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Old 04-11-2013, 07:46 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
The marriage counseling seems to be the place where your husband gets to spew venom at you weekly.
Thank you for this, dandylion. I just realised this yesterday. And there seems to be no end to the venom. Once or twice? Maybe. Every week, new and the same old complaints? No. I told him that that was something for his individual therapy, not for joint counseling. It does not help me, or "us", to hear his bitter same complaints week in and week out. Like he is wallowing in them and determined never to leave his mud pit.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:08 AM
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Dear Blue, this can be a trap that the counselor can fall into--also. In a marriage with addiction issues, the therapist needs to have experience--as a matter of fact, most therapists will not take the clients if there is not sobriety, first. Because, it goes nowhere or makes the matter worse for the spouse.

This situation has been discussed many times here on the forum.

sincerely, dandylion
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluegalangal View Post
Thank you for this, dandylion. I just realised this yesterday. And there seems to be no end to the venom. Once or twice? Maybe. Every week, new and the same old complaints? No. I told him that that was something for his individual therapy, not for joint counseling. It does not help me, or "us", to hear his bitter same complaints week in and week out. Like he is wallowing in them and determined never to leave his mud pit.
It's funny, I just came back to this today and looked at my calendar. AH and I have our marriage counselor today. He's made some minor changes on the surface, maybe I'll see if in counseling if they are real heart changes or just those apparently surface changes? And, yes, with my AH it's the same old complaints and condemnations week after week. And, quite frankly, I'm no better because I get caught in the same defensive patterns over and over.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Because, it goes nowhere or makes the matter worse for the spouse.

This situation has been discussed many times here on the forum.

sincerely, dandylion
I keep reading, and delving deeper. There is so much wisdom here it's really hard to take it all in, but I am looking. It's complicated by the problem that he stalks me so I have no expectation of privacy and can't share much. We went into marriage counseling originally because he wanted someone to tell me everything I was doing "wrong." It did result in him changing individual therapists and going to some meetings, so it's possible that progress is happening. But I really did just realise that the sessions are his vomiting rage catharsis that leave me shaken and him feeling "good" at the outpouring. And that's not helpful to me or to my state of mind.

I have my own therapist now, fingers crossed - first appt is next week.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
It's funny, I just came back to this today and looked at my calendar. AH and I have our marriage counselor today. He's made some minor changes on the surface, maybe I'll see if in counseling if they are real heart changes or just those apparently surface changes? And, yes, with my AH it's the same old complaints and condemnations week after week. And, quite frankly, I'm no better because I get caught in the same defensive patterns over and over.
Yeah, I try so hard to detach and not answer his judgements and criticisms and get pulled into defending myself but then I do. I leave feeling shaken and sometimes almost suicidal. And then I realised just the other day, that, no - if the point of this is to help "us" communicate, revisiting and outpouring more rage is not going to help that. So I told him no. The negative self talk about me is an issue in any case, but it's an issue he needs to own and deal with, on his time with his sponsor and his therapist, not on "my" time or "our" time. Because that's not something *I* can can change, how he views me.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluegalangal View Post
Yeah, I try so hard to detach and not answer his judgements and criticisms and get pulled into defending myself but then I do. I leave feeling shaken and sometimes almost suicidal. And then I realised just the other day, that, no - if the point of this is to help "us" communicate, revisiting and outpouring more rage is not going to help that. So I told him no. The negative self talk about me is an issue in any case, but it's an issue he needs to own and deal with, on his time with his sponsor and his therapist, not on "my" time or "our" time. Because that's not something *I* can can change, how he views me.
Others may try to poison our views of ourselves with their venom, but we all know our own truths.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CeciliaV View Post
Others may try to poison our views of ourselves with their venom, but we all know our own truths.
Yes, yes, and yes!!! You know what? I went to the appointment today and AH forgot about it and so it was just me and the marriage counselor. He expressed his own frustrations about my AH and the circular conversations that AH gets even him into and he wonders how we got there. Finally, I was able to say: It's not JUST ME!!!!

I told him we needed to be done with the counseling together and that I will let AH know. I told AH today that we both just need to keep working on our own recoveries(programs of our own choosing or path to take/whatever) but that the marriage counseling was going nowhere.

Being someone's punching bag in therapy was giving me too much anxiety and stress and it was not a good place for me. I finally feel better today just for taking that tiny step!
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:23 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post

I told him we needed to be done with the counseling together and that I will let AH know. I told AH today that we both just need to keep working on our own recoveries(programs of our own choosing or path to take/whatever) but that the marriage counseling was going nowhere.

Being someone's punching bag in therapy was giving me too much anxiety and stress and it was not a good place for me. I finally feel better today just for taking that tiny step!
Oh HOORAY FOR YOU!

I am hoping I get the courage to step back myself. I know the attitude will be, well, I was willing to try, YOU quit, but I have to get past that. Stop letting his views affect me. I can't change them.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:52 PM
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Good for you! Honestly, those sessions sounded like they were doing more harm than good. You work it for you, and he can work it for himself (or not, his choice).

BIG hugs to you, you done good!
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:07 PM
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Way to go Liz.
From my perspective that step doesn't look so tiny.
Good for you.


Hugs,
MamaKit
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:22 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Thanks ladies, I appreciate the support. Ah wasn't surprised but he seemed sullen and withdraw last night. Of course, that's how he acts most of the time anyway so it could have been from a myriad of other issues at this point.

I am starting to get very tired of the way we are living, honestly. Not sure if I can hold on much longer. I was very upset over something last night, relating to our neighbor's losing their dog to a rattlesnake bite and then coyote. Their dog was bit by a snake, then rushed to the ER and treated and released, at home the dog went through the doggy door, and then was attacked in the backyard by a coyote who most likely smelled the wounded dog and jumped the 6 ft high fencing to get to the dog. We live in the desert but most of the time the coyotes stay out of our yards because of the block wall fencing. I have view fencing on one side of our yard where we have open desert next to us. There is a 8 inch high block wall and then view fencing and I had asked AH to help me take care of putting up chicken wire(or mesh wire) along the view fencing to help keep the snakes out of our yard. We had a rattler last May so I know they can get in. I also need to fix my side yard gate because it's too high and the snakes can get under this.

When I asked AH to address it, he just said, "We only saw the 1 snake last year. That was it." Ummm, to me, 1 snake is 1 too many thank you very much. Our son has friends over, we have landscapers and a pool guy and I'd hate for any of them to get bit, let alone our new puppy now. So, when I told him about the neighbor's dog last night, he was completely unphased and said to my son, "Gee, I guess we better move to Israel." What the he** is that supposed to mean? So, now I'm stuck figuring out how to fix my fencing alone and I'm planning on knocking on some neighbor's doors this weekend. I know I can do the view fencing thing, but fixing the side yard gate is difficult because it may need to be reset against the block wall and I may need professional help with that gate. Anyway, I hate to come on here and vent but I'm exhausted and feel so alone.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:10 AM
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Liz, call a fencing professional and be done with it....then go to the spa and get a facial and a massage. You deserve it.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:17 AM
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I used to get SO MAD at my AH for not helping me with this kind of stuff. A regular, non-addict husband would probably do it, and do it without (too much ) complaining.

Alas, that's not who we married.

Since my AH has been out of the house, I just do it myself, and I don't get bogged down by the loneliness and disappointment because he isn't helping me/he's complaining/he's ridiculing me.

Sometimes it's nice to just DIY. And if you can't, do what tjp613 said.

(((())))
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:19 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tjp613 View Post
Liz, call a fencing professional and be done with it....then go to the spa and get a facial and a massage. You deserve it.
LOL! I was just online looking at a company who specializes in snake prevention for yards. Another neighbor just texted me to tell me they had a rattler in their yard on Saturday, it was a first for them in the 5 years they've lived here. For some reason, people are seeing them more often in the neighborhood this year.

I'm also researching rattlesnake training for the dog. There are companies who train the dog (with an electric collar) to stay away from the snakes. Our other neighbor is taking her 3 dogs on Saturday and I told her to stop by afterwards to tell me how it went. Our dog is only 6 months old and I kind of feel he's a bit young for the shock collar treatment but it may be necessary at this point.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:39 AM
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"Gee, I guess we better move to Israel." What the he** is that supposed to mean?
It means (to me) that he is an asshat. Plain and simple.

Liz, keep moving forward. You have made great progress. Keep your puppy safe.
Keep the pool guy and landscapers safe in your yard.
I admire someone who takes responsibility for themselves and does what they can to minimize risk to others.
Thank you.

Beth
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:47 PM
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I used to get so angry/disappointed at my AH. We were *supposed* to be partners, yet he rarely did anything remotely like a partner would.

I found that doing things for myself both relieved me of the anger and disappointment, and empowered me. Also, I think he took for granted that I would never leave him because I needed him. He was quite surprised, I think, to find out I didn't.

L
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:03 PM
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There's a whole lot of resentments that haven't been worked through. Until the resentments stop and are replaced by wanting to forgive, work together, etc., neither will the obfuscation, minimalization, and sabotage.

If someone minimalizes your concerns, whether it be snakes or anything else, call them out on it. Cal it exactly what it is. Makes a person look at themselves and makes them realize that you know they are trying to diminish the validity of your feelings by dismissing them. And that works both ways for all in partnerships...that we have to remember.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:31 PM
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Well, from my experience with my first husband, I was always glad when he DIDN'T fix something... It got so if he said he was fixing the plumbing first thing Saturday morning, I'd call the plumber and say "gonna need you about 1PM"..... Kept the floods sort of at bay.

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueSkies1 View Post
There's a whole lot of resentments that haven't been worked through. Until the resentments stop and are replaced by wanting to forgive, work together, etc., neither will the obfuscation, minimalization, and sabotage.

If someone minimalizes your concerns, whether it be snakes or anything else, call them out on it. Cal it exactly what it is. Makes a person look at themselves and makes them realize that you know they are trying to diminish the validity of your feelings by dismissing them. And that works both ways for all in partnerships...that we have to remember.
Yes!!! And, you know what I did this AM after posting here? I went to him, told him I was going to Lowes and I expected him to come and help me get the stuff I needed to fix the fencing or else I was calling an expensive snake removal/fencing company to come do it. I told him it was important for all of us that we try the best we can to keep the snakes out of the yard. He said, "I'll help. Just let me get a few things done for work." So, we all went out, bought the stuff we needed, even went to lunch together as a family, and then had civil discussions about how we were going to tackle this project.

He even helped me pick up the decorative edging I was going to put up to keep the dog out of my flower bed areas! Now, was he super friendly and communicative? Not really, but he was helpful enough and it looks like we're going to at least try to get things done around here.

He also agreed to go to a party that a friend of mine is hosting tomorrow night. He could have stayed home with our son but he said he'd come with me. I was really surprised because he hasn't been too interested in hanging out with my friends at all in the past few years.
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