Last Night
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
honey, you will drive yourself ******* crazy trying to make sense of it all. bottom line, it's over...even if you knew every single particular, every thought, every branch of the decision tree, it would still be OVER and he is with somebody else. END OF STORY. relationships end all the time....for a lot of reasons. people change. and not everything is meant to last.
NOW You don't have to be caught up in the insanity of active addiction. NOW you are free. you don't have to try and fight his fight anymore. or try to get him to see the light, or quit drinking, or even WANT to quit drinking.
go on and live a good life! patch YOU back up and get busy!
NOW You don't have to be caught up in the insanity of active addiction. NOW you are free. you don't have to try and fight his fight anymore. or try to get him to see the light, or quit drinking, or even WANT to quit drinking.
go on and live a good life! patch YOU back up and get busy!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Exitville
Posts: 214
Boon
Hun, I understand your pain and frustration, I really do. I have been there. The conversations swirling in your head, the questions, the inability to make sense out of anything...because it is complete nonsense. Unfortunately, being in the middle of it for so long it will be a little while before the fog starts to clear.
I almost feel like you are torturing yourself with the thoughts and then I remember it is part of it.
He chose to do what he is doing because he wants to do it. She is with him because she uses and drinks and she wants to do it as well. When I read what you wrote first thing I thought was these two have played this part really well together and have you even more confused. I can totally be wrong but the whole scene you described does not sound like two people being honest with you. But you can't expect honesty so this is nothing new. You can expect confusion and you def got that.
The very best thing you can do for yourself right now is wrap yourself up tight and love yourself. This man is not capable of loving you. Have you started any reading or things here on the forum which describe other peoples stories?
You are totally able to kick this guy to the curb. IMO, that's where he needs to be. Right now you think you have lost your world but you have not--you have just gained your world. He is not in it. You have been given a free pass to true happiness. Use it!! No more roller coaster. No more push pull. No more uncertainty. You have it all right in front of you if you want it!
Hun, I understand your pain and frustration, I really do. I have been there. The conversations swirling in your head, the questions, the inability to make sense out of anything...because it is complete nonsense. Unfortunately, being in the middle of it for so long it will be a little while before the fog starts to clear.
I almost feel like you are torturing yourself with the thoughts and then I remember it is part of it.
He chose to do what he is doing because he wants to do it. She is with him because she uses and drinks and she wants to do it as well. When I read what you wrote first thing I thought was these two have played this part really well together and have you even more confused. I can totally be wrong but the whole scene you described does not sound like two people being honest with you. But you can't expect honesty so this is nothing new. You can expect confusion and you def got that.
The very best thing you can do for yourself right now is wrap yourself up tight and love yourself. This man is not capable of loving you. Have you started any reading or things here on the forum which describe other peoples stories?
You are totally able to kick this guy to the curb. IMO, that's where he needs to be. Right now you think you have lost your world but you have not--you have just gained your world. He is not in it. You have been given a free pass to true happiness. Use it!! No more roller coaster. No more push pull. No more uncertainty. You have it all right in front of you if you want it!
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 505
"So I said if you think he has a disease why are you here drinking with him then! She just looked at me & said I understand, I understand. What the heck does she understand?"
Yeah, I have no idea what she meant by that, other than I think you called her on her BS and she didn't know what else to say. And yes, I think if he's with her, it's not because he suddenly overnight was able to get his life together and quit drinking, it's because she enables him in some way. I thought the same thing at first, that my XA, after 25 years of drinking, snorting cocaine and smoking weed, was able to magically get his crap together and stop just like that, for this woman. And several people here, people with a lot more knowledge and experience about addiction than I ever had, told me that a leopard does not change his spots. It sounds trite, but it's true. People do not make THAT kind of change overnight, and with no help of any kind!!
Do you know what my therapist, who specializes in addiction said to me? He said, "I don't care if you tell me that he goes ahead and MARRIES this woman and is with her for the rest of his life - he is NOT in a relationship with her." I just stared at him with a confused expression on my face and said, "What? Why? I don't understand what you mean. He's with her, isn't he? He dumped ME for HER and is now 'playing Daddy' to her kid, so it's not that he didn't want a committed relationship with ANYBODY - he just didn't want one with ME." And he said, "He will never be in a relationship with her because he is not CAPABLE of being in a relationship with anybody. He doesn't really care about her and doesn't love her. He doesn't even care about or love HIMSELF, which is evident by how he's abusing his mind and body with drugs and alcohol. So how can he love or care about her or even you, for that matter? The ONLY thing he cares about, the ONLY thing he loves, is his cocaine. He is just going to float from one uncommitted relationship to another, indefinitely. That's what works for him, because the only thing he is truly committed to is his drug."
And I know what you mean about reconsidering your stance on weed. Believe me, my entire life, I NEVER would have considered trying cocaine - NEVER EVER!!! Until I got involved with him. By the end, I was so confused and torn from this 'come here, go away' relationship we had going on (the way HE set it up to be from the beginning), that I think I would have done just about ANYTHING if I thought it would have kept him with me. I'm ashamed to say that I think I would have absolutely compromised myself, my values, my morals, for this man. And that is a very sad, very dangerous line of thinking. We should never have to make those sorts of compromises in order for someone to love us.
Yeah, I have no idea what she meant by that, other than I think you called her on her BS and she didn't know what else to say. And yes, I think if he's with her, it's not because he suddenly overnight was able to get his life together and quit drinking, it's because she enables him in some way. I thought the same thing at first, that my XA, after 25 years of drinking, snorting cocaine and smoking weed, was able to magically get his crap together and stop just like that, for this woman. And several people here, people with a lot more knowledge and experience about addiction than I ever had, told me that a leopard does not change his spots. It sounds trite, but it's true. People do not make THAT kind of change overnight, and with no help of any kind!!
Do you know what my therapist, who specializes in addiction said to me? He said, "I don't care if you tell me that he goes ahead and MARRIES this woman and is with her for the rest of his life - he is NOT in a relationship with her." I just stared at him with a confused expression on my face and said, "What? Why? I don't understand what you mean. He's with her, isn't he? He dumped ME for HER and is now 'playing Daddy' to her kid, so it's not that he didn't want a committed relationship with ANYBODY - he just didn't want one with ME." And he said, "He will never be in a relationship with her because he is not CAPABLE of being in a relationship with anybody. He doesn't really care about her and doesn't love her. He doesn't even care about or love HIMSELF, which is evident by how he's abusing his mind and body with drugs and alcohol. So how can he love or care about her or even you, for that matter? The ONLY thing he cares about, the ONLY thing he loves, is his cocaine. He is just going to float from one uncommitted relationship to another, indefinitely. That's what works for him, because the only thing he is truly committed to is his drug."
And I know what you mean about reconsidering your stance on weed. Believe me, my entire life, I NEVER would have considered trying cocaine - NEVER EVER!!! Until I got involved with him. By the end, I was so confused and torn from this 'come here, go away' relationship we had going on (the way HE set it up to be from the beginning), that I think I would have done just about ANYTHING if I thought it would have kept him with me. I'm ashamed to say that I think I would have absolutely compromised myself, my values, my morals, for this man. And that is a very sad, very dangerous line of thinking. We should never have to make those sorts of compromises in order for someone to love us.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 73
The past few days have been incredibly difficult coming to terms with this relationship being over. Just dealing with the fact that he was an A and that he was ending the relationship with me because of that was difficult enough but the fact that it looks like he is moving on with someone else in his life so soon seems almost more difficult for me. I awake with anxiety every day thinking about what they might be doing together...I know I can't possibly really know but my mind wanders to how much happier she might make him than I ever did. I can only be me and nobody else but it's hard to think that after all we went through together these last 7 years that I was not what he wanted. That in the end he had to go on a HUGE drinking bender, lie to me, and say such horrible and nasty things just to get me to leave so he could pursue something with her. My self-esteem is shot, I'm very anxious and depressed, day to day life just seems overwhelming and all I want to do is stay in bed and sleep. I have great fear that I will be alone the rest of my life and that I will not ever meet anyone or find a way to be happy and that all I will do is focus on what could have been, what their lives are like, etc, etc. I'm working with a really good therapist and trying to move forward but the amount of pain and hurt I feel over this feels debilitating. I know I could no longer trust him even if he were to want me back but jesus I'm not finding the strength right now to move forward...so much uncertainty, pain, and rejection. Anway...going to try and get to work today, didn't go yesterday...ugh!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Yes, Boon, you are grieving---and it is incredibly painful at first. Baby steps. You are going to work today---congratulate yourself for that. Congratulate yourself for every step--not matter how small.
It will get easier--I promise. Are you reading or studying anything to help you? Have you looked around for any alanon meetings in your area---those people will understand without judgement.
one day at a time.
dandylion
It will get easier--I promise. Are you reading or studying anything to help you? Have you looked around for any alanon meetings in your area---those people will understand without judgement.
one day at a time.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 133
Boon, I feel exactly the same as you. I thought I had made the decision to end my relationship because of his drinking but I realise now that he was just doing it so that it was ended because that's what he wanted. The pain in dealing with the fact that he doesn't love me or really miss me in anyway is crippling. I hadn't even realised that he didn't love me, thought he just lashed out when drinking but as he said last night on the phone it's got to be how I feel, the drink just brings it out. I know that he is happier without me in his life and it was meant to be the other way round! He doesn't even appear to be sorry for what he has put me through, it's almost like I never existed to him, that's how I feel. I am on antidepressants and he is coming off his so that clearly proves where he was in the relationship. I'm so angry that he couldn't just sit down and air his grievances in a civil way, instead we have spent the last few months having one drink fuelled outburst after another resulting in me hitting rock bottom. I feel you pain I really do x
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
If a person interferes too much with the alcoholic's ability to drink, unfettered, the alcoholic will sacrifice the relationship. And, very often will enter into a new relationship which supports his need to drink. The first love is alcohol---not even himself. The compulsion to drink feels like a life and death struggle for the alcoholic.
For those interested in understanding the nature of the active alcoholic mind and how it affects their behavior in relationships---the articles written by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D. are elcellent. The were soo eye-opening for me. They can be found by google search.
For those interested in understanding the nature of the active alcoholic mind and how it affects their behavior in relationships---the articles written by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D. are elcellent. The were soo eye-opening for me. They can be found by google search.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 73
Thanks for referring me to the articles above. I've read them and found them to be very helpul. I've referred a few others to them as well. I don't know what is wrong with me but even after reading these, remembering what it was like with him on any given day or occasion when he drank, I'm still really hurt and feel so rejected (to the point of dispair some days) about the fact that he is involved with someone else. I just feel like all of the meetings I go to, therapy I have, and time that passes that I will always be left with this sinking feeling that she is sharing a life with him and I'm not. The article on relationships is dead on in describing how I was treated by him...so why do I care that I'm no longer being treated this way and that he has someone in his life now? Not sure how to get past this...time does not seem to be helping and my family and friends are starting to get very irritated with me about why this is not a good thing for me to be out of. I'm sorry...I just don't know how to move past this and not obsess about the two of them together. Thanks for reading...
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Boon
I'm sorry you are going through this like I am sorry we all are. It takes time and each day is different. I did want to ask you if you feel like seeing an MD would be of any benefit to you? I throw this question out there because I don't know how you are feeling physically or mentally as I am not you. I am not a medical advice giver at all and would not attempt it at all. Just a thought that came to mind when you described obsessing and feeling super down about things. On the flip side, getting out and about and exercising like a mad woman or keeping super-duper busy as much as possible might also help. I'm getting ready to do the same things I just described because it lifts my mood and keeps me oriented and semi on track with the healing process.
Don't get "stuck" if you can help it. He isn't worth it!
I'm sorry you are going through this like I am sorry we all are. It takes time and each day is different. I did want to ask you if you feel like seeing an MD would be of any benefit to you? I throw this question out there because I don't know how you are feeling physically or mentally as I am not you. I am not a medical advice giver at all and would not attempt it at all. Just a thought that came to mind when you described obsessing and feeling super down about things. On the flip side, getting out and about and exercising like a mad woman or keeping super-duper busy as much as possible might also help. I'm getting ready to do the same things I just described because it lifts my mood and keeps me oriented and semi on track with the healing process.
Don't get "stuck" if you can help it. He isn't worth it!
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 73
Thanks...great suggestions. Trying to do this without meds as I've taken anti-depressants before and it was horrible getting off of them. Trying to get motivated to do the exericise. It's thoughts about my future, fear of the unknown (will I meet someone else and be happy?) and just dreadful thoughts about the two of them together...yuck. How did this 3rd person become so relevent in my life???
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 133
Boon, I know exactly how you feel. I'm in the same boat as you and although my friends have been brilliant I know they won't be able to offer the level of support that they have been doing for much longer. I am really struggling to do anything and this has hit me harder than the end of my marriage to my daughters father. I can only assume that I was very low during the relationship due to the up and down nature of it and now to feel like its me that has been dumped by him only makes me feel worse. I have started antidepressants and have a referral for counselling next week but it doesn't stop me looking to the future and just seeing a lonely life ahead of me. Not what you want to hear I know but just wanted you to know that what you are feeling is exactly how I feel x
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Posts: 214
Boon
Yes. Get motivated or you are losing hours, days, weeks to someone who is not. You mentioned thinking of the future, thinking of all kinds of things from the 3rd person to whatever...STOP thinking of them and concentrate on you. None of us can tell our future but dwelling on the past, staying immobile, fretting and/or only thinking of "downer" things will only keep you feeling down. How is sitting or staying stuck on the past allowing you to meet new people possibly or have the future you want? What kind of future would you like to have? Turn your thoughts away from what you feel you have lost and think about how to get what you want!
These guys got how much of our lives already?? Why give them anymore?? They don't care! Someone out there does--who knows when or where or how. It's up to us now. If we were strong enough to deal with them when we were with them then surely being happy is within reach and why even give them the satisfaction of delaying being happy but this time FOR REAL happy??
Be glad you are not with him. It's nothing but a pain in the a$$ in the long haul.
Yes. Get motivated or you are losing hours, days, weeks to someone who is not. You mentioned thinking of the future, thinking of all kinds of things from the 3rd person to whatever...STOP thinking of them and concentrate on you. None of us can tell our future but dwelling on the past, staying immobile, fretting and/or only thinking of "downer" things will only keep you feeling down. How is sitting or staying stuck on the past allowing you to meet new people possibly or have the future you want? What kind of future would you like to have? Turn your thoughts away from what you feel you have lost and think about how to get what you want!
These guys got how much of our lives already?? Why give them anymore?? They don't care! Someone out there does--who knows when or where or how. It's up to us now. If we were strong enough to deal with them when we were with them then surely being happy is within reach and why even give them the satisfaction of delaying being happy but this time FOR REAL happy??
Be glad you are not with him. It's nothing but a pain in the a$$ in the long haul.
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 73
Thanks, i know I sound like a broken record. I worry that this is going to be my life as it feels it has been for so long, even before I met him. Unable to find a relationship with someone who wanted committment. I've a lot of success in my professional life but in the area of relationships not so much. I either stay single for a long time or meet people who are in some way or another are not willing or able to be as emotionally availalbe to me as I am to them. I hear like attracts like so maybe I'm not seeing myself as clearly as I thought. I'm tired of feeling alone, desperate, and scared of being alone and desperate all of my life. My Ex use to tell me that when we met he could tell I was desperate and lonely...that we both were (one of the many not so wonderful things he said to me) and that always made me feel bad. He uses alcohol to cope with his anxiety and mine keeps me stuck...always has and I've never been able to move past it. I'm talking and telling people more about it now including writing on this blog hoping that this time it will get better and make a difference and I can finally move forward. Guessing I need regular Al Anon meetings but they get me so frustrated because it feels like I go there, share a little, listen to others share, listen to the readings and then the meeting is over and I'm left full of emotion to deal with either by myself, friends, family or in therapy. This is all fine but what am I missing about Al Anon? I tried it before and left because I felt the same way. Also, this issue with being codependent, is that me and how do I change it? I have some of the traits but not all. However, guessing that the fact that I stayed with this guy for so long and still at this point am thinking so much about his life should be a really big clue. Will this really get any better?
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear Boon, as I have said before, you are grieving. A painful but unavoidable stage.
Time and distance will help. Staying busy will help. Taking baby steps will help.
It won't stay like this forever. Millions of us can testify to this.
dandylion
Time and distance will help. Staying busy will help. Taking baby steps will help.
It won't stay like this forever. Millions of us can testify to this.
dandylion
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Oh, Boon, I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. Do give yourself time to grieve the relationship and what you had hoped it would be. I know that letting go of "how it could be" was the hardest part for me, because when it was good, when AXH was loving and caring and sweet, it was so good. It _could have_ been that way all the time. But. It. Wasn't.
I went through the same feelings of being replaced by AXH's GF, of believing he would stop drinking for her and she would get the 'great guy I knew AXH _could_ be.'
Just like he was sweet and caring towards me when we first started dating, he was sweet and caring for her - at first. But, alcoholism is progressive; AXH's GF got a lot less time with the sweet and caring, misunderstood guy than I did before he picked up the nasty drunk personna. And the thing is, with her, he had a hook that he didn't have with me: I didn't find myself trying to prove that I wasn't an uncaring b-tch like the ex is; she did. And she tried so hard to prove that she was supportive where I wasn't, to prove that she'd help him through anything where I obviously didn't, that for a while she also put up with him being physically assaultive.
To him, I was replaceable because he just needed some one that "loved" him enough to put up with his drinking and behavior. Any one would do as long as they kept a roof over his head, a couch under his back-side and a cable remote in his hand along with the drink. When I stopped doing that, by his reasoning, I no longer loved him, so he had his excuse to find the next girl who would.
It wasn't that he found some one new to help him stop drinking, it's that he's looking for the next some one who "loves" him enough to keep putting up with his sh-t.
As far as finding some one new.... I'm trying to tell myself that I'm not going to even think about that (anymore) until I'm extremely comfortable being on my own. I want to be with some one because I want to be, not because I need to be.
I went through the same feelings of being replaced by AXH's GF, of believing he would stop drinking for her and she would get the 'great guy I knew AXH _could_ be.'
Just like he was sweet and caring towards me when we first started dating, he was sweet and caring for her - at first. But, alcoholism is progressive; AXH's GF got a lot less time with the sweet and caring, misunderstood guy than I did before he picked up the nasty drunk personna. And the thing is, with her, he had a hook that he didn't have with me: I didn't find myself trying to prove that I wasn't an uncaring b-tch like the ex is; she did. And she tried so hard to prove that she was supportive where I wasn't, to prove that she'd help him through anything where I obviously didn't, that for a while she also put up with him being physically assaultive.
To him, I was replaceable because he just needed some one that "loved" him enough to put up with his drinking and behavior. Any one would do as long as they kept a roof over his head, a couch under his back-side and a cable remote in his hand along with the drink. When I stopped doing that, by his reasoning, I no longer loved him, so he had his excuse to find the next girl who would.
It wasn't that he found some one new to help him stop drinking, it's that he's looking for the next some one who "loves" him enough to keep putting up with his sh-t.
As far as finding some one new.... I'm trying to tell myself that I'm not going to even think about that (anymore) until I'm extremely comfortable being on my own. I want to be with some one because I want to be, not because I need to be.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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theuncertainty
that's a great post! thanks from me, too. yeah, the next gal or gals don't "get" anything greater or better which is good to remember all the time. hard to do that in the midst of the heartache but true! anyway, thanks again. that was a good booster.
that's a great post! thanks from me, too. yeah, the next gal or gals don't "get" anything greater or better which is good to remember all the time. hard to do that in the midst of the heartache but true! anyway, thanks again. that was a good booster.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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yeah the grieving part is tricky because it involves so much but alot of it is all twisted up from reality because we weren't thinking correctly in the first place. if that makes any sense.
the A is the A is the A. switch out people, places, times and anything else you want but the A is the A in the end. same cycle different people is all. manipulation doesn't just stop, IMO, along with all the other horrid things. if anything, it becomes more skilled and trained and destructive. honestly, thanks again for posting. whew, i'll hang on to it for sure.
the A is the A is the A. switch out people, places, times and anything else you want but the A is the A in the end. same cycle different people is all. manipulation doesn't just stop, IMO, along with all the other horrid things. if anything, it becomes more skilled and trained and destructive. honestly, thanks again for posting. whew, i'll hang on to it for sure.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
I'm so sorry you've had this painful experience. It's what happens when we can't accept the relationship is over and keep trying to resurrect it. In the end we're never going to understand and we must take care of ourselves. You have good instincts -- Alanon and prayer helps too. Does this sound like addiction, you obsessing over him when he treated you poorly? That's what Alanon is about, so you don't choose the same person again. I had so much pain that I learned to avoid alcoholics, even those in recovery (and I'm sober 21.5 years).
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 73
Hi, I woke up this morning missing him again but dare I say with a little less anxiety than yesterday. I hope that continues to be the case but it will likely come and go for a while I'm guessing. I'm trying to remember all of the negatives about being with him when I start missing him...things he said, did, and the fact that I was with him for so long and in the end he could not committ and treated me as if I was largely to blame for everything. I'm coming to understand my part in this, hard to accept that maybe I would not be here in the first place had I chosen differently but I can see how that played itself out. I truly believed I loved this guy and he loved me and together we could get through this life because we had both been through so much and had found each other. I spoke with our couples counselor the other day that we saw about 1 1/2 years ago and he confirmed that my ex's drinking was a problem then and that he was not willing/able to stop at that time either. That my ex was just saying the same things, that he could control it, wasn't an issue, that he was bored, unhappy with life, etc. I remember then my ex saying I wasn't the problem but now somehow I am? Trying not to focus on the "3rd" that entered the picture lately, I'm being told by everyone here and everywhere else that "like attracts like" and since I was no longer accepting of him and wanted him to stop drinking and would argue with him about that all the time that he found someone with a softer touch...like I had when we first met. Of course then I had not lived with it for 7 years...my touch eventually sofented after that. I feel like if I could just get angry and stay there for a while I would be dealing with this a lot better. The sadness and missing him are what make me feel sick to my stomach. When does the anger begin? When will I feel some peace and relief? I don't want these images of the two of them together all day at work or wherever else to keep replaying in my head. I know that without treatment and a lot of personal work he will never get better and whoever is with him will still have to deal with the drinking and underlying bull****. Will I ever be glad that is not me? Getting use to being with me is not so much fun but I'm being told to focus on that and not that I need him or anyone else in my life right now. That this is my healing...that I'm to tell myself I'm enough even if I don't believe it...I'm going to go out today with a friend and spend time with family even though part of me just wants to sit and obsess about this...maybe that will help...guess that is where my work is and I will find out. 
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