Sexual assault?
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Sexual assault?
First off, I apologize if my post comes off to graphic or offends anyone those aren't my intentions.This has been an issue that I have questioned to myself, have goggled and even communicated with friends. I have yet to receive a definite answer of a "yes" or "no". Why? I don't know you tell me.
When I was in relationship with alcoholic boyfriend everything came on his terms including sex. QUESTION: Their have been at least four times that I can remember that he would have sex with me while I was sleeping. For example: 6am in the morning I would get waken up by him having sex without my consent. During these times I was to tired/still half asleep to respond back therefore I would let him to do his thing. Is this considered sexual assault/abuse/rape?
When I was in relationship with alcoholic boyfriend everything came on his terms including sex. QUESTION: Their have been at least four times that I can remember that he would have sex with me while I was sleeping. For example: 6am in the morning I would get waken up by him having sex without my consent. During these times I was to tired/still half asleep to respond back therefore I would let him to do his thing. Is this considered sexual assault/abuse/rape?
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Originally Posted by Gisele 
First off, I apologize if my post comes off to graphic or offends anyone those aren't my intentions.This has been an issue that I have questioned to myself, have goggled and even communicated with friends. I have yet to receive a definite answer of a "yes" or "no". Why? I don't know you tell me.
When I was in relationship with alcoholic boyfriend everything came on his terms including sex. QUESTION: Their have been at least four times that I can remember that he would have sex with me while I was sleeping. For example: 6am in the morning I would get waken up by him having sex without my consent. During these times I was to tired/still half asleep to respond back therefore I would let him to do his thing. Is this considered sexual assault/abuse/rape?
When I was in relationship with alcoholic boyfriend everything came on his terms including sex. QUESTION: Their have been at least four times that I can remember that he would have sex with me while I was sleeping. For example: 6am in the morning I would get waken up by him having sex without my consent. During these times I was to tired/still half asleep to respond back therefore I would let him to do his thing. Is this considered sexual assault/abuse/rape?
Whether a court of law would judge it as rape is a different question.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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This is a tough one. How did it make you feel? I think it's clear that this was an unhealthy relationship, but if you're asking if this fits some legal definition of sexual assault, without mire information, I can't be sure. Did you convey to him in some way that you weren't consenting? You don't necessarily have to actively not consent in order for his actions to fall under the purview of assault, but it's definitely something that would be explored in a court of law.
If you're asking to try to figure out how to feel about it, look within. Do you feel taken advantage of? Did you feel like it was abuse? I suspect you already know the answers to those questions.
If you're asking to try to figure out how to feel about it, look within. Do you feel taken advantage of? Did you feel like it was abuse? I suspect you already know the answers to those questions.
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Yes. Been there. Let it happen because it felt less frightening than the Hell that would break loose if I tried to fight it. You're not alone.
Whether you can successfully take it to court is another issue. What proves abuse is often in a different universe than what the law defines as abuse. Which in turn is only a small part of what really constitutes abuse.
Whether you can successfully take it to court is another issue. What proves abuse is often in a different universe than what the law defines as abuse. Which in turn is only a small part of what really constitutes abuse.
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You did not give your consent and therefore it is rape.
Here is a link that has an overview of California's rape laws.
California Rape Laws - FindLaw
It doesn't matter that he was your boyfriend and it doesn't matter that you had consented to sex in the past. All that matters is that THOSE times you did not consent to sex. The link that I posted even mentions that it is rape if the person was asleep.
Here is a link that has an overview of California's rape laws.
California Rape Laws - FindLaw
It doesn't matter that he was your boyfriend and it doesn't matter that you had consented to sex in the past. All that matters is that THOSE times you did not consent to sex. The link that I posted even mentions that it is rape if the person was asleep.
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Weelll, it gets a little bit tricky when you are in a relationship having sex on a regular basis and sleeping in the same bed. Usually the defendant would have to know you have not consented. It might be necessary, in such a case, for him to know that such an act is not OK with you. Did you ever tell him later that he should not do that? Or, let's say you kicked him out of the bedroom for the night and you wake up and he is doing that. In that case, it would not be reasonable for him to believe you consented.
Certainly, if you felt violated, you should get whatever counseling you need. And I certainly agree that in a highly controlling relationship, many acts are abusive, especially acts like this. Proving it legally is very challenging, however.
Why are you asking? Are you considering filing criminal charges or a lawsuit? I suggest that you first contact a domestic violence advocate who might be able to help you sort out whether something like that is in your best interest. Such an advocate can also refer you to resources that can help you recover from an abusive relationship.
Glad you are out of that relationship, now.
Certainly, if you felt violated, you should get whatever counseling you need. And I certainly agree that in a highly controlling relationship, many acts are abusive, especially acts like this. Proving it legally is very challenging, however.
Why are you asking? Are you considering filing criminal charges or a lawsuit? I suggest that you first contact a domestic violence advocate who might be able to help you sort out whether something like that is in your best interest. Such an advocate can also refer you to resources that can help you recover from an abusive relationship.
Glad you are out of that relationship, now.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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During these times I was to tired/still half asleep to respond back therefore I would let him to do his thing.
Perhaps if you were not of your full mental capacity (i.e. drugged, passed out drunk, etc), I would think differently. But if someone starts having sex with me while I am still asleep, I can assure you that I am no longer in a deep enough sleep to not say NO.
Did you feel this way when you were with your ABF? Or did these feelings start after you separated?
Either way, if you are hurt or traumitized by this, I would recommend talking to a counselor about it. By no means am I saying your feelings aren't warranted- they are yours. But from my opinion, this one is in a pretty gray area.
No flaming please, I am not trying to start a battle.......
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Crazed, that's what I was saying about a person having to know that there was lack of consent. The laws (and their interpretation) differ from state to state. But of course, being able to prove a crime (or civil wrong) is a different issue from whether a wrong was committed. And, of course, whether someone was hurt by it.
One of the principles we try to teach in workshops on sexual violence is that it's ALWAYS best to ask someone before taking ANY kind of liberties. Our culture has romanticized elements of force for a very long time. Kids should be taught when they are of an age to date that force or anything without someone's express consent is wrong. Asking someone if something is OK is the right thing to do, and makes sure both parties are on the same page.
One of the principles we try to teach in workshops on sexual violence is that it's ALWAYS best to ask someone before taking ANY kind of liberties. Our culture has romanticized elements of force for a very long time. Kids should be taught when they are of an age to date that force or anything without someone's express consent is wrong. Asking someone if something is OK is the right thing to do, and makes sure both parties are on the same page.
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Crazed, I'm not directing this at you personally - it's just something that comes up over and over when ever people talk about sexual violence or violations. Like Lexie said, there's a culture of "taking" that is... Sick.
I'm appalled that anyone can even consider using another human being's body to masturbate in. That's what you do when you penetrate a person who has for whatever reason not expressely told you they want this interaction. You demean their value as a sentient being and use them simply because you have the power to.
Sometimes I think rape should be prosecuted under physical assault. Because nobody would ask a woman "well, did you make it clear to him that you did not want him slamming your face into the brick wall? I mean, how else would he know you weren't in on it? Maybe you used to like it back then?"
I was sexually violated in my marriage for years. I could not label it rape in my mind because i stopped saying no. Because my AXH would be abusive to the kids if I refused his sexual advances. It would get worse and worse and I learned that it was easier to let him violate my body for three minutes than to defend the kids for however many days he decided to punish them for me not "doing my wifely duties."
i don't recommend this survival strategy. I still can't touch my own body in the shower without nausea. I have a hard time with any kind of touch. Crowded stores where you rub shoulders with people give me panic attacks. It's a different kind of reaction than if you've been raped by a stranger, I'm told. Because you constantly feel like somehow, it was your fault and you deserved it. It screws with your mind and emotions on a level that's hell to get straight.
Sex should involve two people if two people are involved in the act. Period. If the other person only "doesn't seem to mind an awful lot" you really should slam your own face into the wall and see if you can smack some sense into it.
I'm appalled that anyone can even consider using another human being's body to masturbate in. That's what you do when you penetrate a person who has for whatever reason not expressely told you they want this interaction. You demean their value as a sentient being and use them simply because you have the power to.
Sometimes I think rape should be prosecuted under physical assault. Because nobody would ask a woman "well, did you make it clear to him that you did not want him slamming your face into the brick wall? I mean, how else would he know you weren't in on it? Maybe you used to like it back then?"
I was sexually violated in my marriage for years. I could not label it rape in my mind because i stopped saying no. Because my AXH would be abusive to the kids if I refused his sexual advances. It would get worse and worse and I learned that it was easier to let him violate my body for three minutes than to defend the kids for however many days he decided to punish them for me not "doing my wifely duties."
i don't recommend this survival strategy. I still can't touch my own body in the shower without nausea. I have a hard time with any kind of touch. Crowded stores where you rub shoulders with people give me panic attacks. It's a different kind of reaction than if you've been raped by a stranger, I'm told. Because you constantly feel like somehow, it was your fault and you deserved it. It screws with your mind and emotions on a level that's hell to get straight.
Sex should involve two people if two people are involved in the act. Period. If the other person only "doesn't seem to mind an awful lot" you really should slam your own face into the wall and see if you can smack some sense into it.
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It's nearly impossible to prosecute, call it whatever you want. Really. I'm a rape survivor and a sexual assault survivor advocate and I really think agonizing over what to call it -- which is really common among survivors and bystanders alike -- is besides the point. Most people are hard pressed to believe that rape happens at all, and they can only conceive of it as a "stranger in the bushes" kind of event. Everything and everyone else is suspect.
Bollocks to that.
Fact is, he didn't care what you thought or felt and wasn't concerned about your participation or consent. What kind of guy does that? A bad one. You deserve better, no matter what it's called.
Bollocks to that.
Fact is, he didn't care what you thought or felt and wasn't concerned about your participation or consent. What kind of guy does that? A bad one. You deserve better, no matter what it's called.
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Originally Posted by Florence
It's nearly impossible to prosecute, call it whatever you want. Really. I'm a rape survivor and a sexual assault advocate and I really think agonizing over what to call it -- which is really common among survivors -- is besides the point.
The lawyers and judges have to agonize over legal definitions, but it really doesn't change the experience for the survivor. Sometimes it helps to understand the legalities for purposes of a civil or criminal court case--just to know why something can't be pursued or why the outcome was what it was. But it doesn't change what actually happened or whether you were harmed--and that is the most critical thing to focus on for purposes of healing.
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In English Law, the CPS Legal Sentencing Manual explains what is legally 'likely' to be viewed as assault / rape. It also shows how there is seldom a black and white 'case', but before reading it (if you do) be warned - it obviously discusses very sensitive subjects and in a (necessarily) disinterested manner.
It's such a complex 'area' and attitudes / laws etc towards sexual assault (like child abuse) are changeable, so context should always be taken into consideration. While what you experienced probably happened while current laws were in-place, context, current attitudes and culture etc all remain important because often how we feel about a potential crime is formed according to current laws, attitudes and our culture. In turn, how we feel or how an 'incident' or group of experiences affects us can be taken into account in assessing whether a rape has taken place.
Example - I wrote a dissertation while I was a student which discussed child abuse. During the time I took to write it, the laws changed to reflect more modern attitudes towards child discipline. According to the 'new' or 'updated' laws, the subjects in my paper who wouldn't have been legally understood as 'abuse victims' up until then suddenly became abuse victims, despite the fact no new 'incidents' had taken place. Then, it became important to understand the time in which what happened to them did - for some of them it finally meant they felt able to justifiably feel and deal with the pain, as they always felt abused. For others it changed nothing. And for some it made them think in a new and not always positive way about things they could 'accept' when the law told them that was all there was to do.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, you can drive y'self crazy if you're trying to work out what has happened in order to try and 'feel appropriately' about it, but if you feel a certain way already, getting a legal point of view can sometimes help reassure you that its OK to feel that way in order to come to terms with it so you can move on.
Depends on the person, like most things.
It's such a complex 'area' and attitudes / laws etc towards sexual assault (like child abuse) are changeable, so context should always be taken into consideration. While what you experienced probably happened while current laws were in-place, context, current attitudes and culture etc all remain important because often how we feel about a potential crime is formed according to current laws, attitudes and our culture. In turn, how we feel or how an 'incident' or group of experiences affects us can be taken into account in assessing whether a rape has taken place.
Example - I wrote a dissertation while I was a student which discussed child abuse. During the time I took to write it, the laws changed to reflect more modern attitudes towards child discipline. According to the 'new' or 'updated' laws, the subjects in my paper who wouldn't have been legally understood as 'abuse victims' up until then suddenly became abuse victims, despite the fact no new 'incidents' had taken place. Then, it became important to understand the time in which what happened to them did - for some of them it finally meant they felt able to justifiably feel and deal with the pain, as they always felt abused. For others it changed nothing. And for some it made them think in a new and not always positive way about things they could 'accept' when the law told them that was all there was to do.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, you can drive y'self crazy if you're trying to work out what has happened in order to try and 'feel appropriately' about it, but if you feel a certain way already, getting a legal point of view can sometimes help reassure you that its OK to feel that way in order to come to terms with it so you can move on.
Depends on the person, like most things.
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Wow! I'm sry to hear that Gisele & kudos to you for sharing about it & not being ashamed. Its NOT @ all graphic-u shared it perfectly.
I agree w/ Maylie...the past doesn't matter & in my view of this & seen in other people, it will only get worse & actually u're physical safety will be in danger later on since u've "allowed it to happen". I DON'T MEAN U CONSENTED BUT U DIDN'T BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF AUTHORITIES. Wish you well & hope you take appropriate action now.
I agree w/ Maylie...the past doesn't matter & in my view of this & seen in other people, it will only get worse & actually u're physical safety will be in danger later on since u've "allowed it to happen". I DON'T MEAN U CONSENTED BUT U DIDN'T BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF AUTHORITIES. Wish you well & hope you take appropriate action now.
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Giselle, yes. I believe it qualifies as SA. You did not consent. You had no chance to give consent. And I would say that just because you were together, sleeping in the same bed, that does not equate to automatic consent. It is one thing to be woken up with amorous kisses, it is quite another to be woken up by being penetrated.
Unfortunately, legally prosecuting ANY rape is a cr-p shoot. And secondary wounding is rampant even in stranger rape cases. "Why we're you walking alone there?" "Why were you wearing that dress?" "But you smiled at him and accepted the drink while at the bar." And the numbers of rape by known assaillants far out number those so-called "real" rapes by strangers. The National Institute of Justice notes that 85-90% of SA's reported by college women are where the victim knows their attacker.
So, I feel it's important (and very sadly so) that SA survivors not look to legal venues to feel supported and definitely do not rely on those venues for confirmation that what the attacker did was wrong.
I was SA'd by AXH often. I didn't call it that until a counsellor who specializes in addictions, who I was seeing to learn how to communicate with my AXH, told me to contact the local DV and rape crisis advocates. He was my husband. He told me that since I was his, and he loved me so much.... He loved me so much... He didn't need my consent because he was entitled to it. And yes I was woken up several times with him already penetrating. He didn't need me awake before he was ready and when he was ready, he started.
It doesn't matter that I woke up while he was already ---- or ------- or that I was his wife. I. Did. Not. Consent.
Online, Pandora's Aquarium is a wonderful support for SA survivors. Aphrodite Wounded provides support specifically for survivors of intimate partner rape, and is connected to Pandora's. A local rape crisis line can also provide support. In Alaska, it's STAR ( Standing Together Against Rape). Local DV advocates can also point you to resources. RAINN is also a good resource.
Sending hugs if OK to any survivors, and if hugs aren't OK, sitting with you and I understand.
Unfortunately, legally prosecuting ANY rape is a cr-p shoot. And secondary wounding is rampant even in stranger rape cases. "Why we're you walking alone there?" "Why were you wearing that dress?" "But you smiled at him and accepted the drink while at the bar." And the numbers of rape by known assaillants far out number those so-called "real" rapes by strangers. The National Institute of Justice notes that 85-90% of SA's reported by college women are where the victim knows their attacker.
So, I feel it's important (and very sadly so) that SA survivors not look to legal venues to feel supported and definitely do not rely on those venues for confirmation that what the attacker did was wrong.
I was SA'd by AXH often. I didn't call it that until a counsellor who specializes in addictions, who I was seeing to learn how to communicate with my AXH, told me to contact the local DV and rape crisis advocates. He was my husband. He told me that since I was his, and he loved me so much.... He loved me so much... He didn't need my consent because he was entitled to it. And yes I was woken up several times with him already penetrating. He didn't need me awake before he was ready and when he was ready, he started.
It doesn't matter that I woke up while he was already ---- or ------- or that I was his wife. I. Did. Not. Consent.
Online, Pandora's Aquarium is a wonderful support for SA survivors. Aphrodite Wounded provides support specifically for survivors of intimate partner rape, and is connected to Pandora's. A local rape crisis line can also provide support. In Alaska, it's STAR ( Standing Together Against Rape). Local DV advocates can also point you to resources. RAINN is also a good resource.
Sending hugs if OK to any survivors, and if hugs aren't OK, sitting with you and I understand.
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Thank you everyone for all your kinds words and advice. I'm in no way shape or form thinking of prosecuting. That experience had just always left me feeling that it was WRONG. Thank goodness I'm no longer in that relationship and now know that sex should be mutually consented and initiated in a loving way.
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I am probably setting myself up for an assualt here, and should hold my tongue, but this is an impartial forum, right? Take what you want and leave the rest... So here goes-
I guess I take offense to the conclusions on this thread. So I will go out on a limb- In the past I have snuggled up with EXAG, and in early morning hours have had sex with her (she wasn't drugged, medicated, intoxicated, etc, just a normal night of sleeping). It takes work. First there is the necessity to get out of clothes (or at least partially) for 2 people. And then there is positioning. And then penetration. And then the physical act. And not to be too graphic, but there may even be cleanup. This may have happened with her back to me- without us having a conversation. She did not formally consent through declaration. And she did not NOT consent. So I am now guilty of sexual assault?
I am not saying that what he did was right or wrong. I wasn't there and can only go by the brief description that was provided. Again, your feelings are yours- you were there, we were not. I just would like to not jump to conculsions before we condemn this guy as a rapist.
With all of the things that need to take place to make sex (with penetration) successful -can someone really sleep through the whole thing and have no chance to give or deny consent?
How can we arrive at this conclusion? If she said no, or made any attempt to stop it, then I would agree. By her own admission, she didn't. If she truly slept through it all (maybe she was on Ambien, Sleep-inducing antidepressants, etc), then my attitude would be different.
And if anyone here can sleep through an entire sexual act (including penetration), please let me know how. I wake up when the refrigerator compressor goes on two rooms away from my bedroom, and would like to know your secret.
I guess I take offense to the conclusions on this thread. So I will go out on a limb- In the past I have snuggled up with EXAG, and in early morning hours have had sex with her (she wasn't drugged, medicated, intoxicated, etc, just a normal night of sleeping). It takes work. First there is the necessity to get out of clothes (or at least partially) for 2 people. And then there is positioning. And then penetration. And then the physical act. And not to be too graphic, but there may even be cleanup. This may have happened with her back to me- without us having a conversation. She did not formally consent through declaration. And she did not NOT consent. So I am now guilty of sexual assault?
I am not saying that what he did was right or wrong. I wasn't there and can only go by the brief description that was provided. Again, your feelings are yours- you were there, we were not. I just would like to not jump to conculsions before we condemn this guy as a rapist.
You had no chance to give consent.
he didn't care what you thought or felt and wasn't concerned about your participation or consent
And if anyone here can sleep through an entire sexual act (including penetration), please let me know how. I wake up when the refrigerator compressor goes on two rooms away from my bedroom, and would like to know your secret.
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