companionship, sex) are gone when he is drunk.
That's where patience or lack thereof comes in. When he is drunk he is a nonentity for me. But then those 30, 60 days of sobriety are awesome. Even the divorce lawyer I have spoken to (she has dealt with a lot of cases of divorcing for reasons of substance abuse) said to give him a chance to get sober since he is trying. Like I said patience is something I need to work on.
And to clarify he is not abusive or violent. He is a happy dumb-ass drunk with two OUIs.
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theseithakas, thanks for your post. I too am controlling not so much of people but I don't like someone or something getting in the way of the things I want to do or achieve.
BTW: Rugby fan? (I wast trying to figure out your profile picture)
BTW: Rugby fan? (I wast trying to figure out your profile picture)
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Dear Strife, from my experience, I would say that relapses are more common than no relapse at all.. I recently stumbled onto a great website that has excellent description of early recovery--and what to expect. Written for the alcoholic and partner, as well.I believe it would be REALLY worth your reading, right now. The site is:
*** peggyferguson.marriage-family.com*** . It is a large website --so look for the section for addicted families--you will find several relevant articles there. She is a PHD psychologist who apparently has a boatload of experience.
I agree with the others--probably, boundrys and detachment would be the most helpful for you, right now. Sometimes, patience for the wrong things turns us into a doormat.
Glad you are here. Hang around!
dandylion
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
patience isnt about what im doin about when im waiting; its about what im thinkin.
My apologies if I get your name wrong, they disappear when I click reply. I'm using the app and it doesn't have all the functionality of the website.
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So in trying to internalize "Alcoholism is a Disease" so it works most of the time I was thinking of a nursing analogy. I've had patients who are diabetics who do not do the things they need to do to keep their blood sugars under control. You can give them all the information (what would happen if they continued on this path, loss of eye sight, peripheral neuropathy, etc.). We would discover their level of motivation and their barriers.
Dandylion - thanks for the link. I found this and this "really spoke to me:
"Relationships can also recover as each person works on their own issues" and "Relapse is a common symptom of all addictions and all chronic illnesses."
(source: Peggy Ferguson from peggyfurgurson dot com)
Dandylion - thanks for the link. I found this and this "really spoke to me:
"Relationships can also recover as each person works on their own issues" and "Relapse is a common symptom of all addictions and all chronic illnesses."
(source: Peggy Ferguson from peggyfurgurson dot com)
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Originally Posted by Strife0412
Hello,
My AH has had two slips in two weeks. He went to detox (lived with my parents for 30 days afterwards because we all needed a break from his drunkenness - it was such a relief to not have to worry about finding him in a drunken stupor on the floor) and then he was sober for 60 days.
A day before he would get his 60 day chip he decided to celebrate early with 500ml of vodka.
He was back on track 24 hours afterwards - 30 more days clean but things started ramping up at work (his main trigger is work). I knew he was on the edge - I reminded him "you told me to tell you to call your sponsor when I start to see you spiral, please call your sponsor". For my mental sanity I had long removed his ability to drive the girls anyplace so they would be safe (he drove drunk with them in the car - once). He slipped again and did a five day binge of a bottle a day. This morning he went to a 0700 meeting.
My AH has had two slips in two weeks. He went to detox (lived with my parents for 30 days afterwards because we all needed a break from his drunkenness - it was such a relief to not have to worry about finding him in a drunken stupor on the floor) and then he was sober for 60 days.
A day before he would get his 60 day chip he decided to celebrate early with 500ml of vodka.
He was back on track 24 hours afterwards - 30 more days clean but things started ramping up at work (his main trigger is work). I knew he was on the edge - I reminded him "you told me to tell you to call your sponsor when I start to see you spiral, please call your sponsor". For my mental sanity I had long removed his ability to drive the girls anyplace so they would be safe (he drove drunk with them in the car - once). He slipped again and did a five day binge of a bottle a day. This morning he went to a 0700 meeting.
I kicked him out. My parents took him in. My cousin is visiting for the long weekend and he is staying with his daughter at my parents house and the plan was to go over tomorrow and monday and hang out with them. Ugh. I wont let my husband stop me from visiting my cousin and my parents, but still 'ugh'.
I asked him why he stopped working towards his sobriety and he just started crying. this was after the denial "I'm not drunk" and followed by the excuses "I have to get out of the house because of all the triggers". There is no alcohol in the house. His trigger is himself and the fact that he drives to the store to buy bottles of booze.
Anyway just wanted to share the update, and release my anger and disappointment by writing it out.
I'm off to finish cooking dinner and catch up on Game of Thrones.
Journey To Me
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Kyle, Texas
Posts: 395
Originally Posted by Strife0412
I asked him why he stopped working towards his sobriety and he just started crying. this was after the denial "I'm not drunk" and followed by the excuses "I have to get out of the house because of all the triggers". There is no alcohol in the house. His trigger is himself and the fact that he drives to the store to buy bottles of booze.
I am sorry for the resent disappointment, but I am glad you are keeping the focus on you.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
An alcoholic will deny they are drinking when they have a drink in their hand.
They have no (logical) recourse. They are in a never-ending war in their own brain--between themselves and the disease. A disease that is lying to them and distorting their reality---to give up drinking feels like death to them. A life and death battle. If they can't control the overwhelming compulsion to drink--they have to give some explanation. A poorly crafted, transparent lie is the best they can often do if they are to hold on to life--to drink. The act of a desperate person.
Alcoholics don't drink to deliberately hurt us. They drink because they are alcoholics who are not in recovery.
dandylion
They have no (logical) recourse. They are in a never-ending war in their own brain--between themselves and the disease. A disease that is lying to them and distorting their reality---to give up drinking feels like death to them. A life and death battle. If they can't control the overwhelming compulsion to drink--they have to give some explanation. A poorly crafted, transparent lie is the best they can often do if they are to hold on to life--to drink. The act of a desperate person.
Alcoholics don't drink to deliberately hurt us. They drink because they are alcoholics who are not in recovery.
dandylion
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
His trigger is himself and the fact that he drives to the store to buy bottles of booze.
I hope he gets it soon, it seems like you would be a great supporter, (not enabler) as in realistic about his disease.
It is a disease of denial.
I have said it several times while I was drunk "I am not that bad yet."
Yet is "You're Eligible Too."
Maybe not today, but tomorrow, all those yets are coming.
It is great you have a group of supportive friends. The isolation is what gets most people, feeling all alone in the world of happy people, but not being one.
It was an illusion I had, and I am glad I do not have it any more.
Beth
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