Archangelesk

My in-laws and I told my husband together that we were deeply concerned for his physical and mental well-being and about his abuse of alcohol. I told him that I have been trying for well over a year to communicate to him that things are falling apart, but they he just seems to withdraw more and more and that the fact that he will not address this issues with his anger, maladaptive coping skills, emotional abuse or the general stagnation of his life have left me with no choice but to file for divorce and for exclusive possession of the home.

(Just as background, he graduated from law school, failed the bar, watches the kids while I am at work and contributes in no other way to the household, which is falling apart. He does sometimes show up to pick a fight - but I stopped engaging in that with a fairly high level of success well over a year ago. He categorically denies that he has any issues).

He remained very calm. And I think I am about to find out what real psychological warfare is like. He has grabbed onto every position that I have born of compassion or compromise and decided to fight it.

1)
Me -I love you. I think we need help, and since you won't join me in seeking it, we need to live apart and should work out a plan to make that happen equitably. I don't want to end our marriage, but I do not feel I have a choice because this is unhealthy and I am only enabling us to stay that way, if I take no action.

Him - You are the one who needs help because you are crazy and just trying to control me. You are defaming me with malicious intent so that you can ruin my life, take my home and my kids. I will fight you every step of the way.

2)
Me - Your behaviors are not acceptable and you will not address them. You have dropped out of our family life, you have stopped even thinking about yoru career plans, the house is in complete disrepair and you are anger, irritable and appear to be coping with alcohol.

Him - I spend tons of time with my family - with my kids. Just not with you because you are so mean and nasty. I am not investing in this life with you, in the house or anything else because what is the point, you are blowing it all up. And I just offered to make a deal with you to have a dry house. But you wouldn't make the deal, so you are the one with a problem with alcohol.

3)
Me - A dry house does not address the underlying issues behind why you drink, or stay up all night on the internet or isolate yourself in one room.

Him - You just don't want to compromise. You just want to control me.

4)
Me - We should talk about how we can co-parent effectively and make this as easy as possible on the kids.

Him - You and I are going to communicate as little as possible, because you are no longer a member of my family and I cannot trust you. I am going to have to start talking to the kids about divorce.

5)
Me - There is no reason to say anything to the children until we have something to tell them. We can work out what we will say to them together that causes the least amount of distress.

Him - That is not how this works, I am going to start talking to them now. (They are 1.5 and 3.5).

6)
Me - You family is here to support us and it is beneficial to have people who love us offer us objective opinions.

Him - They are going to have to choose. If they want to spend time with you, they will have to choose not to see me.

7)
Me - We have a lot of decisions to make, and we should sit down and shift through these things thoughtfully and make a plan. We will both be more happy with the result, and save a great deal in legal fees and/or use a collaborative divorce process.

Him - That is why we have lawyers, so we can fight. We are going to war.

So. Deep breaths. I knew this was the likely result. One day at a time. I can't let the threats get to me. I can't let fear get to me. All this proves is that this was the right thing to do. This marriage is toxic, he is extremely unhealthy and I need to get out.

Tuffgirl

Wow! Well, for what its worth, I heard similar things in my alcoholism-fueled short-lived marriage. Especially the control part.

Ok, so let things marinate for a bit and see what happens. You were actually pretty nice about it all. I just packed up and moved out one night. Not that I hadn't been hinting about it for a while, but it still was a very abrupt maneuver.

Do you have a lawyer already?

I am very sorry for you - so many posters talk of miserable divorces where the alcoholic is extremely bitter and punitive. To avoid that, I simply took what I already owned and walked away. Luckily for me, I can afford to do that, and we had no kids to fight over or keep in contact about.

You will need some support in real life. Going to Al-Anon? Therapy? Have a good support system?

Prayers today,
~T

DirtyRiverMan

Sorry to hear it.

Be sure to keep a recorder with you and the next time he is really drunk, get him on tape. Than show it to the judge.

I hope everything works out in your favor and thanks for reminding me why I have stayed single for the last 12 years!

wanttobehealthy

I am sorry for what you are going through

If nothing else, at least A's are predictable. Does it help at all to know that my xAH said and continues to say all the same things as yours? Unfortunately he HAS made it into a war but that's bc his mom is funding it. If your inlaws are sane as it sounds they are, I bet you that your AH's words are just posturing...

LexieCat

Illegal in PA unless a crime is about to be committed.

ALWAYS check your state's wiretap law before recording someone without their knowledge.

honeypig

Archangel, SO sorry it has come to this w/your AH. You sound like you have thought things through and are as prepared as it's possible to be. May the powers that be watch over you and your kids as you move towards sanity and safety. I have nothing else to offer but my sincere wishes that the damage is minimal and that you are soon able to start healing up your life and your family, altho it sounds as if it will be a tough march to get there. Stay strong, stay calm!

Jazzman

Divorce is tough enough without an active addict panicking over how a divorce might negatively impact their drinking. There is life on the other side, stay vigilant to help your kids navigate the chaos of an alcoholic parent.

Tryingtoletgo3

What is it with alcoholics and warfare in the process of a divorce? Just stay in control of the situation and don't let him engage you in any conflict. It sounds like he reacted in typical AH fashion. Im not sure about PA, but in my state they put a huge emphasis on both parents being a part of the childrens lives and would look down on his view that the kids need to pick. It is sad that the warfare has to involve the kids. I know personally I would give anything for my STBXAH to be decent and honest about our boys and just do what is obviously right to everyone other than him and his family. Having kids in the middle of it all makes it so much harder. You have taken the first big step. Just keep your head up and keep moving forward. There is light at the end of the tunnel!

wicked

I hope for you, your children and is own parents he gets his head out of his @ss, but, he sounds pretty muffled from here.

Exactly, and I am sorry it has come to this for you and his family.

Wow, he would make them choose? Between him and their own grandchildren?
Like a Shakespearean drama, geez, drunks (I am one ) can be so dang dramatic.

I gotta tell ya, my son knows when it comes to my grandchild,
her needs are light-years ahead of his need for self-destruction.

Amazing what a drunk will say when cornered and his way of life (not working and drinking all the time) is threatened.

I heard many, many threats. Some of them scared me, but when I look back I realized it was an addict standing there having a tantrum.

It takes more than talk to get what he wants.
It will take much more. Like money.

Most alcoholics even if they have the smarts or the money,
do not have the follow through it takes to file papers on time,
get to mediation meetings (sober) or make a valid case for custody.

Calling it a "war" does not look good for him. We are talking about dividing assets and a fair custody agreement, war is about loss and death.
Not good talk for family court.

He is behaving very badly, but you were expecting this (even though I hoped for an aha! moment when I gave my ex the divorce news).

He would choose a war with his own parents rather than work out a reasonable agreement for the whole family to have peace.

Keep strong Archangelesk. Keep getting support and reaching out, we are always here.



Beth

EnglishGarden

I think trying to communicate with him from this point forward would be futile and only inflame his rage and aggression. All alcoholics become enraged and aggressive when someone tries to intervene in their relationship with alcohol, but very intelligent professional successful alcoholics are often particularly dangerous and actually enjoy the potential "war". It feeds their self-righteousness, it makes them feel even more powerful in their addict thinking, and it builds more resentment in them which fuels their justification for drinking.

If I were in your situation, I would start individual weekly counseling, I would start weekly attendance at Al-Anon. And I would divorce this man. He is, it seems to me, intent on subjugating you and using your children as emotional ammunition. I would not try, in any way, to work things out with him one on one. You are outmatched. I was married to an extremely intelligent and successful alcoholic and I know. In active addiction, the alcoholic is ruthless. Protect yourself. Stop trying to make peace with him. It will not happen.

dandylion

Dear Archangel, It sounds like a lot of posturing--assuming that he can intimidate you.

He is doing what active alcoholics do--defending his ability to drink. To the alcoholic, it feels like life and death.

Your support system will be so important for you. We are here for you.

sincerely, dandylion

Maylie

I'm sorry that he is not being corporative, but yet again.. you knew this was prob. how it was going to end up.

You are right though, his reactions and responses only further prove that what you are doing is the right thing. Is immaturity really shows through his responses and that he is not capable of being rational. He is also being extremely spiteful which shows in how he has decided to go against taking the reasonable route with talking to the kids about the divorce. It makes me shudder to think how he is going to explain all this to your small children. I would keep an ear out to make sure that he doesn't try to turn the older one against you or bad mouth you. It is disgusting how some people try to use the children to get back at the other when children are just innocent victims to the situation.

Do you go to counseling? It might help to find a counselor you trust right about now so when he really starts with the emotional/financial/ legal warfare you have an outlet to express what you are feeling and a professional is a good objective person to give feedback and listen. I would also prepare yourself for the emotional abuse that usually comes with an irate alcoholic or drug addict.

You will make it through this and I have a feeling the more he fights you the more you will realize that this is a necessary step in order to achieve happiness. He will try to make you doubt yourself, try to make you think you are crazy, try to turn others against you, he'll lie til he is blue in the face, etc. etc. but all you can do is trust yourself and know that you are stronger than you think and you WILL make it through this!!

atalose

Archangelest,

I think you are making the best decision you can for yourself!! And like you said you are not surprised of his reaction.

Alcoholics are equally controlling, it’s not just us codies. They want to live status quo and continue to drink uninterrupted and non accountable. They want no label such as alcoholic and will defend it all even at the cost of cutting off their own nose to spite their face.

Now add to that some knowledge he has of law “words” and idle threats and take both with a grain of salt. The more out of control they feel the more they will try and control. Manipulation, threats, what ever they find handy at the moment.

Have you had any legal advise so far, gone to see any attorneys? That may help you by giving you an idea of what you are looking at and how you should proceed and what rights do you have when it comes to him and crap.

stella27

Mine was and is exactly the same as yours. Exactly.

Like you said, this is how you know you're doing the right thing.

Archangelesk

Thank you, everyone, for the support. English Garden is correct. I am outmatched. And I need to stop trying to make peace with this man. He is planning to spend the rest of his life hurting me as much as possible.

To answer everyone's concern about my support system. Yes, I have a very experienced attorney representing me. I am an attorney as well (not family law). And more than half of my best friends are attorneys. So, I have excellent help building a strategy. I just need to get over my profound desire to come to equitable agreement. I think I am going to pass that part along to my attorney - here is the fair things I want. Do whatever posturing is necessary to get it done, the best you can. And I need to step the heck out of the way and stop talking to him as much as possible.

I am attending Al-Anon and induvidual therapy. And I am keeping my head screwed on straight by reading your stories here.

I am also trying very hard not to fret too far forward. More ugly is coming my way, I am sure. So I should not dwell on it. Things I need to let go of for now:

Worry over what he will say to the kids;
Custody;
Whether I win this hearing and he has to leave the house, or I end up having to move out;
Worry that I am not doing enough to help him see the light and get help;
Just what of my things is he going to try to claim just to goad me, and can I graciously just let it all go;
The fact that we have one van, 1 year old, and there is no way I can manage to buy a 2nd;
This crazy fantasy I have that he will go live in a property we own 2 blocks away and coparent pleasantly and share the use of the van.

amy55

I just typed out a whole reply and lost it.

Will try to remember.

I read your post several times before I could respond to it. What I was seeing in there was that you husband had already declared a psychological war on you awhile back, not just now. He just said it out loud now.

He was already giving you the "silent treatment, already ignoring you, withdrawing from you. He had already convinced himself that you are the "enemy".

So, you have some practice on how to ignore this. He probably started to do this when he realized that you were getting stronger. He saw this as a threat to his livelihood, and his life style.

What I would be most concerned about are the children. He will try to manipulate them. Does he have his own money? Can you cut off his access to your money where it would not look bad for you in court? He may try to "buy" the children. What I mean by that is to take them out for ice cream, take them to amusement parks, etc, then say things like "mommy doesn't have time for you, and didn't you have a good time today at the park with me? He will say things like that right in front of you.

He will find the "buttons" to push. My children are older and were all living on their own, and that bought that tactic, hook, line, and sinker.

He had my kids thinking I was "crazy".

My ex at one time when he was somewhat "rational?" (lol) that if we were fighting, that he considered me the "enemy" and he would do whatever and say whatever, just to break me down, and that is how you fight.

Just beware !!!!!!

If he gives you any reason at all where you can get a restraining order, go for it. He does not have to hit you for this. A restraining order is the only way to get him out of the house.

I do hope that I am not scaring you, or giving you additional worries or anxiety. You are a strong person and you will get through this.

PS - If he tries the "nice act", don't fall for it. It is just one of his tactics....

fedup3

Archangelesk, I found that the less I talked to my XAH before the divorce two yrs ago the more stable my thinking became. If you read over what you wrote it totally seems like you were have a conversation with a child. I hope your husband was like mine where he talked big but he couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag!

amy55

I was posting without reading your last reply.

You may be "outmatched" in an argument with him, or a discussion with him, I swear when I had those, my head felt like it was spinning like in that movie the "exorcist".

but

you are not "outmatched" in your sanity.

LexieCat

Hey, Arch,

Just remember, you're not only dealing with an alcoholic, but one who is (a) a lawyer and, hence, even more wired than your average drunk to the concept of "doing battle," and (b) a man who, all protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, is probably feeling very defensive because YOU are the one with the legal career.

Realistically? My bet is that well over half of what you are seeing is posturing. I got a lot of "demands" from my second husband when we divorced, and my last S.O. when we split up and sold the property we owned together (he wasn't an alcoholic, but he was prone to making all kinds of pronouncements about what he was going to "do to" his ex-wife, his ex-business partner, etc., in court, but he never followed through with a damn bit of it). Neither one of them lifted a finger when push came to shove.

Now, YOU know your husband much better than we do, but I wouldn't necessarily go hitting the panic button just yet. Remember, even though he should have seen this coming for miles and miles, he has just been hit with the news. I remember that my very calm, reasonable (and sober) ex husband threw things across the room when I told him I wanted a divorce. He never made threats, but he certainly was over-the-top in terms of his emotional reaction--considering what his personality is normally like. He did calm down and process things over the next several months (using his AA friends and a professional therapist).

Now, your husband probably will not run off to AA or to a therapist for help, but he still may calm down as he gets used to the idea. It's very tough to judge what the overall process will be like based upon that first emotional reaction.

My suggestion is that you do your best to just continue to behave reasonably, and maybe behave as if HE WILL behave reasonably. Or much more reasonably than he is right now.

You have good resources to help you. He most likely does not.

I'm sorry, but the thought of his "explaining" the divorce to an 18-month old made me laugh. Even the three-and-a-half-y/o isn't going to understand much of anything right now. Just make sure the kids get lots of love and attention and reassurance. I don't think at this age there is much risk of his alienating them, and you can see how his overall behavior is in the coming months.

I'm not suggesting you might not wind up with a "war" on your hands--I just think it may not be as dramatic as he is making it sound right now. Give it a little time before you worry too much about what will happen.

Hugs, I think you are doing the right thing at this point.

cr995

ArchAngelesk - I was so shocked when I read your post I had to re-read it! Then I laughed - not because it was funny. But because you had just described my life for the past 18 months EXACTLY- the ONLY difference is the age of our kids and that he filed. !!

Apart from that his responses were almost identical word for word to that of my STBXAH!

Your post has helped me SO much because I can really see clearly that this is really the effects of alcohol. And that it does not matter what we say or do they will act in this way towards us, it REALLY REALLY is their problem.

Will be thinking of you. ((Hugs))