Tuffgirl

WTBH - I still think there is an angle you are not seeing. He's a master manipulator, but he's not omnipotent. He has a weakness. Find it and use it to your advantage.

P.S. there is no reason why you can't have a witness with you to validate interactions with him. Sure, probably not each time, but certainly some of the time. And be inconsistent enough that he won't know when to expect it.

Oh, and read this: How to Manipulate People

LexieCat

I know your resources are limited, but what you really need is an expert on domestic violence and parenting. Lundy Bancroft, who wrote "Why Does He DO That?" has written a book for legal professionals called, "The Batterer As Parent," which describes all the things that abusive men do that are along the lines of what you are experiencing.

I would suggest contacting your local domestic violence agency and talking to them. It could be that they know of someone who would be able to take your case for a reduced fee--maybe a therapist who treats batterers in a batterer's intervention program, or someone else well-trained and experienced in the field.

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.

wanttobehealthy

I wish I knew what the angle was I am missing... God do I. What could it be?

I have exhausted myself researching my options for help. There's a dom violence lawyer referral source through the dom violence hotline but they won't even put you in touch with the agency if you don't qualify financially. On paper bc I make around $40k it looks like I have plenty of money. I don't qualify.

I have actually emailed Lundy Bancroft directly asking for his advice/a referral to anyone he knows in my area etc... No reply.

I have read all his stuff on batterers in the court process and it almost seems like xAH has too. He's the one who wants a GAL and for us both to have psych evals bc he can and will manipulate it all and I am anxious and worn out and scared and I will come off looking like I'm less together than him.

Anything I think of it seems he is one step ahead.

The best strategy I've found (can't believe I am admitting to this) is to say NOTHING about his behavior. When I set boundaries he flips out, threatens, accuses etc... (all documented through his lawyer of course). When he thinks he is in charge and able to do whatever he wants with no repurcussions that's the only time he is reasonable to deal with. Obviously I can't live that way. I am completely terrified of him.

My family is totally completely unsupportive, my next door neighbor does not want to be involved in any of this anymore bc I think she's had enough-- any time she is of support to me xAH goes on a character assassination mission with her husband and he buys it all and then she and her H fight so she wants nothing to do with me or xAH...

I feel utterly alone and the domestic violence support in my state offers "advocates" who help with getting restraining orders and will listen when you want to talk.

Even my own lawyer doesn't get it some days...

tjp613

(((WTBH))) I wish I knew what to say. I am so sorry.

Santa

wanttobehealthy, does your lawyer have no suggestions to help counteract or at least manage these terrorizing tactics and lies? I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes...but I think your lawyer shouldn't be sitting there letting you wrack your brain as to what you can possibly do?

Bluegalangal

I know you said no taping law but what is he doing with the photos he takes, sending them to you in a text or email? Does his email or text have a time stamp?

Can you take a photo of the girls at the drop off spot at the drop off time and email it to yourself? Then take one five minutes later, and five minutes after that? Then it doesn't matter how many pictures he sends, you have documented proof he wasn't there when he said he was.

Also, ****{hugs}}} this sounds like a freaking nightmare.

wanttobehealthy

My lawyer has been giving me advice I already figured out. Keep my cool, document, talk of nothing but the kids when I talk to xah & leave a paper trail (texts & emails) showing my requests to mediate, to put the girls needs first, etc.

No emotions, nothing he can "use"

I think my lack of reaction to his crap is precisely the reason for his ever increasing lies/accusations & emotional dysregulation

He's not getting the response he wants from me so he ups the ante.

I'm sure I am missing responding to somethings that were asked. I am battling the stomach flu as are both my girls so we are all headed to bed!

stella27

The truth will bear itself out, wtb. It just will. It seems like an interminable process, but his ugly facts will show up. He can't sustain this forever, but YOU can sustain reasonable forever. In fact, when you practice it, you will just get better at it.

I bet it's going better than you think.

Florence

This is my experience. I think the key is understanding what he's doing, that it's part of a method of madness, and that you don't have to engage it. That doesn't mean it isn't totally exhausting and frustrating, but you don't have to engage it.

He can't sustain this facade with everyone, indefinitely. My ex, which I've told you about before, has his enablers and believers. But a lot of people see him for what he is and act accordingly.

The courts? They can't punish someone for being an *******. Assholes still have rights and everything, and as long as they stay on *this side* of the law, their hands are tied. If your AH EVER BREAKS THE LAW, call the police and let the chips fall where they may. This was also my experience with my ex, and over time he exhausted all goodwill from the courts, the police, and his enabling lawyer. It took a few years.

Tuffgirl

Keep your chin up, WTBH. Your girls need you.

He strikes me as a man who needs LOTS of validation and to always be right. How can you do that without jeopardizing your position?

How can you make him feel is getting his way?

How can you give in certain areas so you can take in others?

With my girls' Dad, it was money. I could get him to agree to a lot of things by reducing child support.

wanttobehealthy

He absolutely is in need of constant validation-- it's what makes me (well that and many other things) see him SO clearly as a narcissist.

Unfortunately the "things" he wants are all reputation based. Money isn't a topic we are battling over. What he wants is to have others see him as perfect-- including his kids-- I have considered talking to D7 and explaining that it's better to just not let him know if she is upset (she is vocal about telling him her feelings which is a positive side effect of therapy). When he feels that those closest to him may speak poorly of him to the public world (ie: he knows the girls have spoken about his abuse of me to their teachers and it enrages him) he goes off the deep end with anger. I wish there were a way I could tell him he's wonderful and great simply to appease him without then calling into question my credibility when I also say that he's abusive and awful.

Actually yesterday I took the approach with him of "I want to make your life easier and why don't you let me know what visitation schedule and communication schedule for you and the girls looks like and we can sort it out from there". Putting it on him to say what he wants (knowing he won't put anything in writing that he doesn't actually want to follow through with) may work better than me going through my lawyer and proposing to him what I want.

When he thinks he is calling the shots and not having to compromise or cooperate, he seems more willing to cooperate so I sent that as an email and cc'd my lawyer (I talked to my lawyer first about it) and thus far haven't heard back.

I am trying to figure out how to kill him with apparent kindness while still very much protecting my own interests. I feel guilty faking it almost as if I am being as deceitful as he is but I guess when it comes to self preservation and the girls well being, anything goes....

Tuffgirl

Excellent move on your part!

Now, don't allow yourself to feel "guilty" about not living up to your own personal ethics. This is divorce. It isn't fair, its war.

Ok, so what can you do next? If his reputation is so important to him, what can you do to uphold this while still getting what you need? Divorce is inevitable, but how can you come out of this making him think he is worthy of so much more than you can give as a wife - that the onus of the divorce really falls on you (in his mind).

It may be that you can play that card, knowing full well inside that it is total BS and he is a narcissistic alcoholic, but if you give him enough rope he will eventually hang himself. They always do.

But WTBH, you have to give up wanting to be right or get your own validation. You have to stand strong, lie through your teeth, smile sweetly while your head is exploding with rage, and agree to stuff you know is not true. Can you be that strong? Can you find faith in knowing what comes around goes around?

akalacha

Sorry I have no advice to offer. Just want to say that although it's terrible you are still dealing with all this, it's nice to see you back here, I'm glad that you posted. Sending hugs, support, and wishes for a good solution to this problem.

wanttobehealthy

I totally hear you about having to not care about being right & trust me I don't need to be right in the least anymore. Been there and lost my sanity trying. I've lost friends and family support bc they've opted to believe xAH over what they know me to be. And my reaction? Cant control what they think and pity that theyre being had by xAH. No more defending myself EXCEPT to the court. I am walking the fine line between not wanting to do any JADE stuff w the GAL but w a GAL involved I do need to present facts and not expect others to just inherently know I'm sane/a good mom etc.

What I find challenging is it's not enough for e narcissist to have people think he's great- but he has to tear me down too. And seeing me not be in hysterics over his destruction of friends & family relationships, he has turned all his attn to the smear campaign w court. And hes textbook narcissism so he's good at it and I am scared.

The only friends I have left which Im ok with are 2 single moms who divorced their own addict abusers and know exactly what I'm experiencing. They're a godsend bc I don't have to explain a thing and they have been through the court wringer just as I am and they've made it out okay.

Florence

Narcissists (and addicts) are most effective with people who have weak or poor boundaries. Family court people usually have good boundaries. Just keep working on your ability to exercise good emotional boundaries for yourself. His attacks will have less impact over time.

This is definitely a good tactic with a narcissist. In my experience, he usually doesn't know what he wants, he just doesn't want you to have anything he doesn't. Usually when I ask him to specify what he wants and needs, exactly, I get radio silence. And then I roll with that silence. Ha.

I can tell you that while we have been apart for 13 years, I have spent a lot of time in therapist's offices explaining my side, defending the use of the term "narcissist" and waiting while they go through the motions of finding it out themselves. Finally, a couple of years ago, we ended up in therapy with another therapist who challenged me on the facts, and I told her outright: "Look, I just gave you a pattern of examples for emotional abuse and exploitation of me, our son, and his new family. If you don't believe me, ask him yourself." She did in the next session, and he blew up in her face, demanded that she define the term "exploit," decided that she was abusive, that I was abusive, that he was a victim of our alienation, withdrew permission for counseling for our son, and sent me a series of angry emails blaming me for anything and everything. The counselor was later apologetic, and said she'd rarely seen anything like it before. I asked her to write a letter for the next therapist about her experience with the ex, and she did. It saved me some trouble.

Another anecdote: My ex is court-ordered to pay for guitar lessons for DS13. He goes in every month and is really awful to the people that own the guitar shop, complains about the costs, makes them communicate information to me for him, etc. They call him "the little prince" and are always making jokes about how awful he is. Last night the shop owner was remarking about some interaction they'd just had, and she told me, "He's one of those guys that only looks human."