End marriage counseling?
 

Long story short (and I do intend to post more details when possible). But we have been in marriage counseling while he is also in therapy for emotional and verbal abuse. He's on his second therapist; the first one bought his **** hook, line, and sinker and the abuse got worse.

The marriage counselor has had some helpful moments, like identifying him, when he asked, as abusive. On the other hand, he rages at me and pours out all his bitterness and nastiness in these sessions under the guise of "sharing his feelings." And he schedules these at 8:30 am on weekdays.

Tomorrow is our last scheduled appt. She does not want us there and has told us to get divorced. But he keeps making appts because he is determined not to "quit" on the counseling this time (the longest he's gone with therapy or marriage counseling before has been six months, he doesn't follow through).

My guilt and worry is that I want to say no, don't make any more appts, but I dread the rage and abuse that will follow, the nasty sneering and self justifying "well, YOU gave up, not ME" crap. So I kind of want to wait him out. And this is like the only place where I feel like I can say this and have you all know that I'm not crazy and that he is just that manipulative!

At the same time, I know that his reaction is not really my problem and not something I can control; and it's not helping, and it's kind of harming me.

And, yes, today, I had a meeting with a therapist for myself. :)

Also, and OT, you guys are an amazing source of support and wisdom and, oddly enough, fun. I am still chuckling over the cheese deployment in CeciliaV's thread.

I had to leave an abusive man once, and it was all I could do to get out alive. He was very unpredictable and volatile. In the end, while I was in therapy no doubt, I had to lie to him which I hate because not only is it wrong, but I'm no good at it... I had to lie to him about us having a future together but only if we went through the divorce first. I had to do that to get him to sign the papers. I was guilt ridden by the whole deal.

My therapist told me to change my thinking about it; she considered it an act of self preservation and told me sometimes it takes what it takes. I've heard that more than once now.

Please keep coming here and read threads and blogs. They have helped me tremendously. and I've found a semi-local Al-Anon group. I hate having to drive over 15 miles in the evening to get there, but... I so need it. I need SR too, and am grateful to have found it.

Hang in there, only you know what you need and I will believe you will come to know what that is and be good with it.

I'll be thinking of you dear. :wavey:

HTBH57

Dear Bluegalangal,

I went through many therapist with my ex. I think 5 of them. 3 of them told us we should divorce. One wanted us to read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus", warning ........... do not ever read that book. I left dents in the wall the time I read it. Other therapist asked me if I wanted to continue to help me with my co-dependency.

If you don't think you can do it, let him go alone. If you do go, can you take your own car, and leave before the appt is over?

I don't remember if you were thinking divorce. I'm sorry. It's just if this is the last appt, I think that he is really going to revvvv this up.

If things aren't going well during the appt if you do go, do you have a place to go to?

(((Hugs))). My STBXAH was verbally abusive, only when drunk - ya know, because if he was drunk then I should give him a "pass" on it. Everything is/was my fault. . .period. You know it is just manipulation, he knows he intimidates you. . .if you don't want to sit through that counseling anymore, then just don't. You actually may be surprised at how finding your voice and regaining a bit of your power could be eye-opening to your husband. In my situation, when I finally stood up for myself it knocked him on his butt. And I felt more confident than I had in years. I'm still in the whole euphoria/invincible stage - I am taking care of myself and my kids and I feel pretty awesome about that! :)

I like what was mentioned above - think of it as self-preservation. Stay strong! You can do it!

I loved that! A reasonable response to an unreasonable situation. LOL

he must not be able to control himself very well. like a tantrum. the problem with a grown man having a tantrum is not just the sneering it is the action he could take.
do you think he could get physical? has he gotten physical before?

you are taking care of yourself, that is excellent. keep yourself first.

with manipulators, I agree with happytobehere. self preservation and keep a low profile.
i know i would not want to hear any more sneering and self justification than necessary.

beth

My question is ----what is your response to the therapist saying that you should get divorced?

Dear BlueGal, I read between the lines that you are afraid of your husband---as in--he can be or, potentially, be violent. If this is true, this must be respected (for your safety), and you will need help from those with experience with domestic abuse.

It I am correct---please tell someone--Us on SR (if you feel safe to), tell your own therapist--or contact your local domestic violence organization for help.

sincerely, dandylion

Wait him out for what?

Personally, if your marriage counselor is telling you to bail out, it's time to take stock in the marriage.

I don't know what you'd be waiting *for*, exactly.

Also, based on my experience, counseling does not help abusers become less abusive from within the relationship. Once abuse has become part of the landscape, it's there. You can't unring the bell.

Cautious relief and, yeah, hope (I know hope is not a long term plan!) - like, will he listen? Can we have a regular divorce without him going ballistic/ nuclear? Hoping that if he hears it from her, that he will take it (more) calmly and get used to the idea.

Yes - he has gotten physical before. Yes - I have a plan in place.

Meanwhile I'm trying to maintain a semblance of sanity and ... reality? You know? Like feeling guilty for having a plan but realizing that, no, I have to take care of us, first, and trying to come to understand that I can't treat him the way I would treat a normal person.

For instance: for a long time I thought that boundaries were like the rules you give kids, where it's not fair to punish the kid without giving him a warning. I always did that with my kids, and so I thought I had to explicate my boundaries to him or I wasn't being "fair." It's a difficult concept for me to grasp, but it's a relief, to realize that boundaries are mine, what *I* will tolerate, what I want, and they have little to do with him (only insofar as the boundaries are there because he is in my life). And I don't have to explain or even tell him, I can just *have* them.

I am still learning how this works, and right now what boundaries really are. You guys have been SO helpful in that regard, so wise. I appreciate it so much, especially the straight talking.

I did tell the therapist today that I will not listen to any more negative outpourings from him about me in these sessions. That was my boundary. I tried to keep it an I message, that I do not need to hear it, and if he needs to do it for his recovery, then I will leave the session. (Like I said: I'm learning about boundaries so I'm pretty sure that's not a great one, but it's a start...) I do not know if he is scheduling more appts. He did not ask me, which he did last time we "ran out" of scheduled appts.

For him to get mad or impatient... He is impulsive and not a long term thinker.

Bluegalangal, it sounds like you're in a really difficult situation. There's a reason that couples counselling is contra-indicated when there is abuse involved - it only gives the abuser more tools with which to abuse and doesn't help the person being abused for the reasons you have posted about.

Have you read any books by Lundy Bancroft? They really helped me to see the forest for the trees and get a plan/response in place for when he followed the same, tired script that these people seem to have downloaded directly into their brain.

I would suggest that now is the time to get practical and leave the soul searching to when you've more time and space after you've extricated yourself. Wait him out (if your psyche can take it) until you've got your ducks in a row. Keep yourself safe, have your important documents elsewhere, keep an overnight bag at a friends house in case you need to run, see a lawyer so you know exactly where you stand. All that good stuff. I'm sure there are lists if you google (using an incognito window, of course!).

And, no, don't expect a "regular" divorce. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

Good luck.

I can only ask Do you need to be right ? or Do you want to be happy?

Sometimes we have to choose our battles.

If you truly want peace, I would let go of the notion of "waiting him out"

I am strictly speaking from my own personal experience here, I kept needing/searching that extra validation, I was waiting for that "A- HA" moment, well that only happens on Oprah, and in the end all I was doing was prolonging my own misery.

If I would have waited him out I would still be in a toxic situation. Sometimes it's a series of events that lead us, it doesn't have to be one defining moment.

Sending you strength.

And you have to be around for that?