Facing the beast...
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Northern California
Posts: 106
Facing the beast...
The beast being Alcoholism...
It seems to me that while I lived with my XAH, we had problems because of his drinking. Mainly the fact that he would rather sit and drink beer then do anything with the family and the money he spent on the beer even when we were broke. He never went to bars, he wasn't a staggering mean drunk...as a matter of fact I was the only one who could ever tell he was drunk. For anyone else to be able to tell he had to have put away at least over a 12 pk.
and even then he was just more talkative and outgoing...normally he was a couch potatoe. I could tell after one beer if he had been drinking.
After we moved out and he decided to go to the 18 month program and started AA he was great...he realized (being on his own for the first time) that he had left me to handle everything on my own when we were living together. He was supper involved with the kids. left me cards and flowers saying how he didn't want to lose his family...this was the first 6 months into the program. Everything was AA...
Then it seemed that when I wasn't falling for all the usual lines he got frustrated...I started getting the blame for things...then he got angry. Then he started the affair. Since then he has become meaner and angrier then I have ever seen him. In the 20 yrs ive known him I never saw him angry, he never argued with me...I would yell and he would sit and pout..now he just spews venom in EVERY conversation.
It seems to me that finally facing the beast, so to say, by stopping the denial and not just immediantly saying ok everything will be fine now that you have been in rehab for 6 months, stirred up some anger that he had been hiding. I wonder sometimes if it even is with me or am I just a target for him...
I don't feel like I was really dealing with things that you others have dealt with while we were still married...he was so passive. Now that we are not together it seems like now im seeing the beast...
Has anyone else had this happen in their situation? Is this common ? I thought he had hit bottom when we left but it seems to me that he is far from bottom. Or can they go on and never really hit bottom sometimes??
It seems to me that while I lived with my XAH, we had problems because of his drinking. Mainly the fact that he would rather sit and drink beer then do anything with the family and the money he spent on the beer even when we were broke. He never went to bars, he wasn't a staggering mean drunk...as a matter of fact I was the only one who could ever tell he was drunk. For anyone else to be able to tell he had to have put away at least over a 12 pk.
and even then he was just more talkative and outgoing...normally he was a couch potatoe. I could tell after one beer if he had been drinking.
After we moved out and he decided to go to the 18 month program and started AA he was great...he realized (being on his own for the first time) that he had left me to handle everything on my own when we were living together. He was supper involved with the kids. left me cards and flowers saying how he didn't want to lose his family...this was the first 6 months into the program. Everything was AA...
Then it seemed that when I wasn't falling for all the usual lines he got frustrated...I started getting the blame for things...then he got angry. Then he started the affair. Since then he has become meaner and angrier then I have ever seen him. In the 20 yrs ive known him I never saw him angry, he never argued with me...I would yell and he would sit and pout..now he just spews venom in EVERY conversation.
It seems to me that finally facing the beast, so to say, by stopping the denial and not just immediantly saying ok everything will be fine now that you have been in rehab for 6 months, stirred up some anger that he had been hiding. I wonder sometimes if it even is with me or am I just a target for him...
I don't feel like I was really dealing with things that you others have dealt with while we were still married...he was so passive. Now that we are not together it seems like now im seeing the beast...
Has anyone else had this happen in their situation? Is this common ? I thought he had hit bottom when we left but it seems to me that he is far from bottom. Or can they go on and never really hit bottom sometimes??
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 877
My guess: he is a dry drunk and is being exceptionally mean to you because of guilt he has over the affair and the marriage breaking up. I know, it doesn't make any sense to be mean to someone you feel badly about being mean to, but that's A logic for you.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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I really don't know how common it is or not, but....
I read through the threads in the Newcomers and Alcoholism forums here on SR to get some sort of understanding what this struggle is like. Frequently I read that someone during the first year of recovery will go through a very 'angry at the world' phase. It seems as though everything and anything will set them off (really short fuse). Those who seem to get past this phase acknowledge that it is happening and work to get through it. Some, it seems, get stuck there.
I vote convenient target. If he begins to spew again, you really don't have to hang around or stay on the phone and listen to him. A simple "if you continue to talk to me this way then I am ending this conversation" and either leave or hang up. Works wonders with my stepson!
I read through the threads in the Newcomers and Alcoholism forums here on SR to get some sort of understanding what this struggle is like. Frequently I read that someone during the first year of recovery will go through a very 'angry at the world' phase. It seems as though everything and anything will set them off (really short fuse). Those who seem to get past this phase acknowledge that it is happening and work to get through it. Some, it seems, get stuck there.
I wonder sometimes if it even is with me or am I just a target for him...
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northeast
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Since I am just about in that same place, I have to say maybe easy target is part of it. But in my opinion, it is more about their not getting their way by the usual manipulative methods. As we detach, they keep trying by all the ways to get back what they had, family, enabler, etc. that worked before. The more those methods don't work, the more frustrated they become - The more angry they become.
My AH gets a somewhat self righteous point of view I think. I am doing all this and it is not good enough for you! Makes we want to scream in his face (I am in an angry phase at the moment!) "I don't want you to do this for me. You do not need my approval. We are separated! After hurting our son with your thoughtless words and hurting me for years, we have nothing to discuss. Do whatever it is that you need to do. I am not part of this anymore! Nothing you 'say' will change anything. No pretending everything is fine makes anything about 'us' fine! There is no 'us'!"
I am expecting to go down the road you are on right now any minute. All is peaceful right now in my opinion for various reasons that are advantageous to him. When that ends, I am prepared and keep preparing to face the beast.
We just have to keep on taking care of our side of the street--nurture ourselves and our children. Their beastiness is on them.
My AH gets a somewhat self righteous point of view I think. I am doing all this and it is not good enough for you! Makes we want to scream in his face (I am in an angry phase at the moment!) "I don't want you to do this for me. You do not need my approval. We are separated! After hurting our son with your thoughtless words and hurting me for years, we have nothing to discuss. Do whatever it is that you need to do. I am not part of this anymore! Nothing you 'say' will change anything. No pretending everything is fine makes anything about 'us' fine! There is no 'us'!"
I am expecting to go down the road you are on right now any minute. All is peaceful right now in my opinion for various reasons that are advantageous to him. When that ends, I am prepared and keep preparing to face the beast.
We just have to keep on taking care of our side of the street--nurture ourselves and our children. Their beastiness is on them.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
I am agreeing with Keepingmyjoy. My AH has gone the opposite way. He's very passive and depressed and just sits on the couch not engaging with us very much. He used to express his anger, arguing, having to be right all the time, etc. He started on antidepressants 18 months ago and they helped with his angry outbursts but drugs can't help someone's thinking problems.
So, when we go to marriage counseling he lets out his venom. He's just conveniently keeping it in check while at home and that depresses him because he's trying to control himself and that frustrates and depresses him. He's also angry because he's not drinking anymore and he feels like he's giving it up with no reward. One of the things he asked is, "What's in it for me?" Sobriety wasn't a good enough answer.
As she said, my AH has the same take: I did this for you and it's not good enough. I have to remind him that he should be doing it for himself and if he's doing it for me, than long term success will be difficult. Those words came from our marriage counselor who has been trying to encourage AH to look inside himself, to find reasons within to find real recovery, not just to check off the boxes because he's been told to do so.
Keep doing what you're doing for yourself and your kids. FYI: I've read a lot of stuff on abuse and passivity is a form of abuse in some ways, too. Neglecting the family, tuning them out, the silent treatment, etc. These things can also be detrimental. My dad was like this a lot, just drank and sat in front of the TV. He and my mom never fought, they never talked really and their marriage still didn't make it. She told me that my dad was like a sack of potatoes on the couch and she was grateful that he wasn't a mean drunk(that came about after the divorce when his disease progressed and I was in college) but he wouldn't quit drinking and she left him.
So, when we go to marriage counseling he lets out his venom. He's just conveniently keeping it in check while at home and that depresses him because he's trying to control himself and that frustrates and depresses him. He's also angry because he's not drinking anymore and he feels like he's giving it up with no reward. One of the things he asked is, "What's in it for me?" Sobriety wasn't a good enough answer.
As she said, my AH has the same take: I did this for you and it's not good enough. I have to remind him that he should be doing it for himself and if he's doing it for me, than long term success will be difficult. Those words came from our marriage counselor who has been trying to encourage AH to look inside himself, to find reasons within to find real recovery, not just to check off the boxes because he's been told to do so.
Keep doing what you're doing for yourself and your kids. FYI: I've read a lot of stuff on abuse and passivity is a form of abuse in some ways, too. Neglecting the family, tuning them out, the silent treatment, etc. These things can also be detrimental. My dad was like this a lot, just drank and sat in front of the TV. He and my mom never fought, they never talked really and their marriage still didn't make it. She told me that my dad was like a sack of potatoes on the couch and she was grateful that he wasn't a mean drunk(that came about after the divorce when his disease progressed and I was in college) but he wouldn't quit drinking and she left him.
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 433
Everything that got them to where they are now doesn't disappear just because they sober up or decide to stop drinking; forgetting that is like magical thinking and sets us up for more pain and dysfunction.
The thinking patterns, the habits, the coping methods or lack thereof, all of it can rise to the surface because the panacea of drink no longer covers it up. Sobering up is only the beginning. And that's why we need the support of others to learn healthier ways and to have the strength to do the work needed.
Best wishes to you....
The thinking patterns, the habits, the coping methods or lack thereof, all of it can rise to the surface because the panacea of drink no longer covers it up. Sobering up is only the beginning. And that's why we need the support of others to learn healthier ways and to have the strength to do the work needed.
Best wishes to you....
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
it could be that drinking was his solution to keeping his anger in. self medicating. once the alcohol balm was removed, all the mean ugly squigglies came out.
I think you touched on an important point....you thought that by leaving he would hit his bottom.....and I suspect you hoped that if he would just STOP drinking, all would be well. those things SEEM like reasonable assumptions but logic and reason don't work when it comes to addiction. drinking was but a SYMPTOM of far deeper issues.
if it appears you are his target, I suggest you move out the way of the spears and arrows he aims your way. adopt a healthy sense of self preservation!
I think you touched on an important point....you thought that by leaving he would hit his bottom.....and I suspect you hoped that if he would just STOP drinking, all would be well. those things SEEM like reasonable assumptions but logic and reason don't work when it comes to addiction. drinking was but a SYMPTOM of far deeper issues.
if it appears you are his target, I suggest you move out the way of the spears and arrows he aims your way. adopt a healthy sense of self preservation!
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yes, I ABSOLUTLY (stupidly) thought that if he would just stop drinking we could move on and be happy. Ive learned in the last 2 yrs that was never going to happen. Once he was "sober" all the other stuff just stepped up and never got addressed...which frustrated me since I was willing to work on it...he was not.
I never knew him sober, so it is accurate to say that there would be some obvious personality changes with a person who had drank as long and as much as he did. I guess its been a challenge for me to see that I never really knew him..and this is who he is. His coping skills have not improved with sobriety...The fact that he raised kids with me for 20 yrs and once he decided he wants a divorce he cuts them out of his life completely shows that ...a mature reasonable person is able to have relationships despite a divorce. Ive always had the mind set that you are still a family if you have children regardless of divorce...an alcoholic is not able to do that, at least he is not. His way of coping with all that has happened has been walk away, act as if the last 20 yrs never happened,act as if the kids (minus our son) never existed. He actually goes to the extreme with asking me question that he obviously knows to act as if we never had a relationship or connection. sometimes a conversation with him is like talking to a person with dementia...it is truly weird.
Ive gotten out of his way, when we do speak now days (which is very rare) it is very short and if he starts with his crap I walk. 2 days ago he texted to let me know he was dropping a check off that was late. I told him the next day was fine...he had complained he was really busy. he responded with "good god learn some patience im getting it to you as soon as I can"...I just sent him a smiley face and said " don't worry, like I said tomorrow is fine have a great night" If he wants to be angry that's his problem not mine but I just wonder WHY he is so angry sometimes...
I never knew him sober, so it is accurate to say that there would be some obvious personality changes with a person who had drank as long and as much as he did. I guess its been a challenge for me to see that I never really knew him..and this is who he is. His coping skills have not improved with sobriety...The fact that he raised kids with me for 20 yrs and once he decided he wants a divorce he cuts them out of his life completely shows that ...a mature reasonable person is able to have relationships despite a divorce. Ive always had the mind set that you are still a family if you have children regardless of divorce...an alcoholic is not able to do that, at least he is not. His way of coping with all that has happened has been walk away, act as if the last 20 yrs never happened,act as if the kids (minus our son) never existed. He actually goes to the extreme with asking me question that he obviously knows to act as if we never had a relationship or connection. sometimes a conversation with him is like talking to a person with dementia...it is truly weird.
Ive gotten out of his way, when we do speak now days (which is very rare) it is very short and if he starts with his crap I walk. 2 days ago he texted to let me know he was dropping a check off that was late. I told him the next day was fine...he had complained he was really busy. he responded with "good god learn some patience im getting it to you as soon as I can"...I just sent him a smiley face and said " don't worry, like I said tomorrow is fine have a great night" If he wants to be angry that's his problem not mine but I just wonder WHY he is so angry sometimes...
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: OHIO
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I could have written this entire thread.....my xah was exactly the same as yours...all the way down to an affair and leaving me and the kids in the dust and telling his affair partner's family that he has never been married and had no kids....wow..after all this time
a thread comes along that just hits home....my divorce was in 2006. It does get better but I think it's only because the kids and I have not spoken to him since 2005 when he left us for her. Hang in there hunny...
Janitw
a thread comes along that just hits home....my divorce was in 2006. It does get better but I think it's only because the kids and I have not spoken to him since 2005 when he left us for her. Hang in there hunny...
Janitw
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Janitw..I read some of your post, and I guess I should be grateful because you ex sounds like a bigger Pr**k then mine. Huge hugs for maken it through that...
One of my sons therapist once told me that an jerk non supportive father is better then no father at all...at first I thought maybe hes right, after all hes a professional ...then I thought ummm....no and then I thought well, I feel the same way about a jerk non supportive therapist being better then no therapist at all....NOT!...we changed therapist. Not that I wanted to be right but because he obviously did not understand the emotional abuse he was putting my son through.
thanks for the support...
One of my sons therapist once told me that an jerk non supportive father is better then no father at all...at first I thought maybe hes right, after all hes a professional ...then I thought ummm....no and then I thought well, I feel the same way about a jerk non supportive therapist being better then no therapist at all....NOT!...we changed therapist. Not that I wanted to be right but because he obviously did not understand the emotional abuse he was putting my son through.
thanks for the support...
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His beast is alcoholism, yours is codependency. For so long I stayed with a nasty, hurtful person, not realizing what I was doing to myself by staying in the relationship. I hope you find Alanon, where real healing can being.
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