Son in hospital after attempted suicide
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Originally Posted by wicked 
Thank you lexiecat, for posting this.
To me (as an alcoholic, my opinion only) if you have to LEARN to moderate your drinking, then there is a problem that cannot be overcome with moderation management.
To me (as an alcoholic, my opinion only) if you have to LEARN to moderate your drinking, then there is a problem that cannot be overcome with moderation management.
I have one friend who is a "normie", as in normal drinker.
She told me that after the first drink, she is done.
If she has a second and she starts to feel "woozy" is her word, she HATES it.
It makes her sick, and she does not like feeling out of control.
She told me that after the first drink, she is done.
If she has a second and she starts to feel "woozy" is her word, she HATES it.
It makes her sick, and she does not like feeling out of control.
An alcoholic, like me, drinks one and says, "where is my warm fuzzy feeling?"
Drinks another, ah, now we are getting somewhere, feeling relaxed now.
Drinks another, ah, now we are getting somewhere, feeling relaxed now.
More alcohol means better feelings right? Only to an alcoholic.
Only to someone who cannot and will not stop after one, for whatever reason.
Only to someone who cannot and will not stop after one, for whatever reason.
I sincerely hope he continues to get help for his depression. If they cannot treat him at the program he was in, I can see that, for the very reasons lexiecat stated.
But, you certainly do not have to be an alcoholic to be depressed.
Another psychiatrist maybe? Outside of this program?
Beth
But, you certainly do not have to be an alcoholic to be depressed.
Another psychiatrist maybe? Outside of this program?
Beth
Perhaps he will feel more comfortable letting the new psychologist know what is troubling him.
He has an appointment this Tuesday and yes -- it's someone not associated with the program.
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There are several types of depression. Clinical depression is due to a chemical imbalance in the brain. Life looks gray for no external reason. Situational depression is where someone is depressed because of events or circumstances in their lives. I've never suffered from clinical depression, but I have been depressed about things in my life--usually for good reason. Alcohol is a depressant, as well. Many alcoholics are depressed, but with recovery, the chemical causing the depression is gone, and as life circumstances improve with continued recovery they tend to no longer be depressed. With clinical depression, the depression lingers in spite of recovery. Bill Wilson, co-founder of AA, suffered from clinical depression all his life. Even with recovery and huge success and improvements in his life, he struggled with it. The medications available today were not available then.
So, depending on what is causing your son's depression, he may NEED long-term medical treatment. It isn't a failure on his part to cope--he has no control over the chemicals in his brain (at least, as long as he isn't bathing it in alcohol or other drugs).
So, depending on what is causing your son's depression, he may NEED long-term medical treatment. It isn't a failure on his part to cope--he has no control over the chemicals in his brain (at least, as long as he isn't bathing it in alcohol or other drugs).
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
There are several types of depression. Clinical depression is due to a chemical imbalance in the brain. Life looks gray for no external reason. Situational depression is where someone is depressed because of events or circumstances in their lives. I've never suffered from clinical depression, but I have been depressed about things in my life--usually for good reason. Alcohol is a depressant, as well. Many alcoholics are depressed, but with recovery, the chemical causing the depression is gone, and as life circumstances improve with continued recovery they tend to no longer be depressed. With clinical depression, the depression lingers in spite of recovery. Bill Wilson, co-founder of AA, suffered from clinical depression all his life. Even with recovery and huge success and improvements in his life, he struggled with it. The medications available today were not available then.
So, depending on what is causing your son's depression, he may NEED long-term medical treatment. It isn't a failure on his part to cope--he has no control over the chemicals in his brain (at least, as long as he isn't bathing it in alcohol or other drugs).
So, depending on what is causing your son's depression, he may NEED long-term medical treatment. It isn't a failure on his part to cope--he has no control over the chemicals in his brain (at least, as long as he isn't bathing it in alcohol or other drugs).
I explained to my son how the alcohol is only contributing to his feelings of depression. I don't think his is chemical depression, but it could be. There's no family history of it. It could very well be situational as I mentioned earlier, he lost his best friend to a car accident right before he went to college and two other friends who were homosexual to suicide. He says it has nothing to do with him being a homosexual, but I don't know how you listen to the news and things people say -- as a gay person -- and not be effected some by the negativism and hostilities. It would effect me and actually does some, but I try to deal with any anger it causes in a healthy manner.
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My thoughts are of course based on my own experience and that may be clouding my ability to see this differently but it does concern me that your son is so adamantly convinced that he is not an alcoholic and that drinking is not his problem.
I had an eating disorder for many years when I was younger and anyone who suggested to me that they were concerned got the following responses:
- I am just depressed and lost my appetite
- I know it might LOOK like I am anorexic but real anorexics do x, y and z and I do none of those so my issue is not anorexia-- it's depression...
I have listened to the father of my kids and xAH say that his issue was depression and that alcohol was a way to cope with that but the reality is that that in itself IS alcoholic behavior.
I think it's great your son is wanting to see a psychologist and hopefully will continue to do so even if he is challenged on his belief that he can moderate drinking.
I agree with Beth that if you even have to THINK about how to moderate drinking that seems to indicate there is a high level of likelihood that there's a drinking problem...
I think that wanting to find a way to still be able to drink is common in alcoholics... My x went to IOP several times and shortly after periods of sobriety would be convinced (it's like deja vu reading your sons words) that his issues was depression and that he wanted help with that and could still drink moderately. He wasn't able to. Because he's an alcoholic.
Maybe your son is different and the drinking that led to him almost killing himself was a one time thing and situational. I read back at your first post and it sure sounds as if when your son first was hospitalized he had an awareness there WAS a problem with his drinking. It's common (from what I have read and learned on here) for alcoholics to have some awareness/clarity about their disease in the aftermath of a crisis but once the crisis has passed they minimize the role of alcohol and believe they can drink again.
I hope that things work out the way your son wants them too. I think the staff members sound like they were caring and compassionate and wanted to help but if your son wasn't ready to accept the help it's clear there's nothing they could do....
I had an eating disorder for many years when I was younger and anyone who suggested to me that they were concerned got the following responses:
- I am just depressed and lost my appetite
- I know it might LOOK like I am anorexic but real anorexics do x, y and z and I do none of those so my issue is not anorexia-- it's depression...
I have listened to the father of my kids and xAH say that his issue was depression and that alcohol was a way to cope with that but the reality is that that in itself IS alcoholic behavior.
I think it's great your son is wanting to see a psychologist and hopefully will continue to do so even if he is challenged on his belief that he can moderate drinking.
I agree with Beth that if you even have to THINK about how to moderate drinking that seems to indicate there is a high level of likelihood that there's a drinking problem...
I think that wanting to find a way to still be able to drink is common in alcoholics... My x went to IOP several times and shortly after periods of sobriety would be convinced (it's like deja vu reading your sons words) that his issues was depression and that he wanted help with that and could still drink moderately. He wasn't able to. Because he's an alcoholic.
Maybe your son is different and the drinking that led to him almost killing himself was a one time thing and situational. I read back at your first post and it sure sounds as if when your son first was hospitalized he had an awareness there WAS a problem with his drinking. It's common (from what I have read and learned on here) for alcoholics to have some awareness/clarity about their disease in the aftermath of a crisis but once the crisis has passed they minimize the role of alcohol and believe they can drink again.
I hope that things work out the way your son wants them too. I think the staff members sound like they were caring and compassionate and wanted to help but if your son wasn't ready to accept the help it's clear there's nothing they could do....
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Maybe. Or perhaps not. We all react to our own experiences. Even if one has a problem with drinking, is total abstinence the only response?
I understand what he has been facing better now as far as reactions in rehab and AA are concerned. And I'm not trying to be smarmy, but perhaps this isn't the best place to voice these thoughts? Are they not allowed?
He didn't say drinking is not his problem. He said his using alcohol as a response to his depression is part of the problem.
He wasn't totally discounting alcohol as a part of his problem. He simply said he's not ready yet to state outright he's an alcoholic because he doesn't think he is one. I think he thinks perhaps other things are going on which makes it more likely he will drink. And he's trying to combat that without succumbing to the fact he is powerless over what is going on....
Perhaps being more proactive can help at times?
I understand what he has been facing better now as far as reactions in rehab and AA are concerned. And I'm not trying to be smarmy, but perhaps this isn't the best place to voice these thoughts? Are they not allowed?
He didn't say drinking is not his problem. He said his using alcohol as a response to his depression is part of the problem.
He wasn't totally discounting alcohol as a part of his problem. He simply said he's not ready yet to state outright he's an alcoholic because he doesn't think he is one. I think he thinks perhaps other things are going on which makes it more likely he will drink. And he's trying to combat that without succumbing to the fact he is powerless over what is going on....
Perhaps being more proactive can help at times?
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Scarlett, in response to your question whether total abstinence is the only response, when I was doing the moderation program, for four and a half years, I encountered literally hundreds and hundreds of "problem drinkers" working to achieve successful moderation.
In that time, I encountered literally a handful of people (no more than five, I don't think) who were successful at moderation over the long term. Most of the rest seemed to be doing what I was, which was simply continuing to drink unhealthy quantities of alcohol. Yes, there are a FEW problem drinkers who MAY be able, eventually, to drink occasionally without problems. I think the vast majority--almost all--cannot drink safely. If they continue to drink, the problem tends to get worse over time.
Remember, these were people MOTIVATED to succeed. I desperately wanted to avoid having to give it up for good. But I finally concluded it was the only way. I'm not willing to ever risk what might happen if I were to test the waters again. I have one good sober friend who quit drinking at age 17 (after almost dying of alcohol poisoning). He was sober for several years, and at some point in his 20s decided that he could drink safely again. Many years later, after getting DUIs, getting arrested, oh, and permanently losing the vision in one eye, he has now been sober for almost five years. Not everyone makes it back.
In that time, I encountered literally a handful of people (no more than five, I don't think) who were successful at moderation over the long term. Most of the rest seemed to be doing what I was, which was simply continuing to drink unhealthy quantities of alcohol. Yes, there are a FEW problem drinkers who MAY be able, eventually, to drink occasionally without problems. I think the vast majority--almost all--cannot drink safely. If they continue to drink, the problem tends to get worse over time.
Remember, these were people MOTIVATED to succeed. I desperately wanted to avoid having to give it up for good. But I finally concluded it was the only way. I'm not willing to ever risk what might happen if I were to test the waters again. I have one good sober friend who quit drinking at age 17 (after almost dying of alcohol poisoning). He was sober for several years, and at some point in his 20s decided that he could drink safely again. Many years later, after getting DUIs, getting arrested, oh, and permanently losing the vision in one eye, he has now been sober for almost five years. Not everyone makes it back.
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