seeking advice---I have mediation for custody next week
 

Hello again everyone,

I just want to express my immense gratitude for the wonderful advice so many members offered in my first post. Although I don't feel strong all of the time, I feel empowered after reading other posts/threads. So much wisdom and support! Thank you! <3

So, I just had a conversation (ok, it was more like an argument since we just seemed to go in circles) with my son's dad regarding our mediation for custody next week.

I've hired a lawyer and we are asking for full legal and physical custody, with supervised visitation only for my alcoholic ex. In addition, I'm asking that he should he only get visitation time with proof that he has not consumed alcohol before or during the visit. I'm also asking him to submit to random alcohol testing, enroll in AA or other treatment programs, counseling, and parenting classes. Whew!

Here are a few things I wrote in my declaration, which was served to him:

-Even though my ex knew my due date, he went out to drink with his friends the night before. I ended up going into labor early the next morning, and when he came to pick me up, he was hungover and smelled very strongly of alcohol.

-From my son's birth until 1 1/2 years of age, my ex and I were "together" (well, that's what I thought, but I later found out that he was cheating on me the entire time---with the woman he is now married to). My ex and I never lived together because we each lived with our respective parents. As a result, I was at home with the baby 95% of the time while he would go to work full time. He would only see the baby for an hour or two after work. He spent the majority of his time at the bar/partying, especially on weekends. Oh, and he also never paid me child support during this time. Not one dime.

-Once, when my son was 15 months old, a family member babysat our child. I was at a school-related even 2 hours away, and my ex was at a baseball game. I got a call that my child was being taken to the ER because he suddenly developed a high fever. I immediately left, and called my ex to go to the hospital ASAP. He insisted he could not find any transportation (we actually have a great public transit system in this area, so I knew that was a lie.) He never showed up at the hospital. My son was in pain and fear and crying so much. I was so distressed about my child, on top of wondering why my ex did not bother going to the hospital. My ex did not see us until after we were discharged and we were already home. He simply strolled in the next afternoon as if nothing happened. I called him on this behavior and said I wanted to file for custody, he said, "Get over it, it's in the past. Besides, you can't prove in court that I wasn't there."

-On our son's second birthday, I made plans with my ex to take my son to the zoo. He was supposed to come pick us up in the morning, but he did not come until the afternoon. He was hungover and smelled like alcohol. It was late, so we went to the park. He bought beer on the way and drank it in the park instead of playing with our son.

-Last month, we took our son to an amusement park. By the early afternoon, he bought seven beers and commented that he was "buzzing" and "feeling happy." At one point, he sat on a bench and I took my son on a ride. When we came back, he was asleep. I woke him up and asked why he drank so much when this was supposed to be about our son having fun. He insisted that he did not drink that much and that it does not matter.

-A few days after that, he came into my apartment around 4AM (he has a key to my place; long story), slurring and stumbling, which means he was drunk driving in that terrible condition. He crawled into the bed and passed out. The next morning, he was hungover and smelled terrible. I told him he cannot come into my apartment without my permission, he cannot be drunk around or hungover around our child. He said, "I'm a drunk, that's who I am. I'm not going to change. Our child needs to get used to seeing me like this." I asked why he didn't seek help. He said, "I tried that before and it didn't work (he attended AA after his DUI). What else are counselors going to tell me that I don't know already?

-I filed for custody the week after that.

He told me this morning that he is "representing himself" (umm---ok---this man doesn't even have a high school diploma). He said that I cannot prove anything I wrote in the declaration. I asked him if he is suggesting that my declaration is false and that I'm lying? He said "No comment." He also insisted that he is NOT an alcoholic. He said, "Alcoholics drink every day, and I don't. Plus, you drink too!" Yes, I do drink, but only rarely! I reminded him that he admitted he is an alcoholic last month when he drove to my apartment drunk. He said, "No. You can't prove that happened. My only DUI was seven years ago, but I don't have anything else recent on my record."

He said that the mediator will "throw my declaration away" because I can't prove anything that I wrote in there. He insists he wants 50/50 and that I'm "trying to take his child away from him." He says I am jealous and angry that he got married, and that is the only reason why I filed for custody. In the past few months (before the amusement park/apartment incidents), my ex did take our son overnight with him maybe once or twice a month. More recently, he had him Sunday-Wednesday because our childcare arrangements changed, but that was only for perhaps four weeks total. In terms of the amusement park incident, he has pictures from that day which "proves he wasn't drunk in the afternoon at the amusement park." He e-mailed me some of these pictures, and the pictures are taken from far away and no, he does not appear drunk, but I remember that his breath smelled terrible. Wouldn't this prove his high tolerance for alcohol as well? He also turned it around on me and said that if I was so concerned about his drinking that day, why didn't I call a cab to go home? We left the park at 10PM that night, and by that point he was pretty sober again. But I know that doesn't look good on me, right? UGH! It's so unfair!

It seems like he is QUACKING big time, because he is telling me what the mediator and judge will do. I feel terrible that I did make some poor choices as well, but I'm not the one who is an alcoholic!

Any wisdom on how to deal with his manipulation during mediation?

Hello there -- I am so sorry you are dealing with all of this.

Your lawyer will be in mediation with you, yes? I say stop being available for all of this quacking and let the lawyer deal with him!!

BEST of luck to you!! Strength and hugs!

I say turn this over to your lawyer. This is what they are hired to do. Don't engage with him on this....period.

It's advice I have followed and it has served me well.

Good luck.
MamaKit

Thanks, Sparklekitty and MamaKit! In CA, we are not allowed to have lawyers present during mediation. I'm worried about mediation because my ex is so manipulative and he knows exactly which buttons to push with me. I'm hoping the mediator sees through him.

Oh for the love. Really? How...frustrating.

I would try to go in there as prepared as your lawyer can get you. Be honest, be clear, stick to the facts.

But if you don't have to talk to him outside the mediation, don't. It'll just spin you around. Best of luck Butterfly. Pretend we're all in there behind you!

Really? Wow! No attorney's allowed.
So, I don't know the parameters or what CA divorce law provides...but I throw something out there...
My guess is that mediation's purpose is for the two of you to hopefully come to an agreement on custody. I can't imagine that at this stage in the process, where you are not permitted representation, is when you HAVE to PROVE anything. It would seem to me that all you have to do is say what is acceptable to you and what is not. If a proposal is not acceptable to you, NO is an appropriate answer.

Again, I don't know the CA process - but if it allows for this..... Don't get into a back and forth with him on your declaration. Your input should either be simple yes or no responses to his proposals or offering your own in a clear and concise manner.

Hopefully, there's a way that you can establish some hard and fast rules or boundaries for yourself going into this. Such as ..know what your objectives are and don't say anything that you don't have to.

Can your attorney give you advice before going in or at least tell you what to expect and what you do or do not have to do?

MamaKit

First, talk to your lawyer.

If you won't be happy and feel safe with anything less than full primary custody with supervised visitation and SoberLink (look it up!) then that's what you hold out for. Even if he pushes your buttons.

When I mediated with my ex, I didn't understand that I didn't have to cave on everything, so I caved on everything. We got a CRAZY custody schedule out of it, and it's been nightmarish. I didn't get a lawyer to advise me beforehand, and I should have.

Getting divorced in CA also. Mediation sucked. It was hard to be in a small room with my crazy ex. I was crying by the end and felt I was being bullied into agreeing to things. Guess what? You don't have to sign anything. I knew that this is a process the courts require you to go to but really it doesn't have to mean anything. I just said that I wanted to discuss a few items with my attorney before I would sign and left. If he is too argumentative just let the mediator know that you tried and are done and leave.

It counts as going and that is all the courts want to see. Even if you sign it, my attorney said that when the judge asks about it, you can say you don't agree to it.

So if it goes your way great, if not, don't worry, nothing is set in stone until the judge makes it so.......

4MyBoys

Wonderful! Thank you, everyone, for your help! I already called my lawyer, but he isn't available until this afternoon. I will definitely ask him how to be best prepared.

Sticking to the facts is key. Except I *know* my ex will try to twist anything and everything around on me. It is going to be so emotionally exhausting.

The only agreement I feel comfortable with is supervised visitation for him with Soberlink. He does not agree because he wants 50/50 custody AND he now insists that he is not an alcoholic. But since he doesn't even have a lawyer, won't that make my case easier?

Thanks for sharing your story! I have a feeling I will also be emotionally exhausted by the end of it, but it is so good to know I can just leave early! ESPECIALLY because I already know we won't agree to anything. Thank you so much!

The below is not intended as legal advice. I am a lawyer, but not in CA and do not practice family law. But I know how alternatives dispute resolution - like these mediations tend to work and a bit about how to coach someone in your shoes.

First, everyone is right - ask your lawyer to prep you and stick to the plan. Paying for a few extra hours of expert time is worth it. Ask the lawyer what he or she expects and ask for information about the mediator. Presumably, you can get the mediators name in advance and research their profile online. Anything to make you more comfortable (perhaps even show up early to get comfortable in the space. Don't be rushed - you need your calm).

Second, as the previous poster noted, you do not have to agree to anything. Personally, in your situation, I would come up with a mantra to repeat. "I cannot agree to that. I have no evidence that our son is safe with his father right now." Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. I imagine the mediator might ask you what you are comfortable with and you can say, "I worked through this carefully with my lawyer and my position is reflected here in my statement." Or, "I'd be willing to negotiate once ____ has demonstrated that he can be safe and sober with our son." (I think you have referenced this in a previous post - but the law favors the parent who demonstrates willingness to keep a relationship with the other parent. So be careful to use inclusive pronouns and to stress that you are open to reconsidering the idea if and only if your ex demonstrates a substantial period of sobriety and stable decision-making).

Third, look at the mediator. Don't look across the table. Keep your eyes on the mediator and repeat your phrases. This can have a powerful effect. If you need to pause to collect yourself, do so. Take a drink and a deep breath. Reestablish eye contact and repeat your message. Look at the mediator when your ex is talking and take deep, deep breathes. Do not be tempted to respond, do not think you need to say anything other than your mantra. Your ex is going to make your case for you because he will ramble on, try to bait you and get angry. You will stay calm and on point - which is very, very credible.

Lastly - it is the mediators job to push you a bit towards compromise. He or she will stop pushing when it is clear you cannot be budged.

You are going to battle. Prepare carefully and shroud yourself in righteous calm. You will do an amazing job - you are a mother and you are going to do right by your child.

Regards.

Thank you so much for breaking everything down and giving me such clear and concise advice. I agree, I think asking for information about the mediator will help calm my nerves. I also love the “mantra” idea, especially because my ex is capable of twisting reality so easily, which throws me off emotionally. This morning, I took the bait and argued back, but there is no point “arguing with crazy,” as someone else commented on my last thread. I definitely cannot do that or lose my cool in mediation.

Thanks for reminding me about emphasizing shared pronouns and being open to negotiating with my ex in the future. I love your tip about looking at the mediator in the eye and remaining cool, calm, and collected while I speak the truth…it does seem like it will send a very powerful statement.
I know the legal system and family law isn’t always fair, but I know I am trying to do the best thing for my child.

I’m so appreciative of all the support and advice here. Love and light to all!

I am right on your page. I get so confused when my husband talks. And I spent years arguing with crazy. I found that not getting sucked in was a skill set - I have to nuture this skill every day. And forgive myself and move on when I slip up. The neat thing about this mediation, is that someone else will be there to witness the crazy - and see it for what it is. You don't need to address it.

Yeah for you! I think you are going to kick ass.

What is your attorney saying about mediation?

My guess is that your ex doesn't care about the child but only about the child support he will have to pay if you get full custody.

I would personally not go into a mediation situation with an addict for exactly the reason you say - he's manipulative and you are vulnerable to his manipulation attempts. It may be worth paying a lawyer and going to trial... But that's just my two cents.

Haha, maybe my mantra should be "I'm gonna kick ass!" ;) I need to remain strong and stay focused on the facts during mediation. His craziness/manipulations/lies will speak for themselves.

I really wish I didn't have to attend mediation, but CA requires custody mediation and no lawyers are allowed. We already have a hearing scheduled next month, so the judge will decide temp custody orders while we go to trail. My lawyer insists that my declaration will be enough to be granted temp full custody, but of course it's at the discretion of the judge.

You've gotten fabulous advice. If you can, just keep a clear picture of your child in your head and that you are doing this for his welfare and stay as strong as you have been. Think of all of us sitting there right with you and sending you support.

California REQUIRES mediation with no lawyers allowed? Wow. It's not only taxes and traffic that are bad....

You will go in there and kick ass. Remember you have the moral right on your side!

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say THANK YOU to all the wonderful advice people have shared. I'm also learning so much from reading the other threads as well. SR, you rock! :)

I had my mediation early this morning. I was quite nervous, but I had my little Virgen de Guadalupe photo with me in my purse, which seemed to help a lot! Once the mediator came to bring my alcoholic ex bf and I back into the mediation room, I felt more confident. The mediator asked my ex questions first, and my ex quickly went into a tailspin of lies (e.g. "I'm not an alcoholic; I only drink here and there," "We have always shared 50/50 custody, she's just filing for full custody now because she found out I got married," etc---all boldfaced lies!).

I kept my cool. The mediator then asked me questions, and I answered confidentially and clearly. I spoke the truth, so the answers came from my heart. I spoke on behalf of my son and what is best for him at this time. I stressed that I would like our son to have more time with my ex, but only if my ex proves an extended period of sobriety via testing along with some kind of treatment program for alcoholism.

The mediator then told us he would speak with us separately. It was my turn first. Right off the bat, the mediator said, "Okay, what I suggest for you to do is to gather as much proof as possible." I already know the truth about my ex and his manipulative and alcoholic ways, but it was a huge validation for me that a court-appointed official knew my ex was full of it after hearing my ex talk for five minutes. YES! My next hurdle, as the mediator stressed, is to gather as much proof as possible and to convince the judge.

The mediator then spoke with my ex separately for a few minutes. Then I was allowed back in the room. Before I entered, the mediator said to me, "So I assume you already know that you two are operating under two different versions of reality." Oh yes, I know all too well about my ex's dark, twisted world where everything is upside down and backwards.

On the way out, I saw that my ex looked quite dejected because his face was almost to the ground. Hmmm, I wonder if the mediator called him out on his bs during their private meeting??! My ex said he was going to file the response to my child custody petition right then in the courthouse. He said he didn't know he had to do that until the mediator told him that (he is representing himself so he had no clue.) I was hoping he just wouldn't file a response and that it would just go to default, but oh well. I just skipped out of the courthouse on my merry way.

BTW, I saw him outside the courthouse in line and he wasn't wearing his wedding ring. He only put it on once we were inside the waiting area for mediation. It threw me off for a second, because I never saw him wear it before (for some quick context, he got married but simply never told me until I heard about it from someone else). My heart did drop for a second, but then I asked myself, would I really want to be married to an unstable, borderline personality disorder, alcoholic husband who TAKES OFF HIS WEDDING RING when he is around his ex? NOPE! His new wife can enjoy him his craziness all she wants!

I will now be preparing for my hearing next month with my lawyer, but I must say, it feels amazing to know that the mediator saw right through the BS almost immediately.

Yay and THANK YOU SR!!!!!!:You_Rock_

Huzzah, Butterfly!!!!!!

I am proud of you. What an amazing, amazing job in the face of such awfulness.


You will just keep rocking this process. And he will continue to tailspin and sound like a loon.

:You_Rock_

Thanks, Archangelesk! I'm gonna try to keep riding this high and finish up my last paper today for this semester of grad school. Thanks, everyone, for helping me stay strong :)